Still some issuses between us after her affair

[Friskyone4u]

Your wife is not remorseful. She lied to you and betrayed you and now you are supposed to just blindly trust her. And screw her friends who probably cheered her on and even helped her lie to you. Do not even listen to that crap.

Workplace e affairs are the hardest to catch, and the hardest to break up.

You have no way to know what is happening and cannot monitor their work e mail and conversation

That is why any book you read on this subject puts leaving the job at the top of list.

I would

(1) make sure you have exposed it to OM spouse if he is married. Do not tell her you are doing it. Just do it

(2) put a VAR in her car and GPS on i

(3) give her divorcee papers from your attorney. You can stop it any time you want right now, she is dictating to you the terms of your R, counting on you to cave in. She lost the right to be in control when she ****ed him.

She is probably still in this affair emotionally which is really why she is adamant.

You should tlell her either she looks for another job or another husbandd

[fellini]

I beg to differ... from experience:

 

Your wife is not remorseful. She lied to you and betrayed you and now you are supposed to just blindly trust her.

 

Blind trust is what allows precisely what a BS does NOT WANT or NEED.

 

And screw her friends who probably cheered her on and even helped her lie to you. Do not even listen to that crap.

 

Cheered her on? That would need to be discovered properly. One does not need to cheer one on to be an enabler. It's more subtle. It's the inertia in not knowing if one should get involved or not. In my case, I had to explain to the "best friend": as a friend of my WS I'm not saying you should have contacted me, for my sake, you should have contacted me for HER SAKE. Most best friends don't realise this until after DDAY. They they wish they had done more to prevent it.

 

Workplace e affairs are the hardest to catch, and the hardest to break up.

 

The reverse. They are the most obvious and easiest to catch. I don't think you speak from any statistical norm here. My WS's A was the EASIEST to break up. It was over within two hours of disclosure. Not another word has been spoken between them. Full NC, full withdrawal, total under the bus. AND SHE CONTINUES TO WORK IN THE SAME BUILDING. 17 months total NC, no LC: NC and they work in the same building, worlds apart. It's possible even if you cannot bring yourself to believe it.

 

You have no way to know what is happening and cannot monitor their work e mail and conversation

 

I am fully aware of what is happening. I am monitoring her work email, and her phone and have her movements. There is no problem with this, it has nothing to do with workplace.

 

 

That is why any book you read on this subject puts leaving the job at the top of list.

 

I have read no fewer than 15 books on infidelity and I have never seen Leaving THE Job on the top of the list. Since we have probably read the same books, I would love to know the titles of those you claim make this the number one or even the top ten priority. The number ONE on any list surely is go NC. NC means NC, so leaving the job is only one way to achieve NC, but it's not the same thing. NC is both a physical and emotional disconnection from the AP. If a WS achieves an emotional disconnection, and maintains that, leaving the job is no longer necessary, imho, if the conditions for workplace allow NC, naturally. Of course if her desk is right across from the AP and that is the condition of her work, then clearly she will not be able to achieve NC at the workplace and should leave her job. Not the other way around.

 

I would

(1) make sure you have exposed it to OM spouse if he is married. Do not tell her you are doing it. Just do it

 

(This would more than likely be the top on the list, like NC, not leaving the job.)

 

 

(2) put a VAR in her car and GPS on i

 

(GPS on the iphone is pretty effective, but only if the WS is unaware of it, because awareness will change the strategies.)

(3) give her divorcee papers from your attorney.

 

I'm of the mind that if you point a gun at someone, it's because you are prepared to use it. Divorce is the same. If it's a strategy to get a result, Im not for it, there are better strategies. If it is because you genuinely feel that divorce is the only way to move forward, then do it. But to use divorce as emotional blackmail seems to me to be counterproductive to making a marriage work. It might be a great way to get "power" back, but I think most people will find having the upper hand on a WS will have only short term results and does not result in genuine reflection on the part of the WS, it results in FEAR and PANIC mode and those are not convincing to me if what I really want is to know if the marriage has a future.

 

 

You can stop it any time you want right now, she is dictating to you the terms of your R, counting on you to cave in. She lost the right to be in control when she ****ed him.

She is probably still in this affair emotionally which is really why she is adamant.

You should tlell her either she looks for another job or another husbandd

 

 

 

 

It took a lot of time to get my WS past the fear of divorce in order to start to behave like a true SO again, even though she was NC. She was too afraid of making a false step, of screwing up in a volatile situation, to do things naturaly or properly in terms of the marriage. So you hold that card, expect your SO to act accordingly.

 

And in the end all you have left, if you look objectively at what you have, because of what you have done, is a SO who is jumping through YOUR hoops in the hope you don't divorce. Sorry, but if that is my marriage, it's already over.

Edited August 10, 2014 by fellini

[mikethemechanic]

I posted here about 3 months back asking for help and advice after finding out about my wife's affair, some really helpful advice which I put to good use but I still have problems with the after effects of the affair. One of the last things my wife admitted to me was that the OM works at the same company as her, I demanded that she leave as soon as possible because I could not contemplate the pair of them being together in any way at all. She though point-blank refuses to do this as she loves her job and has many long time friends there (some of whom knew about the affair going on for 2 years I might add), am I being unreasonable about this? I just don't think it's right for my wife and this man to see each other every day as though nothing has gone on between them let alone the possibility of the affair commencing again. My wife assures me that that will never happen and has promised me faithfully that nothing untoward will happen. I am trying to trust her again and

she says that I must trust her again for us to move forward in our marriage

, I'm really not sure about this at all and hope someone in a similar situation has dealt with this problem before.

tell her that mike says that he trusts the person it's the devil that he doesn't trust. Because if you dance with the devil the devil doesn't change he changes you.

[atreides]

I'm of the mind that if you point a gun at someone, it's because you are prepared to use it. Divorce is the same. If it's a strategy to get a result, Im not for it, there are better strategies. If it is because you genuinely feel that divorce is the only way to move forward, then do it. But to use divorce as emotional blackmail seems to me to be counterproductive to making a marriage work. It might be a great way to get "power" back, but I think most people will find having the upper hand on a WS will have only short term results and does not result in genuine reflection on the part of the WS, it results in FEAR and PANIC mode and those are not convincing to me if what I really want is to know if the marriage has a future.

I see your point on behavior of “living under the gun” is just that and perhaps not what would be natural or what a BS long term wants… genuine remorse and love.

My opinion is if there is cooperation to be transparent and willingness to work with the BS then divorce is not the way to go.

Usually I opt in opinion for divorce when the WS is too into the fog and not cooperating. The intent is not to bluff but to move forward from the cards dealt at that time which is an uncooperative unfaithful spouse. I (many on LS perhaps) focus only on one side of the dual result of divorce which is the result of shock value and taking the power back, but it is important to note… only in cases where moving forward as such because the WS is not really doing anything in the right direction… divorce is in my opinion the only means forward.

It took a lot of time to get my WS past the fear of divorce in order to start to behave like a true SO again, even though she was NC. She was too afraid of making a false step, of screwing up in a volatile situation, to do things naturaly or properly in terms of the marriage. So you hold that card, expect your SO to act accordingly.

 

And in the end all you have left, if you look objectively at what you have, because of what you have done, is a SO who is jumping through YOUR hoops in the hope you don't divorce. Sorry, but if that is my marriage, it's already over

 

 

I know I have held opinion and stand by it with uncooperative WS to peruse divorce and if things improve, it could always be stopped. But I would never agree to use it as a “bluff” only or a threat specifically to garner a certain response from the WS.

However, the way I see it specifically to just about “jumping through hoops”… I think is inevitable outside of using divorce or not… the WS has to earn their way back in… I guess I see jumping through hoops as NC, transparency on everything and so on.

I however do agree whole-heartedly that divorce for emotional blackmail is non-productive and just playing games… not rebuilding a relationship.

[HereNorThere]

I beg to differ... from experience:

 

 

 

 

It took a lot of time to get my WS past the fear of divorce in order to start to behave like a true SO again, even though she was NC. She was too afraid of making a false step, of screwing up in a volatile situation, to do things naturaly or properly in terms of the marriage. So you hold that card, expect your SO to act accordingly.

 

And in the end all you have left, if you look objectively at what you have, because of what you have done, is a SO who is jumping through YOUR hoops in the hope you don't divorce. Sorry, but if that is my marriage, it's already over.

 

In the end, you have a lot more faith in your BS than most people should have. Maybe your situation is different than most, but that's highly unlikely. Your wife lost nothing in her situation even though she put EVERYTHING on the line. A tenured professional career, an obviously loving husband and her reputation as an educator. She still works the same job with the same other man and has the same husband. So while you seem 100% certain of everything you have written, you have to understand that to most people it seems at best, wishful but bordering fool-hearty. I admire your capacity for forgiveness, but being able to forgive someone is not the same as coming to terms with the fact that your SO could do something like this. For most healthy people, the potential alone is enough to stop the relationship. We all have different boundaries and yours are more flexible that the average person. Hopefully your situation is different, but reconciliation isn't something to be taken lightly. If nothing changes, nothing is lost (except your peace of mind) some would argue that is rug sweeping.

[fellini]

In the end, you have a lot more faith in your BS than most people should have. Maybe your situation is different than most, but that's highly unlikely. Your wife lost nothing in her situation even though she put EVERYTHING on the line. A tenured professional career, an obviously loving husband and her reputation as an educator. She still works the same job with the same other man and has the same husband. So while you seem 100% certain of everything you have written, you have to understand that to most people it seems at best, wishful but bordering fool-hearty. I admire your capacity for forgiveness, but being able to forgive someone is not the same as coming to terms with the fact that your SO could do something like this. For most healthy people, the potential alone is enough to stop the relationship. We all have different boundaries and yours are more flexible that the average person. Hopefully your situation is different, but reconciliation isn't something to be taken lightly. If nothing changes, nothing is lost (except your peace of mind) some would argue that is rug sweeping.

 

I think you are confusing and conflating a lot of issues that have not been discussed. Faith in my WS is not the same thing as faith that she no longer has contact with the AP, not by a long shot. Of course I have all kinds of doubts about our future! What she did to me is unforgivable. I did not say here or anywhere else anything about forgiving her her affair.

 

My wife lost A LOT OF THINGS, not least of which is my trust. She lost her dignity, she lost a lot within her family, and more so among a number of our closest friends. She has lost a significant respect from 3 or 4 close colleagues who now know that "there was an affair" but little else. Her affair has nothing to do with her being a tenured prof, nor in which university she works, so I don't confuse her job with her affair. There is no shortage of men who would love to flirt with her, she is quite attractive, and she is quite successful professionally. One man did, and managed to catch her eye. There is nothing I can do about stopping that from happening again. I have have to live with that the rest of my life. But eyes wide open now, not shut.

 

I go with her to conferences, for example. I know how these things are with people who have never had affairs. They are the equivalent of the business trip for some. Too much disconnection from family and routine and too much good food and over drinking, and of course, being bombarded with affirmation from lecherous academics.

 

I don't think it makes sense to just toss out the baby with the bath water every time someone hurts us, albeit deeply. Im going to trust that this process is as important to her as it is to me, and see where it goes. But I am free and willing to walk out that door if and when I think that she has not addressed her issues.

 

Im just not one of those that thinks you can turn a cheating spouse on and off with a light switch, and her journey into fixing herself is going to take time, and requires her awareness to do so. I have to be as patient with her process of addressing her issues as she does with me. We have taken care of the AP issue. That door is closed. For now.

 

But of course she could get back together with him in some undetermined future.. a year two... when our daughter grows up. (She can swear to me til kingdom come that it wont happen but I do not have any choice to acknowledge that the future is unwritten). And hell knows in a year or two I might just walk telling her I cannot live anymore sleeping with the woman who has caused me all this pain and is triggering me continuously in bed. This has nothing to do with reconciliation. This is about the limits each of us has to live with ourselves knowing what we have become as a result of this tragedy. I know three people within my extended family that left their loving spouses for an old girlfriend they re-met at a high school reunion. How cliche can one get? Yet it continues to happen, even within marriages that have not suffered an infidelity. Either of us is capable of a huge mistake in our future. That's just how it is.

 

Im seeing those things. We are now no longer addressing the affair, but rather, her narcissism and issues with self esteem. Those are entirely for her to work on, and I will do what I can to help. But again, I don't see how any of that has to do with her working in a building where she had an AP and has completely abandoned him, and is in the process of cutting all academic and personal ties with those who consider him to be their good friend. This takes time.

 

What I want is to be dealing with US as a couple, now that we are over a year and a half beyond discovery, and put the affair behind us. Of course I need to work on trust issues, but there is very little I can consciously do about that with the past so vivid in my mind.

 

What I know I don't have is some kind of serial cheat just waiting to get back on her feet so she can go out and screw another guy so that she can screw once again her marriage.

 

I don't know why you think my boundaries are any different than anyone else's. I just happen to have intimate knowledge of her work situation, I know about 80% of the people she knows, and I know how her daily routine works. I have moved beyond the hyper invigilation phase but I am still alert. Although I realise it's more for me than for her. She is not going to risk this again. She does not want to risk this again.

 

And really, I have no idea why you have an undertone that my situation is either not compatible, or it is me. I am no different than any other BH in LS. I live a normal life, love my wife like any man should, and have wanted to beat the living daylights out of the POSOM like any normal healthy (as you call it) person would, and I have suffered over a year of grief, anxiety, doubt, extreme pain, loss, and total lack of self worth like any other.

 

I'm really at a loss as to why you and so many others don't listen to my words carefully, because they have never been so truthful in my life, just because they don't seem to speak the same language yours do. I'm not asking anyone to follow me, never have. I am only expressing how I see the world inside infidelity, and the SENSE I have tried to make of it. And if anyone thinks that this is rug sweeping then they are not reading what I am saying, they are only focussed on things they dont like to hear. Respectfully.

 

I say this because I have been told not fewer than 3 times in LS that I deserved to be cheated on. By "fellow" BS's.

Edited August 11, 2014 by fellini

[HereNorThere]

I think you are confusing and conflating a lot of issues that have not been discussed. Faith in my WS is not the same thing as faith that she no longer has contact with the AP, not by a long shot. Of course I have all kinds of doubts about our future! What she did to me is unforgivable. I did not say here or anywhere else anything about forgiving her her affair.

 

My wife lost A LOT OF THINGS, not least of which is my trust. She lost her dignity, she lost a lot within her family, and more so among a number of our closest friends. She has lost a significant respect from 3 or 4 close colleagues who now know that "there was an affair" but little else. Her affair has nothing to do with her being a tenured prof, nor in which university she works, so I don't confuse her job with her affair. There is no shortage of men who would love to flirt with her, she is quite attractive, and she is quite successful professionally. One man did, and managed to catch her eye. There is nothing I can do about stopping that from happening again. I have have to live with that the rest of my life. But eyes wide open now, not shut.

 

I go with her to conferences, for example. I know how these things are with people who have never had affairs. They are the equivalent of the business trip for some. Too much disconnection from family and routine and too much good food and over drinking, and of course, being bombarded with affirmation from lecherous academics.

 

I don't think it makes sense to just toss out the baby with the bath water every time someone hurts us, albeit deeply. Im going to trust that this process is as important to her as it is to me, and see where it goes. But I am free and willing to walk out that door if and when I think that she has not addressed her issues.

 

Im just not one of those that thinks you can turn a cheating spouse on and off with a light switch, and her journey into fixing herself is going to take time, and requires her awareness to do so.

 

Im seeing those things. We are now no longer addressing the affair, but rather, her narcissism and issues with self esteem. Those are entirely for her to work on, and I will do what I can to help. But again, I don't see how any of that has to do with her working in a building where she had an AP and has completely abandoned him, and is in the process of cutting all academic and personal ties with those who consider him to be their good friend. This takes time.

 

What I want is to be dealing with US as a couple, now that we are over a year and a half beyond discovery, and put the affair behind us. Of course I need to work on trust issues, but there is very little I can consciously do about that with the past so vivid in my mind.

 

What I know I don't have is some kind of serial cheat just waiting to get back on her feet so she can go out and screw another guy so that she can screw once again her marriage.

 

I don't know why you think my boundaries are any different than anyone else's. I just happen to have intimate knowledge of her work situation, I know about 80% of the people she knows, and I know how her daily routine works. I have moved beyond the hyper invigilation phase but I am still alert. Although I realise it's more for me than for her. She is not going to risk this again. She does not want to risk this again.

 

And really, I have no idea why you have an undertone that my situation is either not compatible, or it is me. I am no different than any other BH in LS. I live a normal life, love my wife like any man should, and have wanted to beat the living daylights out of the POSOM like any normal healthy (as you call it) person would, and I have suffered over a year of grief, anxiety, doubt, extreme pain, loss, and total lack of self worth like any other.

 

I'm really at a loss as to why you and so many others don't listen to my words carefully, because they have never been so truthful in my life, just because they don't seem to speak the same language yours do. I'm not asking anyone to follow me, never have. I am only expressing how I see the world inside infidelity, and the SENSE I have tried to make of it. And if anyone thinks that this is rug sweeping then they are not reading what I am saying, they are only focused on things they dont like to hear. Respectfully.

 

I say this because I have been told not fewer than 3 times in LS that I deserved to be cheated on. By "fellow" BS's.

 

 

Maybe it's a fundamental thing about life that you have that I don't. The word that sticks out the most to me is "faith". Faith is complete trust in something without material evidence and not something I would advocate for in most situations. The way you write things makes it seem like you a very, very sure of things that you really have no way possible of being very, very sure of. I am simply not capable of this.

 

You sound like an amazing person who really, really loves his wife. I hope that she has changed her ways and learned from the experience. I can honestly say, your reconciliation is beyond my capacity for forgiveness and certainly beyond any risk I'd be willing to take for another person. I'm so sorry you have to live with this for the rest of your life and hope that she can live up to the person you once thought she was. I know deep down you're a good dude just trying to do the right thing. Sadly, you'll always be the professor's husband that she cheated on as well. Accepting all the new, various roles cannot be easy.

 

As for boundaries, Infidelity is the number one cause of divorce, so yes, your boundaries are different than most. For most people, something this severe would be a deal-breaker. You are taking a risk on something that has already failed once and the indicator of future behavior is past behavior, so you know the odds are not with you. If there is a next time or you find out that NC has been broken at least it won't be as shocking the initial dday. No one ever deserves to be cheated on and if other posters wrote that, I'll apologize on their behalf because that's wrong.

 

By the way, not everyone is capable of cheating. I saw that you wrote that, but it's simply not true.

Edited August 11, 2014 by HereNorThere

[fellini]

By the way, not everyone is capable of cheating. I saw that you wrote that, but it's simply not true.

 

Well, you missed my whole phrase: everyone is capable of cheating, or NOT. Why leave out that?

 

Look, the poster said that only DEVIANT MALICIOUS people cheat.

I disagree.

 

Cheaters are cheaters, they do not have tobelong to any other group. They can be deviant, they can be kind, they can be rich, they can be poor, they can have self esteem problems, they can be arrogant, they can be powerful they can be weak. IT doesn't matter.

 

ANYONE can CHEAT or NOT CHEAT. They need no other criteria.

In fact there are some people who are capable of cheating, and do not.

There are some people who believe themselves incapable of cheating, and then cheat.

There are some people who believe themselves incapable of cheating, and they do not cheat.

 

It has nothing to do with being DEVIANTS.

[HereNorThere]

Well, you missed my whole phrase: everyone is capable of cheating, or NOT. Why leave out that?

 

Look, the poster said that only DEVIANT MALICIOUS people cheat.

I disagree.

 

Cheaters are cheaters, they do not have tobelong to any other group. They can be deviant, they can be kind, they can be rich, they can be poor, they can have self esteem problems, they can be arrogant, they can be powerful they can be weak. IT doesn't matter.

 

ANYONE can CHEAT or NOT CHEAT. They need no other criteria.

In fact there are some people who are capable of cheating, and do not.

There are some people who believe themselves incapable of cheating, and then cheat.

There are some people who believe themselves incapable of cheating, and they do not cheat.

 

It has nothing to do with being DEVIANTS.

 

de·vi·ant adjective \-ənt\

: different from what is considered to be normal or morally correct

[Appreciate]

Fellini's approach is different than most here. It's more thoughtful but many of the rest of us see it as very risky or not "tough love" enough because it doesn't take into account the mechanics of a cheater's mind. His strategy appears to have worked, maybe it is riskier, but he's aiming at the health of the marriage he says. I think he makes a good point about not letting the WS not perceive you as a 'parent' 'guardian' or even 'enemy' if you really want to R.

 

So he's been able to accept that he'll be the professor's husband who got cheated on. You're making an assumption that people will view him and his wife negatively. If it's simply an issue of pride, there would never be a thing such as reconciliation. Which would be sad, because cheating does not HAVE to be the end of a marriage ... do you think people will learn more or less through R? He makes a very good point about the Best Friend not doing the right thing.

[Sugar Magnolia]

NO, absolutely NO,,,, it will happen again , without doubt.. I can't believe she is trying that one.... she still has feelings, big ones for him...IMO... stand your ground

[fellini]

Fellini's approach is different than most here. It's more thoughtful but many of the rest of us see it as very risky or not "tough love" enough because it doesn't take into account the mechanics of a cheater's mind. His strategy appears to have worked, maybe it is riskier, but he's aiming at the health of the marriage he says. I think he makes a good point about not letting the WS not perceive you as a 'parent' 'guardian' or even 'enemy' if you really want to R.

 

So he's been able to accept that he'll be the professor's husband who got cheated on. You're making an assumption that people will view him and his wife negatively. If it's simply an issue of pride, there would never be a thing such as reconciliation. Which would be sad, because cheating does not HAVE to be the end of a marriage ... do you think people will learn more or less through R? He makes a very good point about the Best Friend not doing the right thing.

 

Yes, you have captured the essence of my current thinking.

 

I would add that we have probably to accept that either our cheating spouses have cheating minds or remorseful minds. If it is the former, then it seems to me to be a huge waste of time to reconcile at all, you are acting only as a dog owner waiting for your "mans best friend" to go into heat. If its the latter, that you have strong behavioural indicators of remorse, then the sooner you focus on the mechanics of the marriage the better. But i do not claim that this happens anywhere near DDay. I have already said elsewhere that i do not question that there are 2, not one R's: Recovery and reconciliation. They are very different beasts in my book, and although i do not see them as two stages with fixed ends and beginnings I do think that the BS must have passed through some real recovery before the idea of reconciliation, can be taken seriously. And in fact, so must the WS pass through a phase of recovery of their own. In our case my recovery - sufficient that i could have clarity of mind and operate not from the blast of infidelity but from my conscious decisions, took about 3 months. My WS needed about 6.

 

The public factor of our crisis is the opposite of what HereNorThere suggests. My friends - those who know me are amazed that we are working on this, are rooting for us, and don't see me in that negative light. I should imagine that those that are aware of the A who are friends of the AP are more likely to think less highly of him for demonstrating his selfish qualities for willingly entering into this horrible mess as one of the key players. They see a man they once admired as pathetic indulgent man who has no remorse in f--cking with another mans life, wife, child and marriage. And the fact that they all know he is a BS himself who lost his WS to her AP makes him even more pathetic.

 

I dont fear that people will judge me by the weaknesses in my wife, but rather by the strength I have shown to get past it and move forward and find peace and happiness in what is clearly my life and no one elses to live.

[Appreciate]

Fellini, can you describe how your wife dealt with your pain during the recovery period? Was she able to understand triggers, the depth of betrayal, etc and help you?

 

It could be beneficial for OP to hear what that is like, as opposed to all the hate being spewed.

[fellini]

Fellini, can you describe how your wife dealt with your pain during the recovery period? Was she able to understand triggers, the depth of betrayal, etc and help you?

 

It could be beneficial for OP to hear what that is like, as opposed to all the hate being spewed.

 

Perhaps some observations that I learned along the way...

 

The OP says this: "My wife assures me that that will never happen and has promised me faithfully that nothing untoward will happen. I am trying to trust her again and she says that I must trust her again for us to move forward in our marriage, I'm really not sure about this at all and hope someone in a similar situation has dealt with this problem before."

 

Obviously the first thing is not to get tied down with promises about the future. There is zero trust in promising a future condition. My WS promised me the same. When I had a little more clarity I thought about this and realised that before DDAY, it was the same. She had promised me, in her own mind, by committing to our marriage, that she wouldn't cross a line. And she did. Obviously my wife is not an infant and knew that she was doing something completely unacceptable, and in fact was warned twice by surrogate consciousness friends, that this was going to result in losing her husband, marriage, perhaps even the respect of her only child.

 

Did this stop her? Not in the least. So what is the real point in getting someone to promise, yet again, that something will "not happen" when we know that these are always hollow promises. She can no more promise me what her future will be with her AP than I can say Ill be at a corner of the street at noon tomorrow. It is not entirely in our hands to predict the future.

 

So what did I want from her: NC and a new set of behaviours in the workplace. (My wife continues to work in the same Faculty as her AP, but has zero contact (from her end - he tried to slip in some light contact two or three times and we dealt with that swiftly). In order to understand what I was going through, the depth of the betrayal, she has read everything I have read: 2 volumes of Langley, Glass, a couple by Mira Kirshenbaum, Esther Perel, Emily Brown, Michelle Scheinkman, all kinds of therapies, we explored self hypnosis audio downloads, I wrote volumes of precise issues I was feeling etc., and shared it with her, IC a couple of times, a lot of talk about the triggers, what they were, what they meant, how they felt, a lot of talking talking talking. And discussion about expectations.

 

We also did a 30 day structured separation once I felt, as I indicated in a previous post, that I was lucid, and found that she had spent so much time being there for me, with me, through my pain, that she had not done enough recovery and closure on her own issues, and more importantly, her emotions she had experienced with him. This was necessary for her to come back into the family fold.

 

In other words, she was there with me, for me, and experienced as much of the battle I had as is possible for another human being to experience when it is not them going through it. And, of course, she experienced the pummeling emotionally that I was frequently giving her in moments of absolute torment, calling her a c--t, every name in the book, reminding her every day, ni, every hour or two that she walked out on her 8 year old daughter who loved her unconditionally. And she has had to live with the destruction of certain aspects of our intimacy that continue to haunt and disrupt our ability to recover our freedom sexually with each other. This is regrettable, inevitable, and may or may not disappear, but livable.

 

I think, looking back too, at her own recovery, I would have, should have, created somehow, somewhere, a space in which she could grieve her own loss (the AP) This might be something to think about for others. Glass talks about it, but I understand why a BS does not much want this, almost no one talks about this in LS: the WS must also grieve their loss in order to find closure or move on from the A.

 

One of the most important works, other than Langley, in my case, was the article on the Cost of Forgiveness which we explored together (https://www.affairrecovery.com/newsletter/founder/cost-of-forgiving-infidelity#comment-12532)

 

But you know. Talk is talk, and really the important thing is to look at the behaviours: big and small.

 

And as I have been saying above. The real test is to let go of it all, and just let the WS operate without conditions, threats, ultimatums, because that is really the only way that any marriage is going to work.

 

And I ask you too to understand that I am not a "success story" by any means. The road is cleared of a considerable amount of debris, at least, the debris from affair fallout. But we have much to do, and more issues to solve (not the least of which is her narcissism - a point that may well end our marriage anyhow!) but if there is one thing I would leave here, that is one must separate, at some point, the risks of an infidelity, from the risks that anyone must take, in terms of sharing a life with another. The risks do not go away, and to try to use the affair to eliminate all those risks seems to me to be unfair, and doomed to failure.

 

We all want trust back, but trust is not about a future bright and guaranteed. We still must live in risk, or we can die in our safe mediocrity.

Edited August 15, 2014 by fellini