kaylan Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 (edited) While part of me is romantic, part of me is very realistic and practical. I accept the reality that not every marriage lasts forever. I recognize and accept that a lot of good love can be had even if a relationship doesnt last till death. I actually believe thats kind of the default with humans anyways (that we are serial monogamists imo) This all said, Ive been thinking about prenups lately because a decent number of my peers are starting to get engaged or married. And one of my old buddies got one, but I didnt go into detail with him about it. My feelings with regard to divorce and assets...is that if one person wasnt working...then that person deserves some spousal support until they get on their feet. And only within reason though. I dont believe in a very long time of spousal support (whatever "long" is depends on the length of the marriage). I also dont believe in a spouse getting an exorbitant share of someones wealthy if they did nothing to contribute to creating it. Moving on, with regard to two working spouses, I feel if a divorce happens, both people should go their own ways, and split only joint assets....and only for the correct percentage of their investment. Of course in all this, child support is completely separate and everything should be done in best interest of the kid(s). Now with the way this relates, I know this will prolly get in my way as I get older (27 atm). I know a lot of women look at relationships and stuff in a more romantic light than I. As I said, Im romantic too...but also realistic...so I wont be in a rush to get married. And sometimes Im not sure if Ill ever marry. And even if I do, I cant sit and tell myself "this is really forever". People grow, people change, time goes on...etc etc. And on top of my own uncertainty on the finality of marriage, I know discussion of prenups turn some women off. I imagine the kind of woman I tend to be drawn to wouldnt mind such discussion if I were ever close to marriage...but Im sure it can be unnerving to many women. Its just that sometimes in my mind I think "damn....half the people I know over 40 are divorced or separated...why go through all that? Anyways, lets say your dating a person who thinks the way I do? Would you bail early knowing they didnt seem dead set on being married one day? Its not that Im not a loyal dude. I just kinda realize and accept marriage for what it appears to be. And lets say your on the verge of marriage and prenups come up. Does that scare you off? I kind of expect and accept that it will scare of some women. I dont mind it that much really. I just wanna get a discussion going since Ive been thinking about this. Plus from what I hear from dudes in their 30s...is that marriage questions come up sooner with women over 30. So while I may not have to worry now...if Im single into my older years, Im expecting to be questioned a bit on this. Edited May 30, 2014 by kaylan
Phoe Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 I have no problem with prenups. My boyfriend already told me that if we were to get married, there would be a prenup. No if's and's or but's. Fine by me, it's perfectly reasonable and understandable.
Keenly Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 I have no problem with prenups. My boyfriend already told me that if we were to get married, there would be a prenup. No if's and's or but's. Fine by me, it's perfectly reasonable and understandable. The sound logic... It burns the retinas. I never understood how exactly a signed piece of paper made two people love each other more than the day before they received it, anyway. 2
Phoe Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 The sound logic... It burns the retinas. I never understood how exactly a signed piece of paper made two people love each other more than the day before they received it, anyway. It's just the fairest option, given the ridiculousness of how divorces can pan out, screwing the man over. Both parties should feel safe entering the marriage, and if absolutely necessary, should feel safe exiting. Not to say I take divorce lightly. It will always be the last option on my list of things to do.
mammasita Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 What if you met a woman who made more than you that approached you with a prenup? I'd love to get married but I'll be damned if I end up paying out alimony. Fu(k that.
Ninjainpajamas Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 I have no problem with prenups. My boyfriend already told me that if we were to get married, there would be a prenup. No if's and's or but's. Fine by me, it's perfectly reasonable and understandable. Well now, he wouldn't want to have to give-up that comfy RV mattress... now that I remember! at least I think that was you. 1
Keenly Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 What if you met a woman who made more than you that approached you with a prenup? I'd love to get married but I'll be damned if I end up paying out alimony. Fu(k that. Where do I sign? Prenup + rich spouse = I'm more likely to work harder on our problems than try and divorce.
mammasita Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 Where do I sign? Prenup + rich spouse = I'm more likely to work harder on our problems than try and divorce. As a woman I feel the same way......gimme a prenup. I'm not going anywhere lol. Make more than me......BRING IT!!
sweetjasmine Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 Anyways, lets say your dating a person who thinks the way I do? Would you bail early knowing they didnt seem dead set on being married one day? I likely would have, yes. Because I was dead set on being married one day. And lets say your on the verge of marriage and prenups come up. Does that scare you off? If neither of us had any meaningful assets to protect, I'd view it as a sh-t test and a sign of uncertainty and insecurity. It'd be a giant red flag saying, "I'm distrustful and not ready to get married."
Woggle Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 A prenup should pretty much be a must when you get married. Most of us want it to last when we tie the knot but reality these days is way way different and you need to protect yourself. Anybody that says different is living in fantasy land or has ulterior motives.
pyramid Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 By the time we divorced I made 4-5x as much as my ex-h. We didn't have a prenup (got married right out of college). I had to pay alimony for several years. We'd had problems for several years before divorce and he refused to address them or go to counseling. I was the one who left... I do feel like the settlement was in his favor but I felt guilty for leaving and gave in on a few points where I could have fought harder. Since we were married so young, I don't know that we could have pulled together an effective/enforceable prenup. My current bf has 3 marriages under his belt and doesn't necessarily want to get married again (is fine with "everything but the paper"). We are both 40-ish, own property, etc and are in the same income bracket. He tends to be impulsive where I'm conservative, so if we were to marry we'd definitely have a prenup to cover the case where he decides to quit his job and live in a teepee or something If you are considering this, don't be like my friend's husband and spring the prenup on her a week before the wedding. It should be mentioned early on as a possibility. 1
d0nnivain Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 We have one. They are not cheap to get & it takes a while to put together the required financial disclosures. All the cards have to be on the table or it's invalid from the get go. If you do not have meaningful assets to protect at the time you marry a prenup may not help you later. The longer the marriage, the less valid the initial agreement becomes over time in most US States. When DH & I did ours, I came at it from the perspective that marriage is about love but divorce is about money. I also thought it would be better to negotiate this stuff up front when we both loved each other & wanted to work things out then to try to split everything up on the back end if we couldn't stand the sight of each other. Most of ours is pretty equitable: You walk out with what you brought in & what we amassed together, other than inheritances, would be split 50/50 unless future child care considerations made that inequitable. Give our older ages, we were concerned that if we were blessed with children there was a substantial likelihood that the child could have special needs & the parent with physical custody would need certain accommodations for the child's well being. The one inequitable provision on which I refused to budge was the dog. Animals are considered property by the law. The dog was mine before I met DH & even though DH loved him, I wanted to make darn sure that we would not be fighting over MY dog. The process of putting the agreement together was eye opening for both of us. We were forced to have some uncomfortable conversations but as awkward as they were, they made us stronger as a couple & better able to communicate about all the tough stuff, not just money. 4
iris219 Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 I also dont believe in a spouse getting an exorbitant share of someones wealthy if they did nothing to contribute to creating it. Moving on, with regard to two working spouses, I feel if a divorce happens, both people should go their own ways, and split only joint assets....and only for the correct percentage of their investment. Better get a pre-nup then. Or marry someone who makes a lot more than you. The law states that when married everything (expect things like inheritances) is joint assets. My FI's ex got a large portion (almost half; he was able to talk her down) of his retirement. Did she help him make this money? No, but the law says because he earned it while married, it's equally hers. He makes more so she wasn't required to give him anything even though she worked their entire marriage as well. Anyways, lets say your dating a person who thinks the way I do? Would you bail early knowing they didnt seem dead set on being married one day? Yes, I'd bail if he wasn't interested in marriage. And lets say your on the verge of marriage and prenups come up. Does that scare you off? I have no problem signing a pre-nup. That would not scare me off.
sweetjasmine Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 A prenup should pretty much be a must when you get married. Most of us want it to last when we tie the knot but reality these days is way way different and you need to protect yourself. Anybody that says different is living in fantasy land or has ulterior motives. If you have no assets, what are you protecting? It's not a "must" for everyone. For some, it's a complete waste of time and legal fees. 1
Raena Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 I'd have no problem with signing a prenup either. I don't want what isn't mine anyways. If I want out, I just want out period. It's probably why I've never remarried. My ex-h was so worried when we divorced, he thought for sure I'd take him to the cleaners because he was making MUCH more than I was when we divorced. I didn't want any of it. I didn't want his money. I wanted love and he didn't give it to me. He spent so much time focusing on working that he completely forgot all about me. Months would go by without seeing each other at all. I walked away with nothing and was perfectly happy doing so. He even went so far as to drain our joint checking account of all the money that was given to us when we got married. I never saw a dime of it. He'd spend some of it and then return the money when he earned it. We never spent any of that money on us. Half of that should have been mine and it would have helped me get on my feet after we split. I walked away feeling good about myself. I was very poor for a long time but I didn't care. So yeah, I'd do it all over again if I had to... and sign a prenup to boot. The difference this time is... I'd make darn sure I had my own money to live off of. I'm a very independent person and can't stand the idea of being reliant upon anyone else for anything.
WrinkledForehead Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 We have one. They are not cheap to get & it takes a while to put together the required financial disclosures. All the cards have to be on the table or it's invalid from the get go. If you do not have meaningful assets to protect at the time you marry a prenup may not help you later. The longer the marriage, the less valid the initial agreement becomes over time in most US States. When DH & I did ours, I came at it from the perspective that marriage is about love but divorce is about money. I also thought it would be better to negotiate this stuff up front when we both loved each other & wanted to work things out then to try to split everything up on the back end if we couldn't stand the sight of each other. Most of ours is pretty equitable: You walk out with what you brought in & what we amassed together, other than inheritances, would be split 50/50 unless future child care considerations made that inequitable. Give our older ages, we were concerned that if we were blessed with children there was a substantial likelihood that the child could have special needs & the parent with physical custody would need certain accommodations for the child's well being. The one inequitable provision on which I refused to budge was the dog. Animals are considered property by the law. The dog was mine before I met DH & even though DH loved him, I wanted to make darn sure that we would not be fighting over MY dog. The process of putting the agreement together was eye opening for both of us. We were forced to have some uncomfortable conversations but as awkward as they were, they made us stronger as a couple & better able to communicate about all the tough stuff, not just money. You know, I like how this reply made me think. My love has many years on me (20) and is far more stable with his career and is financially stable. I'm a single parent & a server busting my butt to provide a home and food for my two kids while I work through school. The thought of a prenup has always turned me off. No way do I expect my love to support me fully; in fact, I swore when I left the father of my children that I would never depend on a man in a financial way again. But I like the conversations. My partner and I discuss a lot of things including our R, marriage, kids, and cohabitation, and I know more discussions need to be had. Perhaps even using the premise of a prenup to initiate conversation might help. I'm not sure how he feels about a prenup. I'm going to get his opinion! 1
Giggle Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 It wouldn't bother me, i'd welcome it. And this is even though there was no fighting at all in either of my divorces. I did piss me off that he has to sign a quick release claim to /my/ house, that his name has never been attached to, that I bought before I even met him. Because being married he has a courtesy claim to it. But it was never an issue, he wasn't going to try to fight about it - its mine. I can see where the discussions that would have to happen for the pre-nup would be beneficial. I don't believe in forever, but I spent 3 years trying to decide about ending this one. There is a thought going around that we should fully commit to marriage being a contract which by law it is. And assign it limits. Say, married for 2 years and both have to be for renewing it.. Parting terms would be worked out beforehand. It couldn't be taken for granted that it would continue. There are cons to that too.
Woggle Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 If you have no assets, what are you protecting? It's not a "must" for everyone. For some, it's a complete waste of time and legal fees. I did have assets though. I had my own home which is now sold but at the time I didn't want to lose it. I had a lot in the bank from good investments. I have a record collection and a jet ski. The boat we bought together but a lot of what we have I owned before marriage. I now consider it ours but I thought it was smart to get a prenup.
firmness Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 What if you met a woman who made more than you that approached you with a prenup? I'd love to get married but I'll be damned if I end up paying out alimony. Fu(k that. This is perfectly reasonable - and fair for every man to feel exactly the same way, since there is an overwhelming (70%) chance that his woman will file for divorce.
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