Argued with my girlfriend about splitting rent

May 15, 2014

So, she's currently paying $1K per month and the apartment rent is $2K per month, correct? Your living together proposal would apparently lower the combined rent to $1.1K, which includes some utilities, and her rental outlay would decrease from 1K to 300, a decrease of 70%. Your rental outlay would decrease by 20%, or perhaps more, depending on what utilities are included and how they compare to your current situation.

I'm running through this because my exW handled such matters like a businessperson and she taught me a lot about women and the business of marriage.

If we were to exclude utilities and look strictly at rent, and presume your utilities included in rent are equal to hers paid outside of rent, that would mean that your rent, under her proposal, would be roughly 650 per month and hers would be 300, for you a reduction of 350 from 1K and for her a reduction of 700 from 1K currently paid.

My compromise would be to accept the rental terms and negotiate her paying for groceries, with eating out being by mutual agreement. This would prevent her from leaving the larder bare and suggesting eating out all the time. She could of course do that, and pay for it.

Oh, and the security deposit shall be split 50/50, since that's not an expense. She'll get back, if she hasn't trashed the existing domicile, likely more than the 50% share on the new place so it'll be a wash or good to her side of the ledger.

When is her lease up? If moving prior, is her landlord/fellow tenant willing to release her from that lease and cash her out?

As a reminder, and check your lease for the details, you can be jointly and severably liable for rent payments. All my leases are written this way so multiple tenants can't weasel their way out of paying rent by stating a roommate/partner/spouse didn't pay their share. What people say and what they do can often be very different things!

If you're 'arguing' about this stuff, that's a very good sign that it's not yet time to live together.

May 15, 2014

Damn, I think this thread has been going on so long you guys are forgetting an important point:

My girlfriend of 3 months

**** that noise. OP needs to grow a spine.

Edit: Next she'll be forcing him to marry her.

Edited May 15, 2014 by Potz4prez

May 15, 2014

I'm running through this because my exW handled such matters like a businessperson and she taught me a lot about women and the business of marriage.

Well this isn't a marriage or a union that is established enough to be having these types of conversations. Moving in three months into dating isn't smart.

May 15, 2014

Well this isn't a marriage or a union that is established enough to be having these types of conversations. Moving in three months into dating isn't smart.

In a prior post, I wrote:

"Personally, I see no rush to live together. Big step, take your time, feel positive about it. Still some details to work out. Good luck!"

So, yep!

May 15, 2014

Hi ladies and gents. This is my first time posting a thread on this website, so bear with me if I'm not following any protocols. My girlfriend of 3 months and I got into an argument after we discussed how we would split the rent if we moved in together.

On the phone, she was the first to propose that she pay just 1/3 of the total rent, while I, the guy, pay 2/3 of the total rent. Considering that we both earn the same income, I was just taken by surprise that she didn't propose a 50-50 split. But after she said she would pay just 1/3 of the rent, I told her I was worried that she might be taking advantage of me. I didn't care about the money. After I said that, she told me she was upset and hurt that I wasn't invested enough in the relationship to overlook that difference. Then, I apologized to her and told her I'd pay whatever amount she proposed. But now, she is still struggling to get over the fact that I would even argue with her about paying more rent, since I am the man and she is the lady.

Can you guys please give me your honest unbiased opinion? Am I wrong for questioning why she should pay just 1/3 of the rent even though we earn the same income? Or is she being a little unreasonable, especially since I was willing to apologize and give in to what she proposed?

:/

Honestly, after only being with her for 3 months, talking about moving in together and paying rent in a 'what if' senario is kind of pointless.

Anyway, since you did post about it, you both make the same amount of money so the rent should be equal, or if you end up paying more for rent, she should pay for groceries and smaller items for the house.

May 15, 2014

Thanks guys for the feedback. Much appreciated.

For those of you asking what the actual rent breakdown would be, I would pay $800 flat, which includes utilities. And she would pay $300 for rent and $150 for utilities and cable, so her monthly total would be around $450, depending on utilities. That is how she proposed to split the rent.

We currently are financially stable living in our own apartments. We each pay around $1k/mo give or take for our own apartments.

First of all, if you're together after a year, then move in.

Second, 50/50. None of this you should pay more rent because you're the man. Ef that if your incomes and general expenses are the same. DON'T let her guilt you in to this. Stand up for yourself. Her being from China is pointless here.

May 15, 2014

Don't even think about moving together until you have a serious long term commitment, and on your path to marriage eventually. Breaking up is REALLY hard after moving in together. I have experienced it via divorce and a serious relationship afterwards. Really messy.

As for the rent, there is no reason why you have to pay more unless she has a lot of financial burdens that she hopes you can give her a break on. But still, requiring you to pay more isn't right. You can volunteer to pay more, but being forced really sucks.

This is a major red flag. Looks like she expects you to support her eventually. This is how it started with my ex-GF. Really bad news.

May 15, 2014

Just dump her, get an American girl who will understand the 50/50 rule and be happy!

May 15, 2014

The over-riding issue at hand for the OP isn't whether it's too early to move in or not. I think most would agree that it is, but to each his own.

Your current status, only 3-months dating, DATING, based on equivalent income, warrants 50/50 share of expenses.

BUT, perhaps this issue will clear his mind to the moving-in business and he rethinks things.

May 15, 2014

Back on that side of the world, women are almost groomed into submissiveness for lack of education, lack of independence, lack of a voice, lack of earning power/capability -- abiding by the stereotype that men are providers and women are homemakers.

That mentality has to change on her part. This isn't China.

I don't agree that the mentality has to change. It's a free country, after all. She's being very clear and up front about what she expects, which is a good thing. She's making her preferences about financial responsibilities very clear.

It's not hard to find men who will provide 100%, and even prefer that arrangement. Most of the men I've had relationships with strongly preferred something close to this, and this goes way back to how they were raised and how the relationship between their parents was structured. So this woman can easily find a man agreeable to her terms. But if these two are serious, they'll find a middle ground they can both be happy with. You just have to find that middle ground.

Given that she grew up in China, is this the first cultural difference you've encountered with her? I don't know a lot about Chinese culture, but I know from friends from nearby areas that those societies are very traditional in terms of gender roles. Until a woman is ready to marry, her father and brothers provide for her and protect her. Once she marries, the man earns the money and provides for the family. The woman (sometimes with the assistance of servants, if they can afford it) takes care of the children and household, cooks, cleans, and grocery shops. If she becomes widowed (usually the only reason for a marriage to end in very traditional societies), she goes back to her father and brothers' care. Only if she meets another husband does she move into his care. And when the man gets old and feeble, his wife, daughters, and extended family are around to take care of him.

Both traditional and modern societies have their pros and cons. Neither is all right or all wrong. If you're going to have a serious relationship with someone from a very different culture, I think it's only fair to respect your differences and strive toward a middle ground.

Edited May 15, 2014 by Ruby Slippers

May 15, 2014

Alright... The whole thing with moving in after only three months of dating... That right there gives off the vibes of desperation also known as, "PLEASE COMPLETE ME!"

Does anyone else have that impression?

I see other people behave desperately all the time. There's a certain air to those who feel desperate. I know that other men and women can spot desperation immediately when dating. Desperation is what freaks us relatively healthy people out.

There's only one sort of person who find themselves drawn in to somebody who is desperate. Those people are all the users who seek out vulnerability like a heat seeking missile. It only takes a minute to size a person up and figure out if they're easily made to feel bad for expressing their concerns.

I realize that what I say is presumptuous and unfair. What I've said is entirely based off of intuition and a vibe. But I still believe that learning to advocate for yourself without feeling like garbage is an insanely important skill to learn. If somebody cannot advocate for themselves, believes as though they need to reluctantly do uncomfortable things to earn a relationship, then they're being used.

Edited May 15, 2014 by ThatMan

May 15, 2014

Alright... The whole thing with moving in after only three months of dating... That right there gives off the vibes of desperation also known as, "PLEASE COMPLETE ME!"

Does anyone else have that impression?

I see other people behave desperately all the time. There's a certain air to those who feel desperate. I know that other men and women can spot desperation immediately when dating. Desperation is what freaks us relatively healthy people out.

Several of us have mentioned that 3 months is too soon to be talking about moving in together.

I don't think OP mentioned whose idea it was. If he did, I missed it. Was it her idea?

May 15, 2014

Although this woman is living in the US now, I am not sure it is so easy to toss aside her cultural upbringing. If I moved to China tomorrow I am sure I would still hold on to my American ways for quite some time and might make some cultural errors in the process of making friends and establishing relationships.

Assuming it is culture and not greed behind her suggestion of the 1/3-2/3 split, then this is something for them to discuss when the time is right... which ideally will be when they have been dating for more than 3 months!

May 15, 2014

OP, re-reading your original post, I'll add another suggestion. You wrote:

"But after she said she would pay just 1/3 of the rent, I told her I was worried that she might be taking advantage of me."

And then:

"After I said that, she told me she was upset and hurt that I wasn't invested enough in the relationship to overlook that difference."

And then:

"Then, I apologized to her and told her I'd pay whatever amount she proposed."

My suggestion relates to this:

"On the phone,......xxxxx"

Relationship 101, conduct important relationship talks, like 'what ifs' regarding moving in together, in person, when both parties have the time and inclination to focus on the relationship and the team.

Now, having received some unbiased (your request) feedback, how do you feel about this situation?

May 15, 2014

Although this woman is living in the US now, I am not sure it is so easy to toss aside her cultural upbringing. If I moved to China tomorrow I am sure I would still hold on to my American ways for quite some time and might make some cultural errors in the process of making friends and establishing relationships.

Assuming it is culture and not greed behind her suggestion of the 1/3-2/3 split, then this is something for them to discuss when the time is right... which ideally will be when they have been dating for more than 3 months!

Actually, if you went to china, you'd probably end up dating an American-ized girl, and things would be peachy. You'd be surprised how much influence American culture has in Asia.

The fact that she's here for school means she's probably thoroughly american-ized. At this point, it's just a girl taking advantage of a guy.

May 15, 2014

Actually, if you went to china, you'd probably end up dating an American-ized girl, and things would be peachy. You'd be surprised how much influence American culture has in Asia.

Well, I am straight, so I don't date girls.

The fact that she's here for school means she's probably thoroughly american-ized. At this point, it's just a girl taking advantage of a guy.

We can agree to disagree. I lived in another culture for many years as a teen and I still struggled at times to understand all the nuances. In some cases, I simply rejected differences that didn't feel right to me. It's not so easy to shed what you've been brought up with.

It's up to the OP and his gf to determine if they can bridge their differences in a way that feels good to both of them.

May 15, 2014

What I don't understand is ok op created this thread after he had this talk with his girlfriend? Dating buddy? You've not actually called her your girlfriend even that I've noticed.

Surely there wouldn't be a point in having that conversation (now) if your intention wasn't to actually do it?

People say oh i would like to get married at say 30 and start making babies at 33 however they don't talk about the financial side of it because it's a while away.

May 15, 2014

What I don't understand is ok op created this thread after he had this talk with his girlfriend? Dating buddy? You've not actually called her your girlfriend even that I've noticed.

He refers to her as his girlfriend in his OP:

Hi ladies and gents. This is my first time posting a thread on this website, so bear with me if I'm not following any protocols. My girlfriend of 3 months and I got into an argument after we discussed how we would split the rent if we moved in together.

May 15, 2014

Well, I am straight, so I don't date girls.

We can agree to disagree. I lived in another culture for many years as a teen and I still struggled at times to understand all the nuances. In some cases, I simply rejected differences that didn't feel right to me. It's not so easy to shed what you've been brought up with.

It's up to the OP and his gf to determine if they can bridge their differences in a way that feels good to both of them.

Oh, haha. Then you'd be **** out of luck actually. Sorry :/

Yeah, it's easier to just ignore the little nuances It's easier to make a cultural flub and then apologize/laugh about it after than constantly worry about it. When you get down to what matters, we can all relate, no matter what culture you're from.

May 15, 2014

Although this woman is living in the US now, I am not sure it is so easy to toss aside her cultural upbringing. If I moved to China tomorrow I am sure I would still hold on to my American ways for quite some time and might make some cultural errors in the process of making friends and establishing relationships.

Assuming it is culture and not greed behind her suggestion of the 1/3-2/3 split, then this is something for them to discuss when the time is right... which ideally will be when they have been dating for more than 3 months!

I don't believe it was ever mentioned that her reasoning for doing this stems from her culture. A jump to conclusions on my part I must say. Of course, when you move to another country, you have to learn to adapt and with that said, if she has been living on her own, having being independent, earning income and being solely able to support herself financially, then it does seem that she has released herself from some of her restrictive cultural norms and therefore should be able to progress and adapt to this situation.

May 15, 2014

I don't believe it was ever mentioned that her reasoning for doing this stems from her culture. A jump to conclusions on my part I must say. Of course, when you move to another country, you have to learn to adapt and with that said, if she has been living on her own, having being independent, earning income and being solely able to support herself financially, then it does seem that she has released herself from some of her restrictive cultural norms and therefore should be able to progress and adapt to this situation.

I have no idea if her request was based on culture, nor how long she's been in the US, or really anything much about their relationship, which is why I said Assuming it is culture and not greed... Could be either one or eve something else that the OP has not shared.

I still believe the over-arching issue is that 3 months of dating is not long enough to contemplate living together. Presumably, if they are having difficulty finding common ground on the matter of rent, there are other issues that will rear their head once they are living together. My advice is to get to know each other more from the safety of their respective apartments and make a decision to join households only when the relationship has withstood the test of time.

May 15, 2014

He refers to her as his girlfriend in his OP:

Haha I guess he did. My bad

May 15, 2014

3 months is way way wayyyyy too soon. I'm not even in love with someone after only 3 months that is crazy

May 15, 2014

Some girls DO view being cared for financially as a way a man shows love, and it doesn't necessarily mean she is a gold digger.

BUT - there are other ways to come up with an equal relationship where both partners are giving themselves to the relationship.

Maybe he pays all the rent, and she pays utilities and buys groceries (which is a more domestic, traditionally feminine-feeling expenditure) and puts some money into joint savings to the point where it is equal. Or maybe part of her contribution is through housework and cooking. Or maybe you pool all the money into a joint account, give each of you an "allowance" out of the pool to spend on what you want, and just pay the bills out of the account.

There is a way to resolve this. If you look past what she is asking to what her INTENTION is (wanting to feel taken care of), you can find a compromise that makes her feel loved without leaving you feeling taken advantage of.

May 15, 2014

3 months is way way wayyyyy too soon. I'm not even in love with someone after only 3 months that is crazy

It appears we may be inferring they were talking about literally moving in together after three months of dating when in fact they were floating a hypothetical, or trial, balloon about one potential way that could go if and when they moved in together.

To wit:

"My girlfriend of 3 months and I got into an argument after we discussed how we would split the rent if we moved in together. "

There was no mention, apparently from either side that I could discern, that moving in was eminent. Yet I, as apparently others, jumped to the conclusion that they were talking about moving in together.

I recall, back when I was dating the lady who would become my wife, after a similar period of time where we noted things were 'serious', we began to have similar discussions and, yep, disagreements, about finances and apportionment and similar issues, even though we both knew we wouldn't be living together until we were married. Still, we were feeling out each other's perspectives and how we would work as a team, even at that early stage.

Perhaps the OP can clarify that aspect further. He does, to a certain degree, with this statement:

"Regardless, I am definitely not moving in with her at this point. I'm going to have a talk with her."

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Argued with my girlfriend about splitting rent

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