When it rains it pours

[Eighty_nine]

 

 

What do you mean? No where to go? We need to spend more time together. I'm not saying, "right now, ring or it's over".

Yeah, I'm very traditional. So is my family. I want the ring, marriage, family unit, and traditional things.

 

 

My family is traditional BTW, parents still married, Catholic, all that. I'm just not, and I encourage people to consider other ways of doing things. Not that I'm against marriage! Maybe my partner and I will get married someday. But I don't think that it equals happiness, or even commitment-- the divorce rate reflects that, in my opinion. I see you are not wiling to budge here, I'm just sharing a different perspective. I think sharing a life with someone is the true value of relationships; marriage, money, material things aside.

 

Another thing, I think it's unreasonable to ask him to move there when he has children and you don't, yet.

 

But I meant that I don't see how you will progress; I got the feeling that you don't want to waste a lot of time. You don't want another 6 months of visits, or to wait around for if and when he's ready to propose. And you say you want to back off in light of these issues; how can you move toward a proposal if you pull away to protect yourself? It just seems you're at an impasse to me. How long are you willing to give things?

[venusishername]

So he agreed he needs to come to you next and then says this?

Did he work the whole time aside from evenings when you visited him then?

I got the impression he had free time when you were there.

Why would he now not have free time at all?

Because he is a contractor and he makes his own schedule if he has independent work. If he gets a contract, or has a job that requires more time, like he is now, he doesn't have much free time. I haven't talked to him about this yet. He told me a couple days ago he had this job coming up this week.

He has told me repeatedly that he will be coming here as soon as possible. Today he told me that he has got some work going on and can't make definite plans right now due to that.

 

And I also see why it's not clear whether he is distancing himself or if he is truly concerned with how to put together another trip.

 

You know him - what do you think he is trying to do?

 

Memorial Day is coming up. Would that be a possible travel weekend for him? I'm not sure whether both of you work traditional M-F jobs or not.

 

Also, is it possible he doesn't have the money for a trip right now? He just spent money to get the car out of impound and probably shelled out a bit on your visit there.

 

It would be really great if you guys could talk about stuff, Venus. I get the sense that, outside of declarations of love/longing, you two don't share your vulnerabilities easily. Maybe it is too soon for that. But I wonder if he perceives the same sense of you putting your foot down that we do.

Yeah, my stomach has been in knots all day. I haven't heard anything more from him since his text this morning. I feel like he is distancing a little after our talk yesterday.

 

I'm going to lay low and let him initiate. I feel like I've been putting some pressure on things, and I really hope he's not running away. His message was noncommittal, although when he said he was thinking about our relationship (after our conversation yesterday), he knows that we need to focus on spending more time together. That's positive, but he's not making the moves to do it right now, and is saying that he can't make definite plans. That's limbo.

 

I work a traditional 9-5 job, with Memorial Day off. He does not. He's a contractor and also union worker. So he works long hours on short or long projects, or works short hours on short projects. It varies.

 

But I meant that I don't see how you will progress; I got the feeling that you don't want to waste a lot of time. You don't want another 6 months of visits, or to wait around for if and when he's ready to propose. And you say you want to back off in light of these issues; how can you move toward a proposal if you pull away to protect yourself? It just seems you're at an impasse to me. How long are you willing to give things?

I am open to another 6 months of visits. The ball is in his court now. I'm waiting to even talk to him again. I feel like ****.

[lana-banana]

I wouldn't twist myself in knots overanalyzing that message. I find that text messages, especially from men, are rarely as deep and nuanced as we think they are. That being said, I don't like how he won't even propose a date for a future visit. I understand you don't have that luxury, but these are the kind of talks you really need to have in person. The longer you go without seeing each other the more these hurt feelings will fester.

 

One valuable aspect of your relationship is his consistency. You've never had reason to doubt anything he says or does. I don't know exactly what his words and actions are saying right now, but you'll find out soon enough.

[venusishername]

I think combined with the lack of communication (or lack of frequency) over the past 24 hours, add in the limbo of not knowing when we will see each other again, the recent texts from that person, and my feelings of loneliness and vulnerability...

it's hard for me not to be in knots.

Sometimes I find I just want to run away instead of face these things. I don't want to get hurt. I don't want time to slip away from me. I don't want to waste valuable time on the wrong person.

[sc0316]

I assume your bf's working a lot lately is a positive thing, as this means he may be able to afford another trip to see you soon?

[Eighty_nine]

Because he is a contractor and he makes his own schedule if he has independent work. If he gets a contract, or has a job that requires more time, like he is now, he doesn't have much free time. I haven't talked to him about this yet. He told me a couple days ago he had this job coming up this week.

He has told me repeatedly that he will be coming here as soon as possible. Today he told me that he has got some work going on and can't make definite plans right now due to that.

 

 

Yeah, my stomach has been in knots all day. I haven't heard anything more from him since his text this morning. I feel like he is distancing a little after our talk yesterday.

 

I'm going to lay low and let him initiate. I feel like I've been putting some pressure on things, and I really hope he's not running away. His message was noncommittal, although when he said he was thinking about our relationship (after our conversation yesterday), he knows that we need to focus on spending more time together. That's positive, but he's not making the moves to do it right now, and is saying that he can't make definite plans. That's limbo.

 

I work a traditional 9-5 job, with Memorial Day off. He does not. He's a contractor and also union worker. So he works long hours on short or long projects, or works short hours on short projects. It varies.

 

 

I am open to another 6 months of visits. The ball is in his court now. I'm waiting to even talk to him again. I feel like ****.

 

I'm sorry you're feeling sh*tty. His last message was quite ambiguous. Seemed positive, but with no conclusion (I'll try to visit in _____ ). Maybe he is being distant because he doesn't know what he can do to make things better.

[No_Go]

Hey, you're NOT wasting time - you're gaining life experience. This being said from a person who is fighting with time day and night:) Your relationship, if anything, is fast-paced for a LDR. Anything faster than that would be very suspicious/red flag.

 

Don't over analyze a few hours with less texts (plus he said he's busy). Taking more jobs is actually what he IS doing to accelerate the relationship: more money, more visits, right?

 

I think combined with the lack of communication (or lack of frequency) over the past 24 hours, add in the limbo of not knowing when we will see each other again, the recent texts from that person, and my feelings of loneliness and vulnerability...

it's hard for me not to be in knots.

Sometimes I find I just want to run away instead of face these things. I don't want to get hurt. I don't want time to slip away from me. I don't want to waste valuable time on the wrong person.

[Els]

Unfortunately, a lot of men try to get away with it. Hell, it's happened to me. I can't say I blame the guy for asking, because I'm sure many women wouldn't feel as adamantly as I do about it, and would move in with him out of fear of losing him or something, like I used to do.

 

I think you're extrapolating your feelings a bit to other women, honestly. In many cases, it is the woman who suggests living together first, and/or the woman who wants to marry at a later date (or not at all). Not all women are 'cornered' into it as you suggest. You are certainly entitled to your own preferences, but it may help you if you understand that this is a personal preference, not a black-and-white thing.

 

Oh and by the way.. hopefully this will clear up the confusion... I am actually quoting directly here:

ME: "IF I were to move there, I would get my own place. I'm not moving in with you as a trial run.

HIM: I know. That's why I need to have your father's permission to have you. ( I realize this doesn't make a lot of sense, but I know what he meant.)

 

This seems fairly clear to me if you are both the traditional sort, he has to ask your father's permission before proposing to you. I know some very traditional Rs that worked that way.

 

While I totally see the rationality and practicality of moving to the same city so that we CAN get to know each other more...I would be giving up a good job, a great place to live, my family, friends... all for a risk. All for a guy that needs more time to be sure he wants to actually commit. All out of fear of losing him and out of desire for the instant gratification.

 

I'm done being a girlfriend. I'm ready to be a wife. I realize that you can't be a wife without being a girlfriend first. So I need to slow down and take some time. However, I'm not going to move there and waste time. I realize I'm still young enough, but I DON'T HAVE TIME TO WASTE. I guess the real point is that I don't want to.

 

I'm not going to move across the country and get my own place so that I can get to know him better, and hope that in 6 months from then, that we will be engaged and living together. That's banking on too much. That would be giving up too much that I have here. I'd also be chasing him in effect. I'd be making it too easy.

 

IMO this is a bit of a catch 22. Most people aren't ready to marry after 6 months, let alone 6 months of long distance. In this case why were you even giving this R a chance? If time is truly that crucial to you, it's probably a good idea to only date local.

 

I mean, I think this dude has quite a few red flags IMO (asking his friends for money to pay a fine?? WTF), but the above is the real crux of the issue, is it not?

[sc0316]

OP, since you mentioned your bf's kids are adults, I was wondering if they still go to school/college or if they are working now. And do they still live home and need support financially from their dad?

[introverted1]

Venus, why can't you just pick a time to talk on the phone (or over Skype) and lay out your concerns/fears and let him do the same?

 

I mean, I would get it if you said 6 months is too soon for that, but you've already said that you guys have discussed marriage and babies and that you even don't use birth control because you are both in agreement that "que sera, sera." I have a very difficult time reconciling the apparent intimacy with the also apparent reluctance (or inability) to discuss meaningful issues. How do you go from babies to worrying about him fading away?

 

It's kind of like you two are cocooned in some sort of fantasy world together and neither of you wants to talk about real life for fear of dismantling it. I can't help but think that this is not healthy.

[lana-banana]

What did he say today, Venus? I've been worrying. I would be pretty angry if my boyfriend said he'd been thinking about our relationship and then went silent. Hopefully he reached out to you after a couple hours.

[venusishername]

OP, since you mentioned your bf's kids are adults, I was wondering if they still go to school/college or if they are working now. And do they still live home and need support financially from their dad?

 

They are both in college. One now lives with him. I don't know all the details of his financial situation with the kids. But he no longer is obligated to pay child support, because they're over 18.

 

Venus, why can't you just pick a time to talk on the phone (or over Skype) and lay out your concerns/fears and let him do the same?

 

I mean, I would get it if you said 6 months is too soon for that, but you've already said that you guys have discussed marriage and babies and that you even don't use birth control because you are both in agreement that "que sera, sera." I have a very difficult time reconciling the apparent intimacy with the also apparent reluctance (or inability) to discuss meaningful issues. How do you go from babies to worrying about him fading away?

 

It's kind of like you two are cocooned in some sort of fantasy world together and neither of you wants to talk about real life for fear of dismantling it. I can't help but think that this is not healthy.

Well, actually, we do that often. He called yesterday afternoon, actually. And we had a good talk last night.

I'll write more later.

[venusishername]

I'm so glad all that anxiety is over. I really needed to get out of my head.

He had called me yesterday in the early evening and I actually missed the call. He had made a cute comment on my FB post, so I knew things were ok and we just needed to talk.

When we finally connected later, we had a good talk. I'm so glad we did.

I was really pressing him with the texts the day before, about how I felt about the moving in together thing, how I would get my own place, etc. I told him last night I thought it would be best if I back off for a little bit, as an explanation for not talking to him the night prior. He was the one that said he's been busy and that he missed talking to me the night before. !

Here I was, worried that I pushed him away and that's why we didn't talk.

 

 

He said he can tell that I'm getting anxious and upset about these things. I admitted I think I'm holding on to some bad feelings from my last relationship(s). I told him I really regret some of the decisions I made, and I just don't want to put myself in that position again, or feel that way again. How I've been hurting lately. How the long distance makes it hard to feel connected to the day to day things with him. How I'm trying to bridge the distance, try and figure out a way that we can live in the same city, how it's hard for me sometimes. How I feel lonely a lot. How I don't want to get hurt again. How I'm trying to protect myself. How some things have come up recently that make me insecure, or feel vulnerable, or bring back feelings of my past. Or fears that I don't want to come true again.

He was surprisingly very understanding. He said he can tell that I am holding on to some things that hurt me before. That although I was pressing him, he is happy to see that I am so honest, that I stand up for myself. He knows I'm doing it from a place of love, and not to push him away or be mean or demanding. He said he respects me more that I am a strong woman and he wants me to communicate these things. (!)

I have to say, this man has always validated my feelings. That is really special, and to be honest, I am not used to that in the serious relationships that I've had. He is so very caring and understanding.

I could tell he was wiped out, but he listened, told me we were in this together, how much I've made him want to be a better man, how it's hard for him too sometimes to be apart, but we have something special and we've kept this going. How he feels we need to spend more time together, and he's working on getting out here as soon as possible, because he knows that's what we need.

I said that I was happy things are picking back up for him. He says he has a lot of work happening right now and the money is good, so he's working on being with me as soon as he can. That takes money.

I said I understand, and I do. I was a little uneasy that we don't have an actual date set, but I told myself to just chill out and not press him about anything anymore. It was late when we said goodnight, but I felt so much better after that conversation.

 

 

I woke up this morning to find a really sweet text from him. He said that he's still in love with me just as much, please don't worry so much. That he's just checking on me and was thinking about we've been under some stress and about our talk last night. How he doesn't want me to worry.

 

 

So, no stress today.

He called after work and he started talking about how he's going to have to get out here really soon because he can't wait too long. How maybe he can come to CA, we can elope, then we can go to his family event together, then in six months when my lease is up, I can move in with him because I'll have what I'm asking for and I won't need to ask him again.

I said no, no, I don't want you to feel that I am pressuring or asking for that. I was wrong to press so much about the future. I was just trying to figure out a way that we can be in the same city, because this long distance really gets to me lately. I don't want you to do that because you're trying to appease me, I want you to do it because you want to. And he said he would be doing it because he wants to, he doesn't want to wait that long. He wants to be together.

 

 

He said it with a little laugh behind it... in a half-joking manner. But he's been talking about eloping even before the other day. I guess we are thinking about it. I realize that me trying to control the future or plan it out or have these rigid timelines is bad news. It's just stemming from my regrets and fears and past hurts. I don't want to spend my valuable time on another man who doesn't ever intend on actually making a future with me. But over the past week, since my nerves have been high and my feelings of loneliness, sadness and insecurities of being duped have kicked in, I've been really making things terrible for myself.

 

 

I realized just today that I really am still carrying a lot of hurt from my past. I still have a broken heart, and I told him that.

When we first started dating he said when he found out I was single that night we met, he was so surprised as to how that could be possible, a beautiful girl like me, and so nice too, he realized that I must of had my heart broken. It seems like he's been setting out to fix it.

 

 

Sometimes in this new relationship I don't know how to act, and I'm learning how to be in one again. It's been so long! And my last one was so ****ed up and it really hurt me badly. Now all these similar feelings or events that are coming up in my new relationship, it tests me. I have to learn to let the hurt go. Although it's perfectly acceptable to be cautious and not oblivious and stupid, I've been putting up lots of walls where there doesn't need to be any. I guess over time I'm learning to trust... sometimes it's really challenging. Sometimes I feel jealousy or insecurity, or fear that I'm going to be taken advantage of, or deceived, betrayed, disrespected. That's why I've been so critical and been trying to exert this 'control' over this timeline I have.

 

 

In all honesty, I'm not going to bail out if he doesn't propose in a couple months. That's silly. Actually that's stupid. But I do know that I'm not going to date him for years or move in with him before we're engaged. or married.

 

 

I told him after our talk today that I appreciate how caring and attentive he is. How I still have a broken heart, I realize, but that he has been doing a good job to make it better. He said the same about himself, and how I have and am helping him feel stronger too. It's a little corny, but we both are coming from a similar place, both been hurt, and we recognize that we are strengthening each other and helping to believe in love again, and to be brave enough to take risks.

 

 

So I decided to not talk about moving, plans for the end of my lease, moving to New Orleans and getting my own place, asking him about moving in together, or even worrying about it like I have been (here's the thoughts that have been running through my head :"where am I going to put all my shoes and clothes? I can't cook in that kitchen, he's going to have to extend that island.." ).

I'm going to go about my life as though I was doing before. I'm going to plan on renewing my lease in October, and stay at my job, and continon with my life. Maybe something will change in the meantime, or not. I know all I can depend on is myself. And so I'm not going to think about going to him, or moving into my own place there, etc.

The most important next step is him making the time to get out here. I am pretty confident he won't want to wait too long. So although I don't have a firm date, based on our conversation today, the romance has actually been reignited somehow despite that tension that's been between us over the past week or two. Now there's the romantic longing again. Maybe it's when we are vulnerable that we end up closer.

 

 

As a final note, although he has some issues, although there are things that I don't really like a whole lot, personality traits or quirks, or some habits or tendencies... I'm beginning to think that those things may be something I can be flexible on. Not necessarily TOLERATING but being understanding and working together to improve, etc.

He doesn't check off all the boxes on my dream man list. But he has far too many of the truly important qualities and values that I never knew I wanted but would never want to live without. His consistency and attentiveness is beyond any other man I have ever been with. He is adoring and caring, and I find that sometimes he sees things in me more than I see them in myself. He makes me want to be the best version of myself. He builds me up and validates my feelings.

He has his faults, but he is a really good man and I do respect him.

 

 

So I've resolved to only focus on our next visit (when he makes it happen) and not look or plan beyond that. I was the one who told him today that we just need to keep taking time.

I'm not saying I'm not going to have my moments of feeling insecure or anxious, or feeling sad and lonely that I can't be with him but other people can. I'll still feel jealous sometimes. I'll still fear that I'm wasting time on someone across the country that is sneaking behind my back with other women because I'll never know because I'm so far away. (Yes, I have thought that before). It happened to me before. It's another fear. I'll be back on here ranting when that comes up, don't worry.

 

But for today, feeling like I took a big load off my shoulders. Good night.

Edited May 5, 2016 by venusishername

[lana-banana]

So the moral of the story is you don't need to worry about his financial stability or your actual compatibility because he plans to propose before you find that out? I don't see anywhere in that long post where you address the issues that triggered this flap in the first place, just lots of longing and loneliness and so forth, and how a couple hints at a proposal from him were enough to "reignite" the "romance". I'm beginning to think introverted1's assessment of your relationship is spot-on.

Edited May 5, 2016 by lana-banana

[venusishername]

So the moral of the story is you don't need to worry about his financial stability or your actual compatibility because he plans to propose before you find that out? I don't see anywhere in that long post where you address the issues that triggered this flap in the first place, just lots of longing and loneliness and so forth, and how a couple hints at a proposal from him were enough to "reignite" the "romance". I'm beginning to think introverted1's assessment of your relationship is spot-on.

 

Well, ok. Are you trying to say that the relationship is superficial? I guess most LDR have more fantasy and longing than traditional relationships. But I think he and I have definitely delved into some deep stuff! Longing and fantasy are not the basis for our relationship. If that was the case, it would fizzle out. I really don't think it would have sustained this long if it was superficial.

 

The moral of the story (for me anyway) is that I am taking the pressure of the idea of moving to the same city, moving in together, and accelerating and rushing the relationship in general. I'm removing the stress and the pressure of trying to plan ahead and worry so much about engagement, living together, all those things. The most important thing is for us to get to know each other and mainly, to spend more time together!!!

I'm not saying at all that I don't need to "worry" about the financial stability or compatibility. In fact, that is all in the works. It's pending. We ARE learning and have been learning about our actual compatibility over the past 6.5 months.

 

The issues that triggered this are still concerns, but it's really just a matter of time spent right? I think it is. As far as I'm concerned there are many unanswered questions that can only be answered by time. That's what needs to happen. What more can I do about it? How much am I supposed to worry about things out of my control? Am I missing something here?

 

As far as his hints towards a proposal and eloping, of course that makes me feel giddy and happy. But I know the most important thing is just easing into this and focusing on the now and our next visit.

[lana-banana]

Well, ok. Are you trying to say that the relationship is superficial? I guess most LDR have more fantasy and longing than traditional relationships. But I think he and I have definitely delved into some deep stuff! Longing and fantasy are not the basis for our relationship. If that was the case, it would fizzle out. I really don't think it would have sustained this long if it was superficial.

 

Part of me thinks it's lasted this long because it's superficial; the relationship exists entirely in the realm of longing, romance and wish fulfillment. There's no bickering or getting annoyed at dumb inconveniences don't have any of the day-to-day irritations that make conventional relationships such hard work. The few times you have seen glimpses of his irresponsibility and recklessness it's driven you crazy, but you haven't dealt with it for a sustained period of time. He is long gone before you have a chance to get sick of him.

 

The moral of the story (for me anyway) is that I am taking the pressure of the idea of moving to the same city, moving in together, and accelerating and rushing the relationship in general. I'm removing the stress and the pressure of trying to plan ahead and worry so much about engagement, living together, all those things. The most important thing is for us to get to know each other and mainly, to spend more time together!!!

 

The only reason you're saying this is because he said he intended to propose. If he hadn't said that you would be a nervous wreck, agonizing about how he wasn't serious and didn't want to commit and what if you were wasting your time?!?!?! But now that he's said he's extremely serious about you, none of that matters. All the moving, rushing, etc was just because you were still insecure that he didn't want to commit, but now that he's said he plans to propose eventually you feel just fine.

 

I want to reiterate I don't think this guy is actively manipulating you. I believe he cares about you very much. But he's also not a complete idiot, and he knows that as soon as he brings up marriage you back off. I don't like that he still won't even give you an approximate date about when he can see you next---not even "sometime at the end of May" or "the second week of June". How long is it going to be? A month? Two? Doesn't it bother you that he doesn't have enough saved up to afford a plane ticket or even know when he'll be able to afford one? I would worry about this a lot.

 

I'm not saying at all that I don't need to "worry" about the financial stability or compatibility. In fact, that is all in the works. It's pending. We ARE learning and have been learning about our actual compatibility over the past 6.5 months.

 

This by itself is no problem. Hell, it's great! The fact that you're saying this while simultaneously saying you guys also plan to get engaged soon is an enormous red flag.

 

The issues that triggered this are still concerns, but it's really just a matter of time spent right? I think it is. As far as I'm concerned there are many unanswered questions that can only be answered by time. That's what needs to happen. What more can I do about it? How much am I supposed to worry about things out of my control? Am I missing something here?

 

He has what, two or three more visits before he asks you to marry him? How many days have you actually spent with this guy? Do you think you're ready to marry someone after less than a full month spent in each other's company? The "only a matter of time" thing doesn't mean much when you've already put a timer on things and that timer is running pretty short.

 

As for what you could do? You could have serious conversations about financial responsibilities (and other similar topics: job, travel, life expectations) like mature adults. In the past you've said that you don't have time, you're not dating, you couldn't possibly ask something like that, but now he's indicated he's seriously intended to propose. Your finances are every bit each other's business.

 

Or you could just keep shrugging your shoulders and saying "I need more time!" because that's easier than confronting hard realities.

 

Venus, I know I tend to be a pessimist, but the guy didn't have enough cash or credit to pay a relatively small fine. That's not financially lacking, that's flat-out broke. I really wish you'd look into this.

Edited May 5, 2016 by lana-banana

[Imajerk17]

Venus, why can't you just pick a time to talk on the phone (or over Skype) and lay out your concerns/fears and let him do the same?

 

I mean, I would get it if you said 6 months is too soon for that, but you've already said that you guys have discussed marriage and babies and that you even don't use birth control because you are both in agreement that "que sera, sera." I have a very difficult time reconciling the apparent intimacy with the also apparent reluctance (or inability) to discuss meaningful issues. How do you go from babies to worrying about him fading away?

 

It's kind of like you two are cocooned in some sort of fantasy world together and neither of you wants to talk about real life for fear of dismantling it. I can't help but think that this is not healthy.

 

You don't use birth control venus? Seriously? If that is true, that is extremely irresponsible on you and your boyfriend's part. All this stuff not figured out including having enough money to start a family and you are careless about bringing a baby into this. I can't believe you're being so selfish. Or maybe shortsighted is a better term.

Edited May 5, 2016 by Imajerk17

[introverted1]

You don't use birth control venus? Seriously? If that is true, that is extremely irresponsible on you and your boyfriend's part. All this stuff not figured out including having enough money to start a family and you are careless about bringing a baby into this. I can't believe you're being so selfish. Or maybe shortsighted is a better term.

 

Maybe it has changed but earlier, Venus wrote:

 

I don't really follow the 'fetish' idea... but I just meant I got the impression he likes the idea of me being pregnant. ! Wouldn't be so far fetched for a red blooded man to want to have babies with a woman he's in love with, right?! On that note...

 

The last time we were together I was using the pill, but I decided (and discussed with him) that I would rather not take it continuously if we weren't having regular sex. I am against IUDs... I've known a handful of women who have had bad side effects and tearing, scarring, etc. from IUDs. I prefer the pill if I'm going to use birth control at all.

Pulling out and the rhythm method are effective for most people that I know. It's not as safe as condoms or the pill, but it is a good alternative.

Let's just say I'm not going to get on the pill again until we are having sex on a regular basis (meaning more than every 4-6 weeks).[/b]

[Eighty_nine]

What bothers me though Venus (and others, I think) is how you regularly flip flop. You're honest about his actions and your feelings about them, lucid and straight forward in one post, then when people respond appropriately, you defend all of the things that bothered you a few posts back; as if you can't acknowledge your own feelings about them. Sometimes you sound totally into the romance of it all, not interested in practicalities. And frankly, if that's really how you felt... Good for you! I don't exactly think there's anything 'wrong' with that. Or if you were really pragmatic about it all and had a clear timeline or plan or rejected this relationship because you can't be a SAHM, etc., then I'd respect that perspective. But you are REALLY back and forth. It almost seems like you don't notice how back and forth you are, either.

Edited May 7, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[venusishername]

Part of me thinks it's lasted this long because it's superficial; the relationship exists entirely in the realm of longing, romance and wish fulfillment. There's no bickering or getting annoyed at dumb inconveniences don't have any of the day-to-day irritations that make conventional relationships such hard work. The few times you have seen glimpses of his irresponsibility and recklessness it's driven you crazy, but you haven't dealt with it for a sustained period of time. He is long gone before you have a chance to get sick of him.

 

 

The only reason you're saying this is because he said he intended to propose. If he hadn't said that you would be a nervous wreck, agonizing about how he wasn't serious and didn't want to commit and what if you were wasting your time?!?!?! But now that he's said he's extremely serious about you, none of that matters. All the moving, rushing, etc was just because you were still insecure that he didn't want to commit, but now that he's said he plans to propose eventually you feel just fine.

 

I want to reiterate I don't think this guy is actively manipulating you. I believe he cares about you very much. But he's also not a complete idiot, and he knows that as soon as he brings up marriage you back off. I don't like that he still won't even give you an approximate date about when he can see you next---not even "sometime at the end of May" or "the second week of June". How long is it going to be? A month? Two? Doesn't it bother you that he doesn't have enough saved up to afford a plane ticket or even know when he'll be able to afford one? I would worry about this a lot.

 

 

He has what, two or three more visits before he asks you to marry him? How many days have you actually spent with this guy? Do you think you're ready to marry someone after less than a full month spent in each other's company? The "only a matter of time" thing doesn't mean much when you've already put a timer on things and that timer is running pretty short.

 

As for what you could do? You could have serious conversations about financial responsibilities (and other similar topics: job, travel, life expectations) like mature adults. In the past you've said that you don't have time, you're not dating, you couldn't possibly ask something like that, but now he's indicated he's seriously intended to propose. Your finances are every bit each other's business.

 

Or you could just keep shrugging your shoulders and saying "I need more time!" because that's easier than confronting hard realities.

 

Venus, I know I tend to be a pessimist, but the guy didn't have enough cash or credit to pay a relatively small fine. That's not financially lacking, that's flat-out broke. I really wish you'd look into this.

 

You may be right, Lana, or not. I feel like the distance is really hindering us taking things to the next step/level/depth. So it's hard to have those conversations when I feel so disconnected from the day to day relationship. You know what I mean?

 

I don't know when or if he'll propose, ok? I don't know if he's seriously going to do it in "two to three more visits". We've just been talking about it.

Look, this whole situation is not ideal. We have an unconventional relationship that started out as long distance. I'm surprised it's lasted this long, but I think it's because we deeply care for each other and we want to make it work.

Maybe he was broke at the time about the towing. I really don't know the details. Maybe he was short on cash and had to get his car out of tow right away and his friend had some cash on hand. Should I dump him for that?

And I was sure that I did mention this the other day... he's been talking about coming here in June. It's not definite yet. It may be sooner, he said. He's been busy with work lately so it's difficult to book a time yet.

 

And by the way... I realize that many of us are not in the same financial bracket, clearly. A $400+ ticket plus money on dinners, gifts, etc. is not easy for a lot of us. Including me. So to say that it's bothersome that he can't afford to spend that kind of money so easily is frankly, kind of rude. I can't afford to spend over $500 without batting an eye. Especially considering that I was just there and he paid for most of my ticket and spent quite a bit on me while I was there a couple weeks ago. It might take a month or more for me and most people I know in my financial realm to spend this kind of money so freely. So no, it doesn't bother me that he can't throw down hundreds of dollars without a little time to save and plan. I would be the same. I wouldn't spend money on plane ticket for another month or more because I spent some money on the trip too.

You don't use birth control venus? Seriously? If that is true, that is extremely irresponsible on you and your boyfriend's part. All this stuff not figured out including having enough money to start a family and you are careless about bringing a baby into this. I can't believe you're being so selfish. Or maybe shortsighted is a better term.

Yes. Seriously. For one thing, we don't have sex very often. So we have used condoms and pulling out method. If we were actually living in the same city, and having sex regularly, I think that would change. I told him I don't like the idea of taking the pill if we aren't having regular sex. Also, I don't want to take the pill anymore anyway. I realize we all have different views on birth control, and I don't want to get into it quite honestly. At my age, this is kind of my window to have children, so if it happens, this is the time. I didn't take the opportunity when it came up before to have a child. I would like to have a child in my childbearing years. At 32, I don't want to keep pushing that off anymore. I'm open to it and so is he.

I haven't read all the updates but what from the past few posts you are dating a middle aged 40 year old man, with 2 college age children (who pays the tuition?), a previous wife he told you he longs for but that didn't want him back, a woman with a question mark that text you asking who you were (did you ask her who she was or just took his word for it?), lives in a house owned by his dad, can't afford a plane ticket probably the same price as the sushi lunch i paid for today, doesn't pay his traffic fines..gets a boot and has to borrow cash from a friend because he neither has savings nor even a credit card to pay for it and most likely doesn't even have a retirement account.

 

Wow ,Venus.. you say you're college educated, good looking, athletic, career you worked hard, and from following you for a few months can tell you have a nice personality as well.. Tell me why does this loser deserve you?

I would read the thread more thoroughly then. He has a credit card. He has a pension. He has a retirement fund. Yes I asked him who she was. And I have to take his word for it, that's how it works. What's wrong with living in a house that your family owns? If you're paying to live there and all the bills and maintenance of it?? I would do that too if I had that opportunity. My brother does that with my grandmother's place and he's not a loser.

As far as his ex wife, the fact that he didn't want to get divorced and is hurt by that isn't cause for concern to me. He has never mentioned her much. So I don't see a real issue there.

 

I get really pissed off when people tell me or imply that I should just date someone else. The long distance is too hard, just date someone in your own city. Like I have all these men throwing themselves at me! I find it hard to connect with or meet men in my own city. I don't get approached a whole lot, if I do, they don't make a move, I'm not interested, whatever the case. I don't make these connections easily. I'm certainly not beating men off with a stick. I didn't meet anyone that I dated in my own city that lasted more than a month in over 4 years. So I would say that I haven't had much luck with meeting men in my own city, or finding someone who fulfills my dream man list.

 

Last post was pretty harsh, in my opinion.

 

Some of you are saying he doesn't need a lot of money to be a responsible partner... but honestly, your posts suggest otherwise. (Like a RT plane ticket across the country costing as much as your sushi... Um, cmon)

 

What bothers me though Venus (and others, I think) is how you regularly flip flop. You're honest about his actions and your feelings about them, lucid and straight forward in one post, then when people respond appropriately, you defend all of the things that bothered you a few posts back; as if you can't acknowledge your own feelings about them. Sometimes you sound totally into the romance of it all, not interested in practicalities. And frankly, if that's really how you felt... Good for you! I don't exactly think there's anything 'wrong' with that. Or if you were really pragmatic about it all and had a clear timeline or plan or rejected this relationship because you can't be a SAHM, etc., then I'd respect that perspective. But you are REALLY back and forth. It almost seems like you don't notice how back and forth you are, either.

Thanks, Lissvarna. I don't really know what to say anymore. I guess the bottom line is I have some mixed feelings.

Edited May 6, 2016 by venusishername

[venusishername]

Thanks?

I got tired of waiting for the perfect guy. So maybe I have settled for someone who loves me and shows me respect rather than all the material things or what I thought I should 'have'.

I didn't really find that before. Even with the guys who were "Waayyyy better" on paper. They didn't have half the balls and integrity that he does.

So I've been hard pressed to find a good man in my life that wanted me and who I also wanted, and was available and vice versa. Sometimes we have to take the opportunities in front of us instead of holding out for something we don't and may never have.

Edited May 7, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[lana-banana]

You may be right, Lana, or not. I feel like the distance is really hindering us taking things to the next step/level/depth. So it's hard to have those conversations when I feel so disconnected from the day to day relationship. You know what I mean?

 

I do, actually, but if that's how you feel then you're nowhere near ready to even be thinking about marriage. How could you think about spending the rest of your life with someone you can't even talk to?

 

Maybe he was broke at the time about the towing. I really don't know the details. Maybe he was short on cash and had to get his car out of tow right away and his friend had some cash on hand. Should I dump him for that?

 

How many times are you going to repeat yourself? Either you are serious enough to be talking about marriage (and other tough personal things, like finances, health, children, and so forth) or you aren't. You can't keep swinging back and forth between "we're just dating" and "I'm planning my future around him". You can't have it both ways.

 

And should you dump him for that? Absolutely not. But it's worth finding out exactly how much he does have. That's not a very invasive question to be asking, especially when he's the one talking about how much money you'll save once you're living together.

 

And I was sure that I did mention this the other day... he's been talking about coming here in June.

 

No, you didn't. You did say that he didn't say anything specific about when he was coming. Honestly, Venus, I don't know where the truth is anymore.

 

And by the way... I realize that many of us are not in the same financial bracket, clearly. A $400+ ticket plus money on dinners, gifts, etc. is not easy for a lot of us. Including me. So to say that it's bothersome that he can't afford to spend that kind of money so easily is frankly, kind of rude. I can't afford to spend over $500 without batting an eye. Especially considering that I was just there and he paid for most of my ticket and spent quite a bit on me while I was there a couple weeks ago. It might take a month or more for me and most people I know in my financial realm to spend this kind of money so freely. So no, it doesn't bother me that he can't throw down hundreds of dollars without a little time to save and plan.

 

I never said he should be able to thrown down a couple hundred dollars at a whim. I said I would worry that he can't even plan to do that. When I need to save money for something (for instance, our Napa vacation), I set a goal and start stashing money away. I find it very worrisome that he can't even estimate how much he has available. It just smacks of basic irresponsibility, that's all.

 

I would read the thread more thoroughly then. He has a credit card. He has a pension. He has a retirement fund.

 

He has a credit card that is regularly maxed out and repeatedly declined. That doesn't give me much faith in his pension and retirement fund (do you know what the numbers are for those)? Venus, you say he's not destitute, but everything suggests he's somewhere between barely treading water and bankrupt. You inexplicably refuse to obtain the information that would allow you to know for sure---maybe because you're afraid of what the answer will be? Because asking is too hard?

 

I got tired of waiting for the perfect guy. So maybe I have settled for someone who loves me and shows me respect rather than all the material things or what I thought I should 'have'.

I didn't really find that before. Even with the guys who were "Waayyyy better" on paper. They didn't have half the balls and integrity that he does.

 

Nobody's questioning his love or commitment, just his stability, maturity and reliability. I don't think it's too being entitled to ask that your partner for life be both loving and responsible. Only a couple pages ago you were saying you "required" a partner who was financially responsible and stable. What happened to that?

[venusishername]

How many times are you going to repeat yourself? Either you are serious enough to be talking about marriage (and other tough personal things, like finances, health, children, and so forth) or you aren't. You can't keep swinging back and forth between "we're just dating" and "I'm planning my future around him". You can't have it both ways.

 

I get it. I see that I've been doing that. Something has to change here. I've been really torn and unsure, compounded by my insecurity and loneliness due to the distance.

And should you dump him for that? Absolutely not. But it's worth finding out exactly how much he does have. That's not a very invasive question to be asking, especially when he's the one talking about how much money you'll save once you're living together.

Totally fair. But I'm not ready to move in with him, as I've gone into great detail about, our only time we are actually together is vacation time, not reality time. It's been so hard to have reality time.

I am dropping the moving discussion with him for awhile after the other day. Unless he brings it up, I won't. And if he does, that would be a good time to do it. Honestly, I think it's really important that we get to the next visit first. I'm only ready for that right now, I realize.

 

 

No, you didn't. You did say that he didn't say anything specific about when he was coming. Honestly, Venus, I don't know where the truth is anymore.

 

Sorry, I did think that I had mentioned it earlier. See below.

 

I never said he should be able to thrown down a couple hundred dollars at a whim. I said I would worry that he can't even plan to do that. When I need to save money for something (for instance, our Napa vacation), I set a goal and start stashing money away. I find it very worrisome that he can't even estimate how much he has available. It just smacks of basic irresponsibility, that's all.

 

 

I agree that he's not very responsible. But to give him credit, the planning is exactly what he is and has always been doing with our visits since day one. He's planning to come visit, by making and saving money. He is waiting to book the flight NOT because he doesn't have money but because he has a lot of work going on and so it's difficult to make a concrete plan yet. Also, it costs more than the airfare to travel. He needs to have a cushion to spend and also the free time! But he's been telling me over the past few days that he's intending for mid-June, or maybe sooner. I guess I didn't update with that information the other day. It just happened over a day or so ago and I guess I wrote my friend about it in messenger, not on Loveshack. I thought I mentioned before several times that he has been talking about taking me to his cousin's wedding in early July, but that he would like to plan to get out to CA sooner than that.

 

Nobody's questioning his love or commitment, just his stability, maturity and reliability. I don't think it's too being entitled to ask that your partner for life be both loving and responsible. Only a couple pages ago you were saying you "required" a partner who was financially responsible and stable. What happened to that?

 

I know Lana. This is the core of the issue. This is the core of why I flip flop and waffle. This is a big part of the reason why I stick one toe in and then take it out, then get into the romance and happiness, then get worried. For other reasons too, as I've talked about. But yes, you have nailed it. Thank you. It's the truth.

I know that he has financial problems. I don't even know the extent of it but from what I've seen it's not good. Mind you, our standard of living and our tastes are far different from his background in Louisiana. I just found out that it is one of the highest poverty level states in the US. It's a different lifestyle than what I'm guessing you and I know, maybe many of us here posting on this thread. Money doesn't really matter a whole lot like it does to a lot of people. He never had all that. Being poor is not the issue, although of course l would have preferred a man that isn't poor. But he's humble, and that's very hard to come by in my experience. It's almost as if his humility overrides the fact that he is poor. He's a blue collar guy, with no college education other than trade school.

 

 

But all that aside, I see that he is also irresponsible, immature and reckless and impulsive in different parts of his personality and life. He's disorganized, has ADD tendencies, and hell, all the stuff I've already told you about.

I already know that I'd have to be worried about that part if I were to combine my life with him, to have his child, to marry him, to live with him. I know it would be a struggle, maybe always in the back of my mind. Maybe would cause resentment on my part. He might improve, maybe he needs someone to keep him in line and be organized. My dad used to say that he liked when he was married to my mom because she was so disciplined and consistent and responsible, where he always struggled with that. She gave him that order and discipline. I'm not sure if my bf would improve or change if I was more closely involved in those aspects of his life. How is this something I could know across the country? I'm not sure. This is why I am torn.

 

I am weighing the qualities that I think are mandatory, and those I might be willing to be flexible on. I can take care of myself, I just want my man and husband to carry his weight and be reliable to come through, and not ask to borrow money from me like my ex did. The fact that he's poor to many of the standards on LS is kind of irrelevant. When he told me how much he was offered per hour on a job I wasn't expecting that high of an amount. He can make very good money with what he does. It's not really a matter of money, I realize. It's how responsible he is with it. And I don't know all the details. I just have heard of the bad stuff that has come up.

 

I am wondering if I CAN sacrifice my requirement for financial stability for all the wonderful qualities and value that he DOES have. These are the qualities that I've never had before and don't want to walk away from so easily. I would likely regret it, because I regret walking away from great men of character who had some flaws or that I didn't find too attractive. I walked away from a couple men in my life who truly did love me and adore me. I think I would be an idiot to walk away from someone so loving, attentive, caring, respectful, and adoring as he is. He has integrity, humility, and he may be rough around the edges, but he's a gentleman. He would always have my back. He's affectionate and makes me feel good. He is romantic and goes the extra mile to be romantic. I feel safe and protected with him. I feel heard and understood. Many women have to sacrifice those things.

I realize and we have gone into detail about how no one can have it all.

 

I just wonder if I can work with the irresponsibility and immaturity.

Of course he's not always that way. But enough for me to question the relationship as a serious prospect.

 

I can't help the way I feel. It's like an tug of war. I know that these are huge red flags. I just wonder if I can live with them and make the sacrifice for the other qualities that I require and that he has. This is a tough one.

 

I guess it makes me feel better to take the pressure off and to just try and think about the next visit, and all this time in between, we are learning about each other. Only with time can I see if there's a pattern, or repeated behaviors or events, or ongoing problems. Only with time can we confront it too.

 

I'm just not sure how to direct my feelings anymore. I'm having doubts and I think that the distance is making it so much harder on me.

[Eighty_nine]

Bottom line, it's sad for me to see such a major focus on finances. That really stands out in this thread... The emphasis on money. I am responsible with money. So it's not as if I don't value that. And still I think in this thread, it's importance is being over exaggerated. To me there are bigger issues here than the money this guy has... If Venus has the means to provide for herself and protect her assets, I don't see why we have to know exactly how much he has on his credit card. I would want to know about his willingness to commit, to have assurance he's being faithful, to be vulnerable and open with each other (I don't think you're really there yet) etc etc... Those stand out as needs that are much more important.

Edited May 7, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[lana-banana]

Bottom line, it's sad for me to see such a major focus on finances. That really stands out in this thread... The emphasis on money. I am responsible with money. So it's not as if I don't value that. And still I think in this thread, it's importance is being over exaggerated. To me there are bigger issues here than the money this guy has... If Venus has the means to provide for herself and protect her assets, I don't see why we have to know exactly how much he has on his credit card. I would want to know about his willingness to commit, to have assurance he's being faithful, to be vulnerable and open with each other (I don't think you're really there yet) etc etc... Those stand out as needs that are much more important.

 

I would usually agree, except this guy has proven himself to be severely irresponsible, and Venus wouldn't be "providing for herself"; she's potentially going to be living with him, in his house, and relying on him financially at least a little while she finds a new job, and they do apparently have plans for children in the future.

 

Of course love, respect and commitment are most important. Those are fundamental. This guy has demonstrated those values, which is why I don't question them at all. But responsibility and stability matter too, and when someone maxes out their credit cards and gets their car booted repeatedly, it raises doubts about their ability to provide. The only reason we keep talking about his finances is because they are consistently a problem.