Never-married men over 40

[Zapbasket]

Eharmony is supposedly tailored to marriage minded people. I'd imagine church would be a place to go as well to find a husband.

 

I hate church, and I don't tend to click well with overly "church-y" people.

[carhill]

Thanks, Carhill, for such a thoughtful and thought-provoking post.

 

I'll ask you the same question I asked Ninjapajamas--how should I go about this "scrutiny" of 40-something guys online and IRL? What are flags to look for (the less obvious ones), and what are fair and potentially informative questions to ask?

 

My main relationship mistake that has led me to be 37 and still unmarried is spending far too long with the wrong guys, thinking they'll change. Hence this thread as I want to be much, much more proactive in weeding out guys who don't want what I want, or aren't ready for it, or are too psychologically tangled up to be able to achieve it even if they "want" it.

I think, in some ways, you answered your own question, in that you apparently fell in love with and invested in aspects of the men you became involved with, as opposed to, and being accepting of, the whole person. We're all imperfect beings and some imperfections mesh more healthily than others. They compliment each other.

 

As far as scrutinizing a potential partner, IMO, one, get to the real as quickly as possible, if not initially meeting in person. Spend as little time in virtual communication as possible. Press flesh.

 

Two, people reveal themselves. All we need to do is let that happen and accept those revelations as authentic in their time and place. If 'hmm' moments come up, that's OK! Accept them. If they're anomalies, it'll become evident. If a pattern, that. By grounding in the real, it's easier to avoid falling in love with potential or bits of a person.

 

Lastly, a person's chosen friends and family interactions speak volumes as to their choices in life. An older unmarried man should have a substantial social circle, just as a function of life, and, where alive, family. What is the man's perspective on such relationships? How does he interact in social situations? How does he speak of and/or interact with his family?

 

The remaining variable is you. How do you mesh with what you observe and experience? In that pursuit, knowing yourself is paramount. Your strengths, your weaknesses, your joys, your sorrows, your friend and family dynamics. If things 'fit', they do. If not, not. Whatever the answer is, accept it and move forward.

 

Reading your thread caused me to reflect on all of my (small number of) LTR's. All were with women at distance, and this over many years, and I had to immerse in those distant demographics to identify with and understand those women. In some cases, it was a short drive. In others, a short flight. In others, sleeping on a plane going to a distant part of the planet. This leads me to one other suggestion. An older man who's truly motivated to be in a committed and loving relationship will leave no stone unturned and no challenge unmet in his quest. You'll sense this determination in him. What remains is whether there's a fit or not. Only time and interaction can tell that story. Life.

[Mister Zen]

Just typing the first thing that came to mind:

 

Maybe because they're tired of emotionally stunted men who put in minimal effort to keeping the relationship healthy and alive.

 

There are a lot of women out there who suck, too, when it comes to having the integrity to follow through with a commitment.

 

This thread never was meant to be a man-versus-woman thing. It just happened that I am a woman, looking into a vast pool of single men and because I really do want a committed long-term partner with whom to share a joyous, adventurous life and to create a loving family, I really want some guidance. Especially because I have been pretty burned in my relationships, believing there to be more commitment than there actually was and putting far more effort into upholding the relationship than the other person. I was loyal to a fault, because in my behavior I loved the other person more than myself.

 

No more.

 

Well I don't think its as complex as you make it sound. I think the best advice anyone can give you is this:

 

1. Be yourself and seek someone who shares your values

 

2. Acknowledge your own flaws and stop acting like the men were 100% of the problem. Figure out what you are doing wrong and fix it.

[Zapbasket]

Well I don't think its as complex as you make it sound. I think the best advice anyone can give you is this:

 

1. Be yourself and seek someone who shares your values

 

2. Acknowledge your own flaws and stop acting like the men were 100% of the problem. Figure out what you are doing wrong and fix it.

 

If you look at the threads covering some of my long-term relationships, you'd see that before I ever was able to recognize the negative contribution of the other person to the problems in the relationship, I exclusively blamed myself. I spend plenty of time examining my own flaws, and feel very much I've earned the right to say that the guys I was with were hardly prizes, and yeah, they DID sabotage the relationship to a pretty great degree. And I stuck around and put up with it.

 

I don't think any of it is as simple as YOU make it sound. Look how many people ASSUME shared values based on this and that and it turns out their values are worlds apart. And "be yourself" is great in a Nike ad, say, but for those of us who tend to be more accommodating and flexible in relationships than we probably should, it's a pretty elusive piece of advice.

 

I make it sound complex because it is complex. The very presence of LS bears this out.

[Ninjainpajamas]

So if I may, I'd like to get down to business, with your help: You say women don't know how to ask men good questions. So, what are the good questions to ask? I'm sitting at your feet, eager to learn. No sh*t. I've been WAAAY TOO NICE thus far in my dating life, I'm asking hard questions of myself...and I'm ready to start asking hard questions to dating prospects, as well. If they don't like it, then they're not for me and that's just FINE. So: what are the good questions that every woman serious about finding a good long-term partner should ask a man?

 

That would be the golden ticket wouldn't it?...I can see the private jet on the runway already.

 

Look, this requires an understanding of men in general to know what questions to ask and when, there is no magical golden list of what to ask and when, you have to be able to establish a rapport with a man and not come off in an interrogation like manner.

 

To make matters more difficult, it's pretty obvious to men what most women are looking for, and some are highly skilled with their evasive answers in hand to out maneuver every and any question you ask and they can easily lie, leaving you no better off.

 

You need to ask good questions within a context of a conversation, you need to be able to ask leading questions that inspire a man to talk and reveal the truth, you can use humor or and keep it light...it's a skill of conversation, not a magic list of questions that always guarantee a positive outcome.

 

Not to mention however a conversation is personal and about rapport and trust. If you cross a boundary too fast, some people will just shut down...you have to know the limit.

 

Things you're looking for are dating history (please, don't be one of those fools where past is the past and something to be ignored, relationship minded men are usually with a history of relationships), compatibility - lifestyle, prior relationship experience, and you need to know what good long-term relationship material even is for yourself and you need to be able to combine all of that into a process of elimination...being able to filter out and trust your gut about whether someone is being genuine and sincere or not, and any other red flags.

 

The problem with women is they often get swept up into the emotional aspect of it, therefore throwing away all sense of logic and just becoming emotionally engrossed in the experience. They start becoming insecure, doubting themselves, they become more self-critical than critical about the men they are dating and are afraid to make concrete moves and decisions and that affects their entire posture and position in the dynamic of the "relationship" for lack of a better word.

 

Whatever mistakes you're making in your dating life is also contributing to your own problems... if you are too passive then you need to be more assertive, or if you're just plain too shy or unaware of how to to even engage in those conversations, if you're unable to bring up those kinds of conversations with tact or without over-thinking it...just an example, those things can all impede on your progress with men and make you waste more time with a guy than you should.

 

People like really simply solutions to these kinds of problem, but the reality is they require a certain level of understanding to be successfully executed...or else no advice in the damn world is going to do you any good.

 

 

Oh.. and one more thing. If your claims are correct that women are more inclined towards commitment.. why then are the vast majority of divorces initiated by women?

 

I don't know whether that's true or not because I really don't care either way. But I'll offer a possible explanation anyway.

 

Because women often go into these situations full of hope and believing they can change a man...thinking that once they accomplish this goal and then that goal, by then things will have changed or developed into this idealistic situation where everything is now great.

 

They also make mistakes because they're not self-aware and grown-up, marrying the wrong men as a different person then finally outgrowing that relationship by growing into someone else, realizing that they were compelled by other reasons to be with that person than what they initial thought.

 

Many women tend to make decisions within moments and engrossed in emotion also...they don't always think or want to think about what the consequences will actually be, they'd rather take the chance and go with the flow..in fact many thrive off not thinking about anything at all if they can help it, because for them it's just supposed to be simple, no effort, just love kind of thing...hence why they often make the same mistakes with men.

 

Once a woman has had enough though, she's had it...and it's usually after a long time of being unhappy. It takes a lot of women courage to leave a situation, so when a woman divorces a man, you have ask how much has she been through to get to that point.

 

Of course some women are selfish, mean and self-absorbed...once they've drained that flower of nectar they become disenchanted then desire someone else to suck the life out of...no matter how good the guy was to them and how much he did, in the end she didn't really love him.

 

...............

 

I need my beauty sleep everybody, have fun.

[Mister Zen]

If you look at the threads covering some of my long-term relationships, you'd see that before I ever was able to recognize the negative contribution of the other person to the problems in the relationship, I exclusively blamed myself. I spend plenty of time examining my own flaws, and feel very much I've earned the right to say that the guys I was with were hardly prizes, and yeah, they DID sabotage the relationship to a pretty great degree. And I stuck around and put up with it.

 

I don't think any of it is as simple as YOU make it sound. Look how many people ASSUME shared values based on this and that and it turns out their values are worlds apart. And "be yourself" is great in a Nike ad, say, but for those of us who tend to be more accommodating and flexible in relationships than we probably should, it's a pretty elusive piece of advice.

 

I make it sound complex because it is complex. The very presence of LS bears this out.

 

Well.. just because you acknowledged your own flaws exclusively in the past without finding solutions, doesn't mean you should take the opposite extreme and only acknowledge the man's flaws. Why can't you do both?

 

Regarding the "be yourself" advice. I think its more "know yourself". If you don't know what you want and what you expect, then you probably won't find it.

 

Everyone should be flexible in relationships. But at the same time, you should maintain your identity and be honest about where you stand on all issues.

 

It took me a long time to learn this as well. Which is why I date a lot less than I used to. I'm a lot more selective. And who knows.. maybe I'll make it to 40 without getting married because I chose being single over being in a bad relationship. And then people like you will judge me for it.

[Mister Zen]

I don't know whether that's true or not because I really don't care either way. But I'll offer a possible explanation anyway.

 

Its called "Google". And if you're going to argue about something then you should probably care about what you're arguing about.

 

Because women often go into these situations full of hope and believing they can change a man...thinking that once they accomplish this goal and then that goal, by then things will have changed or developed into this idealistic situation where everything is now great.

 

They also make mistakes because they're not self-aware and grown-up, marrying the wrong men as a different person then finally outgrowing that relationship by growing into someone else, realizing that they were compelled by other reasons to be with that person than what they initial thought.

 

Many women tend to make decisions within moments and engrossed in emotion also...they don't always think or want to think about what the consequences will actually be, they'd rather take the chance and go with the flow..in fact many thrive off not thinking about anything at all if they can help it, because for them it's just supposed to be simple, no effort, just love kind of thing...hence why they often make the same mistakes with men.

 

Once a woman has had enough though, she's had it...and it's usually after a long time of being unhappy. It takes a lot of women courage to leave a situation, so when a woman divorces a man, you have ask how much has she been through to get to that point.

 

Of course some women are selfish, mean and self-absorbed...once they've drained that flower of nectar they become disenchanted then desire someone else to suck the life out of...no matter how good the guy was to them and how much he did, in the end she didn't really love him.

 

...............

 

I need my beauty sleep everybody, have fun.

 

More of your "Men are horrible...women are perfect" stuff? I'm getting bored.

 

And you never answered my question about how you justify men being "flawed" for following their natural wiring. How convenient.