When it rains it pours

[lana-banana]

I don't agree with Leigh either. My boyfriend and I had an incredibly strong chemistry for nearly two years before we started dating, so much so that other people commented on it. Our first kiss was nothing short of explosive and we've been on a roll ever since. It's coming up on one year together...sheesh.

 

You seem to be doing pretty well, so keep on keepin' on. Forget about R. Be excited for the future. Have fun.

[Leigh 87]

I don't agree with Leigh either. My boyfriend and I had an incredibly strong chemistry for nearly two years before we started dating, so much so that other people commented on it. Our first kiss was nothing short of explosive and we've been on a roll ever since. It's coming up on one year together...sheesh.

 

You seem to be doing pretty well, so keep on keepin' on. Forget about R. Be excited for the future. Have fun.

 

That's what I want too.

 

I am saying that it's very rare to get that intense chemistry with a long term relationship.

 

I am holding out for what you have.

 

I am being realistic in saying that not many people end up finding it.

[Leigh 87]

But I don't want to believe this, Leigh. It makes no logical sense. If you have a great chemistry with someone, and you enjoy being around them and like them as a person, why the heck wouldn't you want to be involved with that person? My long term relationships began with men I had that 'passion' with from the start. Granted, neither one of them was a 'good guy' or a healthy relationship.

 

 

But I refuse to believe that the strong chemistry doesn't amount to someone not developing real feelings. I've personally experienced it and I've also witnessed it with many people I know who are in long term relationships.

 

 

It doesn't make SENSE to me that if you do have a chemistry beyond physical, like mentally, emotionally as well.. that those two people wouldn't end up together or at least pursue something.

 

 

So the fact that R and I had this crazy chemistry, not only just physically, we enjoyed being in each others' company, we got along well, we talked, the conversations were good, we had fun... I just don't get it. But I guess that's not my problem.

 

I know. But I was putting walls up and I'm ready to take them down.

 

Why? I had that for ten years straight before. Leigh, I think its ok to have a hot chemistry with someone as long as it also has substance. Hot physical chemistry doesn't mean it's superficial at all. I want a passionate (healthy) love. I won't settle for less. If that's keeping me single for four years and counting, I think that's ok. Maybe I'm just stubborn. But I want someone who I feel butterflies and a draw with, physically and on all levels.

 

 

 

I know what you mean; I've gotten to the point where it's starting to roll off my shoulder. I still get disappointed and well, pissed, but I find it easier to (try and) not give a damn! I think that comes along with being more secure in yourself, not that it is being cynical.

 

 

I am also waiting for intense chemistry and the Butterflies.

 

I believe it'll happen for us both.

 

I just don't think it happens often, where intense chemistry is MUTUAL and where stronger feelings are present.

[lana-banana]

That's what I want too.

 

I am saying that it's very rare to get that intense chemistry with a long term relationship.

 

I am holding out for what you have.

 

I am being realistic in saying that not many people end up finding it.

 

I just don't think that's true. Quite a few of my friends are married and all of them had pretty passionate beginnings. Yes, not everyone ends up with Prince Charming, but intense chemistry helps sustain long-term relationships long after the honeymoon phase is over.

 

You seem to have this idea that the vast majority of married people compromised or settled and I don't know why. Marriage is no longer essential in western culture; if anything, the people who are getting married nowadays are MORE likely to be deeply in love because otherwise there's no need.

[venusishername]

I met someone over Memorial Day weekend and we've been in contact ever since. He came right up to me and started talking to me when I was out with friends listening to music.

 

He's saying (and DOING) all the things that would indicate his sincere interest in me. He's a gentleman, he's consistent, persistent but not pushy or overbearing, remembers things I say about my life and is genuinely trying to get to know me, and is in comparison to my recent experiences (with R coming back into the picture)- just a good guy, good intentions, sincere, honest, and respectful. He's transparent. There's no wondering. There's no doubt. There's no 'does he like me or not? Is he interested? Should I text him?' What a weight lifted. Yes, THIS is what it is supposed to look like when a man is interested. It's very clear.

 

We've been out on a couple dates now, twice were daytime outdoor and public activities. Last weekend was a dinner date. He walked me home after that dinner date and I didn't invite him in; we ended up sitting on a bench outside and drank some wine and talked for hours until it was very late. Then he went home.

 

He's affectionate but not pushy or grabby, he's smart and we have things in common and the conversation is easy. He's attractive and fit and just an all around good guy. He's the boy next door.

He'll text me at least every other day if not every day just to say hello, calls me beautiful, 'you looked beautiful... again', would you like to go to a comedy show, would you like to meet for lunch (we work on the same street). He met me in my favorite lunch spot at a park last week, during his break, and we just walked and talked and he walked me back to work.

 

I declined meeting him this weekend (even though I know he was hoping to see me) but I had a full weekend booked, and in fact I had tentative plans to first meet with someone I've been talking to online. The good guy still contacted me just to say hello, even though he remembered the details of my schedule that I had told him about for my weekend. 'So I know you are busy Sunday... so when ARE you available?'

 

The other night he texted me randomly asking about details about myself...you know, like actually trying to get to know me! Go figure.

 

The night we were on the bench after first date, second time meeting, we kissed and I sat on his lap but that was it. And I haven't really thought about anything more than that, physically.

 

I'm not over the moon attracted to him. He's attractive, and I like him, and it's not because he's 'too nice'... because he's still nice but still a man about it and not weak or meek; it's not like he's a doormat. I don't get as excited as I would like to when I hear from him. I just don't think our interest level is the same. Maybe it will grow for me? Maybe this is my problem and why I'm still single? Obviously going for the guys who are not so good for me, who are unavailable? But can't there be a happy medium?

 

I would LIKE to give this a chance, because THIS is the kind of guy I'm looking for; he seems VERY (and sincerely) interested in getting to know me, is very attracted to me (which means nothing and I find for the men I date anyway seems to be a given), and like I said is a good guy, just transparently a good person. Good career, strong and fit, educated, family oriented, kind, respectful, sweet, driven, creative.

 

I know the pattern I need to break is 'leading' with the physical attraction; and so I will continue to see him and get to know him. But I'm still interested in meeting other people.. I don't feel all giddy and excited about him as I'd like to feel. Actually, I feel like I don't care as much about meeting someone or chasing that 'feeling' as I used to be in general.

 

 

The good guy is slightly nerdy and just a little bit awkward, but it's in an endearing way; I'm just used to being with men who are very confident and macho, commanding of a room and attention; I just don't see how I'm ever going to NOT be attracted to that. So many women are... and it's not a fault!

 

I've been advised to be open to building a friendship with the good guy, get to know each other, take it slow, see what happens. Maybe all it will be is friends... and actually I'm ok with being open to that. But he's really interested in me. I don't know if it's fair to lead him on when I'm not 'sure' but he is. Time will tell. Here is an opportunity for me to develop something beyond superficial. I'd like to take it and see where it goes. I just don't get the butterflies and I want to.

 

 

Like we've said in this post, I KNOW it's possible to have the butterflies and passion and also have a true and substantial connection. If you don't have that, what's the point?! SERIOUSLY- I'd rather be alone than without the WHOLE PACKAGE. I mean, as much as I want my husband and my own family, and that security and togetherness... I am just as content being independent and enjoying my life and being single. I don't want to settle. I do need to be more OPEN to approaching relationships differently, I do know that... and now I can see clearly which men are in it for real and who are just out for a good time. It's about 50/50 I've found. It's just about the right connection. Sometimes it's just a matter of time.

 

My 'tentative' other date last night- he's been contacting me on the regular as well, I was the one who rescheduled due to an up in the air prior engagement that ended up materializing. I look forward to meeting him, but with the online apps, so many people talk to you for a period of time and then just disappear. It's so easy because you've never even met, so who cares?

 

At the moment, I am just open. I am doing my best to be transparent and also receptive.

Edited June 8, 2015 by venusishername

[Eighty_nine]

Venus, butterflies and all that can build. It's not always instant.

 

And even when it IS, even in the highest-chemistry cases, it will always, always fade. There's gotta be more there to back it up. I think you should give this last guy more of a chance.

[BluEyeL]

If it's meant to be, the butterflies will come soon! You'll not miss that. Just because they're not so strong as you meet someone for the first time, it doesn't mean they're not on the way.

 

For me, they always come later. Have you thought that with the other, unavailable guys, the butterflies were more due to the anxiety that they were inducing into your psyche rather than something better? Fear that they won't like you and then excitement when you hear from them. You know this guy likes you hence not as much excitement ...yet.

 

Good luck! Go out again with this guy! This sounds really good!

[Gary S]

Okay, it's been a month........time for an update, what happened?

[venusishername]

I'm sorry to say- I ended it with that guy at about date number 4.

I gave it a chance and he was so sweet and I know he was really interested in me, and totally deserving of a great woman. I went out with him for the last time and I was bored stiff. I ended the date early by making an excuse and when he tried to kiss me I turned my cheek. He still contacted me anyway and I told him I didn't think it was a good fit.

He was a doll and very nice, just not the man for me. Not only did he not give me butterflies (which I was giving a chance to develop) but he couldn't hold my interest just in conversation. He meant well but just because a guy is 'into me' doesn't mean it's compatible. I felt we couldn't have a conversation and it was awkward and forced. I was bored.

So, that ended about a month ago. Never made it past a couple weeks anyway.

 

 

Since then, I've been resigned. I deleted my OKC profile about a month ago. I don't even look anymore. If I go out and a guy approaches me, I engage, sometimes he will throw himself at me and try to put the moves on, sometimes he'll ask me out. Sometimes he'll even go so far as to try and kiss me. But then he's gone.

 

 

I still kept Tinder, and only apathetically use it. I have about 200 matches and I've been out with over 10 men since I've started using it, in total. Two of those turned into 6 weeks or more.. A and R... although I met both of them offline then found each other again online later. But every other man I've met (except for this last one from the previous post that I met in person)- never made it past date number one.

 

 

For the past month, I have been resigned, until Mr. Good Looking and an officer and a gentleman put on the hot pursuit to meet me from Tinder last weekend.

I explicitly wrote in my profile that I am looking for more than a one date thing. I'm looking for someone who lives in my city. I made it clear I'm not looking to screw around.

 

 

So- before we even met, I was getting super excited because we had a great conversation through text, he told me he is also looking for something serious, and he thinks I'm really beautiful and would love to take me out to dinner this (last) weekend. First guy I've been THAT excited about in quite awhile.

 

I thought our date was great- the conversation flowed, we laughed, he took me to a nice dinner, he was a total gentleman, he was smart, we had a lot in common, I could tell there was a very strong physical attraction too... he was just... well, my type. Handsome, confident, not arrogant, kind, smart, interested in getting to know me, wasn't pushy or cocky. All the 'body language' was there, mutually.. there was a strong physical attraction. Plus, I actually liked talking to him and from what I thought he felt the same way. Never took his eyes of me the whole night. Seemed interested. Talked about how he would like to take me to one of his favorite restaurants next time.

We ended the date and he offered to walk me to my car.. he had his arm around me and as we stopped to look out at the water... he was touching my lower back.. not in a pushy way, just well.. we were attracted to each other. I went in to give him a hug, and he kissed me, he kissed me passionately and it was amazing. I wanted him and he was making it clear he felt the same. Eventually I got out of his grip, I said good night and opened my car door to go home. He looked back at me and said 'I'll talk to you soon!"

That same night he texted me to ask if I made it home safe. I said thank you, I had a really nice time with you. He agreed.

The next morning, he sent a 'good morning'. Good sign, right?

We texted throughout the day and he asked how my day went.

 

 

I never heard from him since. That was Sunday. Lately I've stopped caring what men think about me and since I really liked him, I sent a text today asking how his week was going. You know what my response was?

NOTHING.

 

 

I don't save men's phone numbers anymore unless I actually believe they will follow through (which is actually nobody), so I deleted the text thread today. I also deleted Tinder for good.

 

I have lost count as to how many men I've been out with that I like and to whom I feel a sexual attraction and natural conversation and interest with... who come on to me and/or express interest in seeing me again..... WHO NEVER DO. I can't do it anymore. One date is not worth it. I would rather not even take the risk and put myself out there because the disappointment is too hurtful. The harm it does me outweighs the hours of excitement I feel.

 

I've come to the realization that it's not because I DO OR DON'T sleep with someone after the third or fourth date, or if I only KISS somene, if anything at all. It's not because I'm too needy, pushy, fat, ugly, or boring either. It's not because I use Tinder or because I am attracted to confident, intelligent men who can stimulate me mentally. It's not because I'm attracted to the 'wrong' guys. It's ME. I must be putting up a wall, subconsciously pushing them away, or when they meet me they are disappointed, I don't know.

 

I've resigned. I'm undateable. In my experience there's no shortage of men who want to want to **** me but very few that want to date me. I've met high quality men who are very successful, attractive, and just all around nice guys who say they have good intentions- but then they disappear off the face of the planet. They leave me thinking- WTF?!?!!

How could you be clearly attracted to someone and have a great conversation and a good time together, and even talk about 'next time' if you didn't mean it... and then totally ignore that person? He honestly seemed like such a gentleman to me. I think this is the fourth time this has happened that I've felt this way about someone... NOTHING physical happened so that theory is out the window (except with this guy, a hot kiss on the sidewalk).

 

 

Most of you said previously in this thread that I sleep with men too soon and that's why they don't take me seriously and disappear. Well- I haven't had sex in many months and have been out on two first dates and those guys still disappear. So- it's not sex. It's not the type of man. It's not Tinder. It's not because I'm not straightforward about wanting a relationship and ACTING as though I do (like I have been lately).

I believe it's me.

 

I'm not sure what it IS about me that is preventing me from developing a relationship that goes beyond one night or, if I'm lucky.. six weeks tops.

Actually, that's the longest time I've been involved with someone since my ex four years ago- six weeks. Then he never contacted me again (A).

I'm attractive, I'm smart, I'm fun to be around, I'm not rude or a bitch, I'm not repulsive or crass, I'm not insecure or clingy. Sometimes I think- maybe if I was a bimbo I would have no trouble finding a boyfriend. Most all people who know me say they just don't understand how I could possibly still be single because I'm such a knockout and smart and cool and awesome. Apparently that just doesn't do it for the men that I like.

 

So- rather than put myself out there and even look anymore, I'm giving up. I resign. If some guy approaches me in the future (and he will)... I will probably say no, I won't go out with you. No, I won't give you my number. I consider myself unavailable. I don't even want to try anymore. I have never felt more RESIGNED... no, DETERMINED... to NOT DATE.

 

I have tried for four years to make a meaningful connection with a man who I am mutually interested in. I can't make it happen, even if I want to.

Therefore, no more online dating. Instead of trying to get a date, if I want to go out and do something... I'm taking myself out instead. I don't need anyone because I continually get disappointed. I WANT someone of course.

 

Do you know how badly I want to have sex again?! Do you know how badly I want to be able to talk to someone on the phone about my day, or just have someone give me a hug sometimes and maybe a little comfort and understanding? Someone to cook dinner with and for, and watch a damn movie with, or go for a walk on the beach with. I don't have that in a man, and often times not even with friends anymore. Seems like everyone else around me has no problem at all making romantic connections. Mine always disappear before they even start!!!

 

So I resign to be my own date. If I'm alone, so be it. I can't fight it anymore, so I'm embracing it. I have never felt so resigned and disillusioned with dating as I am now.

 

 

I thought by choosing higher quality men who were straightforward about wanting something substantial that it would be a no-brainer. I was sure wrong!! THOSE GUYS DISAPPEAR TOO!!!

 

Deleting Tinder was liberating. Deleting the text threads of men I was interested in getting to know was liberating. I consider myself the most independent as I ever have been in my life, right now. It sucks sometimes but then again, I can always depend on myself. I would rather depend on myself completely than get excited about ONE MORE MAN who drops off the face of the earth.

 

I'm done. And it's sad, but it feels really awesome to let go.

[Leigh 87]

Oh my.

 

I have totally given up too.

 

Look at my new pics. I am not ugly. I am slim. Not sure why I can't get the sparks and butterflies with a man who feels it mutually for me !

 

I don't do online. I just don't think love happens for everyone.

 

I am also trying to totally forget and lose my urges to fall crazy in love. And marry.

 

My mate performs hypnosis for a living. I am going to ask her to make me stop craving the madly in love happy ending.

 

I like to remind myself that most couples didn't have mutual sparks or butterflies, and rather settled.

[highseas]

It's interesting to see you two pretty women (OP and Leigh--nice pics) lamenting that you can't get a guy to do those things with you.

 

I am a guy and I want all of those things the OP mentioned so eloquently: taking a long walk, cooking with and for one another, making love, etc. I wonder why you're not hearing back from those guys. I on the other hand am trying hard to make contact, give her little surprises and small gifts, and she barely replies. It seems like I have to pull teeth out, and every time I go out with a girl I frankly fear it's the last time.

 

I guess I'm kind of like the male mirror image of the OP: I'm educated, successful, but I am alone here, while most of my friends have already been building families and having kids.

 

On the other hand, OP you should think of the guys that you left behind in the wreckage also. I probably resemble one of your dates, that nice, boring guy who contacted you eagerly and whom you ruled out after a couple dates.

 

Well, hang in there.

Edited July 24, 2015 by highseas

[Leigh 87]

It's interesting to see you two pretty women (OP and Leigh--nice pics) lamenting that you can't get a guy to do those things with you.

 

I am a guy and I want all of those things the OP mentioned so eloquently: taking a long walk, cooking with and for one another, making love, etc. I wonder why you're not hearing back from those guys. I on the other hand am trying hard to make contact, give her little surprises and small gifts, and she barely replies. It seems like I have to pull teeth out, and every time I go out with a girl I frankly fear it's the last time.

 

I guess I'm kind of like the male mirror image of the OP: I'm educated, successful, but I am alone here, while most of my friends have already been building families and having kids.

 

On the other hand, OP you should think of the guys that you left behind in the wreckage also. I probably resemble one of your dates, that nice, boring guy who contacted you eagerly and whom you ruled out after a couple dates.

 

Well, hang in there.

 

 

I prefer men to eagerly contact me....

 

I want the men I feel excited about to be into me !

 

I do not get turned on by indifference or men who I have to wonder about ....

 

I've fallen for a nice guy.

 

It's just the men I fall for never feel the spark or butterflies with me back. And the men who feel it for me, I just don't want to rip their clothes off.

 

I don't lose interest when a man acts into me.... When I'm into a guy, the more eager he is the better !

[Leigh 87]

Venus and I just can't find a man we feel into who is also into us equally.

 

And we both refuse to date men who we don't have wild attraction for. And we have enough had it before and we know people who landed a partner who they felt all giddy with excitement over so we don't feel we should settle for less.

Edited July 24, 2015 by Leigh 87

[highseas]

Leigh, it's good that you like men whom you like to contact you eagerly. Some women seem to lose attraction, though, when men start to do that. It's all a mystery to me, and maybe that's why they don't do that as much?

 

I used to be very communicative, asking them about their day, checking in and saying hello for no reason except to hear back from them, and showering them with little surprises and gifts (not big ones just something thoughtful), but now when I have those thoughts, I check myself feeling that women say they want that, but actually don't. In my experience they all of a sudden think I want to marry them or suffocate them or something and run away. Well, so I stop being as sweet as I could (and wanted to) be.

[idoltree]

Venus, I haven't been on here in months. I'm stupidly in love right now, so I don't sign on as much. So I'm interested to see your latest posts.

 

I saw your going on and on about having walls up because R told you that was the problem. No, that was a good excuse for R to excuse his behavior toward you, while still hoping that you'll want to rip his pants off to right some wrongs. Walls are good. They make you mysterious and they keep men chasing you. Don't confuse walls with a lack of femininity and receptiveness, though. You have to have confidence in your worth, be a little mysterious, and be friendly and receptive with the right man.

 

You gave up on a guy who was into you and who seemed like a decent guy because he wasn't exciting and "commanding of a room", even though he showed strength in other ways.

 

I think you are the Groucho Marx of daters, and you don't want anyone who wants you. You chase these guys who are giving you half-hearted effort, convincing yourself you're wildly attracted, when it's only them hitting upon your anxieties about yourself and your worth. You pour yourself into proving yourself with these guys, because you're chasing feeling that you are worthy.

 

Seriously. Your actions are classic of that. You are running from intimacy, and chasing men who can't give it to you.

 

Venus, forget everything you think you know about dating and love. It could not be clearer that you have taken a wrong turn and you are getting in your own way.

 

Men and women are different. Neither is superior to the other, we just have different strengths and desires. And I see you chasing after the really masculine guys with a very masculine energy of your own. That's a major problem. Forget all your garbage about "equality" and "wanting to text so I'm going to text." That's where you're losing these guys (in addition to sleeping with them too soon for them to take you seriously, but you do seem to be much better about that.)

 

Again, if you want the guys that every other woman wants - including the ones who are younger, prettier, and act more feminine than you - you better be offering quite the package to them. You better be confident and know how to get them to chase you.

 

That's why it worked with the guy you ended things with. How you acted with him is exactly how you need to act with men you are attracted to. You must demonstrate your value in a feminine way, you must not pursue, but concentrate on being receptive. You must be the gatekeeper of sex, knowing that once you have it, you lose your edge. You, out of all single women I know, must wait until you are committed - dating exclusively would count - to sleep with a man, because that is when you lose any frame you had and things go haywire.

 

Someone on here once mentioned a book called "You lost him at hello". I really suggest you pick it up and read it. It is written by a saleswoman, and she talks about the crucial nature of marketing yourself in the early stages of dating. And that it's not fair, but women give off signals via their actions and men judge them for those actions.

 

You would never ever have gone "cute" with R and gone back to his place had you read the book, and you'd also know R was bull****ting you and just wanted to get laid again. That's all he sees you as, because that's what you sold yourself as. You slept with him quickly, you like sex, so he wanted to get some. When it was clear that wasn't happening (good on you, though I still don't get why you went to his house) he lost interest again.

 

That pattern could not be more clear, Venus. Forget walls. Men are not going to be honest with you and you cannot listen to their feedback if they think they've got a shot at getting laid. What men should you listen to? Savvy relatives, your friends' husbands, and guys who cannot have ulterior motives.

 

I think you gave up too soon on that guy who was interested in you. You said you didn't have butterflies, but what you were really missing was uncertainty and anxiety, and those things are antithetical to forming a healthy relationship. A guy who makes you feel uncertain or anxious is not the guy for you, but you are so stuck on those guys. Again, I maintain you're still trying to win over absent daddy-figures with the guys you date. You choose men who abandon you in some way or act in a way where they aren't sure about you - that's like your personal catnip. Those aren't butterflies you feel, Venus. They are anxieties.

 

I really wish you would see the forest for the trees and overhaul your belief system about dating. It's not that you haven't met the right guys (or guys with potential), it isn't that you have walls up because you're scared. It's because you don't know what the hell you're doing. It's because you place value only on douchey guys that don't want you, because you're chasing daddy's love. It's because you think that guys who are fully into you have something wrong with them. It starts with you, Venus, and it ends with you. Keep on keeping on, or do the tough work to throw out everything you think you know and start over.

 

You cannot ensure capturing every guy's interest whom you want to capture. Men can have baggage, they can find someone they want to pursue more than you, and there are other things that are totally out of your control. Your date with the guy who stopped texting may have just not been available to you for whatever reason. But I do know that you do not want to mess up with a guy who is ready and wants the same things you want, so chalk it up to practice when it happens.

Edited July 24, 2015 by idoltree

[venusishername]

Thanks for your response.

I'm not able to write much now but will later.

I agree with what you said about R, so thank you. That clears things up and it's too bad if true- that's all he sees me as. I was so attracted to him it happened quickly - if that makes me only seen as for sex I'm not sure how that translates over to other situations with other men.

 

I also agree about the guy I just went out with the other night. But that seems to happen to me more than what is normal. I don't pursue these men.

I text a few days later if I hear only because I had a nice time and am trying to be more open. I don't consider that masculine. Honestly I put forth very little effort lately. I've just been showing up and responding to texts or invitations.

In fact I did that before too so I don't see that being a problem- that I chase.

Chasing would be contacting or trying to date someone who didn't seem or wasn't interested and had made that clear. I don't do that. So I don't grasp what you are saying there or how I am acting in a masculine way.

With the nice guy- hey there were times I initiated contact. Is that chasing? Is that being masculine or acting needy??

I'm missing your point big time here.

 

More later.

Edited July 24, 2015 by venusishername

[Leigh 87]

Idoltree

 

Butterflies can be there in absence of fear and anxiety.

 

Just look at all the posters who have long term relationships with men who the sparks flew with !

 

I have a friend who had the butterflies with her partner.

 

My mum did with my dad.

 

It's called intense chemistry and sparks. It's NOT always due to a person who keeps us guessing...... I've personally felt butterflies for men who made it obvious that they were into me.

Edited August 24, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
malicious spelling error. ~T

[venusishername]

Exactly, Leigh!!!

I have felt that same excitement for men who WERE into me. It's just been since my last relationship that was the case. Therefore- I believe it's possible.

 

And no- I won't settle because I KNOW what it is supposed to feel like. It's not anxieties or insecurities that cause my butterflies.

[Eighty_nine]

Idiotree

 

Butterflies can be there in absence of fear and anxiety.

 

Just look at all the posters who have long term relationships with men who the sparks flew with !

 

I have a friend who had the butterflies with her partner.

 

My mum did with my dad.

 

It's called intense chemistry and sparks. It's NOT always due to a person who keeps us guessing...... I've personally felt butterflies for men who made it obvious that they were into me.

 

Leigh, it seems you'll just never get it, and I take a lot of offense in you saying "most people settle." I'm thinking of everyone I know in relationships and can think of only one where that may be true. My friends and I are totally open with each other and I know for a fact none of them have settled, all of them love and have a great sex life with their partners. Was there "intense chemistry" at the beginning??? I don't know. Never explicitly asked them that question. But your notion that most people are sterling is flat-out wrong.

 

Venus, I'm sorry this didn't work out. I agree that it's strange that he messaged you when he got home, chatted the next day and then disappeared. He sent you lots of signs that he was into you.

 

But I see a lot of backsliding in your post- you did a lot right. No chasing him, NO first date sex, waited several days to contact him after not hearing from him. Just because it didn't work out does NOT mean you should go back to your old ways of early sex and over availability! Please understand that. I've never in my life had sex before a 4th date, and I've still met both plenty of guys who liked me and some who rejected me. please understand that even when you're doing stuff right, sometimes it won't work out. Your chances of a successful relationship increase, tho.

 

I feel like more than anything, dating is supposed to feel easy. If it's forced or uncomfortable, it's not right. But that "easy" feeling is bliss for me.

Edited July 24, 2015 by lissvarna

[venusishername]

Thanks, Lissvarna.

I won't backslide- I think I've come a long way since the way I was going about things before.

Maybe after R and meeting the nice guy it changed my view.

I don't think I am currently doing anything wrong. And just because a nice guy who's into me and genuine about getting to know me doesn't mean I have to want a relationship with him. I personally didn't feel it was compatible only because I just didn't feel a romantic connection with him. I thought he was very sweet but it wasn't because he was 'into' me that I shut it down. I gave it several weeks' time and consistent contact and several dates.

One things for sure- he never made me have any doubt. And that's the key. I didn't hold that against him. He made me feel beautiful and special in that short time. And I truly believe I deserved to feel good about myself. Maybe meeting him was just the shot in the arm I needed. And time.

 

And I am firm in my belief also that people shouldn't or don't settle for the 'safe' option- none of my friends are in relationships like that. In fact I don't know anyone who is. So I throw that idea out the window.

 

I think what has changed for me is that in the past I would have been likely to gravitate or get wrapped up in someone who wasn't 'available' in the way deep down I am looking for. THAT was settling. The nice guy reminded me what it supposed to look like. And that's what I want- with the right person!

I won't settle again just because im lonely or chasing attention.

Lately- I've been much more secure in myself- which is why those behaviors have changed. I'm much more accepting of being alone and creating my own security so I don't seek that from men in the way I think I used to.

Let's say another R comes along. And he will. The minute I stopped feeling 'easy' or just relaxed and receptive- i would know it wasn't a good situation for me.

I also now would not sleep with someone before getting to know them first and giving time- even though both of my long term relationships began after sex before the 'fourth date'. I guess I have come to terms that if you do that- it's simply more risky. It could work. It's just not guaranteed there will be a connection to follow.

 

I DID sell myself as just for sex with R. I wasn't ACTING as though I wanted to be taken seriously. That's why I won't do that again. That was my hormones and loneliness. He made me feel very desirable - when we were in bed and leading up to it. But that's it.

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with being attracted to a certain personality type. None of the things I find attractive about a man's personality are negative things so why change that? I don't see any competition with other women as far as that goes. Just because lots of other women want a confident alpha male doesn't mean my chances are any less with a nice guy who is also alpha and masculine. I am unique and the idea of "younger prettier and more feminine" women than me doesn't faze me. Why? Because I'm Venus and I am confident in who I am.

 

Maybe there have been moments that I felt unworthy or seeking validation. I can see that. And I gave my attention to men who made me feel that 'uneasiness'. I don't think I was ready all this time for another serious relationship- and I just didn't see it. That's why I found myself in casual relationships- because I didn't want to open up more than that - or feel vulnerable.

Actually i don't think I was ready to feel vulnerable until I began to believe more in myself- which is where I am now. My therapist told me a long time ago that it's easier to trust others when you trust yourself. I didn't really get that until now.

What she meant was its easier to be OPEN to intimacy when you trust you will survive rejection or pain. If you keep putting walls up (like I did by 'Settling' for half assed relationships that lacked any substance)- you won't receive something that's real.

I guess that's what's changed in me. I say I resign because I no longer NEED to rely on others for my happiness. Therefore I'm far less likely to repeat the old patterns.

It still does not change the disappointments I encounter though- now that I'm sure of what I am looking for. I think what I can't grasp is why it's been a repeated thing lately (even with these behaviors) that I get the silent treatment. I could be the best version of myself and do everything right and be confident- and I still get ghosted.

That's why I say I resign. I wouldn't stop on the new path that's getting me closer- sometimes it just seems easier not to give a damn and be self-reliant.

Edited July 25, 2015 by venusishername

[trolloperative]

YouTube Chazz Ellis and watch all his videos. They apply to you although you will deny it... You are being played by many of these guys.

 

I read your last few posts and they contradict each other. In the first you say you give up, in the last you're not. There is nothing wrong with wanting an alpha, the issue is they don't want you back and you need to figure out why. Hope you watch the videos and they help.

[lana-banana]

There's nothing wrong with taking breaks every now and then, but don't do the whole "I'm done with men forever" thing. That's not what you want and you know it. If you want the butterflies, the kisses, and the happily ever after, you're going to have to put in the work. To be honest it doesn't sound like you've had that many bad experiences---when I was dating online I think I went through 6-8 guys at a time without ever making it to a third date, and only one of my online dating ventures turned into a long-term relationship. I think your experiences are unfortunately quite common. Take as much time off as you need but keep your heart open and don't give up. I am living proof that love can happen when you least expect it.

 

I also have to disagree with Leigh. Leigh, I don't know if you're saying it as a coping mechanism or what, but it's not true. Most people who marry do it because they really and truly love their partner, no settling involved. In this day and age there's really no incentive or reason to marry unless you genuinely love your partner and want to be with them forever.

[Leigh 87]

There's nothing wrong with taking breaks every now and then, but don't do the whole "I'm done with men forever" thing. That's not what you want and you know it. If you want the butterflies, the kisses, and the happily ever after, you're going to have to put in the work. To be honest it doesn't sound like you've had that many bad experiences---when I was dating online I think I went through 6-8 guys at a time without ever making it to a third date, and only one of my online dating ventures turned into a long-term relationship. I think your experiences are unfortunately quite common. Take as much time off as you need but keep your heart open and don't give up. I am living proof that love can happen when you least expect it.

 

I also have to disagree with Leigh. Leigh, I don't know if you're saying it as a coping mechanism or what, but it's not true. Most people who marry do it because they really and truly love their partner, no settling involved. In this day and age there's really no incentive or reason to marry unless you genuinely love your partner and want to be with them forever.

 

Actually, most relationship experts agree that MOST relationships don't begin with sparks or intense chemistry. Most experts state that a strong mutual spark initially followed by butterflies is rarely how most married couples start out.

 

I'm sure these people are happy.

 

However, my definition of settling that applies to me, personally, isn't settling by most other people standard.

 

Most people are happy to date someone who doesn't overwhelm them with a spark initially. A person who they don't exactly get all excited about hearing from again . And despite the less than intense chemistry and fireworks initially, they get to know each other..they don't exactly fall hard or become smitten, but the second is still great even though they bypassed the infatuation stage. Things are good. Great even, but they don't feel crazy in love or madly I love. There was no ripping each others clothes worthy chemistry. Just a nice person who they felt, screw it, with so many flakes and jerks I am going to give this decent seeming person a go DESPITE not feeling the butterflies. Sure, passion builds but it's never the same as those people who we feel the spark with and who feel fall MADLY for from the start.

 

To me, even having a second or third date with a man who I don't share amazing sparks with and look super forward to his texts, is settling. The warmer and fuzzier less intense chemistry without the butterflies just won't cut it. At least not for me.

 

What I want, very very few people find in a relationship. ........

 

I want the initial spark. I want my future man to think I'm gorgeous instantly rather than having to grow into finding me attractive...... I want to go away from the date feeling super excited about whether or not he'll text me. I want naturally intense chemistry from the outset that makes us want to rip each others clothes off... I want to grin like an idiot just from thinking of them. I want the infatuation. The super lusty beginning.

 

A " well I am nearly 30 so I better forget about the sparks and level of lust and intense emotions I felt for the men I truly yearned for. ...better date the guy who doesn't make me cringe and I could work my way towards great ( but never mind blowing) sex with".

 

That just won't do. Not for me.

[Leigh 87]

So unfortunately, women like Venus an I can do a few things. .

 

We can hold out for a guy who sparks fly with mutually and who is also really equally into us and ends up wanting to marry us.

Those men who's texts instantly make us smile and in a good mood.

The men we get the strong and intense in love feelings for as opposed to the less intense slow burn love that has less passion.

Or, we can give up on intense chemistry, an initial spark and the butterflies and settle down with one of the decent guys who currently want to date us. We can bypass the butterflies and longing for them and wanting to rip their clothes off chemistry in favor or good sex rather than amazing sex.

 

If we opted to settle for less than butterflies and "his texts" that just make out heart skip a beat, there are men who want to settle down with us right now.

 

I don't personally believe I will have another relationship. And while I still chat to men online it's clear that I am not likely to meet a guy where the sparks are flying and we are both silly excited over each other. It's just too rare. I have felt it before numerous times about 5 in my life tops out of hundreds of men and one year single. But I've never made it to a relationship with those men that I feel the more intense in love feelings towards.

 

so like Venus, I am trying to come to terms with never dating again.

 

I am still open to it one day but I certainly don't believe that many women get relationships with the men they felt the most strongly for.

I am realistic and there for I am learning to envision my life as a single lady for the remainder of my life.

[Weezy1973]

I think what has changed for me is that in the past I would have been likely to gravitate or get wrapped up in someone who wasn't 'available' in the way deep down I am looking for. THAT was settling. The nice guy reminded me what it supposed to look like. And that's what I want- with the right person!

 

The above, I think is a very important realization for you. Adjusting what you view as settling from qualities in a man to qualities in a relationship. If you know what you're looking for in a relationship, the rest should become easier. If you're not getting it, you move on. Much more efficient!

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with being attracted to a certain personality type. None of the things I find attractive about a man's personality are negative things so why change that?

 

While there's nothing wrong with what you're attracted to, the fact that those qualities you find attractive have nothing to do with someone being a good relationship partner will make it more difficult to find that long term partner you're hoping for. But I agree, there's likely nothing you can do to change it. Some women are just lucky in that the qualities that get them excited are the same qualities that make a man a good long term mate.

 

It still does not change the disappointments I encounter though- now that I'm sure of what I am looking for. I think what I can't grasp is why it's been a repeated thing lately (even with these behaviors) that I get the silent treatment. I could be the best version of myself and do everything right and be confident- and I still get ghosted.

That's why I say I resign. I wouldn't stop on the new path that's getting me closer- sometimes it just seems easier not to give a damn and be self-reliant.

 

As I mentioned above, this is because the qualities that attract you are not relationship type qualities. You're attractors happen to be superficial for the most part, and because of that you get really excited very early on in the dating process - sometimes before you've even gone out on one date! This actually seems to be a common theme with other women on LS who are attracted to similar qualities. They invest very early in the process.

 

Women who are attracted to relationship type qualities will tend to remain "neutral" at the beginning dating stages, until the man exhibits those relationship type qualities at which point they'll start to get more excited. The nice guy that didn't excite you, would likely be a guy that would excite another woman (over time), and that woman will have a much easier time finding a meaningful relationship.

 

But again - such is life. You're attracted to what you're attracted to.