Wife stresses about money - ALL THE TIME

[beach]

I wouldn't plan a trip if I was looking at being out of work and my spouse was stressing about money.

 

Have you two considered counseling?

 

It's obvious you both make enough money but if a long term plan was mapped out (including unexpected expenses) then she may relax a bit more about finances.

 

For you, it may be helpful to have a plan in case she gets sick or dies - because she is bringing in a higher percentage of your income and what happens if that suddenly goes away?

 

I know the agreement was paying for school for your kids - but that is your responsibility not hers. And if YOU can't afford it the let them go to public school and save the money for college for them.

 

What expenses can be eliminated?

[HereNorThere]

Yeah, the first thing that popped into my head was OCD.

 

I have a feeling if she wasn't worrying about money, it would be something else.

 

Since she is a medical professional, maybe you could talk her into individual counseling or go as a couple at first. Her mental symptoms are already causing physical symptoms and it will only compound until she breaks the obsessions.

 

It's a hard road, but she can do it if she tries.

[marriedagain]

beach - I think if you see my previous replies you'll note the comments on the trip (not going without a job) and more importantly how I feel about her supporting the kids and I ( I don't like it - I want to support myself and my kids - my belief is she has zero responsibility). Again, this is not a one time issue - it is a pattern and quite concerning.

 

HereNorThere - Thanks. I'm seeing a common theme with OCD.

 

You're all very helpful. Thank you!

[nittygritty]

It could just be that the two of you have very different views on money, debt and how finances should be handled. I'm assuming that the approx. income that you stated for both of you is annual gross income? The government does take a significant chunk so monthly net income is what you should be going off of.

 

You stated that "We have little debt - just the mortgage, the alimony and her student loans (about $145k)." And also the cost of your kids from a previous marriages private school tuition. But in reality that is a lot of debt for someone that is facing being laid off. So maybe she resents the idea of having to pay for your debt, her debt and the marital debt? Maybe it is giving her anxiety and depression?

 

The two of you have different income levels. Without her income it would be a financial disaster for both of you. She is obviously worried about what is going to happen when you are laid off. Even though it is not her financial responsibility to pay your previous marital debt that includes alimony, child support and your kids private tuition, the majority of your severance pay will likely be going toward paying the debt you brought into the marriage until you get another job. Which may or may not be the same salary that you previously earned.

 

If you were not married, would you be more stressed about losing your job and paying your bills? Maybe or maybe not. It depends on how you view money, debt and spending. She has anxiety and possibly growing resentment about it. No one likes to feel taken advantage of for whatever reason. And it sounds like she may be feeling taken advantage of.

 

I think you need to talk to her. Find out what her fears, concerns and worries are about how finances are being handled. Maybe she didn't realize how much of your money goes toward paying for your ex-wife and kids? Maybe she resents you spending $4,000 dollars of your severance pay to go on a trip with your friends when she has had to pay for all of the down payment on the house and 90% of the unforeseen problems associated with it? Rather than you contributing it to the rainy day fund that she has fully funded?

 

Own your part in the problems in the marriage rather than thinking that she is the one with the problem.

[nittygritty]

Her money is your money and your money is your money is how it sounds like you view the situation.

[Million.to.1]

Wow.

 

Just wow. To me, this is a perfect example of "money doesn't buy happiness"

I can't even comprehend how someone who earns over 300k a year is worried about money. AT ALL.

We'll only have a few MILLION for retirement and that's not enough? Are you freaking kidding me?

 

My partner and I are in our mid 30's. we have no children yet. We don't own a house. He is a musician and I work in the film industry and supplement dry periods with gardening work. We probably earn 60-70k a year between us. We have 50k between us in savings.

 

We are happy and even though money is tight, we still live a good life.

 

I used to work on Super yachts owned by some of the worlds richest. What a bunch of unhappy, greedy, self obsessed losers. they NEVER had enough. It was always more more more. bigger better faster.

 

You seem to appreciate and value your CLEAR top tier financial position. But your wife needs to go volunteer at a homeless shelter and get some god damn perspective.

[marriedagain]

Nittygritty - thanks for the feedback. You bring up some good points that I need to clarify regarding house downpayment and such. I don't want anyone thinking I'm trying to take advantage of my wife -

 

1. I owned my own house prior to our marriage. It had about $20k in equity but still owned it. She refused to live in a house where my ex wife lived. Against all financial common sense I agreed, for her and our life together, to sell it. I only got $7500 after some repairs and such. All went into buying things for the new house. Note that my old house mortgage payment was approx 67% of what the new house payment is. Additionally, the old house was too far from her work so we moved closer to her job making it an hour commute to drop my kids off at school the weeks I have them.

 

2. I think some of my previous responses clearly address your concern about the trip (not going anywhere unless I have a job). PLUS, I've been very clear with her that if I get a job straight away, ALL my severance goes into the savings so she does not feel like she's doing it all herself.

 

Additionally, I don't even have visibility into her money. Why? I don't want to. It is hers. She has chosen to fund some retirement savings for us (taxable joint accounts). The rainy fund is in her name only.

 

Now, some people may say that a marriage is about joining everything together but I did not want that for the very reason you state - I don't want her to feel taken advantage of.

 

Also, some responders are focusing on the most recent issue. This is constantly going on. I realize she has no responsibility but I was clear, from date #3 what my financial position was.

 

Finally - would I be freaked out about losing my job if I were not married? While not the point of this post, I would not be. Why? My expenses were lower, I did not burn through my home equity which would have been higher by now and I could have used it as an emergency, I would have not burned through other savings paying for wedding costs and most importantly I could have downgraded my home even more as I would be the only one making decisions. But alas, that is not the case - I am married and that is now reality. I'm not bitter, it is just how life is now. Problems don't have one solution - it is a moving target.

 

Sorry for the ramble all, but I do feel that I have not done anything wrong other than not earning as much as she does.

[nittygritty]

Wow.

 

Just wow. To me, this is a perfect example of "money doesn't buy happiness"

I can't even comprehend how someone who earns over 300k a year is worried about money. AT ALL.

We'll only have a few MILLION for retirement and that's not enough? Are you freaking kidding me?

 

My partner and I are in our mid 30's. we have no children yet. We don't own a house. He is a musician and I work in the film industry and supplement dry periods with gardening work. We probably earn 60-70k a year between us. We have 50k between us in savings.

 

We are happy and even though money is tight, we still live a good life.

 

I used to work on Super yachts owned by some of the worlds richest. What a bunch of unhappy, greedy, self obsessed losers. they NEVER had enough. It was always more more more. bigger better faster.

 

You seem to appreciate and value your CLEAR top tier financial position. But your wife needs to go volunteer at a homeless shelter and get some god damn perspective.

 

Huh? Treating sick people isn't enough?

 

She has only been working full time for 6 years. New doctors have debt, student loans and high insurance premiums to pay. And a good chunk of that high income is taken out in taxes. They don't have millions saved for retirement. That is what the plan is but it hasn't happened yet. They have only been married over a year. They just need to work through a common marital problem. Which is how to handle the finances. There are plenty of unhappy poor and middle class people that are losers. That is not the issue.

[nittygritty]

Nittygritty - thanks for the feedback. You bring up some good points that I need to clarify regarding house downpayment and such. I don't want anyone thinking I'm trying to take advantage of my wife -

 

1. I owned my own house prior to our marriage. It had about $20k in equity but still owned it. She refused to live in a house where my ex wife lived. Against all financial common sense I agreed, for her and our life together, to sell it. I only got $7500 after some repairs and such. All went into buying things for the new house. Note that my old house mortgage payment was approx 67% of what the new house payment is. Additionally, the old house was too far from her work so we moved closer to her job making it an hour commute to drop my kids off at school the weeks I have them.

 

2. I think some of my previous responses clearly address your concern about the trip (not going anywhere unless I have a job). PLUS, I've been very clear with her that if I get a job straight away, ALL my severance goes into the savings so she does not feel like she's doing it all herself.

 

Additionally, I don't even have visibility into her money. Why? I don't want to. It is hers. She has chosen to fund some retirement savings for us (taxable joint accounts). The rainy fund is in her name only.

 

Now, some people may say that a marriage is about joining everything together but I did not want that for the very reason you state - I don't want her to feel taken advantage of.

 

Also, some responders are focusing on the most recent issue. This is constantly going on. I realize she has no responsibility but I was clear, from date #3 what my financial position was.

 

Finally - would I be freaked out about losing my job if I were not married? While not the point of this post, I would not be. Why? My expenses were lower, I did not burn through my home equity which would have been higher by now and I could have used it as an emergency, I would have not burned through other savings paying for wedding costs and most importantly I could have downgraded my home even more as I would be the only one making decisions. But alas, that is not the case - I am married and that is now reality. I'm not bitter, it is just how life is now. Problems don't have one solution - it is a moving target.

 

Sorry for the ramble all, but I do feel that I have not done anything wrong other than not earning as much as she does.

 

I don't think you have done anything wrong. I think figuring out a way to handle finances that works for both is a fairly common marital problem. The difference in income levels and views towards money makes it a little more complicated but nothing that can't be worked out. But the both of you need to talk about it together and get it figured out. Accept each other's differences and come up with a mutually acceptable agreement and plan that both of you can live with. Whether her worries seem unreasonable to you or not they are very real to her. And if either of you are feeling resentment it needs to be resolved asap because it will destroy the marriage. Good luck!

[beach]

What are solid expenses each month that you can eliminate to reduce your outflow of money?

 

What are the "extra" things you do each month that always add up?

 

Eating out?

Club fees or memberships?

Travel?

Shopping?

 

Start making a list of what is costing you money spent every month.

 

If you aren't saving money yourself (separately from your wife) then you need to reassess what can be eliminated.

 

If your kids have expenses all the time and your exW won't contribute then you need to start telling them no to certain things.

 

 

If your wife was in school long term and lived without money most of her adult years - it's going to be difficult for her to adjust her mindset. That assigned meaning and family of origin does not go away easily, if ever.

 

Were you seeing this gal while you were married to your exW? How long has your divorce been final?

[amaysngrace]

She measures your worth in monetary value. Unfortunate but true.

 

Now that you're losing your job you're just not worth all the adjustment a new marriage brings. You've been there before...remember how it was?

 

Now imagine feeling like you have to be the sole breadwinner on top of that? It's not what she signed up for and you got devalued as a result.

[SawtoothMars]

beach - I think if you see my previous replies you'll note the comments on the trip (not going without a job) and more importantly how I feel about her supporting the kids and I ( I don't like it - I want to support myself and my kids - my belief is she has zero responsibility). Again, this is not a one time issue - it is a pattern and quite concerning.

HereNorThere - Thanks. I'm seeing a common theme with OCD.

You're all very helpful. Thank you!

 

What level of OCD is she? They usually have a burning need to control things and have order. Do you see any control freak tendencies in other areas of her life?

 

This whole thing didn't make much sense before, but slight mental illness could explain things. Most women would be a bit resentful and bitchy... but not hide in the basement for 3 days.

[marriedagain]

Thanks everyone for the comments. Not an easy night last night or day today.

 

Last night - Seemed ok. We watched a movie (we don't get many trick or treaters) and my kids were both sleeping at friends' houses. Afterwards the topic of job, career, etc. came up. I could see her mood visibly change. She went to get ready for bed. She came out of the bathroom and I asked if everything was ok. She said she did not want to talk about it. We got in bed and she turned over. I turned my light off and after 5 minutes turned it back and told her we needed to talk. The end result (I thought) was that we agreed we would use some of our pre-marriage counseling exercises to tackle the problem.

 

THis morning I woke up with a visibly angry person next to me. We had our Saturday morning "date" (we go work out). She was in such a bad mood that I did not want to go with her anymore. I still went. She had to go into work for a bit. At around 12:30 PM she got home came over to me and gave me a hug and said "Sorry, I'll try to work on my moods". I kind of dumped my feelings on her -

 

1. I asked her to please stop apologizing. It is a broken record. It is nice but if you are really sorry then make an effort to change.

2. I said that maybe we need to see a financial counselor. She clearly has issues with all the models I've built for our future.

3. I reiterated that I have ZERO expectations for her to support my kids. She admitted that those are expectations she created herself. She even said she felt guilty for not providing for my kids. I asked her who made her feel like that - because if it was me then she has to call me out on it. She said she just feels like that.

4. To amaysngrace's point I bluntly asked her how she values me. She gave me a weird look. I then asked her if the value I add is based on the money I make - blank stare. AHA! She recovered and said no but I think I nailed it (thanks amaysngrace).

5. I told her I'm not going to apologize for my paycheck or my situation. If the roles were reversed I would not have an issue. You know guys - my ex wife was a stay at home mom - I supported my entire family and had no issue with it.

6. She stated that she understands the situation and has no issues with it. Just is having a tough time adjusting. I was clear that I recognize that but at the same time while her words say she has no problem with it, her actions are much more different. She stated she understood my point of view.

7. I offered to help her and she said I can't do anything - it is her problem.

8. Later in the afternoon - she decided to do yard work - when I got home after taking my kids to get new winter boots for one of them ($35 at Dick's, the other kid gets the hand me downs), I went out to help her. OMG the angry bitter woman was back. She just left to go to Home Depot. Stomped out, slamming doors and peeling out of the house.

 

WTF!!! My kids are here! They are looking at me like - "what is going on?" Holy cow - they even bought her some socks at Dick's with their own allowance because they love her so much!

 

1.25 years into my marriage and I've married a selfish woman who's number 1 priority is clearly becoming obvious to me - MONEY.

[beach]

Oh wow. That's completely unacceptable behavior and I wouldn't be able to keep participating with her brand of crazy.

 

Are you certain she doesn't have severe mental issues?

 

 

Also, she's not respecting you and your feelings.

 

She's giving you the yes sir and then brewing about it behind your back and then the angry monster comes out again.

 

What is her solution to address her anger and work through these issues?

 

If you are her dollar signs - that's a pretty crappy basis for any relationship.

 

Most of all - her inconsistent behavior is a terrible role model for your kids!!!

[samjess]

Money can be a deal breaker if you let it. If your wife is stressed about it...it may be because she is really asking for "security". You need to reassure her that she has security in "you" and the family you have joined together....encourage her to search for the real meaning in your relationship and find strength in that. I have a similar issue with my husband and what I learned is that ...for me...security meant a college degree...he has one and is a lawyer...but that doesn't translate to lots of money necessarily....I had to learn that inner strength...positive attitudes and dedication don't have a price tag but that "these things" will make you rich. Don't give up...listen to her and try to understand where it's coming from...I bet it's not the amount of money at all....good luck

First of all, sorry for the length but better to give you guys all the background.

 

My wife and I got married a little over a year ago after dating for two years. We're both in our 40s. It is the second marriage for me but for her it is her first one. I have two kids - 12 & 9 from a previous marriage.

 

We attended pre-marriage counseling together and while we discussed a log of issues there was one issue that could have been discussed more - money.

 

Before the facts - you will see somewhat large numbers here - please, I understand that we have it good, but keep in mind the issue that follows - I would really like your advice and thoughts.

 

Facts -

 

She makes approx $320k per year. I make approx $170k per year BUT have recently been told I'm being laid off at the end of the year so I am frantically attempting to find a new job.

 

She did not start working full time until about 6 years ago (she's a doctor) and I lost half of my savings in my divorce several years ago. Combined we have approx $750 in savings for retirement and $75k in rainy day savings. The rainy day fund has been funded by her. Retirement are approx 45/55 me/her.

 

I pay alimony (for about 1.5 more years) and in our pre-marriage counseling I was clear the one thing I would not give up was to continue paying for my kids Catholic education. She stated she would help with that.

 

After we got married we purchased our house. She put the downpayment on it. She has never owned a house before. Unfortunately it has been a lemon. Between water heaters, ice dams and leaky showers we've had to sink about $25k into it since we bought it. She has paid for 90% of it and still have not touched the rainy day fund. Due to my tight cash flow - I make 50% of all the payments along with her but cannot help out with major expenses until the alimony is off the books (I pay $2800/month).

 

We have little debt - just the mortgage, the alimony and her student loans (about $145k).

 

The kicker - I'm a finance director - and in my opinion - we're pretty darn lucky.

 

However, every time a major expense comes up or we want to spend money she goes into a funk. A serious funk. She says she's "tired" or "not feeling well". When the water heater broke she lost it for 3 days - hides in the basement. Finally I got her to talk about it. She's fearful that we won't have enough for retirement.

 

One day she showed up to dinner with my mom and the kids and was really peeved. Later that night she accused me of having my head in the sand when it comes to financial matters. Umm - I spend nothing on myself (have a 10 year old car) and basically all my money goes to the house, my kids, alimony and leftovers to spending time with my wife. She knew all this before she married me.

 

Just two days ago, I said that if I find a job I will use part of my severance (I',m getting six months) to go on a trek to base camp in Mt. Everest with some friends. Total cost approx $4000. The rest we can use to save for rainy funds. She's been in a funk for three days.

 

I created a spreadsheet showing her that at our current rate we'll have $7-8 million (yes, million) for retirement. She says it is not enough - no merit for that statement. Heck, a million is enough for me. SHe's afraid that there will be doomsday and we need money to live.

 

She states her fear is from her childhood when her parents had no money. They are fine now.

 

Also, I realize that things are said with emotions instead our brains sometimes but one thing she said last July stuck with me - when she went into a funk for a day (while on vacation visiting her mother with myself and my kids), she stated - "I won't spend any money unless I get a personal benefit, so I refuse to pay for your kids' education.".

 

Hmm - I never asked her once to do that - my kids are my responsibility - not hers. I've been clear about that. I was stupid enough to mention a fight I had with my ex wife where by she (ex) stated - "maybe your new wife will help pay for education". However, my current wife has a habit of saying "I can help" but when it comes time it is "no".

 

I understand separate finances in blended marriages. I get all that. But I am at my wits end on what to try. It seems like every few weeks she goes into a funk and she's rude, ignores us and always seems to happen when my kids are around so it makes it even more stressful.

 

Thoughts?

 

Please ask any questions.

 

Thank you!

[beach]

Sorry has no value when her actions don't change.

 

For me, is rather not have the person say sorry at all. I'll take changed behavior or change in the way they participate over empty words any day.

 

You need to decide if this is a deal breaker.

 

If she's not willing to work on her deficiencies then you need to assess whether it's worth staying.

 

Your kids should not be subjected to that kind of nasty attitude/anger.

 

They will grow up thinking this is what a "normal" relationship looks like. They may even choose a mate in their adult life that engages in their own relationship with that kind of chaos.

[marriedagain]

She went and slept in the basement last night. Woke up this morning and just said "I'm going outside to bag leaves". No "good morning" nothing. I asked her what the problem is and she said "what do you mean problem". I said "where have you been living all week?" Her reply "I'm just a little off this week".

 

Im taking my kids to church

 

Wow. Just wowo.

[CarrieT]

Sleeping in the basement is more than "just a little off."

 

I'm sorry she can't see that and that you are having to deal with this.

[beach]

So what's your plan? Has this been the way she deals with conflict in the past? Has she always acted like a spoiled brat?

 

If you don't address this now she's going to get the idea that she can behave this way often and not have any consequences.

 

At a minimum she she be expected to sit down with you and talk about how she feels and have you listen to her concerns. Then she should be willing to hear your concerns. Then both come up with a plan on how to proceed with a more productive goal/compromise moving forward.

 

The way she's acting is just full of anger and fear. But more importantly the way she's treating you is terribly mean and passive aggressive. IF she incapable of telling you she could write it out on paper so you know exactly what's bothering her. But it's important that she know that you are not a mind reader and it's her responsibility to communicate with you. Most importantly it's terribly wrong and detrimental that your kids see her acting this way and should not be tolerated.

 

Ignoring it won't make it better.

 

Rewarding bad behavior is certain to make it worse.

 

 

She may need to get afraid that she may lose you if her bad behavior continues. What can you offer to the situation that allows her to fully under that you are not okay with it this way?

 

The bottom line is she acts like she doesn't respect you. You need to take charge of the situation and allow her to fully understand the way she's treating you is unacceptable and must be changed or she leaves.

 

Like a little kid - without severe consequences she's unlikely to change a thing. Stop allowing it. Be firm with her without raising your voice.

[marriedagain]

Beach - thanks. Funny thing - my counselor used the same words you used - "spoiled brat". For a 45 yr old woman she is acting like a teenager.

 

I don't want to threaten. But I do plan to have a firm conversation with her tonight. I plan to take my kids back to their mother at 4:30 (just over 5 hrs). I've already told her exactly how I felt yesterday - I've tried to make her at ease. She's putting all these fears and now anger on herself and because of that she retaliates at me.

 

Tonight - it is simple - I have to stand up for my kids. She tells me she loves them and cares for them. But her way of showing it is poor. I'm not talking about money. She won't even go do things with us. I've learned her priorities - money, money, money, her career, her patients, her workout (she goes a lot), then maybe, just maybe, I come.

 

This weekend has been rude, disrespectful and just absurd. She has not insulted or yelled but her actions of removing herself completely are actually worse. passive/aggressive is correct.

 

Aside from that - consequences - I'm not threatening to leave - that's not me. But, I will tell her simply if she treats me as if not even around, and value me for money, then I will may do the same. I will also expect (not ask) that she buck up and behave differently for my kids. They didn't go through a hellish divorce then fall in love with this woman just to see this on a daily basis. It has been since Tuesday for God's sake!

 

This sucks - I seriously thought about getting some xanax to help with my nerves. Ugh

[beach]

So you think a simple conversation with no consequences laid out will suddenly make her be a decent person? Not likely.

 

 

If nothing changes then nothing changes.

 

Change is up to you. If you find the way she's participating completely unacceptable then what's the consequence for her bad behavior? If there's none - she's most likely to keep doing things the same.

 

Have you two had intensive counseling? Have you suggested she go?

 

I agree, it's extremely harmful to you and your kids to be treated this way. But if she plans to treat you this way what is your plan if she never changes?

[Raena]

I felt sick just looking at the amount of money the two of you make. I'm a single parent not even making a third of that amount (ok, I did the math, I make 10% of what you two have together). My electric is about to be shut off, my cable too and winter is coming. I have NO savings, very little into retirement (although I'm going to look into it as soon as I can get things straight financially), no money saved for my son's future and my ex isn't paying child support as he just lost HIS job. I live paycheck to paycheck and at this point, I'm worrying about whether or not my car will get repossessed because I can't make my car payment for another two weeks (unless I choose to pay that bill rather than buy food for us). I don't qualify for welfare but I barely make enough to get by and a vast majority of the reason why is because I got left taking care of a house I can't afford on my salary when my ex left. But, I have a master's degree and I work in a professional field so my worries will subside when I can get out of this house but I will NEVER be as well off as either of you.

 

Your wife (and you) make that much money and have that much in savings and she's freaking out about a water heater, sulking in the basement for 3 days? Let her come be in MY shoes for a year and then tell me how sad and depressed she is?

 

I don't feel the slightest bit sorry for her... she makes more alone than the vast majority of people do. She needs to quit acting like a baby about it all and realize that she is much farther ahead than most people are. It's all about perspective.

[beach]

You better decide where your boundary is... And state what consequences happen if she crosses the line again. Sorry isn't early enough!

 

It should be a boundary for you and for your kids. One that keeps you happy, healthy and safe.

 

Write out what that looks like for you. If she can't abide by it then it's never going to be a healthy relationship.

 

Are you prepared to leave IF she's unwilling to change her behavior?

[marriedagain]

Raena - trust me - I just said those same words to her yesterday - it only makes it worse.

[newmoon]

a woman of her education and earnings can't respect a guy who makes less. that's the truth of it. whether she admits it or not she would probably feel significantly better if you were earning equal or more to her. her stress likely comes from her childhood to some degree, her own issues/habits with money, and the thoughts that will go through her mind about whether you can pull your weight or whether she's going to have to do it for you when you are laid off. there is probably a lot she will never voice, but feels.