Should I call the woman that my husband says is just a friend?

[lynnspies1]

Thanks for all of your help it has made me stronger and less weepy. I have already called for counselling appointments and I think I am on my way.

 

He did just call and was very angry for "messing with his personal life and embarrassing him to his friend" he then said he would discontinue talking with this OW but that he was also going to make a lot of changes. I think that means he will move out but I will be OK either way.

 

Lynn

[Ladyjane14]

It definately looks like your husband is having an affair. I hate to say it, but even an emotional affair is a sexual affair. Let's face it, if he's hetersosexual, and in deep discussion with a same-sex friend, there wouldn't be a need for therapy.....And you wouldn't be posting here.

 

The first question you have to ask yourself is...exactly how much bullsh*t are you willing to put up with in order to save the marriage?

 

There are folks who will do ANYTHING, and there are folks who will do NOTHING. Personally, I was somewhere in the middle when faced with a similar situation.

 

If you're a person who wants to save the marriage at ALL costs, there are marriage-building plans to do that. Nothing is successful in every case, but it's an alternative to giving THE ULTIMATUM. The gist of the plan is that you represent yourself as an attractive alternative to involvement with the OW. You meet as many EN's (emotional needs) as you can, and in effect put OW out of business.

 

The down-side to this plan is that the affair is very addictive, and the WS (wayward spouse) will do almost anything to keep his junkie-fix going. He'll certainly lie and sneak. His main purpose in life at this point is to get away from the wife, and explore the new relationship. And make no mistake....he wants to keep his options open if at all possible. He'd like nothing better than to keep both Wife and OW happy enough to let him do that. He'll put you through absolute hell before you get done.

 

Because "the plan" calls for some limited tolerance while Hubby works all this out. IMHO, I think that's okay for those who want to save it at all cost, and faced with a situation in which the WS is obdurate and intent on his exploration no matter what.

 

That wasn't okay for me, and I speak only for myself here. I'm not a "save-at-all-cost" person. On my D-Day, when I discovered an inappropriate contact, I did two things. First, I bought a book on marital relationships....and second I contacted an attorney and set up an appointment in order to explore my options.

 

Because I was dealing with an internet OW, I could afford to let my husband explore his fascination on a limited basis. In other words, we came to an agreement whereby I was privy to ALL his contact with her. He limited himself to cyber-contact only, no phone calls or in-person contact, and I was free to read any communication he had with her. He knew I would divorce him otherwise. Period. There was no question on that.

 

This prolonged contact allowed him to get the addiction out of his system, and over a short period of time, he was able to realize what a true LOSER this OW was.

 

He was a first-time offender, however. In the two previous decades together, he had NEVER given me a reason to doubt his fidelity. I think under those circumstances I could afford to give him some latitude....and it paid off.

 

In your situation, your husband has already cheated once before. And he's demonstrated an addiction that is causing him enough grief to submit himself for counseling on a secretive basis. The temptation is apparently in close proximity, not some far-away cyber contact.

 

So you have to ask yourself....what are you willing to do in order to keep the marriage going?

[Love2share]

I'm not trying to start anything negative. I just couldn't help but realize that all of your male "friends" whom you suggest it's okay for them to confide in you rather than their wives, they are all divorced or in the process of divorce. None of them have healthy marriages. I assume that if they did, they would not have a need for your "listening" skills for hours upon hours.

 

To me it just seems more like married men and women should be honest with each other about their relationships outside of the marriage, especially with the opposite sex. And they should NEVER put those friendships above their relationships with their spouse.

 

You made some excellent points, overall :-)

 

Lynn, don't call the other woman. Yes there really is something fishy going on between your husband and his female "friend."

[SleepingLover]

Originally posted by Moose

People cheat because their SO isn't providing what they should in one way or another.

 

That is not entirely true. In many cases it may be, but not on a broad spectrum.

[lynnspies1]

Interesting thing happened last night. My H called me and said, "you are right and I am sorry for dis-respecting you by talking with this OW and lying to you." Then he said he had decided that it was best to cut off all contact with her so that he would have to focus on communicating with me and not with a third person.

 

Now that I am in the position of second guessing ever-thing he says, I feel the following things are possible.

 

1) The OW told him that he needs to knock off the S**T and work on the marriage.

2) The OW told him that she is not willing to deal with him while he has a mental case wife .

3) He is tired of trying to maintain two relationships.

4) He is feeding me a line of crap and hopes I will take it and back off.

 

Now he did say that I could call her anytime and check his phone records to make sure there is no contact. He also said he is not sure what he wants to do at this point but did feel we should explore getting counselling together.

 

Again thanks for the input. It has helped so much getting all of your advise.

 

Lynn

[izzybelle]

Love2Share,

 

I'm not trying to start anything negative. I just couldn't help but realize that all of your male "friends" whom you suggest it's okay for them to confide in you rather than their wives, they are all divorced or in the process of divorce. None of them have healthy marriages. I assume that if they did, they would not have a need for your "listening" skills for hours upon hours.

 

i can understand where you'd get that impression from reading my posts....but it is sooooo not true. those are the ones i talk about here, the others i haven't mentioned much. the others have great relationships with their wives and their wives trust them with me. many still like to talk to me because i have similar interests to them. they still confide in their wives, as far as i know.... with those friends i don't have in depth discussions about their marriages. oh, they'll periodically joke (with the other guys around) that they're "not getting it enough" but that's not directed at me, that's just them talking to the other guys. my friends in high school, and college, and now well beyond that have almost exclusively been men. and i've watched them date, offered them advice, watched them struggle, been there for weddings and the birth of children, and yes, in some cases helped them through break-ups and divorce.... and in one case through the death of his wife (and that was someone that i'd actually been engaged to, and no there's nothing there but friendship).

 

my bestest friend is a woman and i'd probably go so far as to consider her husband right up there on the friend category. he and i talk, sometimes for hours, but usually about misc. stuff. if she was out of town, i know she'd have no problem with me even spending the night at their house because she trusts him, and me. and they have probably one of the strongest marriages i know!!!! we've been through a lot together. another close female friend called me and thanked me for spending time with her husband at a party. he's shy, i'm outgoing and funny and he and i became friends over time (i've known them for years). her husband had always avoided going to those parties but as she said, now thanks to me he looks forward to going! and he's just a friend, she knows it, i know it, he knows it. he has some rather different hobbies (nothing weird, just different) and i know he talks to his wife about them, but i also listen and let him ramble about them. it's not taking away from what he'd tell his wife, he tells her too.

 

like i said, i can understand where you'd get the impression that all my male friends are having trouble, and many of them are. one is now legally separated. and while he should be confiding in his wife and not me, if you've ever been through a divorce you know the "need" to just talk to someone about it.

 

i know we all make assumptions on what people have shared here, but we do need to remind ourselves from time to time, that there's much more to all of our stories than what's shared here. friendship between men and women IS possible, many don't want to and will never accept it....but i live it everyday and have for the better part of my life.

[izzybelle]

one other thought ....

 

i know there's much discussion about men or women sharing with those of the opposite sex things they should be sharing with their spouses. but do we honestly think that they don't share those same conversations with people of the same sex? doesn't that too take away from what they'd be sharing with their spouse? people have friends they like to talk to. being married doesn't mean abandoniing all friendships, it just means that the spouse is the most important person to share the day to day with. having friends doesn't have to detract from the marital relationship regardless of what sex that friend may be.

[StillHurtin]

Your story sounds very much like mine, only H didn't claim he was going to counseling.

 

I also called the OW that H claimed they were just friends. I was very friendly w/ her and asked her what was going on between them b/c several ppl have told me that they are having an A. Her first reaction was too laugh. She said that they were just friends. She told me that H had been confiding in her w/ our M problems. She said she knew that H had filed for a D but was having second thoughts thinking maybe he moved to fast, blah, blah, blach. She acted like she wanted to be my friend and said she would talk to H about us. Well, she did and she clouded his judgement on what he wanted. She was giving him all the attention he wanted and he slept w/ her. The OW is a back stabbing wh@re! I am not bashing ALL OW, just her. She tried being my friend for several years and as soon as H and I were having problems she was right there to pick up the pieces.

 

H dumped the OW shortly afterwards and wanted me and our children back. It took me several weeks to decide whether I wanted to make the M work or not. He made a lot of changes for me and our children. Our M still has some rocky moments but it's much better than what it use to be.

 

I hope that you find the answers you need so you can either try to save your M or get a D so you can find a good man who will cherish you and not cheat on you.

[Love2share]

What you have is a very, very rare commodity. Lynn seems to be kinda like many and a majority of others in the sense that those "friendships" with the opposite sex in a marriage have caused problems with the marriage. It would be nice if Lynn's spouse had this friendship with the OW, and was making Lynn as happy as she could possibly be. Unfortunately, he isn't. He is definitely hidding something from her. In this case, his friendship with the OW is inappropriate.

 

I think, if he is having some problems and really seeing a therapist, he should at least be able to tell his wife what it is about. She should be able to tell him her concerns about the OW. He should be able to confirm or deny those concerns. He should be giving her the support she needs while understanding that she has dealt with this from him before. It was painful then, as it will be painful now. He should LOVE her enough to put her FIRST in his life during this critical time.

 

How dare he put out there: "This could be the end of the marriage", without clarifying himself. It almost seems as though he wants to keep her on edge, intentionally. That's cruel of him.

[izzybelle]

i have to admit with a similar thread going on elsewhere.... i get confused as to which one of these started where. i know lynn is referring to her as OW but i seemed to have missed the part where she confirmed he was having an A? so not really technically an OW in the "true" sense of the word, and as it's thrown around here!

 

yes, she has reasons to be suspicious and luckily, if i understood correctly, he's agreed to cut contact with her. and perhaps they weren't just friends.... hard to say. i know that not all relationships are harmless and i think those with same and opposite sex friends can be problematic. and i will agree that the spouses feelings need to be taken into consideration regarding friends, provided those feelings and requests do not get to the extent that THEY become problematic (controlling) in the marriage. it sounds like Lynn has a lot going on right now, and i agree, there doesn't need to be yet another level of confusion.

 

i was thinking about this on my drive in this morning and about another couple i know. i wouldn't call them friends, she's a witch and he's a lying sack of brown excrement (lovely couple!!). anyway, he periodically goes off on a male bonding trip with his male friends (some married and some not). i've heard her say that she trusts him completely. well hmmm she shouldn't since i've heard some of the stories about what has happened on those trips. what happens in vegas doesn't always stay in vegas when someone has a big mouth! point is... friendship of any type can cause problems, it's the trust we have in our spouse and their ability to choose friends appropriately, and engage in approriate behaviors that's the key, not what sex the friend might be.

[Maggie715]

No don`t call her,it will only hurt u more,,i

[lynnspies1]

Well after several nights of strained conversation he started to talk about what was bothering him. It was like pulling teeth! He stated that he wants to have free time to do what he wants to do, Hang out with friends or such. He stated that he feels obligated to come straight home from work and resents me if I tell him he can't do what he wants to.

 

Here is a little history, we began dating the first week of college, were engaged 6 months later, moved in and lived together for three years, got married at age 22 and had our first kid at age 26. So on one hand we did not rush anything on the other hand I think he may have needed some time on his own out of high school to get to know himself. How at 35 he is resentful. I told him that I would support him spending more time with his guy friends because I think it is important to have guy friends. However I would not support him having friends of the opposite sex due to past indiscression.

 

He recently told me that no matter what he will always love me and be there for me and the kids. That to me means that he has already made his decision and is just going through the motions. I feel there is nothing more I can do at this point but take care of myself and my kids. Part of me wants to fight for him and the other part is tired and does not want to do this anymore. I feel that I am obligated to try though because of our kids. I don't think he feels the same obligation.

 

Sad day for me, why is it that the husband can move on so easily and the wife is left to clean the mess? One interesting thing is that although I feel profoundly sad I also feel a strong sence of calm. Strange?

 

Lynn

[Craig]

Originally posted by lynnspies1

One interesting thing is that although I feel profoundly sad I also feel a strong sence of calm. Strange?

Lynn

Is it really calmness you feel or indifference?

[Ladyjane14]

Originally posted by lynnspies1

Well after several nights of strained conversation he started to talk about what was bothering him. It was like pulling teeth! He stated that he wants to have free time to do what he wants to do, Hang out with friends or such. He stated that he feels obligated to come straight home from work and resents me if I tell him he can't do what he wants to.

 

Did he happen to mention anything about his "friend" in that conversation?

 

He sounds like maybe he's a guy who WAS sitting on the fence....and just had a healthy shove. Maybe his temptation is to land where he believes the grass will be greener.

 

I think your best bet is to decide what YOU want. That way your strategy will be goal-oriented.

[EnigmaXOXO]

He stated that he wants to have free time to do what he wants to do, Hang out with friends or such. He stated that he feels obligated to come straight home from work and resents me if I tell him he can't do what he wants to.

 

Fair enough. He wants to renegotiate and free up some time for play. Nothing wrong with that so long as you're not the one who feels "obligated" to stay at home alone with the house and kids all the time. Compromise. If he gets time away from the regular bump and grind, then make d*mn sure you get some freedom too. Tell him he can go out after work, but he has to stay home with the kids on the weekend while you go out and enjoy your friends, too. Fair is fair.

 

However I would not support him having friends of the opposite sex due to past indiscression.

 

Understandable. We only fear what has hurt us before. And as someone who has continually breached your trust in the past, I find it ironic that instead of doing what he needs to do to get it back, he continually tries to sabotage it. Testing your emotional limits to see how much you'll put up with.

 

He recently told me that no matter what he will always love me and be there for me and the kids.

 

Hot air. Empty promises. He's simply blowing smoke up your ayas because he has yet to back his words up with action. Don't be bamboozled. The sweeter the tongue, the sharper the tooth.

 

Remember, you are not the one to blame. This is not about "control," it's about being conscious and aware. After all, the issue of trust and "platonic friends" wouldn't even be an issue for the two of you right now if he hadn't already proved he lacked good judgment and self control. He's shot his own foot.

 

One interesting thing is that although I feel profoundly sad I also feel a strong sence of calm. Strange?

 

Not at all. You're heart may be finally ready to let go. This is the point most women reach right before filing for divorce. It takes most of us females a while to get there…we tend to cling to a dying relationship much longer because of our emotional investments rather than our libidos. Eventually you will reach the next stage, the point at which you decide you'd rather be alone for the rest of your life than spend one more day trapped in a marriage void of love and mutual respect.

 

Just wish you're husband weren't so self absorbed, otherwise he'd wake up and realize you're only one step away from that door. You're heart's already vacated…the physical exit is usually only a short distance behind.

[lynnspies1]

I saw it coming but was blind sided anyway. He said last night that he needs to be separated "to concentrate on work and figure all of this out in his head". I had a feeling it would go this way but I am so angry. I have to work full time, take care of three small kids and the house and he get to go off and figure it out! So, is it that he wants to figure it out or has he already figured it out and he is just messing with me?

 

Lynn

[Mz. Pixie]

If I had to guess I'd say he's already figured it out.

[Ladyjane14]

Originally posted by lynnspies1

He said last night that he needs to be separated "to concentrate on work and figure all of this out in his head".

 

That's bullsh*t, honey. Straight out of the cheatin' spouse handbook.

 

It's hard to juggle two women, and keep all your lies straight, while you're living in the same house with the one you're supposed to be faithful to. The separation request goes hand-in-hand with wanting to explore your options and keep your home-deal going on the back-burner.

 

It's up to you to decide if that's okay with you. If it is, he'll probably come back home after his little marriage sabatical. Once he's out of the house, OW will be forced to fulfill ALL of his EN's (emotional needs). It's been taking two women to do that lately, so she'll have her hands full dealing with the reality of it all.

 

If it's not okay, call his bluff. You can counter his terms with terms of your own....as in "this is what I need to even be willing to continue being your wife". He might go anyway, but at least you'll have the satisfaction of knowing that he left with a complete understanding of how he had sh*t in his own nest.

 

Either way, you need to "get the goods" on him, and bust him on the infidelity. You need to be sure, so that you don't exacerbate the situation. If you can afford one, hire a PI. If not, post back and I'm sure there are alot of folks who can share some ideas with you on what to do. Liars will lie until you rub the truth on their noses.

 

If it were me, I have to tell you...once I had him caught, I'd be on to Plan D....Divorce. And I'd bend him over at the settlement table so that he was sure to know I'd been there too.

 

If he's shaping up to be a serial cheater, then he won't change until he's had effective therapy. Serial cheaters tend to feel ENTITLED. And they can rationalize their behavior to the point where they don't even think about the feelings of the one they cheat on. They don't change easily.

 

Don't forget to get tested for STD's. I know that sucks, but it's better safe than sorry when in doubt.

[Owl]

I'm sorry to hear this friend....and I've got to agree with L J on this one too...this is almost always a quote when someone's cheating...I heard it from my wife too..."I need some time to sort things out"...what she was really planning (and I know this for a fact, since I had the chat logs from her conversations with her OM) was to meet for the first time with her OM in person...her's was an online emotional affair.

 

If you want advice on how to catch him, feel free to PM me or ask here on the forum. I've made a few suggestions to people a couple of times, and it seems to work out.

 

I also agree with L J on possible ways to handle this yourself..."While I can understand that you may feel this way, realize that I need you to understand that if you leave me, I won't be able to continue to be your wife". He's sitting on the fence...he's been taking from both you and the OW, and what he's hoping to get out of this is more time to continue his A with her...and at the same time come by to see you so that you can still fulfill some of his needs as well. If nothing else, this will force him to recognize the consequences of his actions...

 

Good luck friend!

[jmargel]

From a guy's POV you need to give him an ultamatium. Either the two of you goto MC and get this sorted out or it's over. You also need to come out and ask him if this woman is still in the picture. What he is going through right now is a mid-life crisis, at 35 it's a little earlier but he has 3 kids. Now is the time where he's going to mess up the marriage if something could go wrong.

 

Explain to him the ultamatium is not you trying to control him, but to prevent potential damage that could result. Going off on your own to "think" about things is BS. He can think just as well as being with you & going to a MC. If he's not sure what he wants then he needs to discuss that with the counselor privately. However moving somewhere else is only going to strain the marraige more and bring in even more resentment. If his love for you is still there then he knows what he should do.

[izzybelle]

i do think you've got a real mess on your hands and it does sound like there's something going on... but two thoughts..

 

i too, told my exH that i needed some space to figure things out and well... i wasn't having an A, it was the truth. if one really does need some time to sort things out, is there a phrase that they're supposed to use other than this one? not saying he's not lying to you but some of us really have said those words backed by honest intentions.

 

and second, while i hope it doesn't come to this and i'm sure LJ was just letting you know to stand firm...

And I'd bend him over at the settlement table so that he was sure to know I'd been there too.

 

if i remember correctly, you have kids. i've seen toooooooo many women, several of which had cheating spouses who took this approach. guess who ended up paying the biggest price in the end? the kids. the Ws devastated their exs so drastically that dad became unable to afford much on what was left and the kids ended up resenting mom, in spite of what they knew dad did. again, i so hope you don't come to that .... but .... bleeding someone dry doesn't take away the pain.

[Ladyjane14]

....and second, while i hope it doesn't come to this and i'm sure LJ was just letting you know to stand firm...

 

"And I'd bend him over at the settlement table so that he was sure to know I'd been there too. "

 

Nope. I meant that. It's expensive to single-parent three children. A guy who has no more character than to dump all the responsibilities off on his wife, while he goes "to sort things out", can't be counted on to do the right thing.

 

It's best to make sure he "does the right thing" in writing....and from the very beginning too.

[lynnspies1]

Thanks for all of your advice. It all appears to be a little too late however. He left us tonight and finally stated after an argument that he was indeed not in love with me anymore and had fallen in love with the women in question. He wants to be with her now. It all happened so fast, I feel like I am in a bad dream and wish someone would just wake me up. We have been together for 18 years and he is just going to walk away for some women he met three months ago.

 

Very sad, Lynn

[izzybelle]

lynn -

 

i am so sorry to hear that! although i don't want to offer any false hope, they say that many do come back after they fully realize what they're giving up and the newness of the relationship wears off. however, it will then be up to you as to whether or not you want him back with you.

 

i hope you and your kids are doing ok, i know this will be tough on all of you. take care and <<hugs>>

 

izzy

[Ladyjane14]

Originally posted by lynnspies1

Thanks for all of your advice. It all appears to be a little too late however. He left us tonight and finally stated after an argument that he was indeed not in love with me anymore and had fallen in love with the women in question. He wants to be with her now. It all happened so fast, I feel like I am in a bad dream and wish someone would just wake me up. We have been together for 18 years and he is just going to walk away for some women he met three months ago.

 

Yeah, it really does feel like a bad dream, when the one you loved and trusted turns into a stranger right before your eyes. It's kind of like some space alien body-snatches the husband that you knew, and leaves in his place someone totally unrecognizable from the man he was before. It leaves you grieving for that man, because he's just gone.

 

There are unfortunately ALOT of people here who can identify with that.

 

You're going to be going on the rollercoaster ride of your life now, emotionally speaking. So, the first thing you have to do is to take care of yourself....so you can be there for your kids. You have to tend to your body's need for sleep and nutrition. (I lost 20 pounds in a month, during my marriage crisis....and I don't think my problems were as bad as yours. It made me feel really sick though, and I don't recommend it as a weight loss method!)

 

It may seem like you don't have choices right now, but I assure you that you do. And you don't have to make them today either. In fact, it's actually better to wait for a little while, until your emotions settle down and you are able to determine what it is that YOU want.

 

If you don't want him back EVER, you are at no obligation to give him another chance.... EVER. You can divorce him out-of-hand without a backwards glance and be justified in doing it. If and when he comes crawling back, you are free to say "no way".

 

And they very often do try to come back. The rush of hormones and pheromones in the "falling in love" stage with OW, don't last. Like any other relationship, those chemical influences will fade. Out in the open, they fade even quicker without the illicit excitement of a secret affair to feed them.

 

The pressure of being forced to meet previous family committments, and dealing with the details of meeting each other's needs, add stress to the affair. Reality intrudes. Couple that with the loss of esteem in the eyes of extended family members, friends, and aquaintances, and it all loses it's luster pretty quickly.

 

While you're in the decision stage, it's perfectly okay to be pleasant. You can show him that you are the preferable alternative to taking that giant leap off the edge of the world. You can make him sorry for what he's done by letting him see what a terrific person you are, and all that he'll miss be leaving you. But don't accept him back, and don't sleep with him until you're certain that he's not in contact with OW. You would be perpetuating the excitement and drama of the affair.

 

This doesn't mean that you don't call him into immediate account on meeting his financial obligations to you and your children. You should see a lawyer about that IMMEDIATELY. Remember, you are not dealing with the husband that you knew. You're dealing with the space alien AND the unknown quantity of the OW who has more influence on him than you do at this time. You can bet that she's not out to protect you or your children.

 

You'll need to protect joint assets, and set up financial support. He is free at this time to clean out any joint savings that you have, until you have a court order in place. He is free to take your children anywhere he wants until you have a temporary custody order. Protecting yourself and your children is paramount.

 

My last post sounded a bit snippy. Apologies all around, and particularly to Izzy. It's not my intent to offend. But I well understand the financial aspects of being an under-supported child of divorce. My parents weren't bad people, but they really screwed that up. My siblings and I were quite destitute at times.

 

The bottom line is that right now, you do still have choices in all this, even though your choices will not guarantee an outcome. He'll either come back or he won't. You'll either accept him back or you won't.

 

But no matter what happens, you'll be better off if you keep your family as stable and as intact as possible financially.

 

You can and should call your husband to accountability right now. If you're pleasant but firm, you will still have those choices later when you're ready to make them. Protecting yourself and your children will not negatively affect your ability to reconcile if it is your choice later. It will not negatively impede your ability to communicate in a co-parenting relationship later....if you're pleasant but firm.

 

And as a sidebar, if OW still wants him when his pockets are empty, let HER support him. That doesn't have any bearing at all on what you need to do. That's their problem, not yours. You have enough of your own.

 

It's not about torturing the cheater....it's about taking care of your family.