Infant screams until he gets what he wants or what?

[KathyM]

Babies need to learn that nighttime is for sleeping. If you keep picking him up every time he cries during the night, he will not learn to self soothe. He will not learn to be able to fall asleep on his own. That pattern can persist well into later childhood. After the age when he needs nighttime feedings, help him to learn to fall asleep on his own in his own bed. After you've done the bedtime routine, then put him to bed.

[alwayshere]

KathyM is spot on. So is anywhichway.

 

The best thing a friend of mine ever did for me was buy me a couple of books on family centered parenting and routines. Routines create security. I would print out their posts and tape them up somewhere

 

No, crying it out that long is NOT good. HOWEVER, neither is catering to every whim and letting any child run the household, even as a baby.

 

I implemented the plans in those books, and both my kids slept through the night before 3 months of age. Routine and transition works. And yes, self-soothing is important.

[veggirl]

That poor baby! This thread made me really sad

 

6 mos is way too young to be letting him scream and cry for hours in his crib

 

And to suggest it is some sort of manipulation. Geesh.

[Tayla]

Babies need to learn that nighttime is for sleeping. If you keep picking him up every time he cries during the night, he will not learn to self soothe. He will not learn to be able to fall asleep on his own. That pattern can persist well into later childhood. After the age when he needs nighttime feedings, help him to learn to fall asleep on his own in his own bed. After you've done the bedtime routine, then put him to bed.

 

I respectfully disagree with this concept. Wailing it out and being dismissive of a childs needs is counter productive. Yes a few moments of light whimpers are one thing...what is being suggested here though is to be the gatekeeper of how that child will submit to sensory deprivation.

 

Often times the compensating parent is actually more in tune with a childs ways then one who ignores and mandates silence or complete submission. No child ever grows when left in the dark.

 

Here is what I previously said and agreed with. Routine, bonding, and sensory provisions. Dim lights, sounds -smoothing, and rocking....

[2sunny]

My kids slept through the night from the first night they were home.

 

I interacted with them when they were awake.

 

I put them in their bed when it was sleeping time. The baby needs to get the idea that the bed is for when they are sleepy.

 

Try not to put your baby in his bed for other reasons except when he is tired and shows definite signs of needing to sleep.

[regine_phalange]

Poor one, maybe he is scared of being alone. As you said, your mere presence calms him down. I had read somewhere, that babies that sleep alone in another room can get very stressed. Have you tried moving the crib in your room for a night, and putting it right next to you? I'm a believer that attention, hugs and affection don't spoil babies, kids, or adults.

[KathyM]

I respectfully disagree with this concept. Wailing it out and being dismissive of a childs needs is counter productive. Yes a few moments of light whimpers are one thing...what is being suggested here though is to be the gatekeeper of how that child will submit to sensory deprivation.

 

Often times the compensating parent is actually more in tune with a childs ways then one who ignores and mandates silence or complete submission. No child ever grows when left in the dark.

 

Here is what I previously said and agreed with. Routine, bonding, and sensory provisions. Dim lights, sounds -smoothing, and rocking....

Baby sleep basics: Birth to 3 months | BabyCenter

 

 

Helping your baby to develop good sleep habits and helping him learn to self soothe and fall asleep on his own is a good thing. It prevents a child from developing a dependence on the parent for falling asleep, and helps him to go back to sleep on his own when he wakes up during the night. When your baby no longer needs nighttime feedings and basic trust has been established by attending to his needs promptly during the early months, he needs to be weened away from such dependence eventually, and be able to learn to fall asleep on his own. It's important that babies start to learn that nighttime is for sleeping. It's not for playing or a lot of interaction with parents. By the time the baby is six months old, he is ready to be night weened. Experts say that parents should put the baby down when he is drowsy but still awake so that he does not develop a dependence on the parent for sleeping. Allowing the baby to cry for five minutes when he wakes up at night before going to him by the time he is 6 months old and not needing night feedings will not harm him. It is not dismissive of him. It is allowing him to learn to go back to sleep on his own. That is an important thing to learn for children. The time for stimulating a child is during the day. A child needs to learn that nighttime is quiet time, not play time, not time for a lot of interaction.

[KathyM]

Poor one, maybe he is scared of being alone. As you said, your mere presence calms him down. I had read somewhere, that babies that sleep alone in another room can get very stressed. Have you tried moving the crib in your room for a night, and putting it right next to you? I'm a believer that attention, hugs and affection don't spoil babies, kids, or adults.

I would not suggest having the baby sleep in your room. It develops a dependence. He needs to learn that he can fall asleep in his room. Good sleeping habits should be encouraged from the start.

[Janesays]

There is a big difference between letting a baby fuss it out for 5 or 10 minutes...and letting a child scream for hours at a time. Common sense would dictate that if a child is still screaming after an hour, he's not getting any closer to self soothing and letting him scream for another hour will NOT help.

 

My infant has been sleeping through the night since she was 6 weeks old. But I also actively TEACH her how to calm herself. I never just put her in a room and let her shriek while I stare passively at her. That's not parenting. That's crazy town.

[2sunny]

I can see that the OP is fairly young.

 

OP - have you read any books on how to care for a baby?

 

One of my favorites is Your Baby and Child by Penelope Leach

[KathyM]

There is a big difference between letting a baby fuss it out for 5 or 10 minutes...and letting a child scream for hours at a time. Common sense would dictate that if a child is still screaming after an hour, he's not getting any closer to self soothing and letting him scream for another hour will NOT help.

 

My infant has been sleeping through the night since she was 6 weeks old. But I also actively TEACH her how to calm herself. I never just put her in a room and let her shriek while I stare passively at her. That's not parenting. That's crazy town.

No one (at least not me) is advocating letting a child scream for hours at a time. I am advocating sleep training, as was outlined in the article I posted, which includes allowing the child to cry for five minutes before going to him, and gradually increasing the time for response to a longer interval if necessary. I'm advocating using a bedtime routine to calm your child down and get him ready for sleep, so that he is drowsy by the time you put him down, but still awake. Then singing a lullaby to him after putting him down, and then leaving the room. That is what experts are recommending. Allowing your child to fall asleep on his own and not allowing him to develop a dependence on you being there in order to fall asleep. I learned this the hard way with my first child. I was the type of parent who would immediately go to pick up my child as soon as he cried at night and would stay in his room as long as it took for him to fall asleep. At six months old, he was still waking every 2 hours or less, and no one was getting much sleep. Then a good friend of ours told us that, at six months, he doesn't need that kind of attention at night, and he has developed expectations for that excessive attention at night. He suggested the sleep training method I described earlier, which is what he used for his two kids. I started using that method, and it worked well. Within a week, my son was sleeping through the night. I used that method on my other sons when they were babies and old enough to begin sleep training. It worked well for them too. So I'm a fan, and I never had problems after that related to their sleeping. They learned that they were expected to sleep in their room, and that nighttime is for sleeping. My niece, OTOH, who had a baby a few years ago, had her baby sleep in the mother's room from the start, and then tried to transfer her to her own room after six months, and goes to attend to her immediately upon her waking at night. The baby has become overly fussy, overly dependent, and with an abnormal separation anxiety that exists in both daytime and nighttime hours. She is inconsolable if her mother is not present, making it impossible now to have anyone babysit her, or for her to be anywhere without her mother present. She thought she was being a good mother to her child by being so very attentive. What she did was teach her child that she cannot manage without her mother present at all times, and she never learned to self soothe. I'm trying to encourage her to foster a more healthy level of independence with her now 3 year old, which is age appropriate.

[lollipopspot]

My niece, OTOH, who had a baby a few years ago, had her baby sleep in the mother's room from the start, and then tried to transfer her to her own room after six months

 

The American Academy of Pediatrics recommends that babies sleep in the same room as their parents.

[Janesays]

No one (at least not me) is advocating letting a child scream for hours at a time. I am advocating sleep training, as was outlined in the article I posted, which includes allowing the child to cry for five minutes before going to him, and gradually increasing the time for response to a longer interval if necessary. I'm advocating using a bedtime routine to calm your child down and get him ready for sleep, so that he is drowsy by the time you put him down, but still awake. Then singing a lullaby to him after putting him down, and then leaving the room. That is what experts are recommending. Allowing your child to fall asleep on his own and not allowing him to develop a dependence on you being there in order to fall asleep. I learned this the hard way with my first child. I was the type of parent who would immediately go to pick up my child as soon as he cried at night and would stay in his room as long as it took for him to fall asleep. At six months old, he was still waking every 2 hours or less, and no one was getting much sleep. Then a good friend of ours told us that, at six months, he doesn't need that kind of attention at night, and he has developed expectations for that excessive attention at night. He suggested the sleep training method I described earlier, which is what he used for his two kids. I started using that method, and it worked well. Within a week, my son was sleeping through the night. I used that method on my other sons when they were babies and old enough to begin sleep training. It worked well for them too. So I'm a fan, and I never had problems after that related to their sleeping. They learned that they were expected to sleep in their room, and that nighttime is for sleeping. My niece, OTOH, who had a baby a few years ago, had her baby sleep in the mother's room from the start, and then tried to transfer her to her own room after six months, and goes to attend to her immediately upon her waking at night. The baby has become overly fussy, overly dependent, and with an abnormal separation anxiety that exists in both daytime and nighttime hours. She is inconsolable if her mother is not present, making it impossible now to have anyone babysit her, or for her to be anywhere without her mother present. She thought she was being a good mother to her child by being so very attentive. What she did was teach her child that she cannot manage without her mother present at all times, and she never learned to self soothe. I'm trying to encourage her to foster a more healthy level of independence with her now 3 year old, which is age appropriate.

 

I'm familiar with the Ferber method, which is what you're describing. Keep in mind that Dr. Ferber is just one "expert." You also have Dr. Karp, Dr. Sears and Dr. Weisen-however-you-spell-it to contend with. And all of their methods differ....

 

...however, NOT ONE of them advocates sitting in a room while your child screams for hours. And when I made note of that, I was referring to the OP, not you. He said that was what he was currently doing.

 

Personally, I prefer Dr. Karp over Dr. Ferber. As I said, my baby has been sleeping pretty well since week 6 utilizing his methods and she's never had to cry it out.

[2sunny]

I don't agree with Dr Sears - that it's healthy to encourage kids to sleep in a family bed.

 

His ideas sold lots of books - but couples I know that implemented his philosophy are divorced now.

 

Parents bed should be their own private, sacred space.

[Janesays]

I don't agree with Dr Sears - that it's healthy to encourage kids to sleep in a family bed.

 

His ideas sold lots of books - but couples I know that implemented his philosophy are divorced now.

 

Parents bed should be their own private, sacred space.

 

Yeah, he's my least favorite expert as well.

[KathyM]

The American Academy of Pediatrics recommends that babies sleep in the same room as their parents.

Apparently as a precautionary measure related to SIDS during early infancy, and in their own crib, but if the baby stops breathing suddenly during sleep, as what happens in SIDS, that is not going to wake parents up who are sleeping in the room. I don't see how that will prevent SIDS, or reduce the risk. Certainly, if the baby is sleeping in the parents' bed, the child is more likely to die from SIDS or suffocation. That is what I have read, and I did a research project on SIDS a few years back. And good luck with getting a child to sleep in his own room once he has developed a pattern of sleeping in a parent's room and having his parent in the room whenever he is sleeping. I've always used a baby monitor with my babies so that I could hear every sound in their room, so that if there is an issue, I would hear it. And what happens during naptime then, is the mother supposed to stay in the room the whole time during morning and afternoon naps to keep a watchful eye on her baby during every sleeping moment? That's just not doable or feasible, and fosters a dependence which is hard to break when the baby gets older.

[lollipopspot]

And good luck with getting a child to sleep in his own room once he has developed a pattern of sleeping in a parent's room and having his parent in the room whenever he is sleeping... And what happens during naptime then, is the mother supposed to stay in the room the whole time during morning and afternoon naps to keep a watchful eye on her baby during every sleeping moment? That's just not doable or feasible, and fosters a dependence which is hard to break when the baby gets older.

 

All questions, but it shows that "experts" disagree on many child raising issues. There is no one right way to do it. I think the American Academy of Pediatrics is a very respected institution, and they think babies should be in the same room. So people need to choose what makes sense with the particular temperament of their child.

 

The idea of the child being too dependent by being around the parent so often is not a given. Your relative might be doing other things that are making the child feel insecure, or the child's temperament may be insecure. In many other cultures and for most of human history the child was basically attached to the hip and and co-sleeping was the norm. I think the separate bedroom and separate beds idea is recent and Western in human history.

[KathyM]

All questions, but it shows that "experts" disagree on many child raising issues. There is no one right way to do it. I think the American Academy of Pediatrics is a very respected institution, and they think babies should be in the same room. So people need to choose what makes sense with the particular temperament of their child.

 

The idea of the child being too dependent by being around the parent so often is not a given. Your relative might be doing other things that are making the child feel insecure, or the child's temperament may be insecure. In many other cultures and for most of human history the child was basically attached to the hip and and co-sleeping was the norm. I think the separate bedroom and separate beds idea is recent and Western in human history.

Sleeping in the same bed with a baby is certainly not a good thing. That increases the risk of SIDS and suffocation, plus fosters dependency and inhibits marital bonding. I realize cultural attitudes are different between cultures, and in the U.S., greater independence is promoted.

[alwayshere]

Most "modern" parenting recommendations are not good for marriages and foster helicopter parenting, IMO.

 

I used the Babywise book, and both my kids do very well.

[lollipopspot]

Sleeping in the same bed with a baby is certainly not a good thing.

 

In much of the world and throughout most of human history, it has been an unquestioned practice. I don't think it's fair to say "it's not a good thing," it's just not what you choose to do or promote for a variety of reasons.

[pteromom]

Baby sleep basics: Birth to 3 months | BabyCenter

 

 

Helping your baby to develop good sleep habits and helping him learn to self soothe and fall asleep on his own is a good thing. It prevents a child from developing a dependence on the parent for falling asleep, and helps him to go back to sleep on his own when he wakes up during the night. When your baby no longer needs nighttime feedings and basic trust has been established by attending to his needs promptly during the early months, he needs to be weened away from such dependence eventually, and be able to learn to fall asleep on his own. It's important that babies start to learn that nighttime is for sleeping. It's not for playing or a lot of interaction with parents. By the time the baby is six months old, he is ready to be night weened. Experts say that parents should put the baby down when he is drowsy but still awake so that he does not develop a dependence on the parent for sleeping. Allowing the baby to cry for five minutes when he wakes up at night before going to him by the time he is 6 months old and not needing night feedings will not harm him. It is not dismissive of him. It is allowing him to learn to go back to sleep on his own. That is an important thing to learn for children. The time for stimulating a child is during the day. A child needs to learn that nighttime is quiet time, not play time, not time for a lot of interaction.

 

I disagree with this. I mean, I agree that nighttime isn't for playing, but I do not believe that a baby has to be left on their own all night by 6 months.

 

My child definitely has learned how to self-soothe. He transitioned from feeling safe in my arms to feeling safe out of them quite well.

 

I am firmly in the "you can't spoil a child with love" camp.

[pteromom]

My niece, OTOH, who had a baby a few years ago, had her baby sleep in the mother's room from the start, and then tried to transfer her to her own room after six months, and goes to attend to her immediately upon her waking at night. The baby has become overly fussy, overly dependent, and with an abnormal separation anxiety that exists in both daytime and nighttime hours. She is inconsolable if her mother is not present, making it impossible now to have anyone babysit her, or for her to be anywhere without her mother present. She thought she was being a good mother to her child by being so very attentive. What she did was teach her child that she cannot manage without her mother present at all times, and she never learned to self soothe. I'm trying to encourage her to foster a more healthy level of independence with her now 3 year old, which is age appropriate.

 

This is definitely NOT my experience, and I parented very similarly to your niece. Of course, what is done in the daytime has impact too, and I encouraged other people holding and comforting, spending time away from me, etc. I do not believe that your niece's experience is due to sleep training alone.

[KathyM]

In much of the world and throughout most of human history, it has been an unquestioned practice. I don't think it's fair to say "it's not a good thing," it's just not what you choose to do or promote for a variety of reasons.

Well, research shows that babies are more likely to die from SIDS or suffocation if they share a bed with their parents. Research also shows that sharing the marital bed with babies or children inhibits the sexual relationship between parents which is an important part of the marital relationship. So I think it's fair to say that having the baby sleep in your bed is not a good thing for him or for the marriage, and recent research would bear that out.

[pteromom]

And good luck with getting a child to sleep in his own room once he has developed a pattern of sleeping in a parent's room and having his parent in the room whenever he is sleeping.

 

Again, this wasn't an issue here. It was a very peaceful transition.

[lollipopspot]

Well, research shows that babies are more likely to die from SIDS or suffocation if they share a bed with their parents. Research also shows that sharing the marital bed with babies or children inhibits the sexual relationship between parents which is an important part of the marital relationship. So I think it's fair to say that having the baby sleep in your bed is not a good thing for him or for the marriage, and recent research would bear that out.

 

I'm not advocating cosleeping for anyone who doesn't feel it's right for them, but I'm not 100% sure that cosleeping is a danger

 

The argument that in America, co-sleeping was practiced in the majority of sleep-related infant deaths is deceiving. Consider the data from Milwaukee, Wisconsin where infant mortality truly is a public health epidemic. Around 97% of all sleep-related infant deaths had multiple risk factors other than co-sleeping, and on average there were four risk factors present. Evaluating total infant mortality in the region shows that around 0.5% of deaths have co-sleeping as the only risk factor.

American Anthropological Association: Moving Beyond a Biomedical View of Co-Sleeping

 

The rate of SIDS is lowest in cultures that traditionally share sleep, such as Asian. While there could be many other factors contributing to the lower incidence of SIDS in these cultures, all the population studies I've seen have come to the same conclusion: Safe co-sleeping lowers the SIDS risk.

Ask Dr. Sears: Co-Sleeping a SIDS Danger? | Parenting

 

What the effect is on anyone's marriage is up to them. I'm sure some people feel more bonded as a family, and the mom is less tired if she doesn't have to get up to nurse when the child is very young.