Can you forgive someone when they show no remorse?

[bathtub-row]

Forgiveness is more for you then it is for her. It's not meant to excuse their behavior but rather it prevents their behavior from destroying you.

 

"Forgiveness is a gift you give yourself" - Tony Robbins

 

I'm all for forgiveness but I don't understand how it applies to this topic. Leave her and forgive? Yeah, that can happen. End the argument and forgive? Yep, could happen. Still, what's that got to do with the fact that this person relentlessly uses illogical reasoning and shuts him down? Or that she criticizes him and consistently makes him feel bad? Ok, he forgives and then the next time he wants to talk about something important to him, she argues and shuts him down again. And then the next time. And the next time...

 

I don't get it.

[SoleMate]

[she says] I am sexist because I get stressed about my career sometimes when I work at a job that pays for the majority of the bills....

Didn't you leave something out?

 

Also, please read The Feeling Good handbook by David Burns. It has the answer you need.

[Elliotte]

Thanks for all the feedback folks, it is very much appreciated.

 

My thoughts on forgiveness are this;

I think holding a grudge against someone is unhealthy and whenever I've felt wronged by someone I have worked to clear myself of those feelings, although it also usually involves them not being in my life anymore, or them showing some sign that they are sorry for how they hurt me and are able to talk it through, but it takes time, at least for me, in order to role around it in my mind, come at it fresh and able to move on.

 

I really want to move on from the times when her and I would argue weekly, all night long, me trying desperately to work it out, her shoving any way to twist my words into something horrible and accuse me of being complete scum. We got far in couples therapy, we rarely fight anymore, and talk more productively. Unfortunately there are still those times where she will flip a switch and start hurling whatever bad things she can at me, and she still has barely ever shown signs that she feels bad for her behavior and how it has cut me so deep I always doubt our future.

 

As many of you have suggested, I have tried many different approaches with her, for the longest time I was the calm one, or I tried to stand my ground, etc etc. The results are always the same, she piles on the button pushing and twisting every word I say. I've shut down arguments, I've walked away, etc, regardless of what I do, there's a point at the beginning of every argument where she stops listening and starts mud slinging nonstop. It seems to me like something deep seated and any time it is pointed out to her, she uses some twisted logic to act like it is okay. There have been super rare moments where she almost hints at knowing the truth, but those are very rare.

 

I hope to find a way to start reconciling things slowly with her, seems like it's a drastic change for her to see the damage she causes, and actually realize in order to fix it, I need her help with it, if we are to move forward in our relationship.

 

Again, thanks everyone for the feedback!

[Popsicle]

No, no you cant. it sounds like you both are resentful.

[Elliotte]

No, no you cant. it sounds like you both are resentful.

 

I definitely cannot deny that.

 

I just don't get how someone can talk so much **** to her husband and still feel like she was right to do so once things have cooled down. But any time I try to explain that to her she says that's how she argues, she feels completely justified, and doesn't want to apologize at all, she comes up with excuses to why she doesn't need to say sorry!

 

I know marriage is accepting the bad with the good, but when the bad is having her stomp on my buttons any time she feels it is fine to do so, when is the breaking point? I am resentful of this to the point of yelling at her when she does it.

 

That's what I am asking with this topic, is it possible to forgive and forget when the other person keeps doing it AND maintain a relationship with that person!? If so, HOW!?!?

[Got it]

Thanks for all the feedback folks, it is very much appreciated.

 

My thoughts on forgiveness are this;

I think holding a grudge against someone is unhealthy and whenever I've felt wronged by someone I have worked to clear myself of those feelings, although it also usually involves them not being in my life anymore, or them showing some sign that they are sorry for how they hurt me and are able to talk it through, but it takes time, at least for me, in order to role around it in my mind, come at it fresh and able to move on.

 

I really want to move on from the times when her and I would argue weekly, all night long, me trying desperately to work it out, her shoving any way to twist my words into something horrible and accuse me of being complete scum. We got far in couples therapy, we rarely fight anymore, and talk more productively. Unfortunately there are still those times where she will flip a switch and start hurling whatever bad things she can at me, and she still has barely ever shown signs that she feels bad for her behavior and how it has cut me so deep I always doubt our future.

 

As many of you have suggested, I have tried many different approaches with her, for the longest time I was the calm one, or I tried to stand my ground, etc etc. The results are always the same, she piles on the button pushing and twisting every word I say. I've shut down arguments, I've walked away, etc, regardless of what I do, there's a point at the beginning of every argument where she stops listening and starts mud slinging nonstop. It seems to me like something deep seated and any time it is pointed out to her, she uses some twisted logic to act like it is okay. There have been super rare moments where she almost hints at knowing the truth, but those are very rare.

 

I hope to find a way to start reconciling things slowly with her, seems like it's a drastic change for her to see the damage she causes, and actually realize in order to fix it, I need her help with it, if we are to move forward in our relationship.

 

Again, thanks everyone for the feedback!

 

And what that says to me is someone that is so enmeshed in having to be right, so afraid to admit fault that they are actually very insecure and so have to resort to a very bullying approach to "win".

 

I don't know how you combat that if they aren't willing to even being admitting fault. Maybe this is where IC would help you as well as it is more focused on supporting just you.

[Elliotte]

At this point I'm just keeping to myself or taking care of my son around the house, when I make dinner or breakfast I set a place for her, but otherwise don't want to deal with her. I used to try to get things back to being happy times as quickly as possible, I like to fix the situation and move on, but at this point I know no matter what way I've tried to approach her, she's swatted down anything I've said. Monday we talked about our weekend-long fight and we I told her about all the stuff she said was hurtful and pushed my buttons, she didn't say sorry, she didn't acknowledge that it acknowledge that it affected me negatively, she simply said "I don't apologize when I feel I was right to say everything I say during arguments".

 

I guess I am realizing that it wasn't just difficult circumstances that made her flip out, that's who she has always been, even during the happy times and even before we started off so well in the first year of dating. I am not sure if I can live with someone like this for the rest of my life.

 

I kind of want to do what SawtoothMars said he did, and tell her to make a choice between her stubborn pride or her husband, but I figure I already know the answer; it isn't me she would choose. She said during the argument she was ready to leave and I am ready to let her.

 

I've dumped women for putting me through a lot less bull**** than this, and that's a huge part of why I've stayed with her so long; I don't want to feel like I failed the relationship by giving up on it "too early".

[Elliotte]

At this point I'm just keeping to myself or taking care of my son around the house, when I make dinner or breakfast I set a place for her, but otherwise don't want to deal with her. I used to try to get things back to being happy times as quickly as possible, I like to fix the situation and move on, but at this point I know no matter what way I've tried to approach her, she's swatted down anything I've said. Monday we talked about our weekend-long fight and we I told her about all the stuff she said was hurtful and pushed my buttons, she didn't say sorry, she didn't acknowledge that it acknowledge that it affected me negatively, she simply said "I don't apologize when I feel I was right to say everything I say during arguments".

 

I guess I am realizing that it wasn't just difficult circumstances that made her flip out, that's who she has always been, even during the happy times and even before we started off so well in the first year of dating. I am not sure if I can live with someone like this for the rest of my life.

 

I kind of want to do what SawtoothMars said he did, and tell her to make a choice between her stubborn pride or her husband, but I figure I already know the answer; it isn't me she would choose. She said during the argument she was ready to leave and I am ready to let her.

 

I've dumped women for putting me through a lot less bull**** than this, and that's a huge part of why I've stayed with her so long; I don't want to feel like I failed the relationship by giving up on it "too early". Honestly it feels like karma is kicking my ass, my last ex wasn't nearly this difficult to be with.

[ComingInHot]

Elliotte,

Again, I've lived the reverse of your stitch with my H. His narcissism also led to his cheating. I spent waaay to long trying to make the M work.

I truly love him but I have to love myself more. Not just for me but for my kids.

I will not have my daughter grow to marry someone like that nor have my son become that. They both agree and they love their dad but know what they see isn't okay.

[itzok2bk2o]

Hello Eliotte,

 

I’m sorry you’re going through this and I can certainly understand how you’re feeling. One of my friend had a similar problem with his wife and MC helped them. I hope you’ll seriously consider going back to counseling as it might help you and your wife get to the root of the issue. I hope things improve for you very soon.

 

@itzok2bk2o