Never Trust An Addict - True or False?

[beach]

How is Lucy related to you?

 

 

And why did Lucy's sister have 150 xanax on her? That is a LOT! Does her sister have an addiction problem too?

[acrosstheuniverse]

Thank you acrosstheuniverse.

 

Wow it really hit home. But as tears stream down my face, I can't, I just can't let her go. I love her so much, it kills me inside. I feel she has been abandoned her whole life and I just, can't.

 

She sacrificed so much for me when I was growing up and I've had my share of difficulties being raised in the environment I was in, if I had a child like me, I would have probably already been dead.

 

So there have been a couple more turbulent instances after being around Lucy where she backed me into a corner, it seems like she was "raging" got up close to me and I put my hands in front of me and told her to back away. She cornered me again later that evening but I was able to keep it from spiraling out of control. I'm spending time with friends this weekend so it will give me some distance.

 

This morning I had a heart to heart with Lucy and I basically just hugged her and told her I loved her. She hugged me back and we had a very nice conversation, talking about both our childhoods and things like that. So we're at a peaceful stage at the moment.

 

She is going back to inpatient, there is no other way around it. This must be done. I just need the strength to get through it and I feel I am managing it pretty well. I have little moments here and there where my chest hurts and tears pop out from my eyes but I quickly gather my composure and move on.

 

Thank you for taking the time to write all of that:love:. (and I like your profile pic )

 

You don't have to let her go sweetie. You can still be there for her, you can still be by her side, letting her know you love her. You just can't take control of her path to sobriety. Only she can do that. Hey, I didn't let my Mother go. Once I stopped trying to force her to treatment agencies and groups etc. I simply let myself 'be' with her. Spend time with her. Pop round and say hello without giving her a lecture or mentioning the twelve empty litre vodka bottles in the kitchen. Stopped trying to emotionally blackmail her into sobriety, told her that whatever she decided to do either way it was okay, because I knew she wasn't doing it to hurt me or my brother, and it was her own life to lead. Our final months were surprisingly peaceful in our relationship and when she died I felt that she had died with her daughter as her friend and ally, not her controlling parent figure trying to force her into things she wasn't ready for.

 

I don't think you're getting the message I'm trying to give you, you say that you can't give up on her and she's going back to an inpatient. It doesn't matter whether you want to keep trying to make her get clean or not, it won't make any difference. The choice is whether you want to exert all of your emotions and energy on something that simply won't work and risk damaging your relationship and your own life in the process. It's not simply a case of trying hard enough sometimes. I urge you so strongly to reconsider trying to force her into inpatient. It's not fair on Lucy when she's not ready and it's a space someone else could be taking who is ready. And it won't work.

[acrosstheuniverse]

I hate to say it but at this point, don't you see that none of this is for Lucy? It's for you because it makes you feel less upset and better if you feel you are having some control over the situation instead of letting go. It's understandable, I've been there. But you've already provided so much support, it obviously hasn't worked because she is back where she is now, now it's time to let go and let Lucy make these choices herself. Because none of this benefits her, and you're putting her through it in order to feel better yourself. From what you said 'I can't do it, I'm not ready to let her go' it's obvious that you're letting your feelings about the situation guide what you think you should do, contrary to all of the evidence around how it has to be the addict themselves who are the ones to take charge of their own sobriety. I honestly get it and you're a selfless person to put yourself through this but please, try and get to some Narc Anon meetings and discuss this before committing to pushing Lucy into inpatient rehab.

[Divasu]

Thank you both for your replies.

 

The fact of the matter is, my mother is sick, if she had cancer or some other disease, I would be there to help her just the same.

 

I am upset because my mother is suffering and I am powerless to "save" her. I know I cannot "save" her from herself, that is up to her. I am upset because yes, it is effecting my emotional well being. My belief for recovery to be successful, she has to be committed to it first and foremost, but the entire family also has to be committed to it. I am committed to providing her a safe environment, and that CHOICE WILL be provided to her. She either accepts it, or not. If she doesn't accept it, then there will be consequences.

 

While you may say "it hasn't worked", well it DID work, for a time. She has relapsed, but relapse to me, does not equal all hope is gone. I don't expect someone who has suffered from depression and anxiety for decades left untreated all those years to get better overnight, let alone in a couple of years. My mother deserves help, the tools for her to work with to get to a better place, and that is what she will be given.

[beach]

Of course she deserves help.

 

 

Unfortunately, help doesn't work until she gets desperate enough to change herself.

 

As a gal that's been sober for more than 6 years I can tell you that it's up to her to decide when she's sick of herself enough to decide to change everything.

 

It hurts to see you feel that her sobriety is YOUR responsibility - it's not.

 

The less you DO - the more it falls to HER ( where it belongs).

 

Often when I speak to al anon groups I say the more you DO the more the drinker/addict resents you.

 

She may fall or stumble but in that she will begin to learn what does and doesn't work for HER - that is part of the process.

 

 

And if she isn't addressing the pain that caused the using then she's likely to use again. So it's up to her to sift through that pike of crap too - hopefully... So she doesn't have a "reason" to get numb.

 

She's angry with you but stop giving her more reasons to be angrier. You can't make her do this. Going to battle with this disease is a war you will never win. Let go and let God do for her. You are not God - you are standing in her way of finding that strength that she needs to find within.

 

Step away and allow things to unfold as they are supposed to. Trust that there is a plan and you don't need to know what the plan is.

 

I say all of this with compassion for both of you.

[Divasu]

Thank you.

 

And good on both of you for overcoming such hardship.

 

What worked for you, does not necessarily work for everyone, the underlying causes are different. The sad fact of the matter is, relapsing is part of the journey. Yes I, and my siblings, will step away.

 

But THIS family will support one another. THIS family will also invest in ourselves independently. I've reached out for support, for ME, and will continue to.

[beach]

Thank you.

 

And good on both of you for overcoming such hardship.

 

What worked for you, does not necessarily work for everyone, the underlying causes are different. The sad fact of the matter is, relapsing is part of the journey. Yes I, and my siblings, will step away.

 

But THIS family will support one another. THIS family will also invest in ourselves independently. I've reached out for support, for ME, and will continue to.

 

This is good to hear!

 

What does that look like for you? Do you know exactly where your healthy boundary is?

 

Do you know where you end and she begins? Where's that line in the sand?

 

What's hers is hers - and what's yours is yours to deal with.

 

If needed - it's useful to say often enough to stay sane "that's for YOU to DO, not me".

 

Hugs

[beach]

My sponsees that have shown the strongest recovery had no family intervening during their recovery. It was ALL up to them to do the work necessary to get well and stay well.

 

The ones who had family meddling and stirring the pot ALL struggled to get well and never stayed well.

 

Can you see how my experience skews my perception about the ones who recover?

 

 

It appears from my experience that when family thinks it's THEIR responsibility more than the drinker/addict to DO IT FOR THEM the one who is sick relies on THEM to do the work - and thus, the user doesn't ever get well.

 

I told my family "you can't DO this FOR me - it's something I MUST DO on my own IF I am to get well."

 

When they backed off and allowed me the grace and dignity and respect to do what was best for myself - that's when I had the room to DO what was necessary to find a way that worked FOR ME.

[Divasu]

Thanks Beach for sharing your insight/experience.

 

I told my family "you can't DO this FOR me - it's something I MUST DO on my own IF I am to get well."

 

I have a question regarding the statement above. If you don't mind me asking, when/how did you reach that pivotal point?

[beach]

Thanks Beach for sharing your insight/experience.

 

 

 

I have a question regarding the statement above. If you don't mind me asking, when/how did you reach that pivotal point?

 

When my large family kept bugging me every day all day long about my recovery.

 

I'd been working hard with a great trauma counselor who taught me how to speak up! How to have a voice and how to speak my truth.

 

How to respect myself - how to trust my gut and myself - and how to train others how to treat me.

 

Treating me as a child who had no voice wasn't working for me!

 

I learned how to respect myself and to act accordingly. I learned about healthy balance.

 

I learned to be perfectly clear with my words and actions in alignment.

 

Those two books helped a LOT - changed my life, seriously!

[Divasu]

Thank you for responding to my question.

 

So, based on what you said, would you say their partial intervention was somewhat effective/helpful?

 

When my large family kept bugging me every day all day long about my recovery.

[beach]

No, it was hurtful. It sent me a clear message that they didn't believe in me to do what I needed to do - even though I was by that time clearly doing everything in my power to stay sober.

 

Yes, the talk they had with me BEFORE I went to rehab was helpful.

 

But since I've been and IF I ever need that kind of help again - I have a plan that takes the burden off of my family as they did bear most of that burden with worry that time. It's out of respect for them and for me.

 

What was her relapse plan when she left rehab that first time? They usually won't allow you to check out until a solid plan is set up.

 

On a side note not everyone relapses. But success rate is extremely low compared to many decades ago - but also there's many more drugs available now too.

 

 

Did she write out her relapse plan last time she checked out? It should be with her discharge papers.

[Divasu]

No, it was hurtful. It sent me a clear message that they didn't believe in me to do what I needed to do - even though I was by that time clearly doing everything in my power to stay sober.

 

Yes, the talk they had with me BEFORE I went to rehab was helpful.

 

But since I've been and IF I ever need that kind of help again - I have a plan that takes the burden off of my family as they did bear most of that burden with worry that time. It's out of respect for them and for me.

 

What was her relapse plan when she left rehab that first time? They usually won't allow you to check out until a solid plan is set up.

 

On a side note not everyone relapses. But success rate is extremely low compared to many decades ago - but also there's many more drugs available now too.

 

 

Did she write out her relapse plan last time she checked out? It should be with her discharge papers.

 

I'm sorry it was hurtful Beach.

 

In response to your question, she was in rehab for around 2-3 months the first time. When she was discharged, she attended an outpatient program several times per week initially, which dropped down to 1-2x per week after the 1st year. Throughout this time, she was prescribed Klonopin. This plan was discussed and worked out between my mother, and her inpatient team and coordinated with the outpatient program. And, my mother went willingly during this time, scheduled her own appointments and kept to them.

 

Our family was involved, partially, moreso on an informational basis. At the time, I did not understand why she was prescribed another benzodiazapine. I spoke briefly with her doctors, was told it's "normal" and that was that.

 

Her outpatient program duration was about 2 1/2 years, during which, I now "presume" the prescribing doctor worked out a plan with my mother (that I was not a part of), to taper her off Klonopin completely. That's when, the trouble began (the missing Xanax, the Xanax prescription finagled from the General Practitioner's Nurse Practitioner, etc.).

 

The good news is, after a family discussion was had today with a bit of "turbulence", my mother seems receptive/open to further treatment and will attend the inpatient interview scheduled for tomorrow. We talked a bit, enjoyed some quiet time together, and tomorrow is a new day.

Edited November 3, 2014 by Divasu
Edit: Timeline

[acrosstheuniverse]

Thank you both for your replies.

 

The fact of the matter is, my mother is sick, if she had cancer or some other disease, I would be there to help her just the same.

 

I am upset because my mother is suffering and I am powerless to "save" her. I know I cannot "save" her from herself, that is up to her. I am upset because yes, it is effecting my emotional well being. My belief for recovery to be successful, she has to be committed to it first and foremost, but the entire family also has to be committed to it. I am committed to providing her a safe environment, and that CHOICE WILL be provided to her. She either accepts it, or not. If she doesn't accept it, then there will be consequences.

 

Hey, I'm just curious, when you say that she will have the choice given to her, are you saying that you're now going to offer inpatient to her but not try and force her into it? What are the consequences to be if she declines?

 

Also I was thinking about you over the past day or so and had one last question for you, which I thought vaguely relevant but feel free to dismiss it:

 

If your Mother wasn't suffering from addiction, but instead cancer, she knew all of the risks ahead, she knew how to get better (accept chemo) and the success rate (low) and she said to you all that she wanted to decline treatment and let the illness run its course because for whatever reason, her own, and therefore valid reasons, she didn't want to put herself through that: would you be able to accept her decision?

 

I thought of that myself when my Mother tried to kill herself part way through her addiction... well, she never went through with it, but she was definitely strongly considering it, she got a bus to the bridge and stood there and because the tide was out she realised she'd just fall into mud and she didn't want to die slowly. I realised in that moment that her life was hers to live alone, and just because she's my Mother and I came from her, I didn't necessarily have a say in what she chose to do now that her kids were adults, she's an adult etc. I felt able to tell her that although I hoped very much to keep her around because I loved her to bits, if that's what she someday decided to do she shouldn't feel guilty for me or my brother because she has her own life to lead and decisions to make, and that I'd understand.

 

Refusing treatment is a similar thing in my eyes. She got offered a place at inpatient treatment actually (which is few and far between in the UK!), but when they called her to tell her it was ready she backed out and said it didn't matter. I didn't know any of this had gone on, a month or two later I just happened to ask how the waiting list was going and she told me (or a doctor did when I was there, I can't remember) that she had backed out because she was too scared. It was frustrating yes, but again, it was her personal responsibility to make that choice.

 

It's not me or you that has to go through the journey of getting clean, do all of the hard work and face the terror of what life will be like afterwards with a clear head and all of the same problems to face as before and all of the feelings to sort through without the warm fuzzy blanket of Xanax or Alcohol.

 

I wish you all the best, it's good to see that your Mom is at least open to further treatment ideas, however I hate to be a negative nancy but in my experience of working with addicts, many will understandably just start lying and saying all of the right words to get their pesky meddling family and friends off their back and to shut up and leave them alone. So while I used to take my Mother's proclamations of being ready to change as being hallejulah moments, I got to realise that only time and watching her actions would give any insight into how she was truly feeling and her level of motivation.

 

On December 23 it'll be four years since she died, and I can honestly say I haven't for a minute regretted the things I tried to do to help her get clean and sober (she also had an addiction to over the counter weak opiate painkillers btw, to the extent she used to beg her partner to sneak them into hospital when she was hospitalised), but I'm glad in the end that I was able to focus my energies on loving and supporting her as she headed towards the end rather than fighting it tooth and nail every second when it clearly wasn't going to do a thing. On the day I'll be settling down to finally getting around to watching her favourite film in the world (Great Expectations), listening to some Rachmaninoff and Motown for her and having a look at my favourite photos of her.

 

I'm sure you'll agree, however much our Mother's addictions have taken from us, as people they have given us so much more. And years after she died it's those gifts she gave me that come to mind easily, and the problems caused by the addiction that are more difficult to bring to mind.

 

Best of luck <3

[beach]

Did you locate her prior relapse plan? She must have had one.

 

And my next suggestion is - make it perfectly clear when she enters the inpatient program that she needs to line up a solid plan to live somewhere else when she gets released.

 

That way the facility will find a place for her when she gets out and you won't have the situation of her living with you.

 

Since it didn't work last time there's no reason to do it that way ever again. A program of recovery is designed to invoke change for her life.

 

So I recommend that nothing be the same moving forward.

[Hope Shimmers]

These are some of the best and most invaluable posts that I have EVER read on this forum, from beach and acrosstheuniverse.

 

Just an incredible thread with you two posting. Everyone who is dealing with this in their lives should have the opportunity to read this. Unfortunately most won't have that opportunity. OP, please listen to them - they are so right IMO and they both speak from experience. There is no better voice.

 

And just as an aside, I'm a little concerned that there were 150 alprazolam tablets for your mom to steal from your sister. It is pretty unusual for someone to have that quantity of Xanax in their possession except in rare instances, as most pharmacies won't fill for more than 30 at a time (at most). Are you sure your sister is not in a similar situation of abuse?

[acrosstheuniverse]

These are some of the best and most invaluable posts that I have EVER read on this forum, from beach and acrosstheuniverse.

 

Just an incredible thread with you two posting. Everyone who is dealing with this in their lives should have the opportunity to read this. Unfortunately most won't have that opportunity. OP, please listen to them - they are so right IMO and they both speak from experience. There is no better voice.

 

And just as an aside, I'm a little concerned that there were 150 alprazolam tablets for your mom to steal from your sister. It is pretty unusual for someone to have that quantity of Xanax in their possession except in rare instances, as most pharmacies won't fill for more than 30 at a time (at most). Are you sure your sister is not in a similar situation of abuse?

 

Thank you, that's one of the nicest compliments ever. Not to derail thread, but I really really appreciate it.

 

When I was losing my Mom and trying to help her I had a friend, twenty years older than me and now an absolute best friend I've been through so much with, both on his and my side, who had a father who had some similar issues. I remember him telling me that I couldn't help her and me thinking I could. It's a process I think most people go through. He came to visit her with me in hospital towards the end (but before it was critical, so she really could have gone another year, another few years, there was no template) and he turned to me on the way out gave me a huge hug (unusual for us) and looked me in the eye and said 'you know that she's going to die, right?' and I remember feeling kinda shocked and like... but is she? How can you know? He knew, and within a month she had gone.

 

But every situation is different, every family is different, maybe the poster's Mom isn't quite in that situation yet. I think the waiting around for something bad to happen was the worst part, once she was gone I was heartbroken but at least I wasn't anticipating it any more, not knowing if it was going to be later that month or in five years time!

 

But yes, I did learn that lesson. That you can never change someone else's behaviour. You can lead a horse to water etc. It's an important life lesson to learn and I wish it'd come under different circumstances but it has really enabled me to let go of a lot of stuff I was carrying around and I think set me up for how I relate to people in the future. Especially as I tend to be a little bit of a control freak usually!

[Hope Shimmers]

You are welcome. You have great insight. I'm sorry for what you had to go through to get there. I'm really sorry about your mom - I can't even imagine how hard that must have been.

[beach]

Wow Hope - thank you.

 

I'm touched. And you know that's saying a lot.

 

Hope her Mom gets admitted soon and a plan is devised to have Mom take responsibility for her own actions/self.

 

My suggestion - do not allow Mom to come live with you again. That route has been explored and didn't work. Only try NEW things to see if she allows change to become part of the way she lives!

 

If nothing changes then nothing changes!

[Divasu]

Hey, I'm just curious, when you say that she will have the choice given to her, are you saying that you're now going to offer inpatient to her but not try and force her into it? What are the consequences to be if she declines?

 

Without going into too many details, I've communicated as such that if she continues abusing Xanax, her options are living on her own with no financial support for her healthcare (me and my family contribute to help pay her deductibles)/help with housing, or, we will have her involuntarily committed (which I've looked into and believe is now viable).

 

Also I was thinking about you over the past day or so and had one last question for you, which I thought vaguely relevant but feel free to dismiss it:

 

If your Mother wasn't suffering from addiction, but instead cancer, she knew all of the risks ahead, she knew how to get better (accept chemo) and the success rate (low) and she said to you all that she wanted to decline treatment and let the illness run its course because for whatever reason, her own, and therefore valid reasons, she didn't want to put herself through that: would you be able to accept her decision?

 

Thanks for thinking about me. In response to your question, I guess, she would die. The difference I see here, is that the underlying anxiety and depression that led up to the addiction is treatable and manageable, without an automatic and/or implied death wish.

 

Your story is sad, I'm sorry that you had to go through that. I see where you're coming from. If my mother told me, "let me die, I want to die", well maybe I'd feel differently. What I saw was a cry for help, and, help is what she will be given. If she wants me "out of her life", well, all she has to do is say the word and I'll be gone.

 

I wish you all the best, it's good to see that your Mom is at least open to further treatment ideas, however I hate to be a negative nancy but in my experience of working with addicts, many will understandably just start lying and saying all of the right words to get their pesky meddling family and friends off their back and to shut up and leave them alone. So while I used to take my Mother's proclamations of being ready to change as being hallejulah moments, I got to realise that only time and watching her actions would give any insight into how she was truly feeling and her level of motivation.

 

Thanks. I know she'll probably fight me along the way. I expect it. She's been reminded of the repercussions, and, she's been given a small set of choices of which road she wants to go down. So until then, I have my own stuff to do/tend to. Thank you again for checking in and all your kind words and support.

[Divasu]

Did you locate her prior relapse plan? She must have had one.

 

And my next suggestion is - make it perfectly clear when she enters the inpatient program that she needs to line up a solid plan to live somewhere else when she gets released.

 

That way the facility will find a place for her when she gets out and you won't have the situation of her living with you.

 

Since it didn't work last time there's no reason to do it that way ever again. A program of recovery is designed to invoke change for her life.

 

So I recommend that nothing be the same moving forward.

 

Thanks. Yes, I have it. And your other suggestion, agreed. One step at a time, but the clock is in fact ticking.

[Divasu]

And just as an aside, I'm a little concerned that there were 150 alprazolam tablets for your mom to steal from your sister. It is pretty unusual for someone to have that quantity of Xanax in their possession except in rare instances, as most pharmacies won't fill for more than 30 at a time (at most). Are you sure your sister is not in a similar situation of abuse?

 

My mom's sister is not addicted, as far as I know. I feel very confident in that. She is independent, manages quite well on her own. And based on our conversations, they are logical and rational, unlike my mother.

 

Mom's sister has all her medications sent by mail. The Xanax specifically, I believe is sent in a qty. of 90 every three months. So, 150 out of 180 went missing.

[beach]

What were the specifics in her relapse plan/agreement she outlined?

[Divasu]

What were the specifics in her relapse plan/agreement she outlined?

 

Hi Beach.

 

Her discharge papers outlined:

 

-Follow-Up Appointment (Inpatient)

-Follow-Up Appointment (Outpatient)

-Additional Appointments (Medical/General)

-Educational Criteria: Substance Abuse, Medication, Diagnosis, ADL's, Living

Skills, Nutrition/Food-Drug Interaction

-Primary Diagnosis: Depression/Substance Dependence

 

I also have an Initial Recovery Plan and the list of medications that were temporarily prescribed upon discharge but that's marked confidential information. Thanks!

[beach]

Oh... I was referring to her specific plan if/when she started using again = relapse.

 

There's usually a plan outlining what is to take place if/when it happens... An agreement the user makes when/while they are more clear minded = discharging from inpatient care.

 

A plan of sorts that's set up ahead of time "just in case".

 

 

 

And I see so many contradictions in your last paragraph! I don't even know what to say! The idea if rehab is to get a person sober (unaltered).

Edited November 5, 2014 by beach