Should I hold off?

[JSD]

I am coping with this now, I'm not reaching out but you seem very wise in this department. I don't want to reach at clouds here man and I'm sorry I'm a mess,but you don't believe any sincerity in her letter? She wrote it to be honest. I'm fully aware I messed up and have no intent on trying to contact her, but before the letter alwhen she called first she was civil and stated she will be at the airport to get me and we talked about my tax issues. She seems to do this every few days,civil then angry, happy texts to me, then the next day no response to mine. Clearly it is best to not even contact her and maybe not even respond to her unless she says it's the children, but I mean look at that letter you don't see any contradictions in it. You have no faith she is just totally confused as well?

[evanescentworld]

My question is simple is there really any point in going to the therapist, her mind seems defiantly made up. That's if she doesn't pull out which I'm fully expecting anyways,though her letter says she wants to.

 

You mean 'definitely'.

 

But 'Defiantly' works just as well, actually.

That's exactly what she is - defiant.

 

She will express herself during the session, tell you where you are wrong, and why she wants out - it's a 'safer' environment, with someone else - a professional - present. She will gain courage and comfort, solace and strength from the present witness, and expose her thoughts to you.

She will use the session to explain to you why this is final.

 

If she doesn't back out.

 

Do not contact her between now and then.

If she wants to back out, let her be the one to come to you and tell you.

And as, when or if she does, merely reply, "Well, THERE'S a surprise."

But do NOT be drawn into further discussion. Hang up.

 

Take control of yourself and the situation.

 

Contact to speak to the children, and them only. Do not engage her in emotional, personal talk.

Your current and ever-present focus is the well-being and stability of your children's lives.

Focus, buddy, FOCUS.

[evanescentworld]

I am coping with this now, I'm not reaching out but you seem very wise in this department. I don't want to reach at clouds here man and I'm sorry I'm a mess,but you don't believe any sincerity in her letter? She wrote it to be honest. I'm fully aware I messed up and have no intent on trying to contact her, but before the letter alwhen she called first she was civil and stated she will be at the airport to get me and we talked about my tax issues. She seems to do this every few days,civil then angry, happy texts to me, then the next day no response to mine. Clearly it is best to not even contact her and maybe not even respond to her unless she says it's the children, but I mean look at that letter you don't see any contradictions in it. You have no faith she is just totally confused as well?

 

She's a woman, what do you expect?

 

Basically, she is killing this marriage, and wants an end to it.

But women are the so-called nurturing, caring, embracing gender.

So it goes against the grain to stab, wound and kill.

She's trying to be gentle in the murder of her marriage.

 

There's a contradiction for you, right there.

Gentle in Murder.

 

See?

 

That''s what's happening here.

[JSD]

Also I live in Canada and we have two childern dude, she needs to seperate for a year before divorce and theirs kids involved. It's not like it gonna be quick turnaround and she knows that.

[evanescentworld]

Also I live in Canada and we have two childern dude, she needs to seperate for a year before divorce and theirs kids involved. It's not like it gonna be quick turnaround and she knows that.

 

I never mentioned, quick, I never mentioned easy.

But you have to separate 'marriage' and 'children'.

 

The marriage is an official status which can be ended in Court by following a legally-accepted procedure.

 

Kids are yours, biologically, inseparably, for good.

So while the marriage is in one 'box', the kids are in another 'box'.

 

The lid is on one, but not the other.

 

Transfer your energies to taking care of the children.

The marriage is taking care of itself.

[JSD]

They are my number one priority believe me. After her saying it won't affect them, I fear she is either having depression issues or just so bold to the fact she wants out she's not thinking about the kids. Which would seem very odd to me as she is a great mother now a mutual friends/couple wife has been talking to her and has told me she thinks she's just confused as well after speaking to her lots. Oddly enough this woman had also seperated from her husband one of my best friends and they have both admitted yes I'm a idiot and to back off, but worse things were said to him from her and she actually dated another guy for awhile. They are currently back together and happy. So I'm sorry I'm trying to see the hope in this but it does happen. I am not gonna make contact though. She also has asked me not to tell my parents and she hasn't told hers or her brother. So I'm sorry that I'm just confused to.

[JSD]

She called this morning I talked to the kids which was awesome. Then she got on the phone with me and asked for what time she should be at the airport. Also I stated I was gonna take the kids out to a amuesmant park they like , and start jogging at the dog park when I take our,dog there and I asked if she would like to to join. She actually seemed high spirited in her yes. Then named a couple other places she would like to go and said she would like to accompinie on a birthday date as its my birthday when I get home. I kept it short and sweet and said goodbye I will not contact her at all as backing off as you stated, at least got her to call. So why would she agree or seem to want to do these things if she wants out so bad. You still think there's no hesitatatilon to give me a chance here? I mean I'm still prepping myself for the worst here and am starting to cope with it better or best I can for now, but why go through the trouble? She knows how to show her teeth especially when pressured lol but is it possible She is not opposed to giving me a little chance?

[evanescentworld]

You should not be inviting her to go anywhere, do anything or get involved in any activity where her presence is neither necessary or required.

I guarantee if you go ahead with this, either your heart will break some more, or you will get such mixed messages it will be the most complicated Mind~ph*kk you will ever be trying to get yourself out of.

 

look here, you're already asking questions:

 

So why would she agree or seem to want to do these things if she wants out so bad. You still think there's no hesitatatilon to give me a chance here? I mean I'm still prepping myself for the worst here and am starting to cope with it better or best I can for now, but why go through the trouble? She knows how to show her teeth especially when pressured lol but is it possible She is not opposed to giving me a little chance?

 

Mixed messages always mean a mind-mess, and messing with yours, too.

It's not what she says or does that matters. What YOU say and do, is what matters.

You should be leading this by doing exactly as you were advised.

 

And already, it's messing with your mind, and creating confusion...

[evanescentworld]

And just as a reminder:

 

Basically, she is killing this marriage, and wants an end to it.

But women are the so-called nurturing, caring, embracing gender.

So it goes against the grain to stab, wound and kill.

She's trying to be gentle in the murder of her marriage.

 

There's a contradiction for you, right there.

Gentle in Murder.

 

See?

 

That''s what's happening here.

[JSD]

Well this is a definite possibility and I'm preparing myself for that,but she called again this morning and when the call dropped she texted me good night and that she loves me. I mean we are still gonna be under the same roof for a bit regardless. I do plan on giving space and not pressuring,but when I get home I really think I should still let my actions show that I am fixing me. Why wouldn't I try at this point. You have to understand I love this woman and my childern if anything I'll know within 2 days anyways as we will be at the therapist 48 hrs after I arrive. She clearly waffle boards on her letter,and I believe I would be a fool to at least not try and do some of the things like finding common ground that she states we have none in common. I am prepping myself for the worst but hoping for the best. I will not act needy or over bearing any longer though as its not doing anyone any good.

[evanescentworld]

Ok, that's a plan. I agree that she's classically blowing hot and cold... This is all new to her too... Every new development is bound to expose unexplored territory and most people fear the unknown so they cling to familiar habits and ways of expression until things progress.

The other thing to keep in mind is two-fold:

ONE: beware and resist with all your might, the knee-jerk reaction. Wherever and whenever possible, give yourself the time and space to think things through.

TWO : never, ever, ever permit yourself to decide anything if you are mentally, in an 'emotional' place. However tempting it may be, always make decisions based on what your mind tells you, rather than what your heart wants.

[JSD]

Yeah when it comes down to it its in her hands she either needs to commit to opening her heart and mind. She told me I could call her of I wanted but I'll let her call me. In all honesty this is making me a better person, I'm taking steps on getting my self esteem up and it has made me want to be a bigger part in my childern and if she lets me her life. I do believe she is on the fence but your straight forward reality checks have been good for me,and I thank you. All I can do is go to counselling and hope for the best, The only challenge I see if she does want to make this work is making her fall in love with me again,but I will speak with actions and give her space by spending more time with my childern. At this point I'm gonna show myself that I can be any girls dream man but hope she can see I only want to be hers. Your comments have already made me loose weight by eating healthy and excersising.....something I haven't done in years. They have also made me look forward to doing things I use to be happy letting her do, like getting up early with them to see them off to school and doing homework with them. In fact I've had dental issues all my life, hence not wanting to meet people and having low self esteem over it. I actually contacted a dental implant office this morning which I've wanted to do for years,but was always scared to. I will have to bring this up with her as its a big financial descion and I want her to be more involved with that......another thing I did wrong for years. The point is Your advice has helped me and I'm very grateful. I would like to continue with updates for your guidance if that's okay with you?

[JSD]

Sorry for the spelling and grammar, this all being typed on a phone.

[evanescentworld]

Yuss, typing on phones can be a beech sometimes....

 

I am always here. I now have PM facility so anything you do not wish to share on forum, I'd be happy to discuss, and naturally, it would remain between us.

 

See a dentist, to begin with, as a matter of course, and get an up-to-date assessment of what course of action would be best. Gather different options, and consider them, with her.

 

 

You sound like a very different person to the one who began the thread, I must say.

 

It doesn't matter what "wisdom" people fling, it's whether the receiver catches it and does something with it, that counts.

All credit to you. I wish you much Metta

[JSD]

So she has continued to call everday now and I couldnt even get off the phone one day with her when I tried to cut it short. We laughed and she even texted she loved me one night. I know I need to be strong and keep going forward but it tugged at my heartsrtings when I got that text. Anyways I have had a couple moments of weakness ie texted her a couple times ( always about kids or bills, as it is first of the month) and Ive found myself making promises not in a begging way but like she was totally stressed at my little fella and tuning him in and I said like you need a break and ill look after getting up, homework and bed time for a bit when I get home, and I do mean it. Or like also you know I want to get groceries on the way home from the airport, and we should have your brother and his wife over or another couple she knows that I really havent spent the time to getting to know. Ill cook which she kinda made a statement like ohh your gonna cook on top of everything elses. Now I do mean all theses things as I do want to help out more I do want to have couples dates and fun with here, but she clearly sees them as empty promises which I understand, so I have refrained from texting again, though she had replied and they were all civil, and I will stop offering help. Now she is being very nice and I think she does miss me or is second doubting as shes contacted me everytime and truly seems enthused to talk to me though I more just try and get her to talk about her. She happily agreed to the finance descion of the dental work. Im sure she has wanted that for a long time,but she made me feel good about it and like she understood , which tells me she does still care inside somewhere. My question now Evanescentworld is I plan on proving with actions when I get home, but it seems she doesnt believe this. will actions make her upset also? With the exemption of hanging with the kids, when theyre at school how should I go about giving her her space and showing her that I care? I am still well aware that I can be emotional and still need to take care of me as well but how do I balance this? any suggestions

[JSD]

Really need to start proof reading these. lol

[evanescentworld]

......My question now Evanescentworld is I plan on proving with actions when I get home, but it seems she doesnt believe this. will actions make her upset also? With the exemption of hanging with the kids, when theyre at school how should I go about giving her her space and showing her that I care? I am still well aware that I can be emotional and still need to take care of me as well but how do I balance this? any suggestions

 

Ok, this is what you do.

You take a radical step back, and look entirely and singularly at your own life: Habits, tendencies, idiosyncrasies, characteristics, personality traits.... and you think to yourself (make a personal, private list even, and this one really IS just for you):

 

What here, is working really well?

 

What here, is working ok, but could do with the odd tweak now and then?

 

What here needs improvement, and needs a bit of concerted effort?

 

What here is a complete no-no, and needs a radical overhaul?

 

Make a list.

Prioritise, and tackle the different factors you decide on, and chart your own progress.

 

Do NOT berate yourself too much if you slip up, but maintain a consistent progress, and keep trying, until efforts become habits.

 

Keep this to yourself. Reveal nothing, to anyone, other than a one-to-one counsellor.

 

Above all - do this for yourself.

Not with an ulterior motive, not to get an outside result, not to change someone else's view, opinion or stance on the matter.

 

Do it, because it's important for your evolution, development and change for the better.

 

Keep at he good work, and eventually, she will see that what you are doing - IS working.

 

Now, I can give you NO guarantees as to her decisions, actions or thought-processes.

I can't say for definite that she will do the complete 180 and come running back, slow-mo, across a flowering meadow, flowy dress billowing in the breeze, hair tossing behind her. (You get the picture.)

 

But what I can say, is that it will never, never hurt, and it will improve your self-esteem, well-being, relationship with your children, and transformation.

 

Whatever you do, Actions count. And you make them count because in the end, who matters most in this, is you.

 

because if you don't take care of "home", who'd want to live there, anyway?

[JSD]

Thank you

 

I have actually already started a list previous to this discussion but will improve on it. I will also take not of what's working and what's not. I sure hope this can be turned around with dedication and action, but at the end of the day if all it does is make me a better father and person, well it's still a close second.

 

Also I laughed at your meadow reference. You've been hiding a comical side I see.

 

Thanks again hope I will be back with good news.

[JSD]

Today is the big day I fly home. I have a question in her letter and everything I have said did you ever think or still think she may have gone outside the marriage? I mean she says no when asked but she wasn't even upset when I asked,and she has asked me the other night how long am I home for,this is something she has never asked really before especially before I had gotten home. Besides that lurking question in my head and gut,we are getting along great on the phone and she has even made comments eluding to our futures in plans and budgets. I just can't shake the feeling perhaps she has cheated on me.

[evanescentworld]

I'm not a man, so I don't know how the 'male gut feeling' feels. But as a woman, I trust my gut feelings.

 

Ok, let's look at this again:

She's been blowing hot and cold.

 

Cold when you approach, hot when you seem to become distant.

 

as I see it from an outside perspective, in the cold, grey light of day, she doesn't like it when you appear to be in control of matters....she wants to put you where she wants you.

In other words she's responding to your reactions by behaving in a way to draw you in.

 

Go back to the beginning, and remember, she was the one who instigated this separation.

 

So my wife has asked for her space we are currently still married but she doesnt feel we have a future.

 

So it seems that we have a woman here, who appears on the surface, to know what she wants, but is in fact, probably confused about that - or at least, wants to engineer things so that she feels less of an impact, and more of a soft landing, for herself.

 

The impression I get, reading the thread again, is of a woman who doesn't want this marriage, but still wants the comfort of knowing you care for her, support her, and "idolise" her.

In other words, she's avoiding as much collateral damage for herself as she can, to establish herself a guaranteed 'soft place to fall'.

 

That would be you, by the way, and the fact that it's messing with your mind, doesn't occur to her.

I think it's subconscious, but her action plan is to make this as least traumatic as possible for herself.

 

Now, as to your gut feeling: I don't know. I don't even want to hypothesise, imagine, guess or advise on that.

Truth to tell is, you may actually never know anyway.

But you shouldn't let it eat you.

Go by what you see her doing, not by what you imagine may have happened.

 

What she is enacting now, is what counts.

I hate to say it, but it sounds to me as if you need to metaphorically poke her in the chest and ask her straight out:

 

Do you want to work on saving this marriage, Yes, or No?

If she says yes - why exactly?

If she says no - Why exactly?

 

if she hesitates, or says she doesn't know, then I'm sorry, but you'll have to look her in the eye and tell her that until she can make up her mind ONE WAY OR THE OTHER - you have to be in the mind-frame that this is over, and proceed in such a way as to safeguard your relationship with the children as their father.

You can't do the other: Jolly along the pretence, in the hope she will say 'yes' because then you're building hope on hope, and toppling off that hill will be a long, hard painful fall.

So might as well start at the bottom already.

[JSD]

I did ask her yesterday when we were talking,as she told me she does really miss me. So I asked are you truly into going to the counsler and working on this? Her response was yes,but I didn't push it any further as I feel it's only a couple days until we are sitting there and she will have to either discuss goals and future or put it to rest. She has defiantly been more hot than anything as of late though. I'm not getting my hopes up to high, but I am ready to prove by action if she does let me do so. I guess I understand her pain and why she wants to do this I'm just confused as to why she's so back and forth. I have goven her outs stating I do not want to get divorced but if that's what she wants I agree, but she always wants me to stay yet still indicates she's unsure it can work.

[evanescentworld]

......I'm just confused as to why she's so back and forth. I have given her outs stating I do not want to get divorced but if that's what she wants I agree, but she always wants me to stay yet still indicates she's unsure it can work.

 

My point exactly. Be confused no further.

I repeat my comments, reproduced here, below:

 

..... The impression I get... is of a woman who doesn't want this marriage, but still wants the comfort of knowing you care for her, support her, and "idolise" her.

In other words, she's avoiding as much collateral damage for herself as she can, to establish herself a guaranteed 'soft place to fall'.

 

That would be you, by the way, and the fact that it's messing with your mind, doesn't occur to her.

I think it's subconscious, but her action plan is to make this as least traumatic as possible for herself.

 

Therefore, I repeat (and yes, a time to ask would be during counselling):

 

 

.....you need to metaphorically poke her in the chest and ask her straight out:

 

Do you want to work on saving this marriage, Yes, or No?

If she says yes - why exactly?

If she says no - Why exactly?

 

if she hesitates, or says she doesn't know, then I'm sorry, but you'll have to look her in the eye and tell her that until she can make up her mind ONE WAY OR THE OTHER - you have to be in the mind-frame that this is over, and proceed in such a way as to safeguard your relationship with the children as their father.

You can't do the other: Jolly along the pretence, in the hope she will say 'yes' because then you're building hope on hope, and toppling off that hill will be a long, hard painful fall.

[JSD]

So just a update we are working things out,and have actually been getting along better than ever. We have been to two sessions of counselling now and it really has proven to be a god send. A lot of anger was released with a lot of tears, but it

Does have us being truthful to each other and on the road to reconciliation. I continue to prove by actions which she was Leary about but I believe she is starting to see that I'm committed. I will continue to evolve and help our marriage evolve. As of now the woods are getting thinner but there's still a lot to travel.

[evanescentworld]

Well this is extremely gratifying.

Nothing could possibly please me more than knowing this is happening.

 

Keep up the good work on yourself, FOR yourself.

 

You're "improving" who you are, to better yourself and create a new you, without losing the essence of your character or being.

One may even say that in fact, the true you is being exposed, as you shed bad habits, accumulated tendencies and negative traits gathered along the way, through the years....

 

Complacency, laziness, taking things for granted.... this all leads to our true selves being suppressed and buried under multiple layers of torpor, sloth and giveafeckedness.....

 

As you "lead by example" others notice, and may even follow....

 

Be good to yourself, whatever may happen.

 

Much Metta to you.