firmness Posted June 1, 2014 Posted June 1, 2014 After reading so many posts here it seems that there is a lot of data to be had. Even an amateur sociologist could come to some reasonable conclusions using qualitative research methods. As such a researcher, I have noticed a few patterns here. (Note: This is not official or appropriate reasearch - just patterns being pointed out by someone rigorously trained to point out patterns) They may seem controversial, but I encourage you to read a variety of posts and threads and draw your own conclusions. So here goes: 1. People cheat. Men and women cheat in similar proportions and for similar reasons. There are few, if any, real gender distinctions seem to be strong except for one - the way we judge the other sex when it comes to fidelity. 2. Marriage, contracts, prenups and obsessing about your partner cheating seem to increase the likelihood of it happening. There is an actual study that supports the idea (no such thing as real "proof" or absolutes when it comes to such things) that the more you try to stop cheating, the more you make it likely to happen. Humans - go figure. Marriage is a punitive construct. It is not meant to bind trusting people together, but rather it serves as a contract that provides legal footing for one partner to go after the other. This undermines trust at its very core. It is hard to get past this as we get older. How many of your best friends have a contract with you to STAY friends - forever? 3. People get married and seem to completely adopt a perspective of privilege. Men and women may vary in the way they do this, but it seems to be in equal proportions. Men still tend to expect women to be good wives, and women tend to expect men to tolerate emotional abuse. There are many other things to be said here, I just picked up the two no-brainers. Do not take my word - read enough posts and you will see the same pattern if you let it emerge. If you see other patterns, please chime in. 4. There is little chance that this will ever be fixed. In the same way that we have political views that tend to become more deeply embedded in us regardless of evidence, data, proof, and outcomes - hell, people support political parties and a variety of "isms" even when they get abused by them! So as time goes on, we take in information with our existing lenses making it much less likely that we can see these patterns and find common ground. The kneejerk reactions of both men and women here make that clear. The only hope I have is that this is a place that people come when they are temporarily upset or despondent and that they can be more reasonable over time. Nonetheless there seems to be a steady stream of new blood. 5. Virtually ever question is a repeat question or a new twist on an old one. There seems to be something about us that we would rather post our own stuff rather than look at the thousands of posts that answer the very same thing that happened to Joe or Sally last month. This lends support to the need for justice AND care. People want to be heard and understood - not patronized. This also tends to be a male/female thing with men seeking justice and women seeking comfort. So either way, we cannot get that by reading why Joe's wife cheated on him, Jim (with a virtually identical story) wants to know why his wife cheated on him. I could go on, but those are the main ones. What do you think? 1
melell Posted June 1, 2014 Posted June 1, 2014 Too many variations to apply decent scientific method imo.
Author firmness Posted June 1, 2014 Author Posted June 1, 2014 Too many variations to apply decent scientific method imo. I would go after the sample before the variation. But a valid point nonetheless. I admitted as much.
No Limit Posted June 1, 2014 Posted June 1, 2014 People mostly haven't put deeper thought into marriage, and in time one or both who are 'binded' by it find out that they've signed up for something they didn't want. Not an excuse to cheat, but still naive. I only wonder what makes you so criticizing about marriage in itself. Yes, it is a contract, but that doesn't mean it has to undermine trust. A couple that cares about each other shouldn't use it to pressure one another. In fact, beside having to wear a couple of rings and maybe one of them getting a new name, there shouldn't be any change to their relationship at all. If there is, then you know you've married the wrong person. That's actually something that tends to confuse me - what use does marriage have?
Friskyone4u Posted June 1, 2014 Posted June 1, 2014 I agree with you that both sexes will continue to cheat in relatively equal numbers now. But I believe there are things that increase your odds of being cheated on other than obsessing about it making it more likely. I think there are non controllable situations for cheating that nothing can change . We can't stop our spouses from interacting with the other sex at work, at the grocery store, kids sporting events or anything that can happen by just leaving the house . An affair can start by the simplest of interactions. No analysis or worry will ever be able to predict or stop this. However, both sexes constantly allow their spouses or partners to put themselves in situations where thee is a much greater chance of inappropriate behavior. I will only use one example and on this one it is the me. Who are more likely to be BS. If you look at infidelity boards you will constantly see affairs starting on girls night out or boys night out. As a man, this is how it happened to me and it started because I did not want to be controlling or possessive so I sat back and did nothing while on a regular basis my wife got dressed up in her sexiest club clothes, and went out with her girlfriends, some single and divorced, to clubs filled with horny men just wanting to get in her pants. Add in alcohol and peer pressure not to be square when a guy asks her to dance or sit down and talk, and you can fill in the blanks. Very few people go out planning to have an affair but when you keep getting in the same environment over and over again, all it takes is one moment of bad judgement and the downward slope has started. This happens to warn in reverse as well but there is one big difference. Guys don't give a Damm if your wife has her wedding ring on or not. Most women will want no part of a married man. Separate vacations result in the same thing . Read the posts about an affair starting while on a separate girls or boys only vacation especially when they are at a resort that resembles spring break. Again, these are things that we do have some control over. There is a big difference between having a drink once on a while without your spouse or partner, but if this becomes a regular part of their life where once a week they go out and at single life you will surely wind up asking for advice on this board 3
jnel921 Posted June 1, 2014 Posted June 1, 2014 My guess is that there will be a second post with your quantitative findings... This is a place where we come to share our stories seek support, advice and sometimes hear things that we may not want to... and it may sound or look repetitive and hopeless to you but its not. You are lurking, taking notes and making generalized statements. Most of what you wrote does not apply to me personally and I have been a member for 10 years. So this is not temporary for me. Some of us really want to be supportive and share our experience. With that said...Hit us up when you are sincerely feeling our pain. 5
Hope Shimmers Posted June 1, 2014 Posted June 1, 2014 After reading so many posts here it seems that there is a lot of data to be had. Even an amateur sociologist could come to some reasonable conclusions using qualitative research methods. As such a researcher, I have noticed a few patterns here. (Note: This is not official or appropriate reasearch - just patterns being pointed out by someone rigorously trained to point out patterns) They may seem controversial, but I encourage you to read a variety of posts and threads and draw your own conclusions. So here goes: 1. People cheat. Men and women cheat in similar proportions and for similar reasons. There are few, if any, real gender distinctions seem to be strong except for one - the way we judge the other sex when it comes to fidelity. 2. Marriage, contracts, prenups and obsessing about your partner cheating seem to increase the likelihood of it happening. There is an actual study that supports the idea (no such thing as real "proof" or absolutes when it comes to such things) that the more you try to stop cheating, the more you make it likely to happen. Humans - go figure. Marriage is a punitive construct. It is not meant to bind trusting people together, but rather it serves as a contract that provides legal footing for one partner to go after the other. This undermines trust at its very core. It is hard to get past this as we get older. How many of your best friends have a contract with you to STAY friends - forever? 3. People get married and seem to completely adopt a perspective of privilege. Men and women may vary in the way they do this, but it seems to be in equal proportions. Men still tend to expect women to be good wives, and women tend to expect men to tolerate emotional abuse. There are many other things to be said here, I just picked up the two no-brainers. Do not take my word - read enough posts and you will see the same pattern if you let it emerge. If you see other patterns, please chime in. 4. There is little chance that this will ever be fixed. In the same way that we have political views that tend to become more deeply embedded in us regardless of evidence, data, proof, and outcomes - hell, people support political parties and a variety of "isms" even when they get abused by them! So as time goes on, we take in information with our existing lenses making it much less likely that we can see these patterns and find common ground. The kneejerk reactions of both men and women here make that clear. The only hope I have is that this is a place that people come when they are temporarily upset or despondent and that they can be more reasonable over time. Nonetheless there seems to be a steady stream of new blood. 5. Virtually ever question is a repeat question or a new twist on an old one. There seems to be something about us that we would rather post our own stuff rather than look at the thousands of posts that answer the very same thing that happened to Joe or Sally last month. This lends support to the need for justice AND care. People want to be heard and understood - not patronized. This also tends to be a male/female thing with men seeking justice and women seeking comfort. So either way, we cannot get that by reading why Joe's wife cheated on him, Jim (with a virtually identical story) wants to know why his wife cheated on him. I could go on, but those are the main ones. What do you think? As a person with a master's degree in epidemiology (which is the quantitative assessment of patterns - in my case, of diseases, but the same thing applies) I would say that any conclusion you arrive at based only on this forum, and that you attempt to apply to the general population, is completely flawed. This is because you cannot generalize people on forums like this to the overall population. Read up on selection bias and how it affects generalizability of results to large populations. 9
Hope Shimmers Posted June 1, 2014 Posted June 1, 2014 Seems too generous to me. Or, at least, I an a bit confused. Having read threads/posts on this forum for about six years now (because I am, unfortunately, in the same boat as those who post their heart-break and concern), I'd simply say the OP seems to not be sufficiently knowledgeable about what he speaks as concerns infidelity. Epidemiology is perhaps too broad here. Pertains something more specialized such as "betrayal-ology", or some such thing? My heart breaks for them. I would contend that many posters on here have been "overly educated" - to the level of a PhD and beyond - in infidelity and such matters. I guess what I am saying is that formal education is not necessarily at all useful in the matters of the heart. And, by the way, I have two MS degrees and a PhD (in math and science). Completely irrelevant to my struggle. Formal education has nothing to do with anything, except when people try to make it so. I was not trying to imply that posters should have any specific formal education about anything. I was just stating my opinion that the conclusions drawn by the OP are not necessarily accurate in my opinion and as such, I hope others will not necessarily buy into them at face value. 2
hillybilly45 Posted June 1, 2014 Posted June 1, 2014 I agree with jnel921...I am a recent member and some of you may have read my post... I joined this forum because I made a mistake, not by cheating,as such,but by allowing a dead relationship ( my marriage) to carry on and not ending it soon enough, for allowing a terrible narcissistic, sociopath aka my Affair Partner to take advantage of my vulnerability and go through five years of emotional abuse to be left jobless by his manipulations... I would like to post my feelings and have my say... It is an a outlet for me... Currently I am in no frame of mind to advice others... I have though read other posts and I have not found one similar to mine. Maybe you could help?? Things happen in people's life and I do hope you can control your life in a way that you will always be in a position to sit on the periphery and make pompous analysis... I speak for myself... I never wanted to start my affair ( you can read my posts) and when it did I did not want to end it. I am not into self punishment.
Trimmer Posted June 1, 2014 Posted June 1, 2014 (edited) As a person with a master's degree in epidemiology (which is the quantitative assessment of patterns - in my case, of diseases, but the same thing applies) I would say that any conclusion you arrive at based only on this forum, and that you attempt to apply to the general population, is completely flawed. This is because you cannot generalize people on forums like this to the overall population. Read up on selection bias and how it affects generalizability of results to large populations. Indeed. I noticed a big stumble right out of the gate, with the opening statement: After reading so many posts here it seems that there is a lot of data to be had. [Lots of data from self-selected group] ≠ [useful data for drawing broad conclusions] I was a little surprised at this, as when I first read the OP, I though it said he/she was a researcher, but on closer reading: Even an amateur sociologist could come to some reasonable conclusions using qualitative research methods. As such a researcher, I have noticed a few patterns here. ... I'm now reading this to mean he/she is copping to being an "amateur", so now it makes a bit more sense. (To the OP: I'm not pointing that out as a slur against you, just trying to understand whether you actually have a background in research and data analysis...) Edited June 1, 2014 by Trimmer 1
Trustnoone Posted June 1, 2014 Posted June 1, 2014 After all the research, data collection, pie charts, graphs, geological locations, length of marriage, age of couples, and reading of love shack over a year, I came to one astounding conclusion... My WW is broken. Wher is the returns line forming??
Man Mountain Makino Posted June 1, 2014 Posted June 1, 2014 I could go on, but those are the main ones. What do you think? Dubious conclusions. Not a particularly good work of meaningful scholoarship. I'd put a lot more work into it.
TiredFamilyGuy Posted June 1, 2014 Posted June 1, 2014 (edited) Re: Marriage, it is a statement of commitment. Partly for historical reasons (preserving familial wealth and connections). But there are also many reasons for making a commitment that still apply: e.g. to to establish a stable framework for bringing up children. Some people are more equal to giving the commitment and keeping it than others, which does not undermine it as a yardstick of what a relationship can be. IMHO, of course. Edited June 1, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
WrinkledForehead Posted June 2, 2014 Posted June 2, 2014 As a person with a master's degree in epidemiology (which is the quantitative assessment of patterns - in my case, of diseases, but the same thing applies) I would say that any conclusion you arrive at based only on this forum, and that you attempt to apply to the general population, is completely flawed. This is because you cannot generalize people on forums like this to the overall population. Read up on selection bias and how it affects generalizability of results to large populations. Not to mention the glaring experimenter bias against marriage.
alwayshere Posted June 2, 2014 Posted June 2, 2014 So.....men expect women to be good wives and women expect men to tolerate abuse.... That one statement tells me everything I need to know. The ugly truth about cheating is that it is selfish, deceptive, and hurtful.
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