Ending with OW and it is so hard.

[waterwoman]

jackslife - just wanted to apologise for being so acerbic earlier. It's not as if I can't see your POV - I want more than I have with H at times, I sometimes wonder if it's part and parcel of a long long relationship. But what you wrote about your wife really hit a nerve. I am 49, I have been through the menopause, I have experienced the physical changes it causes, H had an affair at the very worst time for me. It huri so so much - I can't tell you. I am beginning to recover myself - build my self-esteem, begin to look outwards again. We spent two years recovering our marriage and it seems to work - apart from the fact that I personally was still in bits. So the second recovery is starting (mine) and whether there is still a marriage at the end of it no-one can say.

 

Look at it this way. A woman spends her best years with a man. They support each other through thick and thin, they have a child, they share the ups and downs. Then when life plays it's usual trick on the woman and she is past her prime, the man decides he no longer wants her. Of course it isn't that simplistic but sometimes it sure as hell seems that way. Can you see it from your W's POV.

 

The lack of sex can and should be addressed. it's something you should both have tackled before - the menopause can makes a woman feel totally asexual, not because she wants to be but because she feels as if she is no longer a woman, no longer desirable. If her partner also shows no interest, in her, or in helping her address the problems, she just assumes that he also thinks she is no longer a woman, no longer desirable. You may well be past the point of fixing this but maybe there is a chance if you want it enough. Have you tried MC?

[jackslife]

[quote=Appreciate;5766922)

 

How do you want your son to see you later in life?

 

My first counsellor said that to me. My boy is 12 what will he think of me if I leave him and his mother or stay and watch me putting on a brave face. It is always children caught in the middle of adults playing silly buggers...

[fellini]

My first counsellor said that to me. My boy is 12 what will he think of me if I leave him and his mother or stay and watch me putting on a brave face. It is always children caught in the middle of adults playing silly buggers...

 

The worst thing we can do to our children is to teach them that it is okay to stay in a loveless marriage.

 

We teach them that, we teach them to expect no less for themselves.

 

The best we can do is to teach children that if a marriage is over, it is over, and if the parents need to live apart in order to work on themselves and their values, and priorities, that this does not affect our feelings or our being there for our kids.

 

Whatever happens as a result of this period of separation will go a long way in providing the proper education about relationships for our kids.

[cocorico]

My first counsellor said that to me. My boy is 12 what will he think of me if I leave him and his mother or stay and watch me putting on a brave face. It is always children caught in the middle of adults playing silly buggers...

 

 

Instead of speculating about what you imagine they would think, why not ask?

My H asked his kids (who were teens at the time) whether he should continue to stay with their mother, or leave - with them being free to go with him, to stay with her, or to split their time, should he leave - and they said he should leave, and they would go with him. It was what he had expected - he had been staying "for them", but it did help him to make his decision and act on it.

[SoleMate]

Vaginal dryness is 100% treatable. I hope you and your W worked together to seek a solution to this common and easily correctable issue. If not, now is the time. If you're serious about working on your marriage, re-establishing the possibility for physical intimacy is one of your most important tasks.

[Waverly]

I think about telling wife of affair but wonder if this is a way of forcing the issue. I've read Shermanators thread with interest and can relate to it very much. (But without the drinking issues, I'm British and by American standards were are all pretty much alchoholics) also a lady called Waverley who has confessed. (I wondered if her confession was due to the fact that by trying to stay with H she still hadn't resolved issues.)

 

I'm not sure I follow what you're saying about my confession being due to unresolved issues -- ? Do you mean as regards my feelings for my xAP?

 

I'm obviously not far in here, but I will say this: my confession blew everything up. It did exactly what I was afraid of all along; it completely annihilated my previous marriage. But, what I am realizing now -- and again, I say this being still in the initial shockwaves of it all, so take it for what you will -- is that that is EXACTLY what needed to happen all along. We were at an impasse; we weren't communicating at all (long before the A). This has forced the issue in a really real and hard and necessary way.

 

I still don't know how this will all play out for me, but I'm cautiously optimistic.

[Furious]

I finally ended the relationship with my OW. My earlier thread gives the details, but after much prevaricating I finally finished it. She is very upset but I couldn't use her to end my marriage. I decided to seek counselling and work on my marriage.

I decided to look at my marriage and see if I could make it work without the constant reminder of the A or OW. Then if my marriage works or fails it will be for the 'right' reasons. I think I'm doing the right thing after behaving badly but it is so hard and painful.

It's only been a day of NC and I'm thinking of the OW and what I am missing, the life we could have had together, the great sex – all the fantasy’s and clichés and am feeling jealous already.

After an intense two year affair I'm not even sure I still even love my wife. But does the fear of breaking up your family, moving out of the family home you've built for years, fear of future loneliness, financial instability, justify staying in a comfortable but loveless marriage? (My wife loves me, but we haven't had sex in 3 years + and now I'm not sure I still would) Can a marriage be rebuilt after all this?

I think and am trying to do the right thing, but is it?

 

Your indecisiveness is glaring, you're bouncing back and forth with an internal argument. it seems to me your greatest challenge is your own passive aggressive coping skills. In a nut shell, your dilemma is not about doing the right thing in general but doing the right thing that most benefits you.

 

It's apparent that you have the ability to manipulate others, whether it's your wife or the OW. For a considerable time you compromised both your marriage and affair , taking from both, to fill your entitlement, but how long can that last without eventually choosing one or the other. In a perfect world you'd not have to choose.

 

Your subconscious knows that no matter what you choose, either way, comes with risk consequence. it's apparent you are risk averse, but on the other hand cover you bets by denying others the same choices you are grappling with.

[jackslife]

Your indecisiveness is glaring, you're bouncing back and forth with an internal argument. it seems to me your greatest challenge is your own passive aggressive coping skills. In a nut shell, your dilemma is not about doing the right thing in general but doing the right thing that most benefits you.

 

It's apparent that you have the ability to manipulate others, whether it's your wife or the OW. For a considerable time you compromised both your marriage and affair , taking from both, to fill your entitlement, but how long can that last without eventually choosing one or the other. In a perfect world you'd not have to choose.

 

Your subconscious knows that no matter what you choose, either way, comes with risk consequence. it's apparent you are risk averse, but on the other hand cover you bets by denying others the same choices you are grappling with.

 

So much of what you are saying is true it is painful - like someone holding up a mirror to your brain...

[daretotrustlove]

Jack,

This is coming from a person who stayed for 10 years because of my kids. When they were 17 & 14, I finally sat down with them and we had a talk, age appropriate. I was actually shocked at what my kids had absorbed from my m. When explaining to them, that I wasn't happy and they stopped me and said.

 

(Mom, we can see what its been like, your not happy, dad's not happy, and we are not happy watching you both. This is hard on all of us. We know its hard...but this is not a good life for any of us.) In shock....this is what came from my kids. Now, a few years later, my exh is a better husband to his w, a better father to his kids, and we are better friends because we looked at the whole picture. I won't have my kids living a unhealthy life, because "its the right thing to do".....For who.!!!!!!!!!!!!!! JMO.

 

As for the OW, honest, honesty, honesty, is all I can say. If your honest with her, and you both love each other, then she will hopefully support you and the time it takes to make these decisions. Because a R, starts from a affair, do not mean it won't make it, a relationship is what you make it, as a couple. Its not that different from a M, either way it takes work, communication, desire, honesty and lots of compromise and love, just a few to list.

 

As for the W and you and your marriage, honesty, honesty,honesty, it takes work, communication, desire, and alot of compromise and love, just a few to list. Doing the right thing is the hardest thing to do. But you need some time and space to figure out "what" the right thing to do is. It could be staying married, working on your marriage. It could be spending some time by yourself to see what you are all about. It could be letting go of a R, that has already changed (M) and going after a relationship with the OW.

 

This is your life.....make the best of it, and be supportive to the others in your life, but don't live your life for others.

 

Again, take what you need if anything, and get rid of the rest of this post.

Edited June 23, 2014 by daretotrustlove

[jackslife]

I'm not sure I follow what you're saying about my confession being due to unresolved issues -- ? Do you mean as regards my feelings for my xAP?

 

I'm obviously not far in here, but I will say this: my confession blew everything up. It did exactly what I was afraid of all along; it completely annihilated my previous marriage. But, what I am realizing now -- and again, I say this being still in the initial shockwaves of it all, so take it for what you will -- is that that is EXACTLY what needed to happen all along. We were at an impasse; we weren't communicating at all (long before the A). This has forced the issue in a really real and hard and necessary way.

 

I still don't know how this will all play out for me, but I'm cautiously optimistic.

 

I think that was the point I was (poorly) putting. Despite finishing with AP and trying to R with H, were those efforts wasted because the marriages problems were still unresolved. However, the confession forced the issue, rather than letting things rumble on.

 

Waverly, it's not my intention to pull you into this thread. But your posts were really interesting to read, and I hope you are doing okay.

[jackslife]

Jack,

This is coming from a person who stayed for 10 years because of my kids. When they were 17 & 14, I finally sat down with them and we had a talk, age appropriate. I was actually shocked at what my kids had absorbed from my m. When explaining to them, that I wasn't happy and they stopped me and said.

 

(Mom, we can see what its been like, your not happy, dad's not happy, and we are not happy watching you both. This is hard on all of us. We know its hard...but this is not a good life for any of us.) In shock....this is what came from my kids. Now, a few years later, my exh is a better husband to his w, a better father to his kids, and we are better friends because we looked at the whole picture. I won't have my kids living a unhealthy life, because "its the right thing to do".....For who.!!!!!!!!!!!!!! JMO.

 

As for the OW, honest, honesty, honesty, is all I can say. If your honest with her, and you both love each other, then she will hopefully support you and the time it takes to make these decisions. Because a R, starts from a affair, do not mean it won't make it, a relationship is what you make it, as a couple. Its not that different from a M, either way it takes work, communication, desire, honesty and lots of compromise and love, just a few to list.

 

As for the W and you and your marriage, honesty, honesty,honesty, it takes work, communication, desire, and alot of compromise and love, just a few to list. Doing the right thing is the hardest thing to do. But you need some time and space to figure out "what" the right thing to do is. It could be staying married, working on your marriage. It could be spending some time by yourself to see what you are all about. It could be letting go of a R, that has already changed (M) and going after a relationship with the OW.

 

This is your life.....make the best of it, and be supportive to the others in your life, but don't live your life for others.

 

Again, take what you need if anything, and get rid of the rest of this post.

 

This makes very interesting reading. Thank you for the advice.

[jackslife]

jackslife - just wanted to apologise for being so acerbic earlier. It's not as if I can't see your POV - I want more than I have with H at times, I sometimes wonder if it's part and parcel of a long long relationship. But what you wrote about your wife really hit a nerve. I am 49, I have been through the menopause, I have experienced the physical changes it causes, H had an affair at the very worst time for me. It huri so so much - I can't tell you. I am beginning to recover myself - build my self-esteem, begin to look outwards again. We spent two years recovering our marriage and it seems to work - apart from the fact that I personally was still in bits. So the second recovery is starting (mine) and whether there is still a marriage at the end of it no-one can say.

 

Look at it this way. A woman spends her best years with a man. They support each other through thick and thin, they have a child, they share the ups and downs. Then when life plays it's usual trick on the woman and she is past her prime, the man decides he no longer wants her. Of course it isn't that simplistic but sometimes it sure as hell seems that way. Can you see it from your W's POV.

 

The lack of sex can and should be addressed. it's something you should both have tackled before - the menopause can makes a woman feel totally asexual, not because she wants to be but because she feels as if she is no longer a woman, no longer desirable. If her partner also shows no interest, in her, or in helping her address the problems, she just assumes that he also thinks she is no longer a woman, no longer desirable. You may well be past the point of fixing this but maybe there is a chance if you want it enough. Have you tried MC?

 

No apology required, I can see how it looked from your POV and I didn't make myself clear. I have thought about MC and think we will have to, the only reason I haven't is that all the fault in this is mine. Also I suppose the A coming to light is a concern - how can you attempt to get closer to your spouse if you are still lying? A question you'd probably ask of me

[jackslife]

OW has just dropped me a text to see if I was okay. I said I was okay, but missing not talking to her. She responded saying she was okay and feeling more like her old self, but that leaving me to sort myself out was important as we had to do something to stop the impasse.

Now feeling even more mixed up (if that's possible! )

Maybe it's an ego thing, that she's moving on slowlly and being without me isn't the end of the world.

[Appreciate]

As long as you keep replying to her texts, it will continue to be hard.

[daretotrustlove]

OW has just dropped me a text to see if I was okay. I said I was okay, but missing not talking to her. She responded saying she was okay and feeling more like her old self, but that leaving me to sort myself out was important as we had to do something to stop the impasse.

Now feeling even more mixed up (if that's possible! )

Maybe it's an ego thing, that she's moving on slowlly and being without me isn't the end of the world.

 

What I'm getting here is that your not happy she is "slowly" moving on.?. I don't know anything about her or your R, but I can only speak for my self at almost 7 mnths NC from the end of a 5 yrs R with xmm. But from what you posted, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you ended the A. I can't describe the pain, the loss, the emotions of losing someone that I love with everything that I'am. I listen to all the promises, all the I love you's, all the future talk. I believed in him, so I believed what he told me. And this is the second time he has done this. But this time he confessed to his W, a d-day.

 

I won't go in to everything but even this far out, I have not moved on, I have not let go, I'm not waiting, I'm still very lost. One thing I know for sure is that the m that you "had" is gone. It will never be the same, you will never be the same, w will never be the same. You will need to create a new marriage. A affair takes somewhere between 2 to 5 years to heal from, if you and your w can heal. I don't mean to push or advise going either way. You must do what is going to work for you. What I'm asking is that you not forget who you brought along on this journey. There are no winners here. Either way you go, you will need to start over. You can start over with your w, and have a idea of where its going to go after the dust settles. Or you can start a life with OW.

 

Ok, maybe I'm bias for the OW if she loves you like I loved xmm. I know that everything we have been through, he never gave us a chance, because of fear or comfort or "doing the right thing. Either way we all start over again, with issues that we didn't have before. Trust is a big thing to give away, sometimes you can never get it back.

 

How does your OW feel about all of this.?????????

[jackslife]

Daretotrustlove:

I didn't finish, finish it tbh. When we are together it is wonderful, but when we are apart we really miss each other and she is alone with a huge void in her life and I'm with my wife. I think I'd reached the point where the affair seemed unfair to her (not to mention wife). The only way to sustain it (her) was to keep hinting at break ups with wife etc etc. without ever making good on those promises (having cake and eating it). She was getting tired of being the OW and wants me to make a decision. She wants and loves me, but doesn't want to be OW forever. With the constant ups and downs of all that and the realisation of how long the affair was going on for, I decided I had to have some time out to make the call.

Most of the advice on here and with Counsellors is about leaving OW to try and repair marriage. Which is where I thought my head was at. But it's not that simple. I decided I couldn't endlessly have an affair and must address why I had it and if I was going to stay with my wife or leave her (for OW or for other reasons).

Also this isn't just 2 people just getting together. Psychologically the OW/OM is getting exactly what they want at virtually no cost to them if the AP leaves (the OW pays the price when the man stays married). But for the WS that decision costs everything!, marriage, heartache, a huge financial hit, comfort, upsetting children. I don't want to sound mercenary but it is a huge call to make when the all the evidence leads to the romance failing in the future. Maybe that's why I wanted to be sure I was/am unhappy in marriage and am leaving for that reason - not just for the heady thrill of a OW.

Sorry, didn't mean to ramble on. These threads are like free therapy.

[cocorico]

Also this isn't just 2 people just getting together. Psychologically the OW/OM is getting exactly what they want at virtually no cost to them if the AP leaves (the OW pays the price when the man stays married). But for the WS that decision costs everything!, marriage, heartache, a huge financial hit, comfort, upsetting children.

 

Jackslife clearly you know your situation best, but I would caution against such a naive cost-benefit analysis. Having been through this myself (as the OW whose MM left "for her") I can assure you that in our case - as I'm sure in most - the realty was far more complex. In our case, the costs to him were: a toxic M, some residual guilt over having "cheated", and the financial cost of his lawyer's fees for the D itself. (The financial costs were offset by the financial gains of having control over his household expenditure.) he gains were many - a satisfying R, his kids full time without the constant battle of a partner with diametrically opposed views on parenting, not having to walk on eggshells around his own home, passion, joy, happier and more settled kids, hope for the future. The costs to me: moving out of m own home, leaving friends, family, much loved pets, a great job, my home country with brilliant weather and great environment, my freedom and space and complete independence, etc. of course I considered the gains t outweigh the costs, but please don't make the mistake of assuming there would be no costs for your OW. I'm sure she could list them for you if you asked - you would not be the only one making sacrifices.

 

I don't want to sound mercenary but it is a huge call to make when the all the evidence leads to the romance failing in the future. Maybe that's why I wanted to be sure I was/am unhappy in marriage and am leaving for that reason - not just for the heady thrill of a OW.

 

The "evidence" which suggests "romance failing in the future" rests exactly on that - if you leave your M for reasons outside of itself, here is a far greater chance of later regret than if you are done with the M, and leave because you would be happier without the M than with it. If you are simply "trading up" there is a very real risk that in the future, if things with your OW become less "thrilling", you may become dissatisfied and seek to trade up again... Or regret having done so in the first place.

 

This is not about one woman vs another. This is about two versions of yourself, and which one feels more authentic and more sustainable. Choose wisely.

[veryhappy]

You are not leaving any wife. Three years sexless and still there when you have the easy way out? You are wasting time thinking you'd really leave. Why don't you confess? Best libido cure out there! Hysterical bonding and all.

 

 

Please tell your OW that another discarded MOW has a message for her: run for your dear life and don't look back.

 

 

Your A is not over. You don't want to let go because you don't know how to fix your M. Confess. Easiest way to achieve that.

[Furious]

it's obvious that you're being given perspective by both sides of the coin. OW who state the pro's of leaving your wife and some who think you should give your marriage a second chance.

 

Personally, I'm neutral about what decision you make. I'm not cheer leading either choice. The only thing I cheerlead is integrity. Either way you can achieve integrity. If you handle yourself in such a way, it leads the road toward an opportunity to move forward with good intentions.

 

Just because you may be out of love with someone and in love with someone else does not make respect void.

 

I think, perhaps you need to accept that you cannot get it all, that you can be generous and accept that you cannot walk away with as much as you would like.

 

You see yourself as having to give up more than the OW has to give up. ironically, that is your weakness of character.

[daretotrustlove]

Jake, I'm not sure if I understand your comment. Your saying that the OW/OM doesn't lose anything...???. if the mm/mw stays married to the w/h. I beg to differ. If I could sit down and explain to you what this had done to me. It would blow your mind. I know that posting on here or anywhere really doesn't reach the depths of what is really there. All though I'm trying to reach deep down inside to help with giving you my opinion, because I'm living it now. Or I should say not living at all.

 

I want you to know that OW/OM can feel just as much pain as a BS. My life as I knew it, ended that day. I know that time heals things, but this my friend will never heal. I no longer trust, even myself. I don't feel worth the air I breath. I don't care or enjoy anything any more. I'm not one to be alone, but I can say that I would not make it through being hurt again. My opinion is that I wasn't "worth" it for him. I gave all the love I had, that one human could give to another, it wasn't enough. The loss I feel is crippling. I will never be the same person I was then, I don't even care about me anymore.

 

Everyone says, you will find another to love, no...I did that already, I gave him my all, heart and soul. Not enough, although that is what he wanted from a woman. For a married person to leave that life to start another with the OP is also hard. You don't think I wouldn't of been called names, treated horribly, lost just as much. Yes, but the difference is, that loving that man meant more to me, than anything anyone could of said or done to me.

 

I can only say this goes so deep, and deeper than any post on a forum can explain. My belief is that, I can't take a house, car, cash, furniture or what someone else says about me after I die. The only thing we can ever take is the love that we share with others. Those material things don't make my heart jump when I hear his voice, or see his smile, or hold his hand, or gently kiss his lips. Again, I know that men and women think differently, but because we don't think the same doesn't mean it doesn't hurt, or doesn't affect us deeply. Yes, I made the mistake of giving my all, I will never do it again.

 

I never lied to my xmm, about anything, good or bad, happy or sad, I was honest. I never said anything to get him to stay with me, that I wasn't prepared to follow through on. Just the way I am. So the cost for the other person when the MP decides its easier to stay married, is life altering, that has to mean something. At least I would hope it does. But then I'm not worth much.

 

Take to heart what touches you. Remember that your mind has a mind of its own, and your heart has a mind of its own. I will always live with regrets for the rest of my life. I will love him deeply forever, beyond my last breath, and will forever in my heart be his, only to be alone forever. Yes, its my choice, because of what I have been through. If your afraid to leave and start over, which is stretching things abit, we never start over fully, we start down another path of life. If your afraid to fail with another love, then don't. Make it and keep it the way you want.

Edited June 26, 2014 by daretotrustlove

[heartinlove]

I haven't been on here on this site in a while because its the same story over and over again. As I read this thread, its just another mm in a loveless marriage with a woman you might love justifying over and over and over again his choice to do NOTHING. You're a coward. Its all for your own comfort, and you will continue to read everyones advice and post after post after post, thank them for it, and it will be clear you will do NOTHING.

 

I agree you will most likely be back in the affair until AP truly had enough or you will get a new AP and you will be too cowardly to ever be real with your wife all in the name of doing it for the children. Such BS. You don't care about either woman really.

 

It would be such a nice change to see a MM actually choose anything.

[daretotrustlove]

Jack, sorry, I missed spelled your name.

 

Heartinlove, I agree with you to a point. Yes, the children are usually used as a excuse. And then there are the times where the mm, now claims to love the w after years of leading on the OW. Thats not to say that they don't love the BS, but not in the same or romantic way. Some where back in this thread, I stated to be responsible for the other people that you bring along on this journey. I have also seen it stated that, peps say, to the AP, what did you expect, you get what you deserve. As much as I hate to even put that in print, I've seen it.

 

This is not to say that women do it too. My xmm acually went as far as to go home to tell the w, that he was leaving. I sat here waiting for him to come back. Cleaned out my dresser, closet, applied for a job closer to his work. Although I have thought that he knew all along, he wasn't going to go through with it. One of the things he said that was hard about walking away from that life, was everything he had built in that life. Then after d-day, they sold everything and left the area. He gave it all up and stayed with his w.

He called me on the phone, couldn't even do it face to face. He said he was working on his m, because he didn't know what else to do. And of course, he minimized so much what we had. Ya, I have issues.

 

Sorry Jack for the T/J.

 

Yes, this is the so hard on everyone involved. I believe that xmm will end up being nothing more than a shell of a man, the rest of his life. But he decided to take me with him. Sad part about all of this is, I still love him deeply.I will never go back to being the OW, and will most likely spend the rest of my life alone.

[daretotrustlove]

BluesBlue, I'm sorry your hurting too. I started to make a point with all of this and got carried away as the emotions rolled out of me. To me, it seemed as I was as easy to through away as taking out the trash.

 

Jack, I didn't mean to go on a rant. I was trying to be fair between W and OW and I got lost. I wanted to mention that at the 5 yr mark., we still had the excitment, passion and love between us. After 5 years we also had issues at work, life, kids, etc..... I never had a fantasy land R with him. It was a dream because that is what we made it, even with everday life issues too.

Edited June 27, 2014 by daretotrustlove

[lollipopspot]

For their emotional development, kids don't need to see a "passionate marriage" between their parents. That's something adults say to justify their divorce. If you are "content" at home as you say, and you are able to control yourself so there isn't excessive fighting, then a stable, peaceful home is the best gift for kids. They care about your love for them, and your time with them, more than they are aware of your love for your partner.

 

I think staying for kids is a good thing, when both people can pull it together and knock off their pettiness and fighting and functional as a family unit, with or without romantic passion.

[Appreciate]

Every OW wants to believe that MM has made a choice to stay for stability and security, and not passionate romantic love. Which, as we know, fades over time.

 

You don't really know the relationship between he and his wife. He fell in love with his wife at one point, remember? Life at home can't be like the fantasy of an affair, it's just not possible. What he should have done was to keep the fires burning at home, and never had gotten involved in the first place with an OW.

 

Maybe you don't know him like you think you know him. You're calling him a coward, but perhaps it would have been more cowardly of him to leave and dump his responsibilities on his wife. Maybe they will heal and have a great life together.. maybe he will feel horrible for the way he treated her AND you.