Was this assault or not?? I feel violated yet....

[gaius]

You might have trouble getting him prosecuted in a lot of places if you admit to the cops you were aware of what was going on, didn't say no and didn't do anything to stop it for a bit. Especially since he stopped after you did move away.

 

He should have just told you the truth. That he was always attracted to you and laying next to you like that was just too much for him.

[spiderowl]

Falling asleep in front of the TV near a guy and with your brother there too is not an invitation for the guy to start groping you and being so invasive! Most guys wouldn't dare touch a girl if her brother was there. The guy took advantage. I cannot see how he did this in his sleep. His lust got the better of him and he took advantage. Yes, it's creepy. Is he a potential danger to other women? I don't know. If you reported him, it would be your word against his, so hard to prove. Def cut him out of your life and make it clear to him you don't accept his 'drunk' excuse.

 

This guy was sleezy and breaking the law. She didn't invite him to behave like that - she practically had a chaperone there!

[SoleMate]

I'm uncomfortable with the victim blaming I'm seeing on this thread.

 

OP, I recommend talking to a sexual assault counselor. They can help you process the difference between slightly risky ideas and responsibility for someone else's actions. They can also give you info on making a criminal complaint. Even if it's unlikely to be prosecuted, it may be empowering for you to make the complaint, and a visit from a cop or two may be just the wakeup call he needs. A civil suit is also a possibility.....again, taking back your power and a wakeup call.

[TigerLilly78]

I'm uncomfortable with the victim blaming I'm seeing on this thread.

 

OP, I recommend talking to a sexual assault counselor. They can help you process the difference between slightly risky ideas and responsibility for someone else's actions. They can also give you info on making a criminal complaint. Even if it's unlikely to be prosecuted, it may be empowering for you to make the complaint, and a visit from a cop or two may be just the wakeup call he needs. A civil suit is also a possibility.....again, taking back your power and a wakeup call.

 

 

She also had the "power" to stop him when she woke up and noticed he was running his hands all over her but she didn't she let it continue. He then took that as a all clear shes admitted she enjoyed even when he was fingering her she allowed that to continue for a short while too so common now lets use some common sense.

 

So while I am all for genuine "victims" rights I think she also needs to accept some responsibility in this! I don't think the boy was 100% wrong I think he went off her ques and once she pulled away he stopped he did the right thing in that respect.

 

I mean its not like he then pinned her down and continued I think she changed her mind mid way and thats fine and her right and it seams he respected that I dont think he deserves to be charged with anything to be honest...I can see how alot of other wise innocent guys get sent up the river by girls who changed their minds then wanted to play totial victom..im sorry...

[Snaggletooth]

She also had the "power" to stop him when she woke up and noticed he was running his hands all over her but she didn't she let it continue. He then took that as a all clear shes admitted she enjoyed even when he was fingering her she allowed that to continue for a short while too so common now lets use some common sense.

 

So while I am all for genuine "victims" rights I think she also needs to accept some responsibility in this! I don't think the boy was 100% wrong I think he went off her ques and once she pulled away he stopped he did the right thing in that respect.

 

I mean its not like he then pinned her down and continued I think she changed her mind mid way and thats fine and her right and it seams he respected that I dont think he deserves to be charged with anything to be honest...I can see how alot of other wise innocent guys get sent up the river by girls who changed their minds then wanted to play totial victom..im sorry...

 

She used that power. She moved away from him as soon as she was awake enough to fully comprehend what was happening.

 

This man deserves no credit for stopping once caught. The kind of mind that will sexually interfere with a sleeping, trusting friend is not a pleasant one. He could have tried it on when she was awake. He didn't. He did it when she was completely defenceless, unaware and unable to protect herself. Doubtless the fact she awoke feeling a little turned on just makes matters worse for her. That is all part of the violation. She should not feel bad about that, she was not fully aware of what was happening.

 

This young lady bears no responsibility for his actions and should not be told she does.

[dreamingoftigers]

I can't bring myself to make a complaint with the police though.... Just in case of that 10% possibility he is telling the truth. If he is lying though.... *shudder* if he is, he scares me now.

 

They can figure out whether he is telling the truth or not.

 

That's part of their job.

[dreamingoftigers]

Seriously? You sleep next to a guy and you're surprised that he tries to have sex with you? Sorry, I call BS on this. I can fully see how he could've interpreted this as an invitation. He stopped immediately when you made it clear that you didn't want to continue. If you were that protective of yourself, you would not have put yourself in this position in the first place.

 

And in case anyone here interprets my words to mean that I'm saying rape is ok under certain circumstances, I'm not. I'm saying that you put yourself in a position for a guy to think that doing this was ok. This is way different than saying that because you wearing seductive clothing, that you were asking for it. Most women know better than to do what you did. I say take it as a lesson learned and don't do things like this in the future.

 

He intiated while she was UNCONSCIOUS.

 

If you see being UNCONSCIOUS as being an invitation, then I think you need to serious review what the word CONSENT means.

 

THIS WAS NOT CONSENTUAL.

[dreamingoftigers]

How many precautions do you have to take? Apparently a lot more than you did that night. Falling asleep next to a guy who's not your brother is a really bad idea. Still, if he had forced you, I could see your point. What I'm saying is that he probably misread your signals, and he backed off right away. This doesn't sound like a bad guy to me.

 

I totally understand what you're saying. But I hope you can understand what I'm saying. Drinking and sleep and physical closeness will often add up to sex. Like I said, when you responded in a way that you liked what he was doing, I can see how he misinterpreted that.

 

This is complete horse _ _ _ _

 

I don't knowingly know anyone that is going to try and get it on with their brother in the same room.

 

Falling asleep on a couch beside someone =/= sex. Or an invitation.

 

Plus the guy is saying he "doesn't remember?"

 

He "doesn't remember" fingering a girl who was unconscious in the same room as her brother? Seriously? ARE YOU EFFING SERIOUS?

 

She has to wear a chastity belt, say completely sober, not be drowsy or else it equals CONSENT???

 

Is this 1894? Is she supposed to marry the guy too now?

 

This intoxicated girl fell asleep in proximity to other guys, so I guess this was okay too:

 

Steubenville High School rape case - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

I mean, she didn't say "no" RIGHT?

 

Maybe they thought she was into it. Maybe her lack of resistance really cleared the way for the events in question. Maybe she "should have taken more precautions." Because if I fall asleep at the mall, with my brother at the same table, I can expect his friend to finger me. Doesn't matter if the employees from Subway are looking on. I should have taken more precautions.

 

Do my examples seem ridiculous?

This whole "consent by not being awake" seems just as ridiculous to me.

 

Most guys would change their mind in a damn hurry if it was a GUY doing the same actions to ANOTHER GUY. And then claiming "he doesn't remember."

[bathtub-row]

This is complete horse _ _ _ _

 

I see the points you and everyone are making here and, for the most part, I agree with them. But reporting someone to the police is a very serious thing and I don't think that should be done lightly. It can turn what may have been an innocent thing into a true nightmare for a guy.

 

I'm taking into consideration that she describes this guy as very nice, that she behaved as though she were enjoying herself, that he stopped immediately, and he obviously had no intentions of forcing her. It is possible that even though she may have been 'unconscious' when he started touching her, she very well may have responded like she was aware of what he was doing and he may not have realized that she wasn't in her right mind. Granted, it's possible that's not the case, also. I understand that. If he did all that knowing she was 'unconscious', then yes that was a very creepy thing to do. But what if he didn't know? If neither of them drank so much that no one buys his 'I was drunk' excuse, then why was she so out of it that she didn't know she was being touched? That part doesn't make any sense to me.

 

Btw, he wasn't doing that stuff in front of her brother, either, because she said her brother left the room. I'd say her brother wasn't all that bright, either, for leaving his sister in that situation.

 

I would never say that there's a reason for anyone to do anything that's in violation of another's body. What I'm saying is that there are too many variables in this situation and she simply cannot be sure about what happened. I would hate to see a guy's reputation ruined over something like this if it wasn't legitimate. If I were her, I'd have a serious talk with him about it and let him know that because she isn't really sure how it all came about, she isn't going to do anything. However, I'd also tell him that in the future if he does something like that to another woman, he's likely to be reported.

 

My other point is that women need to be a lot less lax about getting into situations like this. I'm not saying that if a woman wanders into a dark alley that she deserves to be raped. But wandering into a dark alley is not a smart thing to do. What I'm saying is that women need to be more thoughtful about doing things like that. It's not about blaming her, it's about pointing out behavior where she's putting herself in a compromising situation -- like walking into a dark alley, or falling asleep next to a guy and sharing a blanket. What she did was not a bright thing to do. It doesn't matter if her brother was present or not, and it doesn't matter if a guy is a buddy or not. Men think about sex and are going to respond to a woman sleeping next to them. Women need to stop being naive about this and stop acting surprised when things happen that they don't want to happen. I personally find it hard to believe that she was honestly surprised this happened, which is why I called BS on it. If she genuinely was surprised, then I hope she has learned from it.

Edited November 8, 2014 by bathtub-row

[TigerLilly78]

. Anyway I was asleep but I very briefly kept waking to what must have been him very slowly running his hands over my body.

 

I kept waking up briefly but then falling asleep. but then I woke up to his hands up my skirt and in my pantys and he was fingering me.

 

I was still waking up to this and by the time I was fully comprehending what was happening I had become very aroused and didn't stop him for a bit.

 

These are outtakes from the OPs original post this in her own words she speaks about how she woke up to him starting things but never stopped it..

 

She used that power. She moved away from him as soon as she was awake enough to fully comprehend what was happening.

 

This man deserves no credit for stopping once caught. The kind of mind that will sexually interfere with a sleeping, trusting friend is not a pleasant one. He could have tried it on when she was awake. He didn't. He did it when she was completely defenceless, unaware and unable to protect herself. Doubtless the fact she awoke feeling a little turned on just makes matters worse for her. That is all part of the violation. She should not feel bad about that, she was not fully aware of what was happening.

 

This young lady bears no responsibility for his actions and should not be told she does.

 

 

You sure she did all she could? you sure? to me it doesn't sound like it matter of fact ide even question if there was drug use or something going on or maybe there was more drinking then shes saying cause I don't know about you but I can def wake myself up when some guy im 100% not interested in starts groping me I def wouldn't let it get to the point of fingering no one of a clean and sober mind would that could also mean she let herself get intoxicated enough not to be coherent enough to stop things sooner again thats a personal responsibility issue..

 

He intiated while she was UNCONSCIOUS.

 

If you see being UNCONSCIOUS as being an invitation, then I think you need to serious review what the word CONSENT means.

 

THIS WAS NOT CONSENTUAL.

 

She clearly says she was awake awake enough to know all this happened awake enough to ENJOY it at one point and awake enough to pull away when she decided she didn't want to continue and at that point the guy stopped again hes not totally at fault in my eyes im sorry..

[TigerLilly78]

 

 

 

 

 

This intoxicated girl fell asleep in proximity to other guys, so I guess this was okay too:

 

Steubenville High School rape case - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

 

Do my examples seem ridiculous?

This whole "consent by not being awake" seems just as ridiculous to me.

 

"

 

Your comparing this situation to gang rape is kinda ridiculous this is a situation were a girl more then likely let herself get intoxicated to the point she didn't stop a guys advances.

 

She was awake awake enough to know it was happening yet didn't stop it she let it get to the point of fingering she admits she was enjoying it SO LET IT CONTINUE until she decided she was no longer interested she then pulled away and HE STOPPED.. yeah thats def the same as a girl getting violently gang raped...

 

Were so quick to want to help a victim that we totally remove any level of personal responsibility from a situation and the guy is ALWAYS wrong in any case were sexuality is involved..

[Tayla]

tigerlily, you are correct. the op hasnt a leg to stand on to frame this as assault. checked with a relative who works cases and this scenario wouldnt land in front of a judge. case closed. op needs to consult a professional to understand the legal evidence required.

[whichwayisup]

I've been friends with this sweet guy for a year. He is kind, respectful, super nice and easy going. He seemed like the kind of guy who was more chaste I suppose. Well my bro and I had him over for dinner and we had three glasses of wine each over the course of 7 hours. We stayed up late and then finally fell asleep on the floor in front of the t.v. We all shared a big blanket but my bro rolled out. Anyway I was asleep but I very briefly kept waking to what must have been him very slowly running his hands over my body. I kept waking up briefly but then falling asleep. I was pretty out of it(sleep deprived) but then I woke up to his hands up my skirt and in my pantys and he was fingering me. I was so shocked and confused as well as scared to do anything for a moment. My mind was not grasping what was happening as this was SO out of character? I was still waking up to this and by the time I was fully comprehending what was happening I had become very aroused and didn't stop him for a bit. Then I scooted to the side and he stopped. I feel so violated even though it did feel good for a moment. And that's what makes me feel worse. We have never flirted with one another at all either so it was a complete shock to me. Next morning I asked him if he was drunk or something and he said yes but he looked like he was lying and he hadn't appeared drunk in the slightest. I still feel sick to my stomach and he acts like it was nothing, just "yeah I was drunk" and forget about it.

 

He did not ask you if this was okay, even if you were turned on by what he was doing, it was WRONG of him to do. Sober or not, that was an invasion and yes, you feel (rightfully so) violated! He should apologize to you! Instead he acted like nothing had happened it and it was no big deal. WHAT A DOUCHE!

 

Tell your brother what he did.

[whichwayisup]

He intiated while she was UNCONSCIOUS.

 

If you see being UNCONSCIOUS as being an invitation, then I think you need to serious review what the word CONSENT means.

 

THIS WAS NOT CONSENTUAL.

 

Exactly.

 

He violated her while she was sleeping. He helped himself. Took advantage of her.

[Tayla]

Exactly.

 

He violated her while she was sleeping. He helped himself. Took advantage of her.

 

Unconscious is to be in a comatose state. Sleeping is not being unconscious.

 

Qui tacet consentit-

 

I'd like the OP to chime in as opposed to hearing morals verses the law perspective.

[TigerLilly78]

Exactly.

 

He violated her while she was sleeping. He helped himself. Took advantage of her.

 

She woke up she saw his hands all over her she did not stop it I think people are choosing to ignore the fact she herself admittedly woke up enough to realize what was going on a few times yet she did not stop it...she also admitedly did not stop it when it got further along cause she was enjoying it..how dose this all equal to her being violated? she wasn't unconscious..! I give up tho trying to inject common sence into this when its obvious its just a witch hunt...

[TigerLilly78]

He did not ask you if this was okay, even if you were turned on by what he was doing, it was WRONG of him to do.

 

When two people start kissing and making out dose one have to ask the other "may I kiss you now may we make out" NO..def not in today's day and age..I think they were both overly intoxicated I think the boy went off her ques..and yeah it would be intresting for the OP to come back and respond agreed...

[SoleMate]

Lots of bad legal advice in this thread and serious misunderstanding of U.S. sexual assault law. Most states explicitly include being asleep as a statutory incapacity that obviates consent. They have to....otherwise predators could assault sleeping victims with impunity.

 

No, the law does not call a few seconds of confusion by a waking victim, or admitted arousal of the victim, a mitigation of the offense. Rape is still a crime even if your body reacts according to instinct. A man's penis can be manipulated into an aroused state over his violent objections. Achieving that physiologic response is NOT a defense to a rape charge. (In fact, it is not unknown to torturers to perform this type of manipulation to enhance their sadistic acts, cf. A Man by Oriana Fallaci, detailing her lover's torture by the Greek secret police.) Likewise, a woman's genitalia can be manipulated while she sleeps and pleasurable arousal can be achieved. Again, vaginal secretions are NOT a defense to rape charges, although there are plenty of rapists and rape defenders who make full use of that infirm and loathsome argument.

 

Some people posting here think that 4 or 5 men sleeping in a tent on a camping trip have all implicitly consented to sexual fondling and penetration by everyone else in the tent. Frat brothers have all consented to homosexual rape (especially if they're drunk or if they freeze in confusion or fear for even a few seconds if they wake during the assault). See the problem now when a male is the victim?

 

Don't feel so sorry for the fingering predator. He could have kept his hands clean - literally. The supposed risk to poor little him of being accused of unwanted and unconsented touching - which is nothing more than the undisputed fact - is no greater than his victim's risk of being assaulted.

 

Oh by the way, don't doze off when you have guests because they can take money from your wallet and you'll be the one 100% at fault, while the thief is pitied, protected, and cosseted.

Edited November 9, 2014 by SoleMate

[TigerLilly78]

 

Don't feel so sorry for the fingering predator. He could have kept his hands clean - literally. The supposed risk to poor little him of being accused of unwanted and unconsented touching - which is nothing more than the undisputed fact - is no greater than his victim's risk of being assaulted.

 

Oh by the way, don't doze off when you have guests because they can take money from your wallet and you'll be the one 100% at fault, while the thief is pitied, protected, and cosseted.

 

So wait the OP admittedly woke up how many times 1 2 3 4 ? and did nothing to stop things letting them escalate to the point were she admittedly was enjoying what was going on and responding accordingly...and hes a predator cause she decided she wanted to stop and he immediately did so? just want to clear that up..

 

Far as her "dozing off" it doesn't add up no women becomes that tired they cannot fight off a genuine sexual predator if they want to I think there was more to the story but we of course only get to hear her side..what surprises me is how many are ready to toss the guy in jail just about on just that alone..

[bathtub-row]

Lots of bad legal advice in this thread and serious misunderstanding of U.S. sexual assault law. Most states explicitly include being asleep as a statutory incapacity that obviates consent. They have to....otherwise predators could assault sleeping victims with impunity.

 

I repeat...

 

I would never say that there's a reason for anyone to do anything that's in violation of another's body. What I'm saying is that there are too many variables in this situation and she simply cannot be sure about what happened.

[bathtub-row]

Repeating this, also...

 

If neither of them drank so much that no one buys his 'I was drunk' excuse, then why was she so out of it that she didn't know she was being touched?

[whichwayisup]

So wait the OP admittedly woke up how many times 1 2 3 4 ? and did nothing to stop things letting them escalate to the point were she admittedly was enjoying what was going on and responding accordingly...and hes a predator cause she decided she wanted to stop and he immediately did so? just want to clear that up..

 

Far as her "dozing off" it doesn't add up no women becomes that tired they cannot fight off a genuine sexual predator if they want to I think there was more to the story but we of course only get to hear her side..what surprises me is how many are ready to toss the guy in jail just about on just that alone..

 

Where's the compassion here? If this was your daughter who came home crying and said this happened to her, would you tell her this? "It's your fault you didn't make him stop touching you while you were half asleep. Why didn't wake up enough to tell him to stop? etc..etc.."

 

The guy is a JERK. A real jerk. Doesn't mean he's a rapist but he is a person who has no respect for a woman.

[whichwayisup]

Anyway I was asleep but I very briefly kept waking to what must have been him very slowly running his hands over my body. I kept waking up briefly but then falling asleep. I was pretty out of it(sleep deprived) but then I woke up to his hands up my skirt and in my pantys and he was fingering me. I was so shocked and confused as well as scared to do anything for a moment. My mind was not grasping what was happening as this was SO out of character? I was still waking up to this and by the time I was fully comprehending what was happening I had become very aroused and didn't stop him for a bit. Then I scooted to the side and he stopped. I feel so violated even though it did feel good for a moment. And that's what makes me feel worse. We have never flirted with one another at all either so it was a complete shock to me. Next morning I asked him if he was drunk or something and he said yes but he looked like he was lying and he hadn't appeared drunk in the slightest. I still feel sick to my stomach and he acts like it was nothing, just "yeah I was drunk" and forget about it.

 

Something like this may not hold up in court but it will prove what type of person he is.

 

Just thought I'd re quote the opening post again because it's obvious SHE feels violated and nobody here has the right to make her feel worse about it.

 

You could confront him and tell him off about what he did and tell him NEVER to touch you again.

[whichwayisup]

Unconscious is to be in a comatose state. Sleeping is not being unconscious.

 

Qui tacet consentit-

 

I'd like the OP to chime in as opposed to hearing morals verses the law perspective.

 

She said that she was extremely tired. Haven't you ever experienced that so out of it kind of sleep (plus throw in 3 glasses of wine) and groggy half asleep not really knowing wtf when you wake up? One time I was so half asleep, something woke me up and I went to the bathroom and walked into the wall.

 

People react differently. Maybe if it was you, you would have yelled or smacked the guy off of you. She did say she was scared.

 

Women have to stand up for one another. Bottom line is, I'll say it again, the guy is a JERK. and classless. Has no respect.

[TigerLilly78]

Where's the compassion here? If this was your daughter who came home crying and said this happened to her, would you tell her this? "It's your fault you didn't make him stop touching you while you were half asleep. Why didn't wake up enough to tell him to stop? etc..etc.."

 

The guy is a JERK. A real jerk. Doesn't mean he's a rapist but he is a person who has no respect for a woman.

 

my rapeist wasent nice enough to "stop when I tried to pullaway" ...mine was a date rape when I was young and while he was wrong for not stoping when I said stop. I was also wrong in many ways for letting myself get into that situation so yes if my daughter came home with a story like this I would also question it why cause I speak from first hand experience..