katielee Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 Because I FROZE! And he could have killed me! He weighed 100 lbs more than me. And he held me arms down for a while. I didn't know what he would do. I'm going to have to leave this thread now....
nofeelings22 Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 Because I FROZE! And he could have killed me! He weighed 100 lbs more than me. And he held me arms down for a while. I didn't know what he would do. I'm going to have to leave this thread now.... Katie, I think Drifter was just curious. He was thinking logically. He wasn't insinuating that you did anything wrong. What he wasn't grasping, I think, is exactly what you just taught him. That it's not a logical moment. It's a moment of emotion run wild. Hopefully, you don't feel you are being attacked. I'm sure people are just trying to learn. 1
Quiet Storm Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 Because I FROZE! And he could have killed me! He weighed 100 lbs more than me. And he held me arms down for a while. I didn't know what he would do. I'm going to have to leave this thread now.... I'm sorry. I know that freezing or detaching is a common response to rape or sexual abuse. People go into survival mode and often the instinct is to freeze or submit. Not screaming or not fighting back does not matter at all. The fear in you takes over and you do what instinctually will help you survive. Who knows, if you would have fought back he could have hurt you even more. I do understand this and hopefully others will, too, after your last post.
janedoe67 Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 The root of this really isn't even about rape. The root of this is the fear that if we give a married woman who was touched by someone other than her husband even the teeniest benefit of the doubt, we are not doing our part to stamp out adultery, or it some how minimizes our own stories, or somehow we risk letting some cheater get away with it. We don't want some WW slipping through the cracks, so if we allow that it "might" have been rape, some WW may not get what she deserves.
carhill Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 If one wished to know if their behavior was 'infidelity while drunk', simply ask one's partner/spouse or perform the behavior, presuming that there are other unfaithful behaviors besides intercourse, in front of one's spouse/partner and see if they approve. Pretty simple. Don't know where the thread got side-tracked into rape but that and infidelity are separate issues, and threads.
revelations Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 I think that the whole thing of being blacked out and giving consent is getting confused. Blacking out does not mean being a drunken mess on the floor peeing yourself. I have actually had conversations with good friends (That I knew for over 15yrs) only to find out later that they were in a black out. So If I have seen a woman have a shot and a beer I might be fooled into thinking that she is fully able to give consent. However she may have had 6 other shots that I did not see and is in a blackout. As a man at the same party with her, how am I suppose to know this? I have had women that were obviously drunk damn near rape me before. However once again, the common thing I see on here is that it is always the man's fault. I don't like hearing about women being raped and I feel bad for them. I don't give a damn how the law looks at it. Women if you are drinking and choose to bang guy (Other than your husband/boyfriend) then YOU are at fault for cheating. If you can remember that it is not okay to drink and drive, then you can remember not to cheat on your old man. This is not victim blaming because you are NOT a victim. Is what you are is a woman who got careless and drunk and you did not want to say "no", it is that simple. If your drink was spiked with a drug, then you are a victim. If the guy forced himself on you, then your a victim. If you said "no" and the guy continued, then your a victim. If you think that other men are responsible for figuring out if your too drunk to give consent, then you are a self-entitled princess that deserves what is coming to you. It is complete BS that women can give consent or even aggressively go after a guy one evening, then the next day decided it was a mistake and cry "rape" because she had a drink or two. You women will eventually run out of men, because none of us will want to be near you for fear of what you will blame us for. Rape use to mean that someone was forced to perform a sexual act that they did not want to at the time. Not change their mind a day or two later then it becomes rape. Now if you women still want to give consent one evening then change your mind the next day I say that men need to counter this. Men everywhere should claim emotional abuse and ear rape the next time you women get PMS and start complaining about everything that us men do. Women today seem to work extremely hard at being a victim. If women put half that effort into treating their men like humans the divorce rate would probably be cut in half. So now this leaves me to ask all of you women out their, HOW IN THE HECK ARE MEN SUPPOSE TO KNOW WHEN YOU ACTUALLY GIVE CONSENT??? How are we suppose to know when your too drunk to give consent? What are we suppose to do when you take off your top at a party and jump on us yelling to "bang you"?? I have already given up on reading your minds because they change too often. So how are we suppose to know when you give consent? Are men suppose to just pray that the next day you will still feel the same that you did the night before? Yes escorts look a lot better than women today and even without escorts dating my had still looks a lot better than women today.
Author atreides Posted June 10, 2014 Author Posted June 10, 2014 I had two too many drinks one night at a hotel. So? An acquaintance got into my room when he knocked on my door because I saw my friends standing behind him and I assumed they were all coming in and I'd be safe. They didn't. He did. I held my arms to my side and I said, "I don't want to do this, and we shouldnt' be doing this" - at least three times. I am sorry. You clearly were in control enough to say no multiple times for your situation though... again I am very sorry for what happened.
Author atreides Posted June 10, 2014 Author Posted June 10, 2014 I am talking more in principle vs the actual thread because i think we do not have all the info but as one poster pointed out pertaining to the original thread i wish we hadnt went to that house or that i had realized i was getting so drunk and stopped. ive always held my liquer well and behaved well. i never have thought alcohol is an excuse for bad behavior. i cheated on my husband and i want to die. a car crash would have been better. When i read that, rape never came to my mind though. That is why I did not post to that affect. The OP, felt she cheated, which to me means there is more info on why she would think that not yet revealed. She ended up in a apartment, which was different than the house which to me, beyond being carried out passed out, which is different than a black out, she went willingly perhaps, but we don't know for sure, it is suggested if we are to assume her friends were there and were good friends. She also asked if she should tell her H, again we have a default thought of guilt. I do believe regret after the fact happens a lot, i have seen it too many times. Many women especially hate it that i have seen when the guy goes and "asks for more" after the ONS. Clearly when drunk, the world and standards are different. I agree with Jane, alcohol GNO should be a no go.
janedoe67 Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 Did anyone actually SAY that it was fine to use regret the next day, or are people just wigging out over that for no apparent reason? I can't find any post where anyone actually said regret the morning after is rape. Because it isn't. I admit, I am not streetwise enough in the ways of reckless adolescent behavior to have known one could black out and still seem fine. I did not participate in that, nor did I have partier friends. The ONLY time I was around drunken partiers was during a very bad few months of my life. So until my more experienced blackout drinking poster friends informed me differently, I thought blacking out meant obviously incapacitated. I understand differently now. 1
nofeelings22 Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 I think that the whole thing of being blacked out and giving consent is getting confused. Blacking out does not mean being a drunken mess on the floor peeing yourself. I have actually had conversations with good friends (That I knew for over 15yrs) only to find out later that they were in a black out. So If I have seen a woman have a shot and a beer I might be fooled into thinking that she is fully able to give consent. However she may have had 6 other shots that I did not see and is in a blackout. As a man at the same party with her, how am I suppose to know this? I have had women that were obviously drunk damn near rape me before. However once again, the common thing I see on here is that it is always the man's fault. I don't like hearing about women being raped and I feel bad for them. I don't give a damn how the law looks at it. Women if you are drinking and choose to bang guy (Other than your husband/boyfriend) then YOU are at fault for cheating. If you can remember that it is not okay to drink and drive, then you can remember not to cheat on your old man. This is not victim blaming because you are NOT a victim. Is what you are is a woman who got careless and drunk and you did not want to say "no", it is that simple. If your drink was spiked with a drug, then you are a victim. If the guy forced himself on you, then your a victim. If you said "no" and the guy continued, then your a victim. If you think that other men are responsible for figuring out if your too drunk to give consent, then you are a self-entitled princess that deserves what is coming to you. It is complete BS that women can give consent or even aggressively go after a guy one evening, then the next day decided it was a mistake and cry "rape" because she had a drink or two. +1. This part of the post is dead on
Author atreides Posted June 10, 2014 Author Posted June 10, 2014 Did anyone actually SAY that it was fine to use regret the next day, or are people just wigging out over that for no apparent reason? I can't find any post where anyone actually said regret the morning after is rape. Because it isn't. I admit, I am not streetwise enough in the ways of reckless adolescent behavior to have known one could black out and still seem fine. I did not participate in that, nor did I have partier friends. The ONLY time I was around drunken partiers was during a very bad few months of my life. So until my more experienced blackout drinking poster friends informed me differently, I thought blacking out meant obviously incapacitated. I understand differently now. Passed out is out, lying on the floor, maybe a pool of vomit... nah... that's from my Marine corp days that happened a lot. Seriously, "passed out" is out cold, "black out" is functioning but it is a word to describe after the fact because there is memory loss as to what happened before even though you are functioning.
Author atreides Posted June 11, 2014 Author Posted June 11, 2014 Really? No comments? Interesting I commented 2 posts above??? and now in the original thread
Author atreides Posted June 11, 2014 Author Posted June 11, 2014 here is what i posted in the thread below: --------------- I already posted my opinions and feel for the OP, but i wanted to address some of what happened the way i see it via the posts. One thing i will say, just as with those that have opinion that "if you cannot say something nice, then say nothing at all" or that posts must be in agreement or to support vs criticize or judgmental vs non-judgmental that in the same breath we are also quick to lump BS's to WS's via opinions. I recall when @jane was tired of being thrown under the bus for not being able to have a valid opinion because she is a WS, for example. To me the topic got so heated that in principle I started a thread to go over in principle the argument at hand without personally involving the OP, i did not think it was fair. As for this thread: There was not enough information given originally at least to be honest about it. For me it is not enough to say, "i normally can hold my liquor but...." come on, an honest assessment??? Countless times one can be X one day and Y the other or how much alcohol can be consumed and not black out. The OP defined what she did as cheating originally but now is drastically a very different poster than she was with the original post in terms of context. Black out also at least to my understanding is functioning but not recording what is happening, so you wont remember the next day even though you could appear to be normal. When i read her last post, the most concerning thing i had was this: my friends have apologized so much for letting me get in that vehicle but they said up until that point i had not acted any different than usually and this guy who had given us a ride had been the perfect gentleman. they texted me 20 minutes later to ask if i had made it home safely and i replied with a yes but i was going to bed. i don't know what happened after that. This freaked me out, she replied that she was home, so I took that to mean she was already out possibly and the guy initiated the text?? How evil is that? the police are on it and as i don't remember anything they are going by me being drugged and dna. i do not much and i feel far to attacked here to share what i learn or do know. Sadly we wont know the whole story but i feel for her. my husband is behind me 100% and has been the wonderful man i love so much. i am seeing a therapist today and i know it will be a hard journey ahead. my husband told me that even without being drugged he would not have been angry at me. he told me this before we got my test results. Clearly the OP wants to keep the results to herself as the main point is whether she was drugged or not, her H is with her. I wish her all the best.
janedoe67 Posted June 11, 2014 Posted June 11, 2014 Oh my...for some weird reason I thought you were female. Sorry about tHat. For the record, I don't think all people should agree. But this lady was clearly traumatized and hating herself. It was just cruel to pile on....even AFTER she clearly stated she was drugged, people were asking drug names and saying her story was suspect and that the people supporting her said all men are guity???? Then the big thing becomes how dare she go to her friend's boyfriend's house???? And no, I do not lump all BS's together. Plenty of BH's here are capable of compassion, believe in redemption, and can see people as individuals....because they haven CHOSEN to be that kind of man.
Author atreides Posted June 11, 2014 Author Posted June 11, 2014 Oh my...for some weird reason I thought you were female. Sorry about tHat. No problem, curious though as to why?
nofeelings22 Posted June 11, 2014 Posted June 11, 2014 Anyone want to put a link up?? I thought the thread was locked? I'd like to read what happened. I stand by my earlier posts. Until FACTS are revealed, which it sounds like they have been, you can't assume anything. If I were that husband, I'd be locating Mr Date Rape and well, let's nit expand on what I'd do. It would probably involve a trip to the ER though.
janedoe67 Posted June 11, 2014 Posted June 11, 2014 No problem, curious though as to why? The only thing I can come up with is your avatar has a pretty eye? I have no idea. My brain is exhausted.
Author atreides Posted June 11, 2014 Author Posted June 11, 2014 The only thing I can come up with is your avatar has a pretty eye? I have no idea. My brain is exhausted. ha, lol the avatar is from one of my fav sci-fi books, Frank Hurbert's Dune. as is the name i use, Atreides.
Author atreides Posted June 11, 2014 Author Posted June 11, 2014 Anyone want to put a link up?? I thought the thread was locked? I'd like to read what happened. I stand by my earlier posts. Until FACTS are revealed, which it sounds like they have been, you can't assume anything. If I were that husband, I'd be locating Mr Date Rape and well, let's nit expand on what I'd do. It would probably involve a trip to the ER though. After re-reading her response, she did not directly say she was drugged but implied it. I am stuck at the text to her friends saying she was home and going to bed. The guy must have done that, as how are you home going to bed and then wake up in an apartment? I think that is flat out evil for the dude to have done. link http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/480377-i-cheated-my-husband-feel-sick-inside-9.html
janedoe67 Posted June 11, 2014 Posted June 11, 2014 She stated outright that she was drugged and raped by a married man (possibly, if it was the man she thinks it was). She also said her husband was supportive before they got the results. The logical conclusion based on the post in context is that they DID, in fact, get test results and that she WAS, in fact drugged. It's clear she was drugged and raped. She went to the hospital. Bottom line, either there are people who are terrified of the words "I was wrong," or there are people who have a terrifyingly unempathetic view of rape victims. I want my rose colored glasses back..... 1
Author atreides Posted June 11, 2014 Author Posted June 11, 2014 (edited) @Jane excusememister got me thinking, when they said, either it is a rape and justice needs to be done or we basically are getting played here for a cheat to paraphrase. they showed what i was talking about in how the context is drastically different from the posts. just an honest question here, to look at objectively. She did say in a text to her friend that she was home and going to bed. I assume she did not do the text as how is someone home with their husband and going to bed but yet wake up in an apartment? Either she cannot remember, or what i think, that the guy did it or she is lying about being raped to cover her guilt? I just cannot get past the "being home" part as in when you are home, you are home right? In the end she did not directly say she was drugged, it was implied but she clearly stated that because she was attacked, she is not going to reveal the results of the test. So we actually don't know but i am going to assume still the guy initiated the text even though she said she did that she was already home. It is also suspicious to me now that i think about not clearly saying she was drugged when her post was all about defending her actions of going to this house and etc. etc. If she did cheat and has too much guilt over it, the withholding of the results makes sense as to avoid further attacks rather than support. Edited June 11, 2014 by atreides
janedoe67 Posted June 11, 2014 Posted June 11, 2014 If I am ever raped again, I know where NOT to go for support.....
Author atreides Posted June 11, 2014 Author Posted June 11, 2014 If I am ever raped again, I know where NOT to go for support..... Come on... can we take the posts for what was said. We have shared posts about not "jumping the gun" or "blanketing" Was she home or not? She said clearly she texted her friends that she was home, I think the guy did it but i am only assuming here. She also changed the dynamic to not clearly give us the info in her last post You were raped? I am so sorry.
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