Separation: Complicated After Two Decades

[JoeCool]

Ok as far as my kids go. They are all straight A/B+ honor roll students. They are involved in after school activities. They receive many awards annually. They are successful in almost any interest they pursue. None of them have sought out a serious relationship, or substance use. They are too busy living their life, and discovering who they are. I have spent countless hours giving them love, support, guidance, and purpose to life. I am also the primary disciplinary figure. My parenting style is Authoritative, and my wife has learned to follow my lead. I realized long ago my faults and failures and have always made sure to give specialized individual guidance to my children to insure they remain healthy, and avoid a similar fate of mine and my wife's life. All of the kids are unique and have their own strengths and weaknesses. They are some of the best kids you will ever meet, and bring a smile to almost everyone's face. My wife states that I am the much better parent. As long as she does not go completely crazy I should end up with it least 50% custody and most likely primary custody. She probably would not contest this, as she admits it is in their best interest to be with me.

[JoeCool]

Although the new DSMV has dropped cluster B disorders, yes, she exhibits many tendencies of cluster B. I have worked with her on dialectical therapy and she has shown progress. I remain hopeful that this will be the trigger to recovery. I am beginning to accept that this is at best, her last chance. I have known this (separation) was coming for awhile. I was (am) living in denial.

 

To be more clear she exhibits traits of many DSMIV cluster B disorders. I have not kept up on DSMV and do not know actual changes as opposed to proposed changes, as I just doubled checked online on unofficial sites. YES, I know what this means. YES, she is on one of the most effective med combos for these disorders.

 

 

I am working on what to do. I have had POSSIBLY the irrational belief that my wife would not recover from divorce, e.g. commit suicide. I am seeing changes in her that indicate that she is waking up and taking responsibility for her life. This makes me hopeful that I will finally be able to live my life. NO, I was not aware of the extent of the problem until after becoming knee deep.

 

 

Lastly, to attest to her character for those that know cluster B. I am 99% sure she has never cheated. I am almost certain, as typical, her cluster B traits stem from her abuse. She had extreme PSYCHOLOGICAL abuse on top of SEXUAL abuse. I will always love her. I have been too weak to accept her death on my shoulders, and I would have blamed myself in the past. THIS IS HARD FOR ME EMOTIONALLY.

[beach]

She's working to recover.

 

Addiction affects the whole family.

 

What are you actively doing to overcome your codependency? What help are you getting for your kids who have to be affected by her disease?

[Mr. Lucky]

Joe, based on your experience in the mental health field

If you're in this field, you know that addicts don't "recover". At best, they don't use for some period of time with those stretches typically bookended by relapses. Like you, I've watched this battle rage back and forth from up close, in my case with one of my adult children.

 

Selfishly, you have to ask yourself if you're willing to have this be the tentpost around which the rest of your life will be built. Very personal decision, hope you find peace either way...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Downtown]

To be more clear she exhibits traits of many DSMIV cluster B disorders. I have not kept up on DSMV and do not know actual changes as opposed to proposed changes.

Joe, in Dec 2012, the APA's Board of Trustees rejected the changes proposed for personality disorders. They felt that more empirical research was needed before making such sweeping changes. Hence, the ten PDs you saw in DSM-IV are still present in DSM-5. Moreover, the proposed dimensional approach has not yet replaced the categorical approach to diagnosis. If you are interested, there is a good explanation of what happened at What's New in DSM-5 Personality Disorders.

 

She is on one of the most effective med combos for these disorders.

Because PDs are believed to arise from a stunted emotional development -- not from changes in body chemistry -- there are no meds I know of that are prescribed for treating the PD itself. Yet, because PDs invariable are accompanied by co-occurring "clinical disorders" (such as depression, GAD, bipolar, and PTSD), the meds are targeted to those comorbid disorders. It thus would be a big mistake, I believe, to think that your W's PD traits will be substantially improved by the meds. If she exhibits strong BPD traits, for example, the meds likely will do little (or nothing) to make her trust you, control her impulses, control her own emotions, stop the self loathing, or avoid black-white thinking. Those emotional skills -- which the rest of us learn in childhood -- cannot be acquired by swallowing a pill. Rather, years of therapy usually are required.

 

I have been too weak to accept her death on my shoulders, and I would have blamed myself in the past. THIS IS HARD FOR ME EMOTIONALLY.

Likewise, my BPDer exW threatened suicide many times. When very depressed, she sometimes would walk to a nearby tall bridge, knowing that I was following protectively about a hundred feet behind. When I stopped following her, she stopped going to the bridge.

 

Instead, she started going to the nearest subway station where she would call me from the platform just as a train was pulling in (so I could tell from the noise that she really was on the platform). She would say she is going to jump in front of the next train -- and then hang up. As with the bridge, I ran down to the subway station several times but, when I stopped going, she stopped going to the subway station. Clearly, she was doing all of that to simply control me. Even so, I never knew for certain that it was simply a manipulative tactic. So staying home and not responding was a very risky and painful thing to do. As you say, it was "hard for me emotionally."

 

If you would like to read more about my 15 years of experiences with a BPDer exW, I suggest you take a look at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that discussion rings some bells, I would be glad to discuss it with you. As I said earlier, some of the behaviors you describe sound like warning signs for BPD. I list those red flags at 18 BPD Warning Signs. Take care, Joe.

[2sunny]

Until she stays sober long term any diagnosis is just a guess.

 

You can't ACCURATELY diagnose a person when they've been "altered" most of their adult life.

 

You'd have a difficult time deciphering what behavior was caused by her drinking/using and which may be from a PD.

 

Can't "accurately pinpoint" a PD until the substance has been cleared for 30-60 days.

 

Lots of behaviors are caused by alcohol and drug use that would present as a PD.

 

Give her a few months clean to show who she really might be.

 

 

What are you doing to recover from your codependency. Most counselors would suggest keeping the controlling party out of the persons life for an extended time to see how the patient performs when no one is their to control everything.

 

She needs space. You need to refocus your energy while she gets well all on her own.

Edited September 16, 2014 by 2sunny

[JoeCool]

Well it has been awhile, but I thought I would give a small update. Things have gone pretty much as expected. She is not cooperating, and does not communicate. She elevated the discord the other night, and has forced me to require action. I am now demanding 50/50 custody of our children while she is recovering. Failure to comply will result in legal action. I don't know what to do, but I am concerned over my children and their environment. Her failure to communicate is of the greatest concern.

[2sunny]

If your W isn't sober then she is a danger to your kids.

 

Why haven't you taken 100% custody? I know they are older but that kind of "insanity" mixed with the "unpredictable" is detrimental to your kids.

 

Believe me when I say it will be THEIR sense of "normal" and they will seek that crazy "normal" out in a partner if you don't take a firm stand and show them based on principal that it is NOT NORMAL - that it is indeed completely unacceptable to live with someone like that!

 

You have an opportunity to teach your kids a life lesson - every action has consequences - and this is a consequence to drug abuse.

 

Those kids should not be living with her for one more minute.

[Mr. Lucky]

She is not cooperating, and does not communicate. She elevated the discord the other night, and has forced me to require action.

What exactly did she do?

 

Mr. Lucky

[beach]

What exactly did she do?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

And what does elevated discord mean?

 

And what action did you take?

 

Please finish your thoughts clearly so we aren't left guessing.

[JoeCool]

She has been clean for about 8 weeks. My children have stated that they have not observed Mom behaving as if she was impaired. She also has regular surprise screenings.

 

 

(more info as requested)

We had been in a disagreement for several days. I attempted to contact her and she was acting irrational. I told her I was coming over to get an important item, as I did not trust her judgment. She contacted the police prior to my arrival. The police were as perplexed as I was as she had not talked to me via phone/person for over four hours. I told her either we settle this in a defined timeline or I file for divorce seeking full legal and parental custody in the coming week. I have also demanded 50/50 custody in the meantime, which she gladly agreed to. Currently, she is breaking through her fear, and coming to the realization that she cannot ignore the situation.

 

 

Overall, I am still uncomfortable and very concerned. My eldest two children (both older teens) have requested I make all possible attempts to save our marriage prior to divorce. They feel as if their mom is improving, but her friends are a negative influence which may be interfering with our marriage. I am overloaded, and just getting tired of the drama. I am making adjustments to address my anger, and they seem to be improving the situation.

 

 

From my knowledge of rehab, and recovery. I peg the odds of our marriage lasting at well less than 10% if this is not resolved within the next month or two. There are too many negatives in our past, and she will never be able to face me if we are not living together. I have a limited window to act where I can force 100% custody without a potential protracted court battle. I am making all necessary plans for either option. I do not want to move the kids from their school at this point.

 

 

I understand my actions are not fully rational, especially to outsiders that are just seeing my typed story. My wife is a good woman with definite mental health issues. I have stood by her for almost twenty years with our ups and downs. She has made great strides over the last four years, with many ups and downs. She is finally facing her true issues, and I would not feel ok without giving her this last chance. This is the turning point in her life. She will make a choice that will effect her until she dies. I cannot just give up on my wife of almost twenty years. My kids want both parents first, myself second, and my wife third. I am attempting to do as my eldest requested of myself. They miss their Mom as much as their Dad. She was not always as bad as she was this past summer/year. She is accepting responsibility and is in an intensive outpatient rehab program.

 

 

I am trying to give as much info as I am comfortable. Please realize I do not wish my identity to be inferred.