Open Marriage

[soccerrprp]

Hi everybody just signed up this this forum as I am interested in expanding my understanding regarding Open Marriage.

 

I have just finished reading an excellent book called "Sex at Dawn" by Christopher Ryan.

In some ways the book confirmed some of the things I had been thinking about. As a NLP therapist I have listened to hundreds of couples who have been struggling in their relationship, one only has to look at the global stats to realise that the monogamous model that has been accepted as the norm isn't working for most people.

 

I have been married for the past 38 years, been faithful to my wife and had little interest in looking outside my marriage for either sex of friendship, in saying that I am a sexual person who enjoys the company of women, most of my clients are women and as a general rule I seem to have a real connection with the opposite sex. I am 61, athletic, 5.10 & 170 lbs.

 

2 months ago I had a real connection, non sexual with a 32 year old Chinese women, she is attractive with a fabulous personality and body. I meet her several times at a local health spa and within 3 weeks she was wanting sex, which I refused; 38 years with the same women, you get the picture. This was clearly freaking me out, whilst at the same time our sex life had died 2 years ago, yet I also knew that things where changing in my own marriage

 

The real issue for me was honesty with my wife, so the journey began. Firstly let me say that I have no intention of leaving my wife, but I am interested in per sewing an open relationship. The 32 year old is totally open to it, so we will see where it all goes.

 

What I am convinced about is that the global model of marriage that we all know needs to change as do our core believes.

 

Your thoughts!

 

Well, that global model you disagree with NOW has been under brutal social/economic and moral bombardment for some time. It doesn't work for many b/c many (or most) are not in environments that permit monogamous relationships to in a healthy manner. As others have asked..what does your wife say (really) to this recent insight?

 

Hell, who needs marriage if what we're really seeking is extra-marital sex, promiscuity?

 

I think the VAST majority of women would disagree. Want monogamy. Men, or society makes it difficult for such.

 

OP, what happened 2-yrs ago? What changed that her sex drive or your sex life changed for the worse?

Edited August 3, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[notserene]

I've been married a long time and I don't see us ever doing this. We don't want to share. We create our own variety, within our marriage. I don't see anything wrong with it for other couples, if everybody knows the deal and genuinely is OK with it. But personally, I think a marriage should be protected. Involving other people seems dangerous. That other person is a variable that you can't control.

 

Many men seem to love their wives quite a bit and may even still be attracted to them, but they are interested in variety. The problem is that it's difficult for them to find another woman with whom to have truly NSA sex. The third party almost always seems to get emotionally attached unless she has a primary relationship to "go back" to. If she has another relationship you have to get the blessing of her SO and you have to deal with another man's sexual jealousy as well.

[oldshirt]

With respect... what would you advise he do? Stay celibate in his marriage?

Divorce and hit the dating scene at an age past 60 (which his wife likely doesn't want either)?

 

I don't think this is necessarily immaturity or midlife crisis. Real life is complicated and, to put it simply, not at all like it is portrayed in movies and fairy tales. This type of relationship dynamic happens frequently with middle-aged (and beyond) people that have been together for decades.. and it has been going on for a LONG time. I've known many elderly people who were married but lived varying degrees of separate lives (sometimes even in separate places)... and if you think they weren't engaging in physical intimacy with others you'd be fooling yourself. Perhaps it is because many younger people don't want to imagine middle-aged and seniors as being sexually active people (sometimes intensely sexual)... but the reality is that many still want a healthy and fulfilling sex life.

 

After 38 years it is quite possible for a wife or husband's love for their partner and desire for their happiness to be stronger than their own need for dominion over their partner's genitals and sexual satisfaction... especially if they themselves have lost interest in that part of the relationship.

 

Perhaps the wife may herself find a return of sexual desire or energy if she were to have a chance with a new partner. And perhaps a re-ignition of sexual chemistry between the OP and his wife is possible as a result of this new dynamic they are entering into.

 

 

Good post ^^^^

[Mr. Lucky]

I think after so many years of marriage, her he loosing her own drive - it is true love that she would still have sex with you and provide for your needs. You are so fortunate to have a wife who loves you this much.

 

I wonder if her love and/or fear of losing you is letting you get some on the side and have an open marriage. But if your open and honest and your wife has no issues with it - who am I to judge.

You've made two important points here which may have passed too quickly:

 

1). apexcone, I think you're giving up too easily on restoring the sexual dynamic between the two of you. If your wife truly loves you, she'll want to give. If you truly love her, you'll want to receive. You're not teenagers so attraction and desire don't have to be front and center in every physical act.

 

2). As Dichotomy pointed out, I can't help but wonder if your wife's agreement is fear based in ways she's not expressing or maybe even initially aware of. Once you dip your toe in the water here, no going back. As the saying goes, can't unring the bell. Will it be worth it?

 

Understand I'm "marriage-centric" so my input from that POV...

 

Mr. Lucky

[nycrunner]

Hmmm.. you're 61 and and 32 year old wants to have sex with you. Your wife isnt interested in sex. It's easy - make her an FWB. Just remember to contain the emotions and not leave the wife. It will be difficult to manage the emotions once it starts however you will need to be reminded that this is an FWB.

 

Have fun

[dichotomy]

Hmmm.. you're 61 and Your wife isnt interested in sex.

 

 

 

 

Just a fine point maybe - from what he says and I understand - his wife IS interested in sex from a standpoint of pleasing her husband. For what ever reason (age, medical) her own drive and enjoyment of it is not really there - but she does it anyway for him.... how many women (or men) so love and so want to please their spouse that they willingly and regularly take part in it when there not "in the mood for it". Its not like this is a sexless marriage, it just she is in a phase of not really being into it for her own drive. Maybe this will pass. Maybe someday ED or other medical issues will hit HIM as well.

 

I get that he is deeply disappointing and sad his wife is not juiced up and having mutiple O's anymore when they have sex...really I do get that...but she is still willing to have it with him as I understand from his posts.

 

Love is taking joy in anothers needs and wants. This man is SO lucky to have a woman like this, who still wishes to look out for his needs, after so many decades.

Edited August 2, 2014 by dichotomy

[Oberfeldwebel]

Thanks for your input and wisdom. This is a journey no doubt and I am looking forward to it. My wife and I sat down last night and had a 4 hr conversation, she is a very whole, balanced and mature person, who is 100% emotionally stable. We will move forward at a pace that works for all of us. I still love her immensely and nothing will change in our current relationship unless we are both in total agreement.

 

Don't know what stats you are looking at, but in the US the divorce rate has actually decreased over the past 10 years. Additionally, just because some marriage fail, it does not mean that open marriages work. I have yet to see anything to show that it is a better alternative. That does not mean it can't work in isolated incidents, but that is different than it being a good alternative for most of the population. For those that are raising children, I see it as being destructive behavior.

 

As for your situation, it is your business and if you and your wife agree, then that is what you two decided. Only time will tell if it will affect your relationship. There are a couple of things that you may want to consider before continuing. First you state that you are 60 she is 30. It is obvious what you get out of the relationship, but what does she get? Don't let your ego cloud your vision, she has a reason for selecting you.

 

By definition an open relationship allows both parties to have sex with others. How will you feel when your wife finds someone that suites her fancy? Her sexual desires may have diminished temporarily, but as time passes that may change. As you spend more time with your China doll, don't be surprised that she may get an offer or two herself. Women typically get hit on much more than men. How will you feel when she accepts an invitation? What you decide is completely up to you. Just be careful what you wish for in life, sometimes it comes true.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

I don't want sex with someone who is not into it and doesn't receive pleasure from it (and don't say my pleasure is what makes it worth it for them).

 

In addition he did state he is not attracted to his spouse anymore (and gave no further info as to the reasons).

 

My question though is and always will be why an attractive 32 yo wants a physical (only) relationship with a 61 yo. Add to that he did hold a position of power over her and ethically speaking there are issues.

[GingerVixen]

If you're not attracted to your wife anymore and if you don't want to have sex with her anymore, AND if you're attracted to the Asian lady, why don't you simply DIVORCE from your wife?

 

I will tell you why you're not doing it: you don't want the tiring process of divorcing from someone, you want to tell society you have a successful and happy marriage but at the same time you want to have sex with the Asian lady.

Sorry, OP, but you sound like a hypocrite. I just can't sympathize with your situation.

[oldshirt]

I don't want sex with someone who is not into it and doesn't receive pleasure from it (and don't say my pleasure is what makes it worth it for them).

.

 

Yeah there is just no comparison between being with someone that has an actual sex drive and is attracted to you and wants to be with you vs someone who agrees to masturbate you with their body now and then to shut you up.

 

 

.... no comparison at all.

[daisydook]

It appears that this forum is like so many others, lots of wise counsel and of course those who feel it part of their mandate to judge.

 

It's an interesting scenario I find myself in. Thank you to all those who have offered their wisdom and insight in to this challenging situation we find ourselves in.

 

There are a few great folks around these parts!

 

I was actually cheated on and to be honest, only when I started reading this thread, did I think "Hmmm. Maybe had he talked to me about things?! Would I have considered it?!?! Would it have changed anything had he asked for consent instead of asking for forgiveness?!"

 

I would look into the other side of things before pursuing this further. I would

be very curious to know how most couples end up, and how things work in a practical world, and would be looking into all the negative that can come of lifestyle changes of this magnitude. Its all fun and games until someone loses a husband.

 

I only wished my partner would have said something like this to me. We had a great sex life, and to all intents and purposes, a great everything for many, many years. Our life was moving along like we had planned. For the most part. The last year of our 9+ years together was rough, and only after I met his girlfriend, did I actually figure out why.

 

A few years into our relationship, he was hurt at work, badly. He ended up with a back injury, on really heavy pain meds, and our life kind of went to crap. By the time I left, he had been taking oral pain meds for 6-7 years. I was not without issues, but we were always dealing with his problems before my own. I did feel neglected at times. Neither one of us asked for this to happen to him. For many years, I wore a smile, and tried to be his rock. I found out he was leaning on someone else as well though. That's the short version!

 

I mean, is it something I considered when we were together? Not one bit. I never wanted to look outside my relationship, and always desired affection from him. Had he spoken to me and told me he was interested in pursuing an open relationship, I think we both could have been happy, had we talked. I was not completely satisfied with how things were going in the bedroom, and may have actually been open to this, or open to at least discussing it down the road. We had been speaking to Drs about finally getting his surgery done, and finally being able to deal with the long term addiction caused by these meds. I had no intention of ever leaving or straying from him and it was not too much for me to handle. I loved being his rock and loved him dearly. All I wanted was for him to be happy. Otherwise, our relationship was really amazing. We had a lot of really amazing years together, and I have been open to introducing other into our bedroom. I am not so much into being with others alone though.

 

I have but one concern, and that one concern is how your wife would react knowing you had this all set up before sitting down and talking with her about having an open marriage. I know you said your wife is fairly open to this, and you have spoken about this with her. Did you tell her this was ALL set up before you even asked her though? I see THAT being a problem, more than any of the other things. That part of the story would not get past me as your wife. Lol.

 

Did you feel this way before you met a willing participant, or have you felt this way for some time? Are you swayed at all to do this simply because this woman is attractive, and willing? Or would you be pursuing this lifestyle anyway?

 

I try to be an open minded soul! Lol. I really do. I think theoretically, this can work, but as a 30 year old woman, I cannot see anything interesting in a 61 year old man, other than his money and where he could take me. I mean, really. I'm being honest. It wouldn't be because I thought he was hot. As long as you are open to the possibility of having to pay this girls rent when she cant, go for it. Lol. I see no reason why an attractive 32 year old woman would want you. I am sure you are just wonderful... but youre 61. I want you to be as realistic as humanly possible here, and know I mean no harm. I do mean to open your eyes a little.

 

I would rethink this partner you have chosen, moreso than the lifestyle, to be blunt.

 

I wish you luck. I would tell your wife you have had this set up before you ever spoke to her. That part needs to be on the table too. Please dont pick and choose what you want to be honest about. You are already starting off on the wrong foot by doing so.

 

In reading your thread, I really do wonder how I would have reacted had he asked for consent, instead of forgiveness. This one is a thinker.

[daisydook]

Just be careful what you wish for. You just might get it all.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

I try to be an open minded soul! Lol. I really do. I think theoretically, this can work, but as a 30 year old woman, I cannot see anything interesting in a 61 year old man, other than his money and where he could take me. I mean, really. I'm being honest. It wouldn't be because I thought he was hot. As long as you are open to the possibility of having to pay this girls rent when she cant, go for it. Lol. I see no reason why an attractive 32 year old woman would want you. I am sure you are just wonderful... but youre 61. I want you to be as realistic as humanly possible here, and know I mean no harm. I do mean to open your eyes a little.

 

Sorry for all you went through, but as far as the thread goes, it is this paragraph the addresses the question. Sure he's in good shape and youthful, but he is 29 years older and all the 32 yo wants is sex? No she wants a father and more......

[jackslife]

I think the question of what this Asian woman wants is a very valid and important one. Unless your James Bond, beautiful, young asian women don't tend to throw themselves at 60 year old men just for sex...

 

... hopefully I'm wrong and my 60's could be something to look forward to.