Read H's Journal [2 year update]

[oldshirt]

I agree your therapist is a quack.

 

Your H has some serious issues and the state of your marriage is in dire straights.

 

That your husband hasn't been in this other gal' s bed is a mere technicality that she doesn't like him. If she happened to have given him the green light, he would've done it and not looked back.

 

If this situation isn't addressed how much longer before he has feelings for another woman that are returned.

 

Give him a specified period of time to soul-search and be prepared to give you some answers and make some future plans, whether those plans are to pull his head out of his ass and work on the marriage with due diligence and in good faith or to divorce and move on.

 

However you need to go into this showdown from a position of strength and determination and not just sit there twiddling your thumbs wondering what he is going to do.

 

Make your own plans for your own future and your own wellbeing. See a lawyer and an independent financial advisor and see what your options are and what you'll need to do in a divorce. Get as prepared for divorce and moving on as possible.

 

And get prepared for reconciliation which in reality will be at least as hard and exhausting as a divorce.

 

When you meet with him demand a future plan and don't back down. Limbo is not an option and living with a brooding, manipulative bully is not an option. Reconciliation towards a happy, healthy, functional marriage or amicable divorce are your only two options and you need to be prepared for both. Don't let him push you around or weasel himself into his own rathole.

 

Time to take a stand for yourself, Velcro your ovaries back on and put him to the wall. If he balks, stonewalls, bullys or manipulates, be prepared and ready, willing and able to walk away and carry on and move forward with your life.

[jbelle6]

"she doesn't seem interested in going to lunch with him"

^so that means he HAS tried to start something if he asked her. An affair has to start somewhere, it doesn't begin with the sex. That IC was so wrong.

 

The defensiveness as mentioned by others said it all though. And the lack of gift on 10yrs? My xh still buys me gifts on holidays, if a man i was still married to forgot me I would be so upset.

[Radu]

I've lurked here a long time and many stories have helped me tremendously. I want your thoughts on what you would believe.

 

Long story short:

 

Married for 10 years as of yesterday. H is 7 years older than me, I am 33 and he is 40. We have 2 children together, 3rd (oldest) child is mine which he helped raise since he was 2. We have both worked from day 1. Our marriage has been tumultuous. We started couples counseling three months ago and after 2 months the therapist suggested individual therapy first since my husband has abandonment and trust issues due to his childhood, so we haven't had a couples session in months.

OK

 

About a year ago he hired an employee, a woman I have never met. She is married. I have had a nagging feeling and have asked him multiple times if there is anything going on or if he has any feelings for her. The response has always been that I am insecure and jealous and I just want to start drama, therefor I have mostly stopped asking.

 

Yesterday was our 10 yr anniversary. He came home and I presented him with a gift. He said he didn't buy me anything, and he noticed the disappointment in my eyes. I said I wasn't angry, just sad because 10 yrs is a milestone. He decided to go to the store to make it up to me.

Doesn't take a genius to know that you are not supposed to miss the wedding anniversary, unless you want the missus to be miserable and even make your own life miserable.

We do miss these things though, especially when other things are on our mind, like the ones you mentioned.

 

While he was gone I had this nagging feeling and I looked through his IPad. I accessed a journal he keeps and it opened to an entry about his employee. I don't remember the exact words but the extent of it is that he was disappointed that she doesn't seem interested in going to lunch with him and that he plays hard to get and she seems indifferent. He states that he wishes she wanted time with him and wishes she needed him.

This is bad, it's normal to have crushes in LTR's and marriage on other ppl, but normal ppl realize they are coming and stop them in one form or another.

They realize the hurt they can cause to their partner, to their family and that in time their relationship will pick up again, as they do tend to have ups and downs.

 

This was very difficult to read. Based on the therapy sessions we attended the therapist told me he doesn't have the ability to be emotional and to show feelings. He is very cold with me, however, I have said these same things to him, I tell him I need him etc, and nothing registered, and now I see these words written by him about another woman.

His feelings keep growing because the has poor control over them.

She does not want to take part into this, and in turn this makes it even more 'valuable' for him.

Again, normal ppl would find a way to extricate themselves from this predicament, but i suspect he can't (does not have the know-how to do it) and it seems he doesn't have the interest either.

 

I asked him about him told him I read his journal. He was upset and said he does not trust me and that he has no privacy. He said this is the reason we are in counseling. (When we first were married and he was distant, I read his email. He viewed this is the worst form of betrayal and says he can't trust me since then.

OK, i understand trust issues.

I have trust issues, it's like my whole life i've waited for stuff to go bad, and never fully trusted ppl, i always think about how they can screw me over.

 

But you have been his wife for 10yrs now, and this happened over a decade ago.

He had no trust issues when you raised his kid, when you had his kids, when you got complete access to his life, when he sleeps next to you during the night, but he has trust issues over you reading his email ?

This is either dramaqueen, or projecting.

Either way, it is a tool for him to divert attention from his behaviour.

 

If he really didn't trust you at all, why did he remained married to you ?; it has been 10yrs.

 

Here's a thought, sometimes when we receive confirmation of a problem we suspected we had, we are less inclined to solve that problem, and expect others to make allowances for us having that problem.

I think this plays a role further on, in your other posts.

 

He said that one of the things he is working through in counseling is looking for validation from other people, and that this entry in his journal was part of that and that he didn't have feelings for her. He was not apologetic and was very cold toward me. He suggested I speak with the therapist.

Wrong, if it was a desire to be needed, to be validated, and she keeps rejecting him, then internally his desire, his need for validation from her will increase.

If it gets powerfull enough and he has poor boundaries, it can lead to an EA/PA.

 

He suggested he would leave and sleep somewhere else. I did not fight or argue, I let him leave without further discussion. Even though I had a feeling, the confirmation hurts tremendously.

 

Please give me your thoughts. What would you do?

It's normal to hurt, but he also needs to accept he hurts you.

The fact he has problems with emotional connections, showing feelings, is all fine and dandy, but what is he doing about it, besides relying on it like a crutch ?

 

----

 

I was right, we had a discussion that turned into the fact that he can't trust me because I read his journal and he doesn't know if he can continue in the marriage. He needs a few days to think.

He is diverting your attention from the bigger issue here.

 

He talked to the children and told them he would be gone for a few days. My oldest fell apart, cried, told him he needed him here. None of this mattered, he won't come home to see them. I would not be able to see my kids suffer this way for me. I would stay home until something definite is decided. Having the kids worry for days is heartless.

Selfishness.

And the bolded part worries me; does he have problems empathizing even with the children ?

 

The therapist sees him individually and me individually as well as couples. I'm not sure if this is the right thing to do, seems odd and I feel the therapist is missing the stepping stone from fantasizing to reality and the lack of commitment to the marriage.

It could lead to trouble, because even though they are supposed to stay neutral, they can't, and to some degree they feel for their patients.

In a situation in a couple where one party is more at fault than the other, what will that therapist do if they formed a connection with both ?

 

I told him if we divorce he will have to tell the children that he's leaving because mommy read my journal.

OK, that was mean ... but considering the bigger problem, it doesn't matter that much.

 

In my heart I know this won't work, my heart breaks for my kids. My feelings go back and forth between just wanting to be done and not wanting to break up my family.

All of this comes down to one simple decision, that is not in your hands.

Is his desire to protect his self, his ego greater or less than his desire to do good by his family ?

 

The thought is painful, but unless he decides to start looking deep down and truly analyze himself with the good and the bad, it doesn't look good.

[EyesOpen]

Thank you so much for all of the replies, advice, and perspectives. This has helped me so much to be stronger and stand my ground.

 

I called him to tell him i needed 2-3 weeks to evaluate the situation and decide what is right for me. I arrived home to find his car in the driveway. He came home to get more clothes since he didn't anticipate being away for more than a few days. I told him he was not allowed to show up unannounced. I told him he needs to respect my space and privacy. He seemed very surprised and quickly got into his car and left.

 

He later called to ask why the change of heart from wanting to keep the family together to needing more time. I told him I needed to think things through and decide what I will and will not accept for my life. I told him I was aware of what I deserve and am not willing to settle for less. I was calm, direct, and unemotional which really threw him off. He then asked about seeing the kids on the weekend. I said sure, no problem. I will spend time with them on Sunday and you can see them Monday. I asked him to let me know when he would arrive and I would have the kids ready (quick exchange, no lengthy discussion or need for him to come in). I quickly got off the phone after this.

 

I have an appointment with a lawyer on Tuesday. I plan on using the next few weeks on researching and learning my options. I may have the lawyer draft the papers in case I decide to pursue this direction. I want to be ready.

 

We will see what the next few weeks bring. I feel very peaceful and confident today, finally.

[Radu]

You need to keep that attitude ... see what it did to him ?

 

The relationship of you following, chasing him, the place he expected you to be in, is starting to be renegociated.

He will challenge that, so be prepared for it.

[Iguanna]

I'm very happy for your attitude, I hope you keep it till the end. I say this cause many times in here I've seen men who find out their wife is cheating and they are so angry, they announce they will do this and that, they have people in here wasting their time to give them advises, and then when the wife starts crying or begging or giving them sex, they change their minds, they go 180 and they are the ones who beg their wife to stay with them. Pathetic. I'm sure you have decided to stay like this till the end. I admire you, I got to say. You seem like a strong and logical woman. Do what you said, find a lawyer, find out your options, your rights, what you are gonna need etc. Your husband was surprised cause he thought you would be begging him to come home and work things out, but you were proud enough not to do this. Good for you and good luck. Keep us informed please. Your story may be helpful to other people in similar situations as well.

[EyesOpen]

I agree, a lot is said in a moment when emotions are running high and the flood gates have been opened. I'm sure a lot of people say things the strongly feel at the time. I don't think it is a waste of time to offer one's perspective and advice as it might help others besides the OP.

 

I can't say what will ultimately come of this. I will say my perspective has changed and my one mind track of keeping the family together at all cost has shifted. I slept peacefully, woke up energized and went to my crossfit class this morning, something I had neglected the last few days due to all of the worrying.

 

During yesterday's conversation I said a had a lot to evaluate and think about but I was certain that I choose to not remain in a relationship with someone who is not fully committed to me and the marriage. I told him I see two options, none of which would be easy. One is to cut our losses and move on, this will be difficult considering we have children, but doable. The other is to fully commit to the marriage and do all that is necessary. This will also be difficult considering the lack of trust I have as well as the behaviors he has displayed. I told him I needed to think about what was best for me and whether or not I'm able or even willing to give anymore.

 

Time will tell and I am not rushing to a conclusion but I am using my time wisely and I'm enjoying this time of internal reflection as I have ignored huge issues in the past for the sake of keeping my family together.

 

I hope no one feels I've wasted their time responding to my post. All of your perspectives have given me strength and more to consider than I originally had. For that I am thankful.

[BetrayedH]

I agree, a lot is said in a moment when emotions are running high and the flood gates have been opened. I'm sure a lot of people say things the strongly feel at the time. I don't think it is a waste of time to offer one's perspective and advice as it might help others besides the OP.

 

I can't say what will ultimately come of this. I will say my perspective has changed and my one mind track of keeping the family together at all cost has shifted. I slept peacefully, woke up energized and went to my crossfit class this morning, something I had neglected the last few days due to all of the worrying.

 

During yesterday's conversation I said a had a lot to evaluate and think about but I was certain that I choose to not remain in a relationship with someone who is not fully committed to me and the marriage. I told him I see two options, none of which would be easy. One is to cut our losses and move on, this will be difficult considering we have children, but doable. The other is to fully commit to the marriage and do all that is necessary. This will also be difficult considering the lack of trust I have as well as the behaviors he has displayed. I told him I needed to think about what was best for me and whether or not I'm able or even willing to give anymore.

 

Time will tell and I am not rushing to a conclusion but I am using my time wisely and I'm enjoying this time of internal reflection as I have ignored huge issues in the past for the sake of keeping my family together.

 

I hope no one feels I've wasted their time responding to my post. All of your perspectives have given me strength and more to consider than I originally had. For that I am thankful.

 

You're doing great. Keep those healthy boundaries about what you're willing to accept. Thinking deeply about what your real dealbreakers are. Think about what you'll really need in order to make continued efforts. Use this time wisely to think through all of the scenarios that might play out and how you would respond. What he will do is an unknown. He might demonstrate remorse. He might want to throw in the towel. He might demand to come home and be miserable. He might spend two weeks with another woman. But keep respecting yourself. If you don't, he most certainly won't.

[RonaldS]

I guess I have a little different perspective on this, given that I shared some of the OP's husband's proclivities.

 

I am divorced now , but it didn't have to end up that way. My relationship feeling (and it's not even a feeling....it's how it was) was that I gave everything I could to my XW in my marriage, but she was a taker. And a big time taker, which meant I was really not getting much in return from her....attention, love, support or friendship. Even though it didn't feel right for several years, I stuck with it. Thought I loved her, thought I was supposed to.

 

And that's where my need for validation and attention became something that was really difficult to control.

 

For the last 5 years of our marriage, I was sort of pushing the envelop a bit when it came to enjoying attention from women. Nothing like spending time alone with a woman or having private text or email conversations. Just absorbing their flirting more than anything. And I never wished I could be with anybody else, nor did I try to make anything happen with anybody. I just enjoyed feeling wanted.

 

Then, the marriage totally fell apart for reasons other than the aforementioned. Money issues, kids, her cold and abusive nature and a general feeling of hopeless stuckness that came over me. I stopped feeling like I had a partner. Then, she crossed one of my lines (maybe my only line). I didn't handle it well, in retrospect. I just shut down to her.

 

So, for the last year and some odd months, I was done. I didn't really know it, but I was out.

 

That's when the validation and attention stuff became a real issue. I wouldn't say that I wanted somebody else, but this thought crossed my mind one day: 'If so many other women do like and want me, why would I spend my life with one who doesn't?'. Once that thought entered my mind, it was over. Then, I used that attention and validation as an encouragement and springboard to looking at the possibility of a life away from my wife.

 

Here's where it gets tricky.

 

I didn't actually want to leave her. At the time, I thought she was my one and only and that I loved her more than anything. The power of self-persuasion. So, when things got rocky and I was communicating to her that I was unhappy, what I wanted to see to make me feel like being married to her was the right life to live was SOMETHING from her....anything....to show that she felt the same. Something to indicate that she loved me and would fight for our marriage. Something. Just wanted to see a flicker of hope from her. Had I, I would have done whatever it took to fix us.

 

Instead, she went in the other direction. Told me how much I hurt her by saying that stuff. Just turned it on me and blamed me for all of the failings of our relationship, and then shut down to me. Cried all the time, tried to make me feel guilty, etc. That pretty much ended the relationship for me, and as we were being completely driven apart, that's when the EA started. And it started by me needing somebody to talk to. It didn't last long, maybe a month and a half, and I had no intention of doing anything with this woman. But I let my wife find out, maybe because I knew she would leave if she did.

 

Even after that, in a weird way, I was still willing to work on the marriage. But she moved out with the kids, and then instantly pulled the 180.

 

A lot of people here advocate for the 180, and in some cases, it's the right thing to do. But what it did for my wife was seal the deal on our marriage ending. It was a bad, bad move on her part. She didn't actually want a divorce, but what I saw, at that time, was that I was married to somebody who did not value me or the marriage, and her turning her back like that completely confirmed that in my mind. We never recovered.

 

Don't take any of this as me sidestepping culpability. I have faced a thousand firing squads over this whole thing, and I have stepped up and taken full responsibility for my actions. But the take home lesson here is that just because one person screwed up does not mean the other person didn't. That angle gets played a lot. OP, if you truly love your husband and marriage, take some time to look not just at him, but at yourself as well. How would your performance in the relationship be graded? What was your role? That's what a good counselor will ask you.

 

In other words, don't get trigger happy here. You probably have a chance to fix this, if that's what you want. But I would say that if you 180 on your husband at this point, you might as well just go file and move on, because that will probably finish it.

[EyesOpen]

Ronald, thank you for sharing your story and your perspective. Here is a little background:

 

I don't claim to be perfect. I'm far from it. Through the years I have worked HARD at making changes that I deemed important for any healthy relationship. I am naturally loving and affectionate, I do things for him because I want him to feel loved, because he is loved by me. I have never withheld intimacy. My children feel loved and nurtured, things he never had from his mom but wanted for his kids. My downside is I grow resentful that nothing that I am doing works, he can't get close to me because he doesn't trust me. Here are examples of why he doesn't trust me, this is what he says and not my interpretation:

 

-I read his emails in year one of marriage. He still brings this up and will not forgive. He is unable to see past it.

 

-He says I don't keep my word. We talked about selling our house, I agreed to do so. When he threw the divorce word out a few months ago (prior to starting counseling) I said I was not comfortable selling the house because I was not sure where things would end up now that divorce was on the table. This was viewed as me not keeping my word on selling the house, so he can't trust my word.

 

-He says he is uncomfortable around me because he doesn't know if/when I'm going to blow up. If I bring up an issue such as "husband, we haven't been spending time together and I miss you. I really want to spend time with you. Can you make time for me." This is viewed as me creating drama and something else he needs to fix because I can't just be content. There have been two times when I did blow up, 2 times in ten years when I could no longer handle his indifference and rejection and I yelled and screamed and told him to get out. Two times in ten years means he doesn't know if/ when I will blow up, therefor conversations cannot be had without him shutting down and accusing me of causing drama.

 

It is clear that he has a lot of issues that stem from his childhood that needs to be worked through. I don't want to break my family up, my parents have been married for 45 years, I understand commitment which is why I have stayed with a man who is indifferent to my needs, refuses to connect with me, will be intimate with me but will never kiss me. This issue with reading his journal shed some light in things. I don't necessarily believe any more that he is unable to connect, I believe he doesn't want to connect with me for whatever reason. I have not been a woman who has been cold and unloving. I have pushed for closeness for years, I have been affectionate even when he wasn't, I have supported him through obtaining his masters degree by not only working full time and going to school as well, but taking care of all household duties, kids, etc. during that time while he focused only on school and work. When he had doubts about his abilities at work, I have always been his biggest fan and always talk him up.

 

I have invested and given a lot to this marriage. Doing what I have been doing has not worked. I simply do not want to be in the marriage if he cannot commit fully to me, if he doesn't love me. If he is constantly looking for validation elsewhere because I read his email in year one and he can't see and appreciate everything I give as imperfect as I may be then he shouldn't be here. It is not fair to me.

[chelsea2011]

Ronald, thank you for sharing your story and your perspective. Here is a little background:

 

I don't claim to be perfect. I'm far from it. Through the years I have worked HARD at making changes that I deemed important for any healthy relationship. I am naturally loving and affectionate, I do things for him because I want him to feel loved, because he is loved by me. I have never withheld intimacy. My children feel loved and nurtured, things he never had from his mom but wanted for his kids. My downside is I grow resentful that nothing that I am doing works, he can't get close to me because he doesn't trust me. Here are examples of why he doesn't trust me, this is what he says and not my interpretation:

 

-I read his emails in year one of marriage. He still brings this up and will not forgive. He is unable to see past it.

 

-He says I don't keep my word. We talked about selling our house, I agreed to do so. When he threw the divorce word out a few months ago (prior to starting counseling) I said I was not comfortable selling the house because I was not sure where things would end up now that divorce was on the table. This was viewed as me not keeping my word on selling the house, so he can't trust my word.

 

-He says he is uncomfortable around me because he doesn't know if/when I'm going to blow up. If I bring up an issue such as "husband, we haven't been spending time together and I miss you. I really want to spend time with you. Can you make time for me." This is viewed as me creating drama and something else he needs to fix because I can't just be content. There have been two times when I did blow up, 2 times in ten years when I could no longer handle his indifference and rejection and I yelled and screamed and told him to get out. Two times in ten years means he doesn't know if/ when I will blow up, therefor conversations cannot be had without him shutting down and accusing me of causing drama.

 

It is clear that he has a lot of issues that stem from his childhood that needs to be worked through. I don't want to break my family up, my parents have been married for 45 years, I understand commitment which is why I have stayed with a man who is indifferent to my needs, refuses to connect with me, will be intimate with me but will never kiss me. This issue with reading his journal shed some light in things. I don't necessarily believe any more that he is unable to connect, I believe he doesn't want to connect with me for whatever reason. I have not been a woman who has been cold and unloving. I have pushed for closeness for years, I have been affectionate even when he wasn't, I have supported him through obtaining his masters degree by not only working full time and going to school as well, but taking care of all household duties, kids, etc. during that time while he focused only on school and work. When he had doubts about his abilities at work, I have always been his biggest fan and always talk him up.

 

I have invested and given a lot to this marriage. Doing what I have been doing has not worked. I simply do not want to be in the marriage if he cannot commit fully to me, if he doesn't love me. If he is constantly looking for validation elsewhere because I read his email in year one and he can't see and appreciate everything I give as imperfect as I may be then he shouldn't be here. It is not fair to me.

 

You're on the right path. You've come to the realization that you can't change someone...all you can do is change yourself. You're doing great. Keep up the good work!

 

I've been where you are and once I finally decided to take control of my own destiny I felt relieved and a heck of a whole lot happier! Keep doing you and stay strong. You're awesome!

[RonaldS]

It's interesting, because on one hand, there are some parallels between my XW and you, and on the other hand, you're quite opposite.

 

My XW was not an affectionate person, and I am very affectionate. If you ever read about the love languages, you can see how this can be an incompatibility. You're affectionate, he's not...not a great recipe.

 

One similarity was the looking through emails, etc. Now, my XW was constantly doing this, throughout our entire relationship. Like, constantly. Hacking into email, hacking into Facebook, hacking into my phone. It bothered me a lot, because it's an implicit accusation. The feeling is, 'you think I'm up to something, so you're sleuthing around trying to find some proof', which shows a lack of trust.

 

The problem is that she snooped around constantly but never found anything. She never found anything, because there was nothing there. But she was also outright with her accusations, and she accused me of cheating on her at least 100 times. I wasn't even doing anything close to that. But, anyway....it just feels weird to be living with somebody who, as soon as you jump in the shower, is digging through all your crap to 'bust' you. It's an uneasy feeling.

 

She found out about the EA because I let her. After she moved out, she made some idiotic comment about how she always knew something was going on. But the reality is that I knew she was snooping, so I just left the evidence out there so she could find it. When she made that comment, I replied 'Congratulations...you finally got one right. What does that make you now? 1 for 500?'. Sort of became a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

Doesn't sound like you are that extreme, and also more giving.

 

Who knows. It might be that your husband doesn't even know. Sometimes, we get to these points on our own, in our heads, and can't even figure out how to process those feelings or what to think or what to do about it.

 

The assumption that a lot of people make in these forums is that every time somebody behaves a certain way in a marriage, that it's well thought-out, planned and from a place of clear decision making. I think that's rare. I think most of the time people are in a state of emotional and existential confusion, if not out-and-out breakdown mode, when these things happen. I think that's because relationships can cultivate, through a feeling of vulnerability, a victim mentality, and in order to process things, it's easier to view the person hurting you as a cold, calculated criminal. But I think most of the time, it's just total chaos and confusion.

 

I guess what I would do is try to talk to your husband. Not from a position of ultimatums, accusations, etc....but rather to present yourself as his wife and a person who is there for them and somebody who would be willing to try to work through those things. If my XW had done that, who knows where we would be.

 

It's worth a try. You know, it's easy to want to go into self-protect mode, but if it falls apart, there's no avoiding all of that pain. Might as well go down fighting.

[EyesOpen]

Just had a conversation with H. Not good at all. I asked him to discuss this issue with the woman and asked him for details so I can process it. He started out alright and quickly became angry. Stated he shouldn't have to explain anything about thoughts that were supposed to be private. He said that I was getting off Scott clean because I wasn't dumb enough to write things down but he is sure I have had similar thoughts about other men. He then refused to discuss any further.

 

This is so hurtful. How am I supposed to believe this guy cares for me at all.

[Yarrow]

You're awesome! You're far too good for him. It's why he was able to make you feel bad for his shortcomings.

 

He's being hurtful because if he can make you feel bad about what he did, then he doesn't have to feel guilty. You can take on all the guilt for him instead. It sounds like he's been doing it for years.

 

But it's not going to work this time. He doesn't care about you. You know this now. The things he is saying are not the words from a person who cares.

[Leigh 87]

No offence but why did you marry a man who is cold and who doesn't show you that he adores you?

[Leigh 87]

I think you should take control of your life and your kids' life. If he needs some time to think then give it to him, but put a deadline. Tell him that in 5 days (for instance) he has to meet you outside the house and be open and honest and have a really big conversation. Let him have his 5 days, then demand this conversation and don't leave the place until you've found a solution. You owe this to yourself, to your marriage and most importantly to your kids.

 

 

You don't owe it to your kids to stay married.

 

You can give them all the love they need. With or without a husband.

 

People grow apart in marriages to the stage where they are no longer in love. It takes acting and forcing love un- naturally simply for the sake of "staying married", when both parties always end up happier when they accept they are not longer in love and move on to new partners one day who are a better fit for their current life stage. Most people I have met grew apart; they meant well initially but they are just not in love 10 years down the track. It never gets better, people don't miraculously fall back in love....... If the love is truly dead.

 

Her husband is clearly no longer in love with his wife, it is as clear as day.

 

People grow apart. I know many folks who are into their second marriages and are a lot happier! They all would have been miserable if they had tried to make it work in the fist marriages.

 

The guy didn't even buy her a gift for their TEN year anniversary! He is totally going through the motions with the OP, he is so NOT in love with her which is sad, all women deserve an adoring partner.

[FredJones80]

People grow apart. I know many folks who are into their second marriages and are a lot happier! They all would have been miserable if they had tried to make it work in the fist marriages.

 

Actually, this is what is wrong with society today. People don't want to work on things, keeping love takes work, keeping a relationship takes work, keeping a marriage together takes work. People just trade in all the time. Relationships and marriages have become disposable.

 

Past statistics have shown that in the U.S. 50% percent of first marriages, 67% of second, and 73% of third marriages end in divorce.

 

So "happier" for a time, until they hit a similar stage of work. Second and Third marriages are more likely to fail than first marriages, to me this shows that the types of people who are getting married second and third times are more likely to be the types of people who give up or don't work at it.

 

I'm not saying people should stay together indefinitely for any reason but far too many people are all about "me me me"

[Iguanna]

@FredJones80 thank you for a great post. I wish young people would read it again and again and just put it in their minds that a relationship needs unstoppable work and we haven't come to earth to only enjoy ourselves and have fun and not care for others.

 

@Leigh: I never proposed they would separate, I said they have to sit down and talk and accept responsibilities, share truths, be honest and then decide if they are willing to work for this marriage / family or if it's better to get a divorce. In my opinion as well I think that this man doesn't love his wife enough anymore. I'm not saying she doesn't share her part of responsibility, but the result remains the same. He doesn't seem willing to make sacrifices and work to save his marriage. When a part of a couple starts accusing the other part that everything is the other person's fault and they stop acting like they are in the same team, this is a huge sign that this part has quit trying for the relationship.

[EyesOpen]

I married him because I saw what I wanted to see and missed the red flags. I loved him and still do. There were times I actually felt loved by him and times I believed he cared.

 

It is very hard to look at my situation as a person who has given 110% and accept failure of the relationship. I understand I can't make it work with someone who doesn't want to be here and I will mourn the loss of what I thought it would be.

 

I expect this is normal but I went from feeling peaceful and confident to feeling afraid and vulnerable yesterday. The positive side is that my children seem to be doing somewhat better although I know they will probably go through the same ups and downs I'm feeling. I know they just want to know what to expect. They want to know if we are selling the house or staying here, if Dad is coming back, etc. I want to give the the security of knowing the answers to all of these questions but I simply do not have them yet. I did tell them that no matter what, we stay married or not, no matter where we live, we are still,a family and we will continue to behave as such because that has not changes. I assured them that I am not going anywhere and that they are loved, wanted, and cherished. I wish I could take their fear and pain away, this is one of the most difficult parts of this whole mess.

 

He called to ask if he could stop by and pick up a couple of things. I told him I was busy doing things around the house and it wasn't a good day for it. I will be running some errands today and told him I would let him know when that time is so he can stop by when we are not here.

 

On a side note, he mentioned he talked to his uncle about the situation and his uncle advised him to get divorced. His uncle has been divorced twice, such an easy answer.

 

If there is no love I understand not fighting for this. I have told him many times that love is a choice, that marriages have stages, that sometimes you feel more in love and sometimes not so much but it takes work and some underlying love of the other person. It hurts to know that it's possible that this whole time I've been fighting for this he has been looking elsewhere.

 

I'm not sure why this surprises me. He has said in the past that the marriage wasn't a priority. Raising the kids well and being successful at work were priorities and once the kids were grown, then he would worry about the marriage. I argued so many times that the best thing we can do for the kids is have a stable loving marriage and that takes time and desire.

 

I feel silly writing this and realizing his thoughts and actions aren't loving and things have been this way for a long time.

Edited May 24, 2014 by EyesOpen

[BetrayedH]

I think you very much have your head on straight here, even if you feel like you're losing it. I hear a lot of wisdom in your words.

 

As for the kids, what worked best for me was assuring them that no matter what, they would always have their Mom and they would always have their Dad. Assure them that they'd regularly see both of you but sometimes it's best to have the kids raised in two separate happy households than in one unhappy one. Keep them out of the blame game as much as possible.

 

While you two are in limbo, it's going to be virtually impossible to quell their anxiety. That's just the reality. There's instability, uncertainty, and they have no control over any of it. What I realized is that the kids just need to know what's going to happen so that they can begin to come to grips with it. Things got immeasurably better for my kids once we had decided to divorce and had a plan. The kids need to hear that the adults have got this, that they'll have regular access to both parents, some idea of how it's going to happen, and then they can get back to their video games and homework. Obviously, it's going to take some time for you two to decide what you're going to do but they will still recover and they'll do better if you keep them out of the mud.

 

I think you really need to get some details set for when he can come get his things and when he can have custody of the kids. They are his kids and the house is his just as much his at it is yours. He's done you a courtesy by leaving. Bend over backwards to figure out logistics or he's going to stop being courteous and for good reason.

[EyesOpen]

I completely agree. I gave him two different options for stopping by to pick things up. We also agreed that he would pick up the kids on Monday and spend the day with them. I am doing my best to do what's right and fair.

 

His mother is coming today to spend time with the kids and I am fine with that. I am trying to figure out how yo use my free time wisely. I am always with the kids do I know it will be challenging and will probably cause me some anxiety.

 

I feel slightly better today. I have read around other posts and I don't want to be the pitiful wife. I am doing my best to continue with my routine and keep my head high. Not an easy task.

[oldshirt]

Thank you so much for all of the replies, advice, and perspectives. This has helped me so much to be stronger and stand my ground.

 

I called him to tell him i needed 2-3 weeks to evaluate the situation and decide what is right for me. I arrived home to find his car in the driveway. He came home to get more clothes since he didn't anticipate being away for more than a few days. I told him he was not allowed to show up unannounced. I told him he needs to respect my space and privacy. He seemed very surprised and quickly got into his car and left.

 

He later called to ask why the change of heart from wanting to keep the family together to needing more time. I told him I needed to think things through and decide what I will and will not accept for my life. I told him I was aware of what I deserve and am not willing to settle for less. I was calm, direct, and unemotional which really threw him off. He then asked about seeing the kids on the weekend. I said sure, no problem. I will spend time with them on Sunday and you can see them Monday. I asked him to let me know when he would arrive and I would have the kids ready (quick exchange, no lengthy discussion or need for him to come in). I quickly got off the phone after this.

 

I have an appointment with a lawyer on Tuesday. I plan on using the next few weeks on researching and learning my options. I may have the lawyer draft the papers in case I decide to pursue this direction. I want to be ready.

 

We will see what the next few weeks bring. I feel very peaceful and confident today, finally.

 

 

 

I'd say that is pretty much spot-on. If there was a way for you to have addressed that better, I am at a loss as to how.

 

 

Sounds like you are getting a grip on the situation and what you have to do for your own well-being.

 

 

I'd say draw up two sets of papers. One is for as fair, amicable and painless divorce as humanly possible.

 

 

And the other is a list of what you would need and expect and be willing to do for a healthy, happy, full-service marriage.

 

 

If deep down you'd prefer the happy marriage, give him the happy marriage list first and offer that as Option-A.

 

 

If he is unwilling or unable to fulfill that list, then hand him the divorce papers as Option-B.

 

 

What I think your husband has been doing has been making you settle for some kind of unhappy, dysfunctional hybrid of a life that is married on paper but disconnected and dysfunctional but still restricted to the bounds of a marriage but one that is not the least bit fulfilling and healthy. I don't think that is fair or should be tolerated by anyone.

 

 

I think drawing a line in the sand and saying "All-in or all-out" is perfectly reasonable. Either he chooses to go all-in and does whatever work and effort is needed for a decent marriage or he chooses all-out and you both agree to a fair, reasonable and amicable divorce and you both do your best to coparent from separate homes and lead your own separate life.

[beach]

I think you're doing great too!

 

You basically showed him that he's not in charge, which is a good shift in power.

 

Old shirt has some good ideas and it would be wise to have a plan and stick to it.

 

It also puts the action and session into your H as to whether or not to have a great marriage or end it. Put everything YOU need from him on that list!

 

Good thoughts for a positive outcome! Keep posting.

 

 

If you have free time and don't know what to do - get a pedicure or see a movie to treat yourself!

Edited May 24, 2014 by beach

[EyesOpen]

Wow, I can't believe this was two years ago. Reading this thread made me realize nothing really changed. We actually got,back together and he really committed to work on our marriage. I remember feeling great at that time and really believing that things were finally going to change.

 

2 year update:

 

Things didn't really change. We attended therapy a year ago which only lasted 2 months. Our therapist believes he has narcissistic personality disorder. He has since moved on to four different therapists in the last year because he never hears what,he wants to hear I guess.

 

Two months ago he told me he wants a divorce. He just doesn't feel he can ever connect with me because he doesn't trust me over the email/journal issue. I was initially shocked and devastated, cried a LOT, and the regained my composure. This still hurts but I refuse to beg or talk or ask about anything. We are beginning the mediation process and will go from there.

 

We are currently still in the same house and it becomes so confusing at times. There have been times in the middle of,the night when he wants to be intimate with me, at least once a week. I say no and I tell him I don't understand why he is trying to do this if he wants a divorce. His response is that feelings don't just go,away, he still cares about me. I tell him this has to stop but it will happen again the following week.

 

His actions scream narcissism now that I've done my research. The game was rigged. I was never meant to win, he would,always find a reason as to why I wasn't good enough or why he couldn't connect with me, but was quick to use me to fill his bucket. I realize I have been walkin on eggshells for 12 years. The relief I feel about not caring what he thinks of me is quite freeing.

 

The hard part for me will be not seeing my kids every day. They are my world.

[BetrayedH]

I would say, welcome back, but I suppose it'd be nice if it were under better circumstances.

 

For what it's worth, I think my relationship with my kids is better now that I'm divorced. The time spent with them is more quality time. And I'm still around (even if it's by text) on days that I don't have them. I think you'll find yourself doing a better job of planning for your days with them. And you'll find that not having them (or your husband) for a few days can be recuperative.

 

I do miss my kids, although our arrangement is just a 3-4 days at a time, but I think absence makes the heart grow fonder on both sides.

 

Be a good and stable parent for them and they'll be fine. If your STBX does the same, they'll be great.