Can't have female friends?

[AnneT1985]

Hi y'all!

 

 

How are you doing?

 

 

I have a question about something a family member of mine said. She is a married mom in her 40's. She told me she can't have female friends or work in a female oriented environment because "women are too competitive" and she has problems at work because "the guys all think she is hot and the women just hate it".

 

 

Any insights or reflections on this? I am genuinely interested in this psychology and haven't really experienced anyone telling me this in a very long time. Is this an insecurity thing on her part?

 

 

Thanks so much y'all! Have a good one! xx

[SummerDreams]

I don't find it that weird. I can't be friends with a woman as well, unless she is a relative or really close family friend. I don't trust a woman enough to get close to her. I really don't like this aspect of my character, but that's it. The reason is that I can easily read the cunning (if this is the word) of a woman and I can't deal with people who are not real and honest. As for what your friend said, it's common that women get jealous around really good looking women, may it be a simple jealousy like "God her hair looks awesome, I hate her for that" or a serious jealousy "I'm sure she'll try to steal my bf away from me cause she seems like a slut".

[AnneT1985]

Interesting! I've personally met only a few women like that, I have friends of both genders and the last time I heard someone claim all women had a jealous hate on for them was high school...regardless of their physical appearance.

[regine_phalange]

I think that most of the times it's related on needing to put more value on one's self. Most of the times I encountered this, the woman who coudn't have female friends was insecure and deep inside afraid of competition. In one case that I know deeper, the woman's father would always compare her to her girlfriends (eg if she got lower school grades, her father would say "but your friend X got so much better grade, why don't you do what she does?").

[imfine]

I don't find it strange. I work with women who hate any woman who is more attractive then they are. They will actually start gossip to hurt the attractive woman just to make themselves look & feel better. I've seen this in many other situations with different types of women outside of work as well. I could see why an attractive woman have trouble trusting other females. Of course when she realizes that the majority of her male friends just want to shag her, she'll have trouble trusting anyone.

[serial muse]

I think that most of the times it's related on needing to put more value on one's self. Most of the times I encountered this, the woman who coudn't have female friends was insecure and deep inside afraid of competition. In one case that I know deeper, the woman's father would always compare her to her girlfriends (eg if she got lower school grades, her father would say "but your friend X got so much better grade, why don't you do what she does?").

 

This is my sense too. I think in general you get back what you put out there.

[hotpotato]

Tbh I have issues with women, too. I have had women put me down within an earshot. "She has no shape (back in the days when I had a big butt)"

"She thinks shes cute"

"She thinks she can sing"

You get the picture.

 

There are women who will try to denigrate a woman who seems confident.

 

 

 

That being said, I wouldnt say that I cant have female friends. Also, being friends with a male has its own issues. For example, I had a male friend sexually haras me when he discovered I was dating someone.

 

I could make a case that I have more in common with men, but yet I dont have a lot of male friends. Ive even been called "brah."

[d0nnivain]

If you are an attractive accomplished woman, you do often encounter that. The secret is be nice / friendly to the guys in a buddy / professional way & find different women to hang out with. Not all women think every female interaction has to be about competing for the hottest guy in the room.

[MissBee]

Women like this tend to have issues...especially when they start saying things like they are soooo hotttt and every man wants them hence they just cannot be friends with women because of rampant jealousy. Ridiculous.

 

Lots of gorgeous, attractive women work in competitive environments with both men and women and still have friends. The difference seems to be those women are secure and aren't narcissistic while the other group overestimates their own beauty, importance, etc. and often have other issues of insecurity and their own competitiveness which they project on other women.

 

I agree with serial muse about getting what you put out. I think many of my female friends are very attractive women and they got on just fine in life and fine with other women, yet the two acquaintances I have who like to claim they cannot get on with other women, well let's examine their personalities further: One acquaintance has BPD but swears the reason she got kicked out of her doctoral program (claimed her advisor's wife was insecure and hated her, claims all her male students sexually harassed her), can't keep any job, why most women don't get along with her (she has no boundaries and constantly pushes up on people's bfs) is because she is sooo beautiful and in every instance mostly women feel threatened... err no...you're mentally unstable and your insecurities make you behave in overtly sexual and inappropriate ways and you also rub people the wrong way because you are abrasive, self absorbed and a drama queen, let's be real. The other friend who claims this also behaves in overtly sexual ways towards men, has a harem of male "friends" who all like her as more yet she keeps them around because they do things for her, she snubs her male friends gfs but hugs their bfs and kisses them and makes a show of it but pretends she doesn't remember the gfs names smh....then she turns around and says that all women are jealous of her and hate her because women are biitches...

 

Sorry...in my experience women who cannot get along with other women or who think all women hate them or are jealous reveal themselves to have issues. As many many other women more talented, more beautiful, smarter and more accomplished than them exist who seem to have female friends just fine, and the difference seems to be that these other women, even if some women are jealous of them, because they aren't insecure they don't even notice and don't allow it to ruin their lives. It's like the whole nonsense "hater" syndrome where people who have nothing noteworthy going in their lives get it in their minds that the whole world is watching and cares about them and that they have "haters"....

Edited June 26, 2014 by MissBee

[AnneT1985]

Thanks y'all. That's what I had been thinking too PP. It is impossible to have ALL women hate you because you feel you're hot and very rarely have I heard someone claim it. It does sound like some projection and comparing going on. I am sure there are competitive women but I have friends of different genders, cultures, education levels, looks etc who don't complain of having this blanket issue with one entire group of people (ie women).

Edited June 27, 2014 by AnneT1985

[AnneT1985]

The family member in my OP also claims she can't attend her kids school functions and didn't go to college because all the women are just hating on her and jealous of her. Yet in all likelihood that is the last thing on most people's minds the vast majority of the time I am sure.

[davidjhonson]

I feel very lonely because i have no any female friend.

[Lernaean_Hydra]

Women who say this are either lying to you or to themselves. They often like to claim that women are "catty" or "jealous" or "only like girly things" etc which is frankly ridiculous. If a woman has zero female friends or claims she can't get along with women the problem usually lies with her.

 

Trust me, no average woman walking around today is so beautiful, so amazing so WHATEVER that she automatially incites jealousy in the hearts and minds of women everywhere. If Heidi Klum, Angelina Jolie and Megan Fox (for example) can have female friends, trust me, Jessica the real estate agent can too.

 

Any woman of adult age generally comes to find that having only male friends comes with it's own unique set of problems. Aside from any sexual tension that may arise, men don't make the best platonic companions in the long run. Believe it or not, straight men are often worse at keeping secrets, dispensing advice and gossiping than old ladies.

 

I don't have a ton of female friends - then again I don't have a ton of friends period - but the ones I do have are some of the most important people in my life. I feel that any woman who says she cannot deal with other women has some deep rooted issues she needs to sort through and her lack of feminine friendships is not because alllll other women are catty, evil or hateful.

[mammasita]

Women who say this are either lying to you or to themselves. They often like to claim that women are "catty" or "jealous" or "only like girly things" etc which is frankly ridiculous. If a woman has zero female friends or claims she can't get along with women the problem usually lies with her.

 

Trust me, no average woman walking around today is so beautiful, so amazing so WHATEVER that she automatially incites jealousy in the hearts and minds of women everywhere. If Heidi Klum, Angelina Jolie and Megan Fox (for example) can have female friends, trust me, Jessica the real estate agent can too.

 

Any woman of adult age generally comes to find that having only male friends comes with it's own unique set of problems. Aside from any sexual tension that may arise, men don't make the best platonic companions in the long run. Believe it or not, straight men are often worse at keeping secrets, dispensing advice and gossiping than old ladies.

 

I don't have a ton of female friends - then again I don't have a ton of friends period - but the ones I do have are some of the most important people in my life. I feel that any woman who says she cannot deal with other women has some deep rooted issues she needs to sort through and her lack of feminine friendships is not because alllll other women are catty, evil or hateful.

Exactly this. The I can't have women/female friends line is bogus.

[tuxedo cat]

I suffer from this problem, but it's not related to my looks (I'm just "cute").

 

The only thing I've been able to conclude is that women are particularly vicious towards women who are insecure. I feel like it's some sort of ingrained pack mentality about rooting out the "weakest" member because I only notice it in groups--I never have issues with individual women.

[Taramere]

Hi y'all!

 

 

How are you doing?

 

 

I have a question about something a family member of mine said. She is a married mom in her 40's. She told me she can't have female friends or work in a female oriented environment because "women are too competitive" and she has problems at work because "the guys all think she is hot and the women just hate it".

 

 

Any insights or reflections on this? I am genuinely interested in this psychology and haven't really experienced anyone telling me this in a very long time. Is this an insecurity thing on her part?

 

I think going into a new working or social environment is often a difficult process. Some are very welcoming, but with others there can be an initiation of fire that most newcomers will encounter. Or just one or two colleagues that might be less welcoming than you would hope for. Internalising their behaviour is generally a mistake. Lots of people just have issues with new arrivals, don't like change, find it difficult to trust new people etc. It's not necessarily related to jealousy of, or competitiveness towards, the new arrival so much as it's just a difficulty in managing change generally (and that's a difficulty lots of people have).

 

I remember starting at a new firm, and the first face I saw - one of the secretary's - on my first day was the most unwelcoming sight ever. She had a look of absolute fury on her face that made my heart sink. I decided to avoid her as much as possible in the first couple of weeks. On the rare encounters I had with her I started to slowly realise that this was basically a nice but very anxious girl. I would pass the time of day with her here and there but still generally avoided contact - not because I didn't like her, but because I got the vibe that she found new people difficult to cope with.

 

Then gradually she started finding reasons to come into my office and would spark up conversations. As time went on we became friends, and she revealed that she did in fact have quite serious anxiety issues. So with that particular girl, while it would have been tempting to get defensive and think "she's jealous of me because of my role in this organisation" or whatever else, it really had nothing to do with me personally. She just always had difficulties in trusting new people and as long as you didn't get in her face and try to make her like you, eventually she'd start to feel more comfortable around you.

[serial muse]

I think going into a new working or social environment is often a difficult process. Some are very welcoming, but with others there can be an initiation of fire that most newcomers will encounter. Or just one or two colleagues that might be less welcoming than you would hope for. Internalising their behaviour is generally a mistake. Lots of people just have issues with new arrivals, don't like change, find it difficult to trust new people etc. It's not necessarily related to jealousy of, or competitiveness towards, the new arrival so much as it's just a difficulty in managing change generally (and that's a difficulty lots of people have).

 

I remember starting at a new firm, and the first face I saw - one of the secretary's - on my first day was the most unwelcoming sight ever. She had a look of absolute fury on her face that made my heart sink. I decided to avoid her as much as possible in the first couple of weeks. On the rare encounters I had with her I started to slowly realise that this was basically a nice but very anxious girl. I would pass the time of day with her here and there but still generally avoided contact - not because I didn't like her, but because I got the vibe that she found new people difficult to cope with.

 

Then gradually she started finding reasons to come into my office and would spark up conversations. As time went on we became friends, and she revealed that she did in fact have quite serious anxiety issues. So with that particular girl, while it would have been tempting to get defensive and think "she's jealous of me because of my role in this organisation" or whatever else, it really had nothing to do with me personally. She just always had difficulties in trusting new people and as long as you didn't get in her face and try to make her like you, eventually she'd start to feel more comfortable around you.

 

Great point. I'll elaborate on what I said earlier (that in general you get back what you put out there) - insecure people tend to think that others are talking/thinking about them far, far more than they actually are. I think the most important thing an insecure person can realize (and I include myself in this number) is that people care a LOT less about you than you think. If people are being jerks with no apparent reason, the vast majority of the time it's because they're just thinking about themselves and you happen to be in the line of fire.

 

And where being insecure comes into play is that it's harder to step back and have that perspective. That kind of speaks to what tuxedo cat was saying - I don't think people (I won't say women, because I don't think it's gender-specific) as a "group" are particularly harsh to insecure people; I think they just aren't particularly nice to them (whereas individuals might be). And that's what an insecure person wants.

 

Again, I'm speaking from my own experience - I still have to remind myself that it's not all about me. But when you do realize that, it's very freeing.

Edited July 1, 2014 by serial muse

[tuxedo cat]

Great point. I'll elaborate on what I said earlier (that in general you get back what you put out there) - insecure people tend to think that others are talking/thinking about them far, far more than they actually are. I think the most important thing an insecure person can realize (and I include myself in this number) is that people care a LOT less about you than you think. If people are being jerks with no apparent reason, the vast majority of the time it's because they're just thinking about themselves and you happen to be in the line of fire.

 

And where being insecure comes into play is that it's harder to step back and have that perspective. That kind of speaks to what tuxedo cat was saying - I don't think people (I won't say women, because I don't think it's gender-specific) as a "group" are particularly harsh to insecure people; I think they just aren't particularly nice to them (whereas individuals might be). And that's what an insecure person wants.

 

Again, I'm speaking from my own experience - I still have to remind myself that it's not all about me. But when you do realize that, it's very freeing.

 

I wish this were true but people are definitely harsher on the insecure. Also, the times in my life where I have sensed that others were talking behind my back I have always been right. For example at my most recent job I sensed that my superiors didn't like me but I convinced myself that I was just being paranoid....only to later discover they were constantly picking me apart with words far more cruel than l could have even imagined. The trick, I think, isn't pretending that it doesn't exist but learning not to care. Shielding yourself from criticism is actually worse in that your skin never thickens.

 

What I've learned is I can survive the vilest of insults. In my life I've been called ugly, useless, dumb, crazy, and a myriad of other lovely things. Despite it all I still believe in my own worth.

Edited July 1, 2014 by tuxedo cat

[hotpotato]

Great point. I'll elaborate on what I said earlier (that in general you get back what you put out there) - insecure people tend to think that others are talking/thinking about them far, far more than they actually are. I think the most important thing an insecure person can realize (and I include myself in this number) is that people care a LOT less about you than you think. If people are being jerks with no apparent reason, the vast majority of the time it's because they're just thinking about themselves and you happen to be in the line of fire.

 

And where being insecure comes into play is that it's harder to step back and have that perspective. That kind of speaks to what tuxedo cat was saying - I don't think people (I won't say women, because I don't think it's gender-specific) as a "group" are particularly harsh to insecure people; I think they just aren't particularly nice to them (whereas individuals might be). And that's what an insecure person wants.

 

Again, I'm speaking from my own experience - I still have to remind myself that it's not all about me. But when you do realize that, it's very freeing.

 

Sometimes they really are talking about you.

The worst is when they talk about you within an earshot...

 

Some women really are just mean.

[FitChick]

Women generally don't like other women who are more attractive. I am probably the exception because I feel more comfortable around younger and/or more attractive women because it's unlikely they will be jealous of me and try to sabotage me. I can appreciate the steps they take to stay healthy and look good since I do the same.

 

Women my age are generally frumpy, overweight and whiny. They want to believe it's due to their age, but since I'm their age or older, that clearly isn't the case. I try to avoid insecure women because they are nothing but trouble -- as men know!

[AnneT1985]

Women generally don't like other women who are more attractive. I am probably the exception because I feel more comfortable around younger and/or more attractive women because it's unlikely they will be jealous of me and try to sabotage me. I can appreciate the steps they take to stay healthy and look good since I do the same.

 

Women my age are generally frumpy, overweight and whiny. They want to believe it's due to their age, but since I'm their age or older, that clearly isn't the case. I try to avoid insecure women because they are nothing but trouble -- as men know!

 

You refuse to be friends with people who are "frumpy" or overweight or of a certain age? Interesting. Could this be why you experience trouble? I also disagree that all men feel the same way...that's not giving the entire male population much credit

Edited July 8, 2014 by AnneT1985

[littleplanet]

Well now,

Respectfully delivering my two cents' worth as a man:

 

It has been my experience in life, that women I've known who have a healthy spread of female/male friendships - tended toward big adult/womanhood/humanity and left that little girlhood behind, long ago.

I call that maturity.

I call its opposite arrested development.

 

it certainly does have its perfect match in the male gender side of things.

 

And I must say this:

True friendship between women, is something that has struck me over time as one of the more amazing gifts provided by humanity. Within my social circle, it is something that has earned my deepest respect.

Taught me a few things, too.

(co-operation, instead of competition)

[hotpotato]

Well now,

Respectfully delivering my two cents' worth as a man:

 

It has been my experience in life, that women I've known who have a healthy spread of female/male friendships - tended toward big adult/womanhood/humanity and left that little girlhood behind, long ago.

I call that maturity.

I call its opposite arrested development.

 

it certainly does have its perfect match in the male gender side of things.

 

And I must say this:

True friendship between women, is something that has struck me over time as one of the more amazing gifts provided by humanity. Within my social circle, it is something that has earned my deepest respect.

Taught me a few things, too.

(co-operation, instead of competition)

 

Is that really how guys think? I told a guy friend that had no girlfriends, and he was amazed. The last ex thought it was weird. This is the first time ive heard of it being called arrested development.

 

Some women are fine by themselves. Most of what I do or want to do does not require a second person. Really, I dont have a lot of friends, period. In fact, I could live out in the woods by myself and be fine.

 

Im glad youve seen the good friendships. The issues arise when the friendship is about to end.

 

So theres a different perspective.

[SummerDreams]

I only have a couple of female friends who are my mother's age. They're her friends actually but I like hanging out with them cause I know they see me as their daughter and there is no competition. I'm sure that even my beloved cousins would become wild tigers if in a hypothetical situation I would try to "steal" their husbands. I don't trust women cause I know they have two faces. And sadly I can see the second, hidden face of theirs and hell I don't like it.

[Aedra]

So with that particular girl, while it would have been tempting to get defensive and think "she's jealous of me because of my role in this organisation" or whatever else, it really had nothing to do with me personally. She just always had difficulties in trusting new people and as long as you didn't get in her face and try to make her like you, eventually she'd start to feel more comfortable around you.

 

I feel like you described me exactly. I go into a new environment and too often people, mostly women, misinterpret my sheer anxiety and terror as jealousy or snobbery. Something I am trying to work on, but feels like hell. As a result, I end up putting even more walls up in certain circumstances just to protect myself. It's really hard and I wish other women would stop thinking I am jealous of them, I'm a tomboy and couldn't care less if someone was uglier or prettier then me...its not highschool anymore. I think the OP's aunt is misinterpreting alot and is insecure herself.