When it rains it pours

[venusishername]

Stick to your guns! It's what you keep saying you're doing, but you aren't actually doing it.

 

Wait a second. I'm sorry, how am I not "actually doing it"?

If I weren't sticking to my guns, I'd be moving across the country to shack up with my boyfriend. If I weren't sticking to my guns, I would brush the things that concern me aside and not talk to him about it.

Can you explain what you mean because I don't understand.

 

If he's not preventing you then you should do it. Explain why it's important to you, why it makes more sense for you to move rather than him, and why you believe it's good for your relationship. Tell him you don't feel ready to be engaged and that you hope to use this time to become closer and learn how to solve your problems together.

I don't think it necessarily makes more sense for me to move than him. See below.

I am not 'not' ready to be engaged. But I agree with you, I hope to use this time to learn how to solve our problems together. So far, I think we are on the right track!

 

I really don't understand why he's so against the idea. Your move should be temporary one way or another---either because it works out and you get engaged, or it doesn't work out and you move home. What's the basis for his objection? Maybe I'm just like you. I need more information.

Yeah, I see what you mean. I don't really understand why he is against it but I just don't think he likes the idea of me moving all the way there and having my own place. He wants me to be with him in his house. I think it's like a primal thing. If I were to tell him why, I am sure he would understand. Look, I'm not moving anywhere until October anyway, if at all.

 

 

Here's my pride kicking in: I don't think I should move. He should come to me. I have a good job and a great place to live. I really hesitate to give that up. I used to chase my boyfriends. I want to be 'chased'. The thought of giving this up for such a big risk seems stupid to me. But... I would consider it, if on my own terms.

 

 

So long as you're able to move down there to be with him on your own terms, in your own place, there's no real issue here. But I don't like the idea that he somehow won't "let" you, "no questions about it".

Yes, that's what I mean. If I move there, it must be on my own terms. He's going to have to accept it. And I think maybe what I said about "no questions about it" has been completely misconstrued. He doesn't like the idea of me moving there and getting my own place. He wants me to live with him. He is certainly not being controlling or insisting that I "CAN'T" get my own place. that is absolutely ridiculous, and I would never tolerate that.

 

All this time, he has talked about the possibility of moving here, the desire to. I was talking to my girlfriends about it, and honestly, I think he likes the idea, but doesn't REALLY want to. You know what I mean? It's like a pipe dream. There's certainly more money to be made in CA but the cost of living is double.

I'm not sure if it would be any EASIER for me to move there than vice versa. He has two kids, many business connections and clients, family, friends, and a decent house to take care of over there. I have a good job, friends, family, and live in a beautiful location. I think it might be a matter of who compromises first.

The good news is that I can't make any moves until October anyway, if that is what happens. So I have some more time.

 

 

As far as your earlier comment about what about what we talked about as far as the future in terms of the financial part... I mean, maybe I'm missing something here but I told him very emphatically that I need my man to be financially stable. That doesn't necessarily mean he has to make a lot of money. I need my partner to be secure enough to carry the weight if something came up with me, like having a baby or if I was unable to work for some reason. I told him I was very disappointed about his carelessness with the parking tickets, and that I don't want to see that happen again. What more can I say? I'm not in a position to talk to him about management of his finances. The same goes for him. I'm not his wife, I don't even live in the same city as he does. Now, if we were going to actually LIVE together and get married, YES. But we aren't right now. He hasn't asked me to marry him.

I don't see how pooling or managing our dual finances is possible right now. We are both actively working on saving (and not spending) money so that we can spend time together. I know he's working hard at it. And I'm happy about that right now.

Edited May 1, 2016 by venusishername

[sc0316]

You mentioned that he now lives in a house owned by his father, perhaps it makes financial sense for him to stay there, disregarding the living costs of each city. Plus, if he were to relocate to a other state, what would happen to his kids? Would they still get to see their dad often?

[Eighty_nine]

I think the texts from the friend/acquaintance are a little weird. If she's jealous, that doesn't just come from nowhere- generally it stems from some kind of involvement. maybe not, or maybe she's a fling from the past, something like that but it would raise some concerns for me, I think. I'd just want to know more about who this person is in his life currently.

[Leigh 87]

Yes men should chase and come to you but he cannot afford it. You are the one wiuth NO KIDS and a great job - he has kids in his home town and does not have your secure well paid job.

 

If he had the money and no kids and still expexted you to move then - yes - you COULD do better. But he does not have the money to and he does have his kids there. You are being too hard on him.

 

It is like how with my boyfriend I can also be too unrealistic; he has a good permanent full time job which is VERY HARD to come by in our local area - MOST ppl commute to Sydney hours away. Yet he is NOT on enough money to warrant taking me out and treating me and spoiling me rotten very often. Being a bit of a princess, I sometimes get down that I do not get taken out on dates often and think " I should not settle for this, a man should take his woman out". What I fail to realise is - Men only have finate financial means! Not all men are on 6 figures! My bf DOES spoil me, just within his own price range and confines! He does his best and your bf IS doing his " BEST".

 

Main thing is, he wants wat you want - a comfortable like with you! Kids and marriage. You share goals.

 

If he had the money you KNOW full well he is a traditional Southern guy who would pursue the woman and move to be with her - IF HE WAS ABLE TO.

 

Just wait it out and ensure you are both heading towards the same shared goals and see he is actively saviing more for your future together - without you nagging or mentioning it again.

[BluEyeL]

The idea of moving there would be for you two to date local and for you to learn if this is the man you want to be with. He may not like the idea because it sounds like you're going there to put him on probation and it is true, this is why you'd go there. If it's so easy for you to get a job, like you said, you could do that.

 

It doesn't matter that he's against it. What will he do? Break up with you if you date him without living with him? I don't think so, if he loves you, he wouldn't do that. Explain that it would be too much pressure for both to be living together so early so you'd like to start separate for 6 months-1 year and if things go well, no worries, you'll move to the next step (that would be engagement, but you don't need to tell him that).

 

Otherwise, given the issues (compounded by the recent weird texts), I don't see this working out. You may either lose a lot valuable time on the wrong person, or break up when you shouldn't have because you filled the gaps with your own interpretations of the situation, which may not be true.

[MidwestUSA]

OP, I PMed you. I hope you'll follow through.

 

My gut is telling me that, while your guy may be 'working on his future', financially, for YOU, he's broke. Probably even heavily in debt.

 

You wouldn't believe the number of guys in their forties I dated who had filed for bankruptcy. Do you know the status of his home? Does he own or rent? If he owns, is he upside down? He may want you there with him for the extra cash. He probably knows he can't afford to 'date' you properly if you have your own place.

 

Sorry if this is harsh, but finances are just a huge source of conflict, and usually irreparable. Do all the investigating you can before jumping.

[sc0316]

I thought the op already mentioned that her bf's house is owned by his father.

 

OP, I PMed you. I hope you'll follow through.

 

My gut is telling me that, while your guy may be 'working on his future', financially, for YOU, he's broke. Probably even heavily in debt.

 

You wouldn't believe the number of guys in their forties I dated who had filed for bankruptcy. Do you know the status of his home? Does he own or rent? If he owns, is he upside down? He may want you there with him for the extra cash. He probably knows he can't afford to 'date' you properly if you have your own place.

 

Sorry if this is harsh, but finances are just a huge source of conflict, and usually irreparable. Do all the investigating you can before jumping.

[MidwestUSA]

I thought the op already mentioned that her bf's house is owned by his father.

 

Thanks. It's a lot of reading, and I'll admit I haven't taken it all in.

 

So, essentially, he has no equity in it.

[venusishername]

Thanks. It's a lot of reading, and I'll admit I haven't taken it all in. So, essentially, he has no equity in it.

Correct, as far as I understand. I've never asked him.

 

OP, I PMed you. I hope you'll follow through.

 

My gut is telling me that, while your guy may be 'working on his future', financially, for YOU, he's broke. Probably even heavily in debt.

 

You wouldn't believe the number of guys in their forties I dated who had filed for bankruptcy. Do you know the status of his home? Does he own or rent? If he owns, is he upside down? He may want you there with him for the extra cash. He probably knows he can't afford to 'date' you properly if you have your own place.

 

Sorry if this is harsh, but finances are just a huge source of conflict, and usually irreparable. Do all the investigating you can before jumping.

I already know that he is in debt. Thanks for your PM. But.. please tell me. What is the point of running a background check if he has already told me about the debt, etc.? I know he got in trouble with the law when he was a teenager.

As for your comment about wanting me to move there for the extra cash.. Ouch. In fact, he said that he has the rent covered, and I wouldn't have to worry about that. He said if I wanted, (not that he is asking), maybe we could work something out if I wanted to pay the electric bill. He said he would be happy if I were to take care of the cooking.

Essentially, his proposition is... I move in with him, I can SAVE money.

 

The idea of moving there would be for you two to date local and for you to learn if this is the man you want to be with. He may not like the idea because it sounds like you're going there to put him on probation and it is true, this is why you'd go there. If it's so easy for you to get a job, like you said, you could do that.

 

It doesn't matter that he's against it. What will he do? Break up with you if you date him without living with him? I don't think so, if he loves you, he wouldn't do that. Explain that it would be too much pressure for both to be living together so early so you'd like to start separate for 6 months-1 year and if things go well, no worries, you'll move to the next step (that would be engagement, but you don't need to tell him that).

 

Otherwise, given the issues (compounded by the recent weird texts), I don't see this working out. You may either lose a lot valuable time on the wrong person, or break up when you shouldn't have because you filled the gaps with your own interpretations of the situation, which may not be true.

Yep. I agree. But can you please elaborate as far as "I don't see this working out"???

I'm going to ask him a little more about it, by the way. Right now, I don't see that it is an issue that should be much of a concern. I think it's just a woman who has a crush on him who was being nosy. That's what he basically said about it anyway.

 

I think the texts from the friend/acquaintance are a little weird. If she's jealous, that doesn't just come from nowhere- generally it stems from some kind of involvement. maybe not, or maybe she's a fling from the past, something like that but it would raise some concerns for me, I think. I'd just want to know more about who this person is in his life currently.

Me too. I'll find out more. But I don't see this as being something to lose sleep over.

[MidwestUSA]

Venus, the fee for a check is worth the peace of mind.

 

Before I learned the hard way, I went on a few dates with a guy. I'd been riding around in his vehicle. When I finally checked, I found he had at least six DWIs, and no driver's license. And, rather than work on consolidating/paying off debt, he'd filed for bankruptcy. Yes, a lot of people do. But it's something I'd want to know before getting involved.

 

He wasn't the only one who lied by omission.

 

I'm not the type to live paycheck to paycheck, and it's fine if others can do it. But, I don't have a desire to be part of it.

 

It's just a safety check. Certainly if you're considering moving across country?

[Imajerk17]

I've been following along this thread, and I also find your boyfriend's insisting/really wanting (not sure of the correct verb here) you to move in with him if you move to NOLA to be bizarre at best. The next step in your relationship really would be to see if you are compatible on a day-to-day basis, and is NOT to be moving in w someone (especially in light of all these unanswered questions). I'm having a tough time imagining why he disagrees w this so strongly.

 

I think all your long long posts come down to this: There are some very fundamental things about your boyfriend that you can't really know being long-distance (stuff from how responsible or not he is w money to can you put up w his habits on a day-to-day basis), and your anxiety-prone mind is spinning out of control trying to fill in the details. You really will only have your questions answered living in the same city for some time.

Edited May 2, 2016 by Imajerk17

[No_Go]

Second the opinion for background check - also backed up by personal experience.

 

I found 32 (!) offenses from my ex just by running bg check after I left him, because I was dumb enough not to check before (AND he uses his middle name, whereas his offenses were reported on his first name - beware of something like this!)

 

My ex said to move in together to save money and RUINED me by not paying anything afterwards. His next girlfriend -victim btw contacted me recently to explain that he robbed her AND assaulted her - you can check it in my thread.

 

So background check is a MUST if you decide to move to him + ideally some form of proof that he has income flow.

 

Venus, the fee for a check is worth the peace of mind.

 

Before I learned the hard way, I went on a few dates with a guy. I'd been riding around in his vehicle. When I finally checked, I found he had at least six DWIs, and no driver's license. And, rather than work on consolidating/paying off debt, he'd filed for bankruptcy. Yes, a lot of people do. But it's something I'd want to know before getting involved.

 

He wasn't the only one who lied by omission.

 

I'm not the type to live paycheck to paycheck, and it's fine if others can do it. But, I don't have a desire to be part of it.

 

It's just a safety check. Certainly if you're considering moving across country?

[venusishername]

I'm not against doing a background check.

I am not doing well, guys. I need to get out of my own head.

He and I talked about the living together in the same city again today, and it is very clear to me that he is not ready to take things to the next level, and neither am I.

 

He wants me to be with him, he would support my decision to move there and get my own place, if that's what I want. He's trying to sweeten the deal for me by making living there sound like I'd save all this money, I could even have my own room and closet, because there's room for my furniture, etc.

He seems to really have this idea of 'having me in his house' that he's really holding on tight to. But, he conceded that if me getting my own place is what would get me there, then he would support my decision.

 

At first, we got into the topic of living together. We have different views on this, but we both understand each others' takes on it.

 

I told him that I'm not moving in with him as a "trial run". And his response was, "that's why I need your father's permission to have you here. But please understand, I need some time to think this through".

 

Well. So, he's not ready. He wants me in his house, he wants to be close to me, but he's not sure if he wants to marry me.

 

We left the conversation with me telling him thank you for his offer, but I guess I need some more time to think things through too.

 

Maybe it's too soon to be talking about this. I just get very frustrated with the distance. Especially since there is no concrete date fixed and planned for when we will see each other next. He talks about it, but nothing is set yet. I know that the only way this can work for me is if we live in the same city. It's gotten to that point.

I told him that too.. that it won't work or succeed unless we are in the same city. Not today, but in the near future... it's heavy on my mind.

 

I'm guessing the very best thing I can do is back the hell off.

Edited May 2, 2016 by venusishername

[lana-banana]

I don't get this guy. He's nowhere near ready to get engaged (which is understandable after such a short time), but he wants you to live with him, and he's still so averse to you living in the same city? Why doesn't he want you down there to be closer to him?

 

It's also weird that his response is "that's why I need your father's permission, I just need more time". Being engaged is not the issue. The issue is you want to get closer on a day-to-day level before you feel ready to be engaged. He is inexplicably and adamantly opposed to this idea. What gives?

[No_Go]

IMO he's right here. You've been dating just 6 months or so and it is long distance. Marriage is out of the cards now; however - he's not against the idea once you get to know each other better.

 

Don't let your past bad experience affect you. The other guy didn't marry you because he didn't want to, Not because you lived together.

 

I think this guy has issues but his attitude towards marriage is not wrong. He has the right to have his worries too.

 

If I were you, I'll move there in a small apartment, still spend a lot of time together, and once ready (it could be soon) - you'll see does it makes sense to live together, get engaged etc.

 

I'm not against doing a background check.

I am not doing well, guys. I need to get out of my own head.

He and I talked about the living together in the same city again today, and it is very clear to me that he is not ready to take things to the next level, and neither am I.

 

He wants me to be with him, he would support my decision to move there and get my own place, if that's what I want. He's trying to sweeten the deal for me by making living there sound like I'd save all this money, I could even have my own room and closet, because there's room for my furniture, etc.

He seems to really have this idea of 'having me in his house' that he's really holding on tight to. But, he conceded that if me getting my own place is what would get me there, then he would support my decision.

 

At first, we got into the topic of living together. We have different views on this, but we both understand each others' takes on it.

 

I told him that I'm not moving in with him as a "trial run". And his response was, "that's why I need your father's permission to have you here. But please understand, I need some time to think this through".

 

Well. So, he's not ready. He wants me in his house, he wants to be close to me, but he's not sure if he wants to marry me.

 

We left the conversation with me telling him thank you for his offer, but I guess I need some more time to think things through too.

 

Maybe it's too soon to be talking about this. I just get very frustrated with the distance. Especially since there is no concrete date fixed and planned for when we will see each other next. He talks about it, but nothing is set yet. I know that the only way this can work for me is if we live in the same city. It's gotten to that point.

I told him that too.. that it won't work or succeed unless we are in the same city. Not today, but in the near future... it's heavy on my mind.

 

I'm guessing the very best thing I can do is back the hell off.

[Eighty_nine]

IMO he's right here. You've been dating just 6 months or so and it is long distance. Marriage is out of the cards now; however - he's not against the idea once you get to know each other better.

 

Don't let your past bad experience affect you. The other guy didn't marry you because he didn't want to, Not because you lived together.

 

 

bingo. Living together wasn't what prevented that relationship from growing.

[venusishername]

I don't get this guy. He's nowhere near ready to get engaged (which is understandable after such a short time), but he wants you to live with him, and he's still so averse to you living in the same city? Why doesn't he want you down there to be closer to him?

 

It's also weird that his response is "that's why I need your father's permission, I just need more time". Being engaged is not the issue. The issue is you want to get closer on a day-to-day level before you feel ready to be engaged. He is inexplicably and adamantly opposed to this idea. What gives?

Huh?

I'm sorry Lana, I think we are not seeing things in the same light. What he is essentially telling me is that he's not ready to commit, but he wants me to live with him so he can have me close to him and get all the benefits of me living with him while he isn't ready to propose. It's called "having your cake and eating it too". Unfortunately, a lot of men try to get away with it. Hell, it's happened to me. I can't say I blame the guy for asking, because I'm sure many women wouldn't feel as adamantly as I do about it, and would move in with him out of fear of losing him or something, like I used to do. After learning some hard lessons, wasting most of my twenties on two men that never wanted to marry me.... I stand very firm.

And he's NOT "adamantly opposed to this idea" at all. When I told him about it, he said he would love to have me there, but especially in his house. He said he would support what I choose if that means I could be closer to him. What I get from it is that he's not thrilled with the idea because he knows that move would be on my terms, not his. But he would be happy if I came there of course.

 

 

Oh and by the way.. hopefully this will clear up the confusion... I am actually quoting directly here:

ME: "IF I were to move there, I would get my own place. I'm not moving in with you as a trial run.

HIM: I know. That's why I need to have your father's permission to have you. ( I realize this doesn't make a lot of sense, but I know what he meant.)

ME: I regret some decisions I made in my last relationships and I don't want to be in that position again.

HIM: I understand. But please, I need some time to think this through.

(Eventually)ME AGAIN: Thank you for your offer. I guess I need some more time to think things through also.

 

 

Guess what? That was early this afternoon and I haven't heard a peep from him since. I need to back off or else he's gonna run away. I've had to "talk" about some serious stuff this past week and I think now is a good time for me to take a step back and take a breather. And take all the pressure off myself and him.

IMO he's right here. You've been dating just 6 months or so and it is long distance. Marriage is out of the cards now; however - he's not against the idea once you get to know each other better.

 

 

Don't let your past bad experience affect you. The other guy didn't marry you because he didn't want to, Not because you lived together.

 

I think this guy has issues but his attitude towards marriage is not wrong. He has the right to have his worries too.

 

If I were you, I'll move there in a small apartment, still spend a lot of time together, and once ready (it could be soon) - you'll see does it makes sense to live together, get engaged etc.

 

 

This is all totally reasonable. I see your point about the other guy (actually it was two guys) that didn't marry me because he (they) didn't want to, not because we lived together. But guess what? I wasted YEARS living with them in HOPES that they would eventually come to the conclusion that they wanted to marry me. Unfortunately, I passed up many opportunities and years of my life that I'll never get back. All because I was living witthem because I didn't want to delay gratification, because I thought if we spent more time together and I gave him what he wanted, that he would make up his mind. I hate to sound cynical, but it wasn't until I dumped those guys, almost an entire decade of my life spent on them, that they realized how stupid they were. One of them actually proposed to get me back. The last one was just simply having his cake and eating it too. Just like my current boyfriend is trying to get away with.

I've seen it and experienced it TOO many times. The more I think about it, the more I already know I'm not going to budge. In fact, I came to a final conclusion tonight.

 

 

I talked to my dad and asked his advice. It's not that I don't value aall of your input, but I just needed my dad's advice on this one.

 

 

He said he would not, "absolutely not" give his permission for me (if my bf asked) for me to move in with him without a proposal. Absolutely not. This surprised me because my dad is somewhat forward thinking and liberal in many ways. Not when it comes to this, I guess.

I told him about my idea to move there and get my own place. He said no. Don't do it. He's right. The only reason I would do it is to try and hold on to the relationship... ALSO with the hope that by moving there, he would feel comfortable enough and ready to marry me. I wouldn't be moving there because I actually WANTED to. I would be moving there out of fear of losing him.

While I totally see the rationality and practicality of moving to the same city so that we CAN get to know each other more...I would be giving up a good job, a great place to live, my family, friends... all for a risk. All for a guy that needs more time to be sure he wants to actually commit. All out of fear of losing him and out of desire for the instant gratification.

 

 

I'm done being a girlfriend. I'm ready to be a wife. I realize that you can't be a wife without being a girlfriend first. So I need to slow down and take some time. However, I'm not going to move there and waste time. I realize I'm still young enough, but I DON'T HAVE TIME TO WASTE. I guess the real point is that I don't want to.

 

 

I'm not going to move across the country and get my own place so that I can get to know him better, and hope that in 6 months from then, that we will be engaged and living together. That's banking on too much. That would be giving up too much that I have here. I'd also be chasing him in effect. I'd be making it too easy.

Granted, I realize that I may need to concede to the fact that he has more ties there than I do. He has two kids, although adults, he has two kids.

They wouldn't be coming with him to California. So, I admit that in the future, I would possibly have to consider moving there because it makes more sense. But I have decided that I'm not moving there until I have a real commitment from him. I'm not even moving across town.

 

 

It's going to be really hard. I know he wants to have me close to him, he wants me in his house because all the obvious reasons. Hey, it would be like I was his wife but not getting what I want out of it. I'm never ever going to do that again. Even if I'm afraid of losing him, which I might.

Also, the idea of moving there and uprooting myself for not even a promise, but an "I need more time" is absolutely out of the question. I'm not going to find myself a year from now or two, five years from now, still waiting for things to get to the next level of commitment. Nope.

 

 

He has made it clear to me today that he needs more time, and he's not ready. However, he is thinking about it and he just wants me to live with him. The reason is because he wants all the obvious benefits of that with no strings attached. **** that.

I have decided that I'm not going to bring it up again, the living together idea. The ball is in his court, like my dad says. Dad says don't go to New Orleans again, you just went twice, now the ball is in his court. Wait until he comes out here again and then see what happens. I've been there twice since we met, he came out here first, two times. Now he's talking about the next time but hasn't made any concrete plans. I think the limbo is what makes me the most uneasy. I find that once we have a date, a huge weight is lifted. Until then, the anxiety kicks in big time.

 

 

It is very hard because the distance is finally come to a point where it's getting in the way for me. It's no longer romantic and longing, as much. It mostly is lonely, and uncertain, and I have doubts, and feel jealousy sometimes. Sometimes I think I could easily lose him to someone passing through New Orleans, just like I was when we met, or to someone local that's interested or vice versa. He may figure it's too hard being in this relationship, and he wants the basic, everyday pleasures and comforts of being with someone in his own city. And that if I don't move to him, and do what he wants, he will give up and find someone who does. I worry that these things we've been talking about lately may scare him off. Maybe he will get scared off today. I haven't heard from him since this afternoon. And we usually do talk at night, if not at least a text. Nothing yet. Maybe nothing tonight. I need to take a step back and not initiate with him for a little bit, or ask to talk, or talk about the relationship for awhile. It's been a really rough week.

 

 

Instead I need to introspect, and take the pressure off this relationship that I have created in my own mind.Today I ran for 5 miles after work. I missed the last yoga class. My best outlets are exercise and writing, so that's what I'm doing. Going to take care of myself and not beat myself up so much about feeling rushed to make this relationship to come together.

Edited May 3, 2016 by venusishername

[Leigh 87]

I think the long distance makes the sense of longing so exorbitant, that it can definately give you a FALSE selse of rushing thing... You fel thAT *intense* due to the distance and anxious anticipation, that it is SO easy to get swept away only to crash and burn when you realise that you are both actual people with sets of expectations and potential compatibility clashes! Even the most fiercely in love couples do.

 

I think you are past the stage where you are just riding so high on the fact that you FINALLY found a guy that you're crazy about/who returns those feelings. Great. Now you are thinking more clearly and not letting the long distance love fest surpase your every day common sense and values you desire in a partner....

 

It may feel like a bit of a slump but it happens to all couples who start out hot. There is ALWAYS the " okay, is he compatible with me, are we going to be able to actually do this and make it wor" --- stage.

 

I have no advice (since I am " only a college student " and have no authority to give advice apparantly, according to EVERYONE), but I really feel for you Venus, as someone who also had a relationship with such a passionate starting point and also crashed out a little once I saw clear incompatibilities and we realised we were so NOT anywhere NEAR the stage of engagement!

 

We talked about engagement and such..... But never do now. We hit that stage. We know chemistry and love enough are not ENOUGH.

 

Mayve give it a rest and just be fun and be yourselfs and stop with the relationship talk. You have both said enough. You know what he may want and he knows what you want. YOU want more from him, where as he is fine with you as you are. Lets see if it can work.

 

Many people in your position have made it work. Some haven't been so lucky.

 

I do not think he will have to live paycheck to paycheck because he is in debt; people can turn their lives around at any age. I am SURE he aspires to more than "pacycheck to paycheck" sort of lifestyle, he sounds too proud to let you lead that type of a life. BUT if he is content/lacks the discipline to change his irresponsible ways, then yeah.

 

I would seriously consider ending it with my bf if paycheck to paycheck was all my bf was aspiring towards.

[lana-banana]

And he's NOT "adamantly opposed to this idea" at all.

 

Compare:

 

He was so against that. He was very adamant that if I were to move there, he wants me in his house. No questions about it.He was so against that. He was very adamant that if I were to move there, he wants me in his house. No questions about it.

 

He seems to really have this idea of 'having me in his house' that he's really holding on tight to.

 

Venus, please don't get upset with people for misconstruing your words when you keep softening or changing the version of events. I am vaguely reminded of the earlier days in this thread when something would happen with A/B/R and other posters would respond, and then you would insist the other posters were misunderstanding. It is hard knowing what to tell you when the story fluctuates depending upon your mood or how much overanalysis you've done already.

 

Oh and by the way.. hopefully this will clear up the confusion... I am actually quoting directly here:

ME: "IF I were to move there, I would get my own place. I'm not moving in with you as a trial run.

HIM: I know. That's why I need to have your father's permission to have you. ( I realize this doesn't make a lot of sense, but I know what he meant.)

ME: I regret some decisions I made in my last relationships and I don't want to be in that position again.

HIM: I understand. But please, I need some time to think this through.

(Eventually)ME AGAIN: Thank you for your offer. I guess I need some more time to think things through also.

 

This reads like you think engagement is the solution to your problems, that you'd be fine and dandy moving down there right now so long as you had a ring on it. I thought you'd decided you needed a better understanding of his finances and your compatibility as a couple first? I was really confused until I kept reading:

 

The more I think about it, the more I already know I'm not going to budge. In fact, I came to a final conclusion tonight...I told him about my idea to move there and get my own place. He said no. Don't do it. He's right. The only reason I would do it is to try and hold on to the relationship... ALSO with the hope that by moving there, he would feel comfortable enough and ready to marry me. I wouldn't be moving there because I actually WANTED to. I would be moving there out of fear of losing him. While I totally see the rationality and practicality of moving to the same city so that we CAN get to know each other more...I would be giving up a good job, a great place to live, my family, friends... all for a risk. All for a guy that needs more time to be sure he wants to actually commit. All out of fear of losing him and out of desire for the instant gratification.

 

Okay then. I understand you've made your decision, but moving wouldn't be "out of fear"; it's actually a very reasonable, rational thing to do, especially considering your career flexibility. It would be giving your relationship time to grow organically and allow you some critical time to determine how well you work together.

 

I'm done being a girlfriend. I'm ready to be a wife. I realize that you can't be a wife without being a girlfriend first. So I need to slow down and take some time. However, I'm not going to move there and waste time. I realize I'm still young enough, but I DON'T HAVE TIME TO WASTE.

 

The number of worthwhile men who would commit to marriage after six months is woefully short, and the number of those who would commit to marriage after six months of a long-distance relationship is probably near zero. And respectfully, if time is that critical, you probably should not have invested in someone who is in no financial shape to get married anytime soon.

 

I'm not going to move across the country and get my own place so that I can get to know him better, and hope that in 6 months from then, that we will be engaged and living together. That's banking on too much.

 

Moving down there for six months is a bigger risk than marrying a guy who can't afford a knockoff CZ band from Target, much less the diamond ring you keep going on about, and who routinely gets his car booted and can't afford to even rent his own property? You really think so?

 

For all your talk about "stepping back" and "taking the pressure off", you just increased it exponentially. You doubled down that you cannot and will not move down there unless you have a ring on it, and that (apparently) needs to be soon. You have prioritized the engagement itself over knowing with certainty that this is a good match for you.

 

Going to take care of myself and not beat myself up so much about feeling rushed to make this relationship to come together.

 

You are the only one rushing this. Good luck, Venus.

[BluEyeL]

I understand that moving there is a huge effort and if you're not too keen on putting that much effort into this relationship, I completely understand.

 

I would separate this from the engagement/moving in together. I completely agree it would be foolish to move in together and yes, even moving there would be this huge thing that you'd do for the relationship. You wouldn't move there out of fear, but to get to know him. LDRs rarely work. It's not unreasonable for him not to get engaged under these circumstances, 6 months LDR.

 

I'm also suspicious of his persistence to move in with him. Since he's not ready for engagement (totally reasonable), he also shouldn't be ready for moving in. Given his money issues, could that be that he'd think about how much money HE would save by sharing with you?

 

I would drop the engagement idea completely right now. You're just dating. Distance makes it harder. There are unanswered questions. You have two options: either keep going this way for another say 1.5 years before you get engaged and try to find out info that way. Or, moving there 6 months and find out what's what. It's not in the hope that he'd commit. It would be for you to have a real image of him and how you could work together.

 

But again, totally understandable if you're not ready to drop what you have in California to put all the energy into this relationship.

[Eighty_nine]

 

 

 

For all your talk about "stepping back" and "taking the pressure off", you just increased it exponentially. You doubled down that you cannot and will not move down there unless you have a ring on it, and that (apparently) needs to be soon. You have prioritized the engagement itself over knowing with certainty that this is a good match for you.

 

 

 

This I'd have to agree with. There's basically nowhere to go from here, with the stipulations you've put in place. At this point your only option seems basically to be an ultimatum... ring or it's over. That's no good.

 

I don't see why marriage in 2016 is of such dire importance, but I'm not traditional, really. Isn't having your cake = being together and eating your cake = being together? Isn't THAT the point, not a ring, house, or label?

[introverted1]

Huh?

I'm sorry Lana, I think we are not seeing things in the same light. What he is essentially telling me is that he's not ready to commit, but he wants me to live with him so he can have me close to him and get all the benefits of me living with him while he isn't ready to propose. It's called "having your cake and eating it too". Unfortunately, a lot of men try to get away with it. Hell, it's happened to me. I can't say I blame the guy for asking, because I'm sure many women wouldn't feel as adamantly as I do about it, and would move in with him out of fear of losing him or something, like I used to do. After learning some hard lessons, wasting most of my twenties on two men that never wanted to marry me.... I stand very firm.

 

Stand firm on what, exactly?

 

If I am reading both of you right, you are saying you won't move until he proposes and he is saying he can't propose until he spends more time with you.

 

Neither position is wrong, but it also seems as though you have both (you more firmly than him) ruled out the logical compromise position, which is that one of you will move to where the other lives so that you can date and get to know each other in "normal" circumstances.

 

So what are the possibilities going forward? You say you are not going to go to NOLA again so is it your expectation that he has (or will find) the money to make frequent trips to where you are, so you can spend enough time together to where he feels confident in making a proposal and you feel confident enough to accept?

 

Or are you expecting him to make the move to you, even though he has children in his current location, no funds with which to make a move, and apparently questionable job prospects once he got there?

 

Is there another option?

 

For what it's worth, I think you are allowing your experiences with previous men color your judgement. You said earlier that you could find a job in NOLA fairly easily. You're young, you have no real compelling reason to stay where you are -- you rent, IIRC, your parents are in good health. Why not move to NOLA for a 6-12 months? That's long enough to figure out where the relationship is headed (might take a lot less time than that) and, even if it the R doesn't work out, you might enjoy living there. If not, surely you could move back to wherever you are now.

 

If not, I fail to see how the relationship can move forward. What am I missing?

[venusishername]

Moving down there for six months is a bigger risk than marrying a guy who can't afford a knockoff CZ band from Target, much less the diamond ring you keep going on about, and who routinely gets his car booted and can't afford to even rent his own property? You really think so?

 

For all your talk about "stepping back" and "taking the pressure off", you just increased it exponentially. You doubled down that you cannot and will not move down there unless you have a ring on it, and that (apparently) needs to be soon. You have prioritized the engagement itself over knowing with certainty that this is a good match for you.

You are the only one rushing this. Good luck, Venus.

 

You make it sound like he's completely destitute. Of course he can rent his own property. He was also married before. I'm sure he didn't give his ex wife a "knockoff CZ band from Target". I really don't think this is fair, or even true.

 

But, you are right about one thing: I have prioritized the engagement over knowing for sure that it's a good match for me. I need to flip that around. I guess I have no choice now, so starting now.

 

I didn't TELL him what I wrote here about my final decision. He knows that I won't move in with him without a proposal. That's completely reasonable in my mind. He knows that I am/was considering moving there and getting my own place though. I thanked him for his offer to move in, but that I need some time to think things through also. I didn't "double down" and raise the stakes. I just know that I'm not moving in with him or moving there anytime soon, if at all.

 

I'm also suspicious of his persistence to move in with him. Since he's not ready for engagement (totally reasonable), he also shouldn't be ready for moving in. Given his money issues, could that be that he'd think about how much money HE would save by sharing with you?

 

I would drop the engagement idea completely right now. You're just dating. Distance makes it harder. There are unanswered questions. You have two options: either keep going this way for another say 1.5 years before you get engaged and try to find out info that way. Or, moving there 6 months and find out what's what. It's not in the hope that he'd commit. It would be for you to have a real image of him and how you could work together.

 

But again, totally understandable if you're not ready to drop what you have in California to put all the energy into this relationship.

I got the impression that maybe he's looking for some financial benefit of having me move in there too, aside from the physical and emotional benefits he'd be getting. For so many reasons, I think moving in to his house is a terrible idea right now. I'm dropping it because it's just not an option for me. Can't blame the guy for asking.

 

This I'd have to agree with. There's basically nowhere to go from here, with the stipulations you've put in place. At this point your only option seems basically to be an ultimatum... ring or it's over. That's no good.

 

I don't see why marriage in 2016 is of such dire importance, but I'm not traditional, really. Isn't having your cake = being together and eating your cake = being together? Isn't THAT the point, not a ring, house, or label?

What do you mean? No where to go? We need to spend more time together. I'm not saying, "right now, ring or it's over".

Yeah, I'm very traditional. So is my family. I want the ring, marriage, family unit, and traditional things.

 

If I am reading both of you right, you are saying you won't move until he proposes and he is saying he can't propose until he spends more time with you.

That is the gist of it, yes. Again, I haven't told him I won't move unless he proposes. I'm just not going to move in with him.

 

So what are the possibilities going forward? You say you are not going to go to NOLA again so is it your expectation that he has (or will find) the money to make frequent trips to where you are, so you can spend enough time together to where he feels confident in making a proposal and you feel confident enough to accept?

I didn't mean that I won't go to NOLA again. I meant that it's his turn to come here next. He agrees.

 

Or are you expecting him to make the move to you, even though he has children in his current location, no funds with which to make a move, and apparently questionable job prospects once he got there?Is there another option?

I would prefer that he moved here. But I'm certainly open to moving there, as you know. I guess this just isn't the right time to think about moving.

 

For what it's worth, I think you are allowing your experiences with previous men color your judgement. You said earlier that you could find a job in NOLA fairly easily. You're young, you have no real compelling reason to stay where you are -- you rent, IIRC, your parents are in good health. Why not move to NOLA for a 6-12 months? That's long enough to figure out where the relationship is headed (might take a lot less time than that) and, even if it the R doesn't work out, you might enjoy living there. If not, surely you could move back to wherever you are now.

You are probably right about my judgment being affected by previous men. Unfortunately, I'm not willing to take the same risk because I got ****ed over. IF in 6 months, I felt the only way the relationship COULD move forward is IF I got my own place there, to see if it would work..of course it would be feasible, reasonable. And btw- I said I could easily get a job because I'm ambitious and hard working. Not because I have great job flexibility. Finding a job has never been an issue for me, so that makes it easier for me to think about moving out of here.

 

If not, I fail to see how the relationship can move forward. What am I missing?

 

Well, I do have an update.

He and I spoke via text back and forth about all this yesterday, and we didn't speak last night. That was unusual for us, I think probably good to take a breather.

This morning he initiated communication (I'm glad it was him to do it), and what he said made me feel better. Sort of. Let me know what you think:

 

He said, "I've still been thinking about our relationship. I have to work a lot lately so it's hard to make definite plans when I will be seeing you next. I know that's what we need more of."

 

My response was that I understand, I hope we can see each other as soon as possible, and I agree.

 

I'm sad that we don't yet have a date to look forward to. I'm sad that he's saying he can't pin it down right now. I have no idea when he will make this happen. But, I am happy that he's been thinking about it, and agrees that we just need to spend more time together. I think that's the bottom line, and I'm going to let it be. I feel very uneasy with this separation, now that he said what he did this morning. The limbo is the scary part.

 

I'm not sure how to take what he said as positive or negative.

Edited May 3, 2016 by venusishername

[GemmaUK]

He said, "I've still been thinking about our relationship. I have to work a lot lately so it's hard to make definite plans when I will be seeing you next. I know that's what we need more of."

 

So he agreed he needs to come to you next and then says this?

Did he work the whole time aside from evenings when you visited him then?

I got the impression he had free time when you were there.

Why would he now not have free time at all?

[introverted1]

Well, I do have an update.

He and I spoke via text back and forth about all this yesterday, and we didn't speak last night. That was unusual for us, I think probably good to take a breather.

This morning he initiated communication (I'm glad it was him to do it), and what he said made me feel better. Sort of. Let me know what you think:

 

He said, "I've still been thinking about our relationship. I have to work a lot lately so it's hard to make definite plans when I will be seeing you next. I know that's what we need more of."

 

My response was that I understand, I hope we can see each other as soon as possible, and I agree.

 

I'm sad that we don't yet have a date to look forward to. I'm sad that he's saying he can't pin it down right now. I have no idea when he will make this happen. But, I am happy that he's been thinking about it, and agrees that we just need to spend more time together. I think that's the bottom line, and I'm going to let it be. I feel very uneasy with this separation, now that he said what he did this morning. The limbo is the scary part.

 

I'm not sure how to take what he said as positive or negative.

 

I can see where this would be an unsettling update.

 

And I also see why it's not clear whether he is distancing himself or if he is truly concerned with how to put together another trip.

 

You know him - what do you think he is trying to do?

 

Memorial Day is coming up. Would that be a possible travel weekend for him? I'm not sure whether both of you work traditional M-F jobs or not.

 

Also, is it possible he doesn't have the money for a trip right now? He just spent money to get the car out of impound and probably shelled out a bit on your visit there.

 

It would be really great if you guys could talk about stuff, Venus. I get the sense that, outside of declarations of love/longing, you two don't share your vulnerabilities easily. Maybe it is too soon for that. But I wonder if he perceives the same sense of you putting your foot down that we do.