mousemart Posted June 7, 2014 Posted June 7, 2014 It's really strange going on-line with a problem like this, part of me thinks nothing good will come out of asking a question in a place full of strangers but perhaps something will come out of it and I can integrate it with my own thoughts. So I am 33 years old and my long term partner is 30 years, we have been together for nearly 11 years with a few bouts of rocky patches. We have lived together for a small amount of that time, but we - or should I say 'I' have always preferred my personal space so I have always shied away from the living together - making a go of it phase. I have put barriers up about it, made excuses and generally been a child as far as those things go... So the general problem is as old as the hills - commitment... For a long time my girlfriend has wanted me to commit to her, at every turn I have made excuses said its not right or even avoided the conversation altogether. I'm not going to discuss her problems as I feel that just wouldn't be right but I've come to a stage where at least I can begin to understand why I am the way I am and hopefully put things right in my own head. We split up around three months ago, we have been talking and such in that time, at first I was like "meh" what will happen will happen and the likely story is that we will hook up again sooner or later. Very recently she has met a new man. I suppose when I realised that the dynamic of the relationship has changed I thought that I either get over it and start again or do something about it. At first there was anger, super hard to keep a lid on but the more I thought about the whole thing the more I realised that I was such a stupid bastard to put that girl though what I did to her. I mean the poor girl isn't asking for much, just a man to be with her to share everything in life - ups and downs ect. To be honest I have always thought that she was made with 'tougher stuff' and could cope with everything thrown at her in her stride but I suppose even the toughest people can be ground down. I don't know what will happen, but the more I think about it the more I realise how lucky I was. I mean the girl put up with all the crap from me for 11 years. She is not the type who is concerned with money or material things - just the good things in life (family ect) I am starting to realise now that I probably wont find another woman as compatible and caring as her and I should have held on tightly and not taken that love for granted... So another age old dilemma... If you love someone do you let them go or do you fight tooth and nail to get them back... I chatted with her today, told her how I felt and that she deserves to be happy. I said that if things do not turn out OK with this new man Then I will be there for her and will give her all the things he wants - all the things that I should have given a long time ago. I don't really know how that came across, maybe good came of it or maybe it sounded desperate... All I know for sure now is that even with all the fears and emotions churning around my head is that this woman, this gem of a woman deserves to be happy... So finally the question... Let the woman get on with her life and scratch it all down to experience, or try and show her that this time I mean business and try to reconcile with her? The issue with the relationship has nearly always been the moving in and building a nest phase she wanted 'more' and I was unable to give it to her which is down to my own immaturity to the whole thing. Now I realise that it's not actually a bad idea and comes with more pro's than con's I just wish I realised it sooner... Thoughts?
Author mousemart Posted June 7, 2014 Author Posted June 7, 2014 UPDATE: Realising that this woman is gone (or going) away from my life is getting to me. In the past when we have broken up its always been fine after the dust has settled and we have had a talk. I'm starting to think that maybe this time talking about it and making promises isn't going to cut it. You don't no what you've had until its gone they say and it's very true. I don't want any person to be with me, I want this woman and it feels like only her will do, I have knuckled down within myself to find out how I can show her that I feel this way - words are not going to work as quickly as I hope so I'm going to do the stupidest (or best thing) in my life... I am going to propose to her, could go either way but then I feel that if it does not happen the way I planned then at least I know deep down that reconciliation is either a long way off or never going to happen. Torn about the idea though, because no matter how hard it is for me - I know it will be hard for her. Do I take a chance at happiness or do I spare her the pain of saying no?
Survivor12 Posted June 7, 2014 Posted June 7, 2014 So, you took her for granted, didn't want to commit, controlled the direction of your relationship for 11years, and were apathetic about the breakup, but the moment she has a other man in her life, BAM!, you are a changed man! You may think that you can sell that to "a bunch of strangers", but I can assure you that people here aren't stupid and can see right through you. Proposing is your way of raising the bar, because you are afraid of being rejected if you merely tell her that you are a changed man and want her back. It's your way of trying to get her attention & trump the new guy. Even if you succeed in getting her back (I hope she's smarter than than), you will soon be making excuses and back pedaling. Leave the girl alone and give her a chance to enjoy her freedom. If you care so much about HER (and not just "winning"), give her time to live without you for a while and decide what SHE wants. Enjoy your personal space, and spend some time reflecting on what real changes you can make within yourself that will make you a better partner. Change takes time, and it's obvious that you are still the same guy you were three months ago. All you are interested in is what YOU want. Until you are able to share the reins in a relationship, you aren't ready for one. 1
Author mousemart Posted June 7, 2014 Author Posted June 7, 2014 (edited) Valid points there, but really If I thought she wanted me too I would just walk away. Talking to her friends, family a few of my own friends the jury is still out as to the reason why...Some say it's a her raising the bar and giving me a kick up the arse, others as you've said are just 'walk away' do NC and see what happens. So there is some information which clouds the waters so to speak and to turn around and say you can 'see right through me' is impossible because you don't know all the facts (and its a bit too much to completely go into here) my first thought to your reply was 'invalid - impulsive' but you do have some good points also. I mean we all have our problems and quirks, and for me to go into them here without permission is a bit below the belt. And it's not about the other 'man' I've known about that for a while, I have just done some searching to try and tell who I want to be with. And the whole situation has changed somewhat. You have to remember we have been through this at other times in the relationship. She end's it, sometimes a bloke is involved or I cave and give her what she wants. Again nil points to you one that one. Spoke to my father about it today, his first reply was she is manipulating you into getting what she wants, maybe she is or maybe she isn't I dont know. But if someone is manipulated like that but it's also what they want and just needed a push - is it really that bad? Oh and don't read anything into the 'strangers' it is what it is. Your a stranger - I'm a stranger I cant see any problem with that. Edited June 7, 2014 by mousemart
Author mousemart Posted June 7, 2014 Author Posted June 7, 2014 Oh and as I said, we have been through this a few times before with other matters. The problem with be to commit was that it's a semi distance relationship, we both have our own 'base' as it were. And I'm there thinking well it's fine living together, but I know who is out on his ear if things go tit's up. So naturally I have been apprehensive about the whole thing. I think I've done well to get to this point! Painting me out to be the bad guy, sure 'see right through me' Hmm.
Grumpybutfun Posted June 7, 2014 Posted June 7, 2014 She isn't manipulating you because she left. If she was, when you told her you would give her what she wanted she would have came back to you. Honestly, you need to work on yourself. You need to figure out why you can't commit to someone whom you genuinely care about and who loves you, and why this has to be about ultimatums. Maybe she just knew that she wanted commitment and traditional marriage and you did not so she moved on. Obviously since we only know what you are telling us, we don't have all the facts, but with your history and with the longevity of your inability to commit, maybe it is best if you let her move on. Sometimes love isn't enough for some people. Differing values calls for different needs in a relationship and if you can't meet hers unless she leaves and you panic, then you probably aren't going to be able to follow through with that commitment anyway. Your conversation with your father does concern me because suggesting someone you love is manipulating you makes me think he has some issues with relationships himself...of course, I could be wrong but as a father of three, that isn't how I would help my child, planting horrible insults to his gf. If you think she is manipulating you then you don't need to be with someone who is that desperate for her needs to be met that she would do something that would destroy your relationship in the interim. Get thee to therapy to figure out your commitment issues, ask yourself if marriage is even what you want for your life, and let your enlightenment to your own soul guide you. Eleven years is a long time to be unsure of anything. It sounds like she just wasn't the right woman for you. You talk about the issues she has that you won't divulge so apparently there are more problems in your relationship than commitment issues. If so, maybe this is for the best and it is time for both of you to find someone who is more compatible. Regardless, you need to figure out why you lack the ability to pull the trigger...commit or leave, but don't sit on a fence for eleven years. Good luck, Grumps 1
Author mousemart Posted June 7, 2014 Author Posted June 7, 2014 (edited) Thanks Grumps, that was well rounded. It's hard to write exactly what I mean so I'm certain things may get misconstrued. Yeah my old man is like that, failed to mention that after he said that he assured me that there would only be one way to find out and if I was certain he would support me - or help pick up the pieces afterwards so he is not all that bad. He is 60 and I'm in my thirties, so we don't **** about and hold each others hand when we talk... The problem with the 'give her what she wants she would have come back to me' whilst sound is just words. Words were hard at that moment but she said (basically) it's just words and people needed to back up what they say with actions which is true enough I suppose. The woman didn't tell me "No, never going to happen - get stuffed and walk away" which in theory would make things a damn sight easier and I wouldn't be here = I would be healing! Eleven years is a long time, but we have had our NC's and other partners in that time when we were in that 'phase' or cycle I don't know what to call it. I don't think I need therapy about it, do I? I mean the fear associated with the commitment is a product of our past relationship behaviour. She (strange referring to someone as 'she') has brought the commitment thing up relitivley late in the relationship, I mean maybe the past 8/9 months (just a guess) and its still a long time depending on how you look at it. I was apprehensive because I didn't want to be put in the position of being out on the street if anything went wrong because in a way I have been wondering 'what next, will she tell me to go because I fail to open the cornflakes correctly' = that was an exaggeration btw. Also the prospect of children being involved complicates matters further, we are adults and we can do what we want, but child involved... Hmm I don't know. I want children but I don't want a child brought up in a broken home = that might be the answer in itself... Part of me thinks it could all be a 'push' and walk away because you wouldn't want anyone like that in your life. But then thinking about it there is nothing else to 'give' if we move in together and start a family. Don't take that the wrong way people, of course you give but I mean that there is nothing else... Hmm as serious or high up the scale as the moving in and starting a family. I think any further 'pushes' would involve me sleeping on the couch. I obviously don't know for certain but I think her 'baby clock' is ticking which would complicate things. If the tables was turned and she was here I know she would not divulge anything personal about me. I can talk about what she has done to me by the way of actions, because it involves me ofc I can i have that right or even what I think about it. But to turn round to a bunch of strangers (no offence) that it all stems from her childhood because her mother and father were axe murderers is unfair on her <- that reason is completely untrue! But I hope you get what I'm trying to say. Sorry if it makes it hard for people to see what is what I just think that it is being respectful of someone's personal life however misguided that may seem. So yeah, rounded up her and myself have been in positions like this before, It might be that we are stuck in this 'cycle' of give and take. We split up the heart grows fonder and we reconcile to do it all over again punishing ourselves. Which is why I came here just to talk about it... Edited June 7, 2014 by mousemart
loversquarrel Posted June 7, 2014 Posted June 7, 2014 It is really difficult to give advice when all there is to go on is a very brief synopsis of an 11 yr. relationship. This is one of those situations in which all that is there is one side of the story when two are needed, but I will try to offer up my opinion on the matter. If, over a span of 11 years you could not find the will to move forward with this woman there has to be a solid reason. I see a person who is unhappy with the relationship and grabbing on to "ideal" qualities your girlfriend brings to the table. Could your relationship lack passion? Fun? Does being with her make you feel anxious? I also wonder if you are more in love with the idea of this relationship than you are actually in love with the person? I would venture to guess that right now you are sad and missing her - who wouldn't after 11 years?, but if you were to get back together with her you would probably in all likely hood end up right back to where you started - unhappy and unwilling to commit. Where things stand right now between the two of you - you alone and with her dating - could be her punishing you, more than just a kick in the ass, maybe your dad is right to say she may be manipulating you, forcing you into "fighting" to be with her, but who knows? Only she does - impossible for anyone to answer, but your dad knows her better than any of us. Lastly, when people are in love with one another they have a strong feeling of wanting to be together and move forward in a relationship. Doesn't seem to me you are "in love", but rather just love her - there is a substantial difference. 1
Author mousemart Posted June 7, 2014 Author Posted June 7, 2014 Thanks Loversquarrel I do understand what your saying and they may be an element of truth in it. This relationship is very strange! I really don't know how to put it into words I mean it could be that's it's a true dysfunctional / destructive relationship where none involved are angels and we thrive on the very opposite of the norm. I really don't know. I can tell you that she is the love of my life and its the same with her, it's strange the lengths we have gone to in the past to protect each other even when we are not together. It really is unconditional... I think your idea of me only loving the relationship is good, but I think it's the exact opposite! I'm in love with the person but the other stuff is what has been giving / gave me problems. It's gone on so long that it's almost like were married, but we both have separate homes we go to when we are annoyed or fed up with each other. Perhaps that's always been the problem and it's been too easy for one of us to leave and go back to our homes instead of actually going through the awkward living together but angry sleeping on the couch phase and learning how to sort out the problems by talking through it without the luxury/burden of simply saying 'I'm going home' or 'I think it's best if you go now' It's almost like a double edged sword, sounds great in theory but it could have caused us more problems... 1
loversquarrel Posted June 7, 2014 Posted June 7, 2014 Yep, dysfunctional is correct and this is an unhealthy relationship. I have been there - so called unconditional love and the constant cycle of back and forth - almost as if the passion and love is there but it still isn't true. True love allows for co-existence and is balanced. Your relationship lacks the crucial components of foundation and stability, without the two it will not last. She recognized that the games are over and now its time to move forward while you are still stuck. She is reaching her breaking point with you. 1
todreaminblue Posted June 7, 2014 Posted June 7, 2014 (edited) I had a fifteen year relationship we have now not been together for over seven years, i made a decision in the early years post breakup as i was actually single, if he proposes thats the only way i would go back, he would have to re-engage and then in a short time marry me, within a few years he was missing me but wanted a clandestine type relationship that was hidden from others as he is with someone else he wanted to see what happened. I did not want that,i wrote a closure letter i have not seen him since we are friends we talk often we have children. Now, if I was in a relationship then or now, I would not dump a guy I thought had a future with me and believed in the same things i do about marriage and commitment.I would not go back to my ex at any stage single or otherwise.It has just been too long and i have outgrown that period of my life in leaps and bounds, I refuse to go backward.My ex knows he wasnt right for me and he truly does want me to be happy.I would not go out again with any ex i have been with intimately before.They are my exes for a reason Maybe OP you have a small window of opportunity , to me, it isn't justified or moral or for that matter ethically sound to want someone when they are in a current relationship, to me, personally, it is only justified if that person was single and not taken and the urgency that you feel would be the same to engage and marry her. I feel it is a relationship if you truly just want someone to be happy and you know that person,has your happiness wrapped up in who you are, who they are and who you both are together as a couple, regardless of attachment status that seems to have propelled you to action.that propulsion in my mind is not one of longevity that would last.I wish you all the best in whatever action you decide to have.In my mind I would think morally you have to allow the relationship she has now to stay its course.If it ends, then that would be a time you could offer a proposal and say why you delayed the offer......best of luck ....deb Edited June 7, 2014 by todreaminblue
Grumpybutfun Posted June 8, 2014 Posted June 8, 2014 Thanks for clarifying as best as you could. No, you don't need therapy. I thought you meant you had commitment issues with everyone and everything, but it is just her and this relationship so let me try to come at it from that angle. Life with someone else is about balance. You have the emotional with her but do you have the logical? Your own counsel tells you that you feel trepidation, therefore you have to ask yourself if you feel logically that she is the best person to raise children and share your life with. Is she happy, loyal, stable, calm, responsible, dependable, joyful, focused, mentally and emotionally and physically healthy? Are you equals in all things? When I am in doubt, I usually know it is because my gut is telling me my that something is imbalanced about something. You want her because the end is the only other option, but is it really enough to erase your doubts and make love enough? Love is one half of what is needed for a long term stable relationship. Logic is another. As someone who has a beautiful twenty year marriage to someone who overcame child abuse issues, I can tell you that I always wanted her, to be with her, no doubts even when it was hard for her to deal with those child abuse issues. Emotionally and logically, it was balanced because I was of such value to her that she worked her stuff out and she maintained and we still have a happy, peaceful relationship where the only drama and passion happens in sexual intimacy. Everything else about our relationship has been super easy. I am her rock but I am not her punching bag. If you two are having issues due to her issues, she needs to take responsibility for those issues and work them out however she needs to for you to have a healthy relationship. If she isn't willing to do so, this might be exactly what you two need, to go your separate ways. Take a few steps back from your emotional side and reevaluate. Your gut is giving you counsel. Do you trust yourself enough to take that counsel? Best of luck, Grumps
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