NC breach. Shields were down, hull damaged.

[compulsivedancer]

She obviously thinks it's funny...

 

H made a humorous comment. He's a stubborn guy and certainly not a doormat. I thought his characterization of the ultimate doormat was pretty cute.

[Try]

-three weeks ago, she intentionally sought him out to give him a letter. She meets him at work, he won't acknowledge her (kudos to him). She pursues him as he tries to exit the scenario, and he tells her she's got 60 seconds to say whatever, then go. He's not comfortable talking to her. She leaves him a letter on his truck, since he won't take it.

She swears she 'needed to for closure'. That she 'never got to say goodbye'. That 'her views and positions (presumably not sexual positions for him this time around) have changed,' that she 'needed to let him know'.

Bonus frustration, requiring even MORE faith in a self-absorbed liar: She wrote, printed, and deleted the file of this letter at work, so I will never know what it actually said.

Wow, the total lack of respect for you by her actions is mind boggling. She is not over him, and she would go back to him if he ever decides that he wants her again. She wanted him but not you to know this, so that is why she wrote from her heart a letter to him that she does not want you to read, but rest assured she has a hidden copy that you will never see. Do not have a child with her. You are now and always will be her plan B; are you OK with living the rest of your life with a wife that feels that way about you?

[beach]

H made a humorous comment. He's a stubborn guy and certainly not a doormat. I thought his characterization of the ultimate doormat was pretty cute.

 

Nothing about him looking like your doormat is cute CD.

[twosadthings]

Musician,

 

 

You're acting as if she was some LoveShack newbie that will be brought up short by the responses of the posters here. She has over 1,000 posts and never will get it. When will you get it?

 

 

Just sayin',

 

 

Twosadthings

[2sunny]

Since there's been about 25% effort by the one who cheated (CD) and 100% continuous "understanding" from you, the betrayed, she still isn't considering how she's hurt you. And now she continues to hurt you even more.

 

It's more than 1-1/2 years that have passed and she isn't repairing the damage she's caused - she keeps causing more.

 

Since she won't change (she's had enough time to show evidence of change) I can't see why you want to stay with a woman that's still pining after her OM and your previous best friend.

 

She just hasn't been kind to you at all. Nothing about her behavior shows she loves you. It shows she only loves herself.

[katielee]

yep, loves' pretty much an action verb...

[merrmeade]

Nobody's working on the marriage. Nobody's communicating. Nobody's working on themselves. Just meaningless, enabling LS banter. Just what do they feel anyway?

[Spark1111]

Velvette, you bring up an interesting point.* I've never really thought about it before! That's my.. centered? tone, mentally.

 

As I write, my thoughts get restructured, my mind tries to work out details in a sort of assumed logic. A sort of itemizing, removed process. Never thought of it in that way. Interesting.

 

You're also right about having my own issues (don't we all). I've learned a lot more about myself (with each passing day.. see above! Lol)

Conflict avoidance was a big one of mine (a certain irony of everyone deferring to me as a leader figure).

 

 

I'm pretty sure CD is telling the truth about the letter. She'd shown me a number of goodbye letters that she'd written as a private exercise in closure, waaay back. They were angry, hurt, judgmental. They were self therapy.

 

When she told me she gave him one like it, I didn't care to read it first, because, as was pointed out, -It doesn't matter what they say-. The issue is bigger here.

 

But yea, I would've liked the last piece of mind to check.

 

My wife is a person who yearns to be understood (necessary or not), and in her head, she would somehow believe this would bring closure.

 

We're all generally in agreement. Breaching NC is a bad move.

 

I think, however, this is dumb at best, disrespectful at worst. Misguided, not thought through. Deceitful, but I don't think malicious. Naive, perhaps even desperate.

 

She doesn't want a response, it's not the function.

 

But her foolishness is her lack long-game planning. She doesn't think of it in those terms. She doesn't consider the leap of faith it will require for me to believe it. The obvious built in conflict.

No, true to form, she thinks of her needs first.

 

She gets incredibly frustrated with herself every time there's anything affair triggering. She reminds herself how stupid she was, what a terrible wife she's been, some of the more stinging barbs she got posting on LS. She regrets being the person who ruined the longtime friendship of some she loves.

 

She does desperately want kids, has for years, and she's even more pissed at herself for having potentially destroyed those chances. She has very real anxiety issues (which I'm sure NONE OF YOU could glean from her thousand posts), and very few friends (and no really close friends).

 

So when she tries to give him the letter (Douche is terrified about social judgement, there's no way he'd remotely want to be seen in public with her, let alone accepting anything), she's made a totem out of this. She's wanting some kind of way to feel better about herself and move past.

 

You guys, she's -bad- at lying. Baaad. She's pretty literal, good with concepts, bad with actually fleshing them out. Terrible memory. She's not the type of person with smooth, subtle body language.

 

Everyone suspected the affair. I naively clung to bro code standards until I finally let myself see the writing on the wall. Everyone just trusts my judgement of character and social awareness, so they figured I either knew something they didn't or had a handle on it.

 

So, I write without hesitation when I say I'm confident that letter wasn't an inviting one.

 

When I asked her what she was going to do if he replied, she said it wasn't that kind of thing. I asked "but what if he does anyway?" she blanked like the thought had never occurred to her. Long game problem.

 

You can openly get a sense of her thinking from her countless posts.

 

I'm not concerned about the affair restarting, I -am- concerned about the roots of her cost/benefit analysis of this act. The core of her expectation of outcome.

 

Now, the question as it was originally posed:

 

'What are you thinking of doing?'

 

Followed by 'How many more chances will she get?'

 

Related and separate all the same.

 

Right now? I think. I let my thoughts run their courses.

 

The reality is that I love her. She makes bad choices, and she's got some issues.

 

We got married young, and we've been in a kind of roommate-like relationship, through our almost decade together. Like good friends who have sex. We've hardly dated, and part of the reason we got married was she was the first woman I ever really clicked with.

 

We have a very practical, analytical approach to things (surely you jest!), and ultimately, life's been pretty good. We're getting pretty good at this teamwork/living thing. We're great buddies, and we're unsure what a lifetime of relationship really means.

 

I'm a workaholic, and with her validation issues (and lack of close friends)... it provides its own tension.

Music is my first mistress. Perhaps there's a permanent imbalance here for us as people.

 

She's building a support system of friends.. but those types of things take time... to open up, confide, have faith in another's judgments/opinions/intentions.

 

Again regarding babies: I know -many- people who think having children will fill holes of unhappiness within themselves. I think there's certainly an element of that at play. I don't advocate it as a psychological band-aid, but that doesn't make it any less compelling for someone who's looking for healing (her, not me.. just for clarity).

 

We take it a day at a time, and most days, things are pretty damn good.

 

But today carries a frustrated sigh as I stroke my chin.

 

So, yea. What do I do? Right now, I think.

 

Man, you are so over-analyzing her actions. You very well may be right, BUT WHO cares??????????

 

She is NOT lifelong partner material FOR YOU.

 

She does NOT respect you ENOUGH to not contact your Former BF that she had an affair with.

 

THAT is ALL you need to know......UNLESS this affair bestowed drama into your life that is making you both feel more alive.....

 

In that case join a gym and a dating site and an art class.

 

Successfully reconciled many years now....This is a total deal BREAKER ANd I am beginning to wonder if, in keeping the affair alive and in the forefront, this is bringing passion and drama to an already dead relationship...as does wanting a baby to save the relationship....IT HAPPENS.

 

IT IS NOT HEALTHY and will die of natural causes 4 or 5years from now.

 

It's on life support now. recognize it today, not 5 years and a baby from now.

 

Move on man. I mean it!

[SawtoothMars]

Lol. Trying to imagine what the world's most awesome doormat looks like. Self-cleaning plush? Rigid, traction cleaning design?

Bold or muted colors?

 

Ha!

 

You avoided addressing the main point.

 

H made a humorous comment. He's a stubborn guy and certainly not a doormat. I thought his characterization of the ultimate doormat was pretty cute.

 

Yes, it was clever and witty.

[HereNorThere]

Lol. Trying to imagine what the world's most awesome doormat looks like. Self-cleaning plush? Rigid, traction cleaning design?

Bold or muted colors?

 

I imagine the doormat playing an instrument while an 800 pound gorilla compulsively dances and simultaneously has sex with my best friend on top.

 

You know, for closure and all.

[bigman1]

CM, I find your situation disturbing. While your status of betrayed gets you somewhat canonized, your combined issues seem to run kind of deep. Your wife is a mess. I told her as much earlier.

 

The situation that you describe as your marriage was really not healthy. It sounds like what you had, pre-A was not really good. Co-existing is not a marriage. Peaceful co-existence with a little sex thrown in is not a good marriage. That is the simple part.

 

The complicated part is how you each need help. As far as divorce, my position is that marriage is not a reward and divorce is not punishment. Each are decisions. Your wife is not capable of being satisfied with you or anyone until she gets herself fixed. You have your own set of issues. The fact that you were content with what you had, is not a good sign. In short, both of you need to get yourselves straight before you can decide to keep trying. As it stands now, both of you would be better off divorced as you each need to get fixed. Staying married is just a slow dance to failure unless you guys do some serious work.

[road]

In the year and a half (geez is that all?) that's passed since the affair, I have grown, developed, adapted as a person.

 

I am fundamentally the same, and substantially different. My outlook and goals, how I see myself in the world around me, and how I conceptualize human relations.. they've all kind of experienced paradigm shifts.

 

I still have my dark days, but they are spread out. Life has gone on in pretty wonderful ways overall. I still have moments where I ponder whether or not we will stay together, but it is now just as rooted in curiosity and adventure as it was in pain. The 'math' for desired life always works (by an ever changing margin) in CD's (Compulsive Dancer) favor.

 

I was on the way back from a gig, and over the course of the long drive home, I found myself in a dark spot. These happen, protocol seems to be: I become somewhat moody (usually only toward CD), I keep to myself and invariably life provides something ELSE to ponder (or I go to bed).

 

I've learned to recognize unhelpful thoughts, to see and emancipate myself from the negative feedback loops my mind so readily weaves.

 

Three nights ago, this dark spot in hardly any different than its predecessors.

 

Until CD informs me she broke NC three weeks ago.

 

Now a reminder for the kids at home keeping score (this saga is all laid out here on LS, for the curious backstory readers):

 

-January 29th, 2013 was D-Day. NC rules established (for presumably obvious reasons)

 

-sometime last fall, CD 'accidentally' runs into Douche. Total accident. You know, she just went to the place he works, during the hours he works there, to drop off some books (it's a library) and somehow, just UNFATHOMABLY, 'oops' they crossed paths. Man, if those libraries could only think of -some way- to acommodate book drops any time of day, this could've been avoided.

 

I feel the agenda is unambiguous here.

 

-she spend THE REST OF THE YEAR searching his name multiple times a day, on google, google plus, fb (him, his friends and family, anything to get a glimpse of him. Funny given he's not a notably attractive guy)... you know, only when shes bored and stuff..presumably my wife is easily bored.

 

-three weeks ago, she intentionally sought him out to give him a letter. She meets him at work, he won't acknowledge her (kudos to him). She pursues him as he tries to exit the scenario, and he tells her she's got 60 seconds to say whatever, then go. He's not comfortable talking to her. She leaves him a letter on his truck, since he won't take it.

 

 

So, I see that as 3 ever increasing, glaring breaches of NC.

 

She swears she 'needed to for closure'. That she 'never got to say goodbye'. That 'her views and positions (presumably not sexual positions for him this time around) have changed,' that she 'needed to let him know'.

 

Bonus frustration, requiring even MORE faith in a self-absorbed liar: She wrote, printed, and deleted the file of this letter at work, so I will never know what it actually said.

 

CD is pretty straightforward. She's (presumably out of guilty conscience) told me about NC breaches 1 and 3... granted weeks after the fact (actually, MONTHS after the 1st one). What she says feels and sounds true.

 

Her ego seemingly refuses to accept she was just a **** doll (even though that was their original agreement). For her, it needs to be more.

 

Her validation issues often place her (by her telling) at the center of thoughts, conversations, and event that are often tangentially related to her at best. To her credit, she's gotten better about this. But it's deep.

 

Ask her about the underlying 'why' of her actions ('why is this important', 'why do you think this will improve things', 'why are you still hung up on X, Y, Z'), and the response is almost always 'I don't know'.

 

CD is seeing a therapist, and in general, she's getting her life together. It's been pretty cool to watch it happen.

 

The affair served as a catalyst for both of us to evaluate everything, and outside of the relationship, everything is a LOT better.

 

Now pair ALL OF THIS with the fact she turned 30, is freaking out about her age, and the pressure of having kids is at a whole new level from her. At times like these, it can feel like its her way of trying to trap me.

 

I don't think it is unreasonable for me to feel rushed and uncomfortable with starting a family, given our current circumstances.

 

I suppose I'm just venting. I don't have people I can really vent to about these things. It would just make people hate her, and while that would seem inviting when I'm pissed, it wouldn't be helpful the REST of the time. I do not want to have to attack and defend for perspective to others. More anger doesn't make for more peace.

 

 

 

This is why the WS and BS must move far away from where the affair took place and the OM.

[oldshirt]

I haven't read all of this thread but just read a few of 'Dancer's posts on the other thread. Since that one is now closed I'll share my thoughts here.

 

If she has 'questions' and things she needs to get off her chest and "closure", That means she still has feelings and still has an emotional investment.

 

Going to his work is a very proactive and intentional act which required work and effort and involved a high degree of risk. That means she was highly motivated and had lots of forethought and planning.

 

She is still very invested in him.

 

Not a good sign.

 

This is basically a 4th down and 50 yard situation. No one would question you if you decide to punt.

[2sunny]

Be careful CM she could get pregnant and not tell you ahead of time that she's decided on that life changing decision as well.

 

It's interesting - you had a long friendship with that OM yet you didn't have that burning desire to get "closure" from him.

 

I think "closure" is just always a big fat excused designed to stir up more "feelings". And if she says it's not - she's lying...again.

[dichotomy]

Not looking forward to these posts in a few years when you try to explain to your toddler why mommy is seeing her lover, at the library, writing more letters, yet again ......but its okay cause she still " loves us".

 

Please avoid sharing this brokenness with a child.

[Try]

you had a long friendship with that OM yet you didn't have that burning desire to get "closure" from him.

That is because the OP is not in love with the other man (OM).

[beach]

CM do you stay because she pays your way?

[Blackknight]

I'll agree that this relationship is dysfunctional, but if there's nothing wrong with CD, why didn't she just leave him? There wasn't the complication of kids, or at that point anything financially hindering if I recall. So all these justifications for an A are really just reasons to leave, IMO. Just leave. Don't sleep with his friend and then act like there was no better alternative.

 

This is true but you also have to ask why doesn't he just leave her? She has crossed his line many times... And he is still staying.

[whichwayisup]

CD and I are splitting. (I'll be covering the $1500 a month mortgage/utilities of the house we bought on my 'piddly' income.)

 

*Life will continue. I'm in a REAL bad mood right now, and my face hurts from ****ing bawling all day (there's your masculinity jab opening, asshat).

 

I'm going to go crawl in a hole and die for a day or two while I lick my wounds

 

Real sorry to hear this and I feel for you both. It's painful and awful. Take care of you now and don't isolate. Reach out to someone close that you can trust and talk to.

 

You and CD, PM me anytime if you need to talk. Sucks her thread got shut down..

[thummper]

I'm so sorry, CM, I really am! I've pulled so hard for you two! Bless you both. I hope you can find happiness. My heart hurts.

[Blackknight]

Be sure to keep letting yourself greive the loss. If your wife really did make up all that stuff about you not spending tome with her or keeping your promise to bring in extra income remind yourself that letting go isn't the same as giving up. Don't give up on your life. If you really are all those wonderful things you say you are when you are whole and ready there will be a great gal waiting for you. You are young. Your story isn't over. Just one chapter done. Take care of yourself. Working out and eating healthy seem cliche to suggest but the really can help.

[SawtoothMars]

Realist, you pompous ****.

You ignorant asshat.

 

BTW, She's -never- been a meal ticket, and I've never given half a **** about money. Shame on anyone who loves with a dollar sign attached.

 

Regardless.

 

CD and I are splitting. (I'll be covering the $1500 a month mortgage/utilities of the house we bought on my 'piddly' income.)

*Life will continue. I'm in a REAL bad mood right now, and my face hurts from ****ing bawling all day (there's your masculinity jab opening, asshat).

I'm going to go crawl in a hole and die for a day or two while I lick my wounds.

 

Don't take internet trolls too serious.

 

I was getting on you about being a doormat... but only because I think you are being too passive. I want you to make your marriage work and be happy. Not so much by failing to be firm with your wife.... but in not fighting hard enough for her.

 

In regards to the money... it's stupid. My xWife bitched about me not making enough for years. Our mortgage was $4,000 a month and I made something like $9,000... and it wasn't enough to make her feel secure or to afford kids. Fact is that for some people... whatever you make is never enough.

[beach]

I was originally rooting for you two but not after these recent events by CD. I can understand your decision.

 

I hope you will take care. Stay busy and keep moving forward for your best interest.

 

And you have every right to be angry.

Edited October 22, 2014 by beach

[DKT3]

I've tried to stay off of this thread because I feel an odd personal connection which makes me feel awkward posting.

 

Lovin and I fought about this tonight and ended with her yelling at me "I'm not her, don't you dire compare me".

 

Now my point, after reading CD's thread I get the feeling she reached out to OM in a cowardly way of forcing your hand. I got from reading that she wanted out.

 

CM I think its wise to split, you can't save this by yourself. CD still has the same attitude that lead to the affair, kinda like I want what I want and I want it now. She has some growing to do, but you can't continue to be her whipping boy while she does it.

 

I feel for you both.

Edited October 22, 2014 by DKT3

[SawtoothMars]

Lovin and I fought about this tonight and ended with her yelling at me "I'm not her, don't you dire compare me".

 

Now my point, after reading CD's thread I get the feeling she reached out to OM in a cowardly way of forcing your hand. I got from reading that she wanted out.

 

I don't get that feeling at all. My take is that she has tons of built up resentment and a desperate need to feel the affair meant something.

 

I also think the emotional aspect of the affair began WAY before we have been lead to believe.