He wants to eat at a place where waitresses are scantily dressed, I don't.

[JZH]

Just having a little break from work and need to get back soon, so I don't have time to read most of the comments, so apologies if I'm repeating anybody.

 

But as I've read some comments that have pretty much said 'what's your problem? You're just insecure!' I just feel the need to give my opinion on these kinds of places, so here it is...

 

It is normal for a woman to feel uncomfortable if they are witnessing other women being degraded. I have a hard time dealing with the fact that we as a society seem to be promoting the normalization of this kind of degradation, too. Women are parading themselves as objects to be ogled. Now yes, the argument stands that they are getting paid for this and no one is forcing them into it. They may even really enjoy it. But, where does that leave the rest of us?

 

It seems to be that if a girl does not like the idea of Hooters type places, she is deemed to be either insecure or jealous by some men (and women!). But here's a question - if there was a Hooters style restaurant, exactly the same, except instead of scantily-clad women parading around, you have half naked men, do you think men would be expected to attend this kind of place and be just fine with it? Or be fine with their girlfriend going?

Edited May 15, 2014 by JZH

[Chocolat]

But here's a question - if there was a Hooters style restaurant, exactly the same, except instead of scantily-clad women parading around, you have half naked men, do you think men would be expected to attend this kind of place and be just fine with it? Or be fine with their girlfriend going?

 

LOL, I asked this very question several pages ago. Ironically, none of the people crying "insecurity" responded.

 

One of the problems with this sort of role reversal is that, in general (and yes, I acknowledge that exceptions exist), women don't really care about looking at guys junk while they are eating. And men know this.

[Haydn]

I couldn`t enjoy my starter with a huge pair of `Bristol`s` swinging into view.

[JamesM]

LOL, I asked this very question several pages ago. Ironically, none of the people crying "insecurity" responded.

 

One of the problems with this sort of role reversal is that, in general (and yes, I acknowledge that exceptions exist), women don't really care about looking at guys junk while they are eating. And men know this.

 

And most men do not want to be in a restaurant/place where scantily dressed men are because most of the BFs and husbands would find themselves much less fit and with less hair and possibly alot older. Imagine your gf comparing your balding head and semi-pregnant belly to a young dark haired, flat bellied male who has a full head of thick wavy hair? So why would any woman want to sit at a meal with her BF/husband while she is compared to a woman who was chosen for her looks and not necessarily her beautiful personality or awesome skills?

 

This is not about insecurity. It is about respect. (And I banged the period at the end of that sentence! )

 

It goes along with the idea that men cannot understand why women don't just lust after women and want lesbian sex....while the same men find sex with other men simply disgusting.

 

Weird.

[serial muse]

She has yet to explain her issues with why she doesn't want to though.

 

No, she has, though. And she also said that she had a conversation with the current guy about her exH's penchant for strip clubs and why that's an issue for her too. So he knows where she's coming from.

 

But she is insecure. Go read her posts. This guy never misbehaved in front of her, that is from her own mouth. Yet she ASSUMES he will anyways. That has zero to do with boundaries and everything to do with insecurity.

 

Not quite right...she also said he did make comments about other women in front of her, and she expressed discomfort with it to him. So he knows that too.

 

When one is not insecure, they do not not assume their partner will behave in a certain way while also admitting they have never actually given them a reason to believe they will behave that way. She said he never misbehaved.

 

Again, see above. Also, see below:

 

I remember once, I told him that I thought a coworker was crushing on me, and he got really upset with me.

 

So, yeah. This guy knows what time it is. He's being disingenuous about her discomfort.

 

You'd have a point if she didn't say things like she is sure he will flirt, etc. in front of her and then later saying he has never actually done this in front of her. There is no way that has nothing to do with insecurity. That has nothing to do with boundaries.

 

Er.

 

He has looked at other women, commented that she's attractive, and has chatted with waitresses at other restaurants, joking/laughing. Of course, I'm not the last woman on earth and I know there are other women out there that I'm sure he finds attractive besides me. And I know he will look no matter where we are, no matter what those women look like or wear. But I feel its incredibly disrespectful to do it blatantly and obviously in front of your s/o, and comment about those other women. Just do it with your buddies. Not in front of me.

 

 

He isn't pressuring her though, read what she wrote again. She politely told him she didn't want to go. She said he asked her why and was disappointed she didn't want to go. That is it. So..how is that pressuring her? Why wouldn't he wonder why she doesn't want to go? That doesn't mean he is pressuring her, that is called being curious why his girlfriend doesn't want to go there with him. His being disappointed also isn't a sign of his pressuring her.

 

Yes, you're right there. Her original question was what to do if he asks again. Hopefully he won't.

 

Bottom line remains the same: Her decision not to go is perfectly reasonable, and this guy knows perfectly well why she doesn't want to, too. If he's smart, he'll drop it while he's ahead.

[pteromom]

You can see within this thread that people have very differing opinions about it. Some find it no big deal. Some find it disgusting and disrespectful.

 

You and your bf have very different values when it comes to this, just like the people in this thread.

 

You have responded to him correctly. You have told him you have no issue with HIM going, but YOU do not want to go.

 

So now it is on him what he does and how he handles himself.

 

However -you have a bigger issue to think about, and that is the fact that you DO have different values on this subject. If you move forward in the relationship, you have to do so understanding that he isn't like you and doesn't see things the same way. He doesn't believe that going to a restaurant like this is disrespectful to you, so you need to accept his point of view.

 

If you do not respect his viewpoint to the point where you look down on him for it or worry about similar issues coming up again, you should rethink whether you are compatible and whether you should be in this relationship at all.

[Chocolat]

Irrelevant, the OP has admitted she is insecure, so your question doesn't even matter.

 

Nice dodge.

[JamesM]

Is it not true though? Does the answer matter when the OP herself has admitted that yes part of this was from insecurity?

 

And did she not admit this may be part of it AFTER she was told she was insecure?

 

And would not many men and women feel insecure about the feelings of their partner when listening to him or her compliment those perfect bodies?

 

And would not someone who loved another want to express compliments to the one he or she loved rather than about complete strangers simply because said comments are driven by lust and not true love?

 

Most of us or even all of us have insecurities about our bodies. What is missing here is the respect of her bf to her. I think we would all rather have a partner who loved us completely and respected our feelings even if they are driven by insecurities.

[beyondcrushed]

No, she has, though. And she also said that she had a conversation with the current guy about her exH's penchant for strip clubs and why that's an issue for her too. So he knows where she's coming from.

 

 

 

Not quite right...she also said he did make comments about other women in front of her, and she expressed discomfort with it to him. So he knows that too.

 

 

 

Again, see above. Also, see below:

 

 

 

So, yeah. This guy knows what time it is. He's being disingenuous about her discomfort.

 

 

 

Er.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, you're right there. Her original question was what to do if he asks again. Hopefully he won't.

 

Bottom line remains the same: Her decision not to go is perfectly reasonable, and this guy knows perfectly well why she doesn't want to, too. If he's smart, he'll drop it while he's ahead.

 

Thank you. Exactly on the money with your comments.

[serial muse]

Irrelevant, the OP has admitted she is insecure, so your question doesn't even matter.

 

 

 

She also said he never misbehaved in front of her, so..which is it then? It can't be both. Why is she saying he never misbehaved if he has? Makes zero sense. That needs to be addressed, because she is telling us two different things now. He either has misbehaved or he hasn't.

 

Also, umm..you do realize the OP herself admitted she is insecure, right? Why is that being ignored? It doesn't matter what you or I think since she has admitted to it.

 

As I pointed out earlier, what exactly is "misbehaved"? Touching? Flirting? It's not exactly a clear-cut word. I might feel that my partner is misbehaving in front of me if he's flirting with another woman, but others might say that it's all in good fun and I'm being insecure. And then I might internalize that and back-track, because being called insecure sucks and is a way to shut people up.

 

Yes, she said it herself. I'm not ignoring that. I'm saying that if people say it to you you start to wonder. But I think it's supremely unhelpful and also a red herring here.

 

It also doesn't matter what you and I think about whether she "should" go to this restaurant, whether to prove something to her BF, or to us, or to demonstrate she's not insecure, or to howl at the moon. Because she. doesn't. want. to.

Edited May 16, 2014 by serial muse

[beyondcrushed]

Irrelevant, the OP has admitted she is insecure, so your question doesn't even matter.

 

 

 

She also said he never misbehaved in front of her, so..which is it then? It can't be both. Why is she saying he never misbehaved if he has? Makes zero sense. That needs to be addressed, because she is telling us two different things now. He either has misbehaved or he hasn't.

 

Also, umm..you do realize the OP herself admitted she is insecure, right? Why is that being ignored? It doesn't matter what you or I think since she has admitted to it.

 

Overall regarding stip clubs, hooters and HAG, I am not exactly sure what makes me uncomfortable with going to these places. Yes, I have insecurities, as everyone does to some degree, but not sure how much plays into me not wanting to go. But I think for sure partly because the way women are dressed and objectified. And, the feeling of disrespect of me and our relationship. I don't know. It just makes me feel very uncomfortable.

 

Let me clarify what I mean by "misbehave". My bf has commented about actresses and women we've seen in everyday life (restaurants, work, walking on the sidewalk, etc) who he finds attractive. The comments include "Whoa!", "Hello there!", "She's attractive". When we go eat at restaurants he chats the waitresses up sometimes, and is friendly (jokes around with them). At places he frequents, he has become friends with some of the wait staff/bartenders (male and female alike) and has taken their mobile numbers and communicates with them, due to common interests e.g. motorcycling. He has become friends with his kids' parents and spent time with the mothers during playdates chatting them up. A few weeks before we broke up, he started falling for one of the moms. But...he has never crossed a line and been inappropriate -- never misbehaved with any women as in: touching, sexual advances/comments/inuendo, flirting, one-on-one time, or even spending all his time/attention talking with them.

 

Him making "friends" with women so easily bothers me. Even when he is friendly and notices other women at places we go, it sometimes gets to me. It's likely my insecurities. And my insecurities feed my fear, my fear that he will become fast friends and continue a relationship that turns into more.

 

Ugh, I don't know if this helps explain things. Just trying to work this out and reflect on what I need to do if anything to be stronger.

 

But if I'm not comfortable going, now or ever, then he needs to respect that.

[beyondcrushed]

You can see within this thread that people have very differing opinions about it. Some find it no big deal. Some find it disgusting and disrespectful.

 

You and your bf have very different values when it comes to this, just like the people in this thread.

 

You have responded to him correctly. You have told him you have no issue with HIM going, but YOU do not want to go.

 

So now it is on him what he does and how he handles himself.

 

However -you have a bigger issue to think about, and that is the fact that you DO have different values on this subject. If you move forward in the relationship, you have to do so understanding that he isn't like you and doesn't see things the same way. He doesn't believe that going to a restaurant like this is disrespectful to you, so you need to accept his point of view.

 

If you do not respect his viewpoint to the point where you look down on him for it or worry about similar issues coming up again, you should rethink whether you are compatible and whether you should be in this relationship at all.

 

Very true. I am being cautious and wide eyed about who he is this time. And am looking and thinking about any differing values we may have. It will affect how we progress if at all. Thanks!

[beyondcrushed]

And did she not admit this may be part of it AFTER she was told she was insecure?

 

And would not many men and women feel insecure about the feelings of their partner when listening to him or her compliment those perfect bodies?

 

And would not someone who loved another want to express compliments to the one he or she loved rather than about complete strangers simply because said comments are driven by lust and not true love?

 

Most of us or even all of us have insecurities about our bodies. What is missing here is the respect of her bf to her. I think we would all rather have a partner who loved us completely and respected our feelings even if they are driven by insecurities.

 

Exactly, I want him to comment about me and how he finds me attractive and cares for me. And to respect me.

 

So far he hasn't asked again. So perhaps its clear to him my boundary. We'll see. We leave for AZ Sunday. I will report back...lol. Thanks all!!!!

[JamesM]

Let me clarify what I mean by "misbehave". My bf has commented about actresses and women we've seen in everyday life (restaurants, work, walking on the sidewalk, etc) who he finds attractive. The comments include "Whoa!", "Hello there!", "She's attractive".

 

Unless this is done within the conversation and shared with you knowing that you are interested, then this is not appropriate for a BF. I never make initial comments to my wife. I may say someone is attractive, but that is about all. SHE is the one who will make a comment about someone's dress or looks and then I give my opinion.

 

When we go eat at restaurants he chats the waitresses up sometimes, and is friendly (jokes around with them).

 

If he does this equally with male waiters and help, then it is okay. If he does this only with pretty females with that certain look in his eye (and you would know), then it is inappropriate and disrespectful.

 

At places he frequents, he has become friends with some of the wait staff/bartenders (male and female alike) and has taken their mobile numbers and communicates with them, due to common interests e.g. motorcycling.

 

Totally wrong for an attached guy to take down female numbers unless you approve IMO.

 

He has become friends with his kids' parents and spent time with the mothers during playdates chatting them up. A few weeks before we broke up, he started falling for one of the moms.

 

And you are sure nothing happened? Why did you break up and why are you back together?

 

But...he has never crossed a line and been inappropriate -- never misbehaved with any women as in: touching, sexual advances/comments/inuendo, flirting, one-on-one time, or even spending all his time/attention talking with them.

 

He has never done this in front of you either? It could be that he is simply friendly if he is equally friendly with men and women.

 

Him making "friends" with women so easily bothers me. Even when he is friendly and notices other women at places we go, it sometimes gets to me.

 

Making friends easily is different than making friends with women only. Either he is an outgoing guy and then there is really no issue, or he is "flirting" in the sense that he is friendly like an available guy. If he respects you while you are there and includes you in conversations, then there is not really a problem. If you feel excluded, then your insecurities may be justified.

 

It's likely my insecurities. And my insecurities feed my fear, my fear that he will become fast friends and continue a relationship that turns into more.

 

First off, why do you have these insecurities? Because of something in the past with him or someone else? has he ever cheated on your or someone else? Has someone cheated on you?

 

Ugh, I don't know if this helps explain things. Just trying to work this out and reflect on what I need to do if anything to be stronger.

 

Do you need to explain your feelings to him or can he simply respect them? Why does HE want to go and see scantily dressed women?

 

But if I'm not comfortable going, now or ever, then he needs to respect that.

 

Agree.

 

Question....

 

Is he an extrovert and you an introvert, or is he simply in your opinion, extra friendly with women only?

[123321]

The Heart Attack Grill is sort of world famous.

 

It's not a titty bar.

[beyondcrushed]

Unless this is done within the conversation and shared with you knowing that you are interested, then this is not appropriate for a BF. I may say someone is attractive, but that is about all.

 

It is done in conversation, e.g. We both notice a woman, or man, and he'll sometimes comment, "Check out what he/she's wearing, doing, whatever", "she's cute", "she has such n such a look". I usually provide a one word response, "yeah", "sort of", etc. and sometimes it launches us into a conversation about shoes, people, life, etc. So nothing crazy. But I never comment about looks or attractiveness unless he asks me.

 

If he does this equally with male waiters and help, then it is okay. If he does this only with pretty females with that certain look in his eye (and you would know), then it is inappropriate and disrespectful.

 

Yup, equally and no look in his eye, lol.

 

 

 

Totally wrong for an attached guy to take down female numbers unless you approve IMO.

 

I agree, but if they are just friends, should it bother me? And he takes guys phone numbers too.

 

 

 

And you are sure nothing happened? Why did you break up and why are you back together?

 

We were rebounds for each other. Lots of baggage. I was insecure and read too much into things. He was pulling away. Made me more insecure. I became needy. It was too much for both of us. We decided to break.

 

 

 

He has never done this in front of you either? It could be that he is simply friendly if he is equally friendly with men and women.

 

 

Making friends easily is different than making friends with women only. Either he is an outgoing guy and then there is really no issue, or he is "flirting" in the sense that he is friendly like an available guy. If he respects you while you are there and includes you in conversations, then there is not really a problem. If you feel excluded, then your insecurities may be justified.

 

Yes, he is friendly with both men and women. But for some reason I feel he gravitates towards women more so, perhaps its easier for him to be friendly with them. No male competition or ego to deal with. Or that most women hold jobs in the service industry. I don't know. But he never excludes me, and always respects me while I'm there.

 

On a weird note... he is friends with one of his employees. He helps fix her car for her, as she has no one here. Her bf and family live hours away. She has joined him and his kids on an outting one day, and he failed to mention she would be going (I know her well too). In a separate conversation with her, she told me she was joining them. Then after they went, I asked him how it was and that I knew she joined them. He acknowledged this and went on the tell me how she liked it and how she was with his kids. He acted like it was nothing, so I believe it was. But weird he wouldn't mention to me she was going. Makes me wonder why if it was innocent. Mind you, this was in the first couple weeks we were back together.

 

 

First off, why do you have these insecurities? Because of something in the past with him or someone else? has he ever cheated on your or someone else? Has someone cheated on you?

 

No cheating on each other. My exh cheated on me. And my bf started falling for that mother before we broke up. I think that's why I am fearful/insecure.

 

Do you need to explain your feelings to him or can he simply respect them? Why does HE want to go and see scantily dressed women?

 

He may want an explanation, which is ludicris cause he knows exactly why i.e. exh and strip clubs. But I think he will respect my wishes, but I think he will be disappointed, oh well.

 

 

 

 

Is he an extrovert and you an introvert, or is he simply in your opinion, extra friendly with women only?

 

We are both extroverts.

 

 

Bottomline is, I can't control or stop him from anything. He is gonna be himself and do what he's gonna do in front or behind me. Fears are often not based on reality. My fear or insecurity of him straying or disrespecting me or being inappropriate doesn't matter. It only matters IF and WHEN it happens. Until then, I will keep my boundaries, enjoy our time together, and observe who he is and his actions. Then go from there -- accept him or leave him.

Edited May 16, 2014 by beyondcrushed

[solway86]

I just wouldn't go to one of these places at all, the food tends to be average, and well... it's less about the food, and is, just... not good.

It's not really my sort of thing, and I'd never go to one of these anyway.

 

Thankfully we don't have many of these type of establishments here in the UK! Well, apart from 1 in the Midlands, but that's about it, really.

 

Still, either way, I'd suggest you say something to your partner like "Is it REALLY worth going to this place, the food's average there.... it's not like you're going for the food anyway, is it?"

 

As for a gender-reversed version of it with shirtless men, well, it probably wouldn't be as much of a commercial success, really.

Edited May 16, 2014 by solway86

[MalachiX]

What is the reason why, though, if not insecurity? I think you are being a little silly. Hooter's has great wings!

 

Ok, that's it.

 

I'm taking a stand against this.

 

I'm a 30 year-old hetero-sexual male and I'm telling you that I'm sick of hearing that Hooters has great wings. IT DOES NOT!

 

Hooters has mediocre wings! For the last decade I've been dragged to Hooters by male friends under the pretense, "they have great wings." This is a dirty horrible lie. You want good wings, go to Outback or Buffalo Wild Wings. You want boobs, then go to Hooters.

 

The whole wing thing is just a shameless excuse that men give because we wanna see boobs. It's part of this strange social contract we seem to have where we can't admit elements of our sexuality so we have to hide behind things like buffalo wings.

 

Personally, I don't get why we can't just go to a good place with actual good wings and then pick up a Playboy on the way home. I like boobs as much as the next guy but I don't see why I have to compromise my culinary experience to see someone in a tight shirt.

 

I know some of you may thing this isn't a big deal but you're wrong:

 

-Recent studies indicate that every year up to three million men eat mediocre wings in an attempt to see some boobs.

 

-Even worse, more and more children are being taken to Hooters and told the wings are good just so their Dads can see some boobs. The psychological impact results in these children being unable to tell the difference between good and mediocre wings by the time they reach the age of 15 (as well as some really disturbing wet dreams involving buffalo).

 

Now is the time to take a stand against mediocre Hooters wings before it's too late. Please, think of the children.

 

To learn more, please visit the National Council for Ending Mediocre Wings.

[TigerLilly78]

Yeah I googled it its more a gimmick then anything else sex sells that's a fact I prob wouldn't feel comfortable going there. But then again I like my dining experience's to be more relaxed if I want to be "entertained" with my meal ill go to a amusement part.

 

 

If a bf asked me to go ide kind of grin and bear it once then once he had blown it out of his system "hopefully" that would be it. I didn't know wither to laugh or what at the people getting spanked in the surgical gowns meh..lol

[TigerLilly78]

Ok, that's it.

 

I'm taking a stand against this.

 

I'm a 30 year-old hetero-sexual male and I'm telling you that I'm sick of hearing that Hooters has great wings. IT DOES NOT!

 

Hooters has mediocre wings! .

 

 

Blasphemy!

How dare you that's it your voted out of the club house please collect your baseball cards and leave your playboys at the door! lmao

[jbelle6]

Perhaps I should open a fine dining establishment myself. I will hire only well endowed males and have them wear tank tops with roosters on them and banana hammocks, I shall name it Cocks.

 

Invite your guys and see how receptive they are to eating with schlongs in their faces. Don't forget to tell them you're only going for the wings!

[GorillaTheater]

Blasphemy!

How dare you that's it your voted out of the club house please collect your baseball cards and leave your playboys at the door! lmao

 

I'm with Malachi. I'm in a college town with some GREAT wings joints, and Hooters doesn't compare.

 

If I want to see boobs, I'll go the beach and bring my own food.

[JamesM]

Perhaps I should open a fine dining establishment myself. I will hire only well endowed males and have them wear tank tops with roosters on them and banana hammocks, I shall name it Cocks.

 

Invite your guys and see how receptive they are to eating with schlongs in their faces. Don't forget to tell them you're only going for the wings!

 

Interestingly, in Seattle they have bikini baristas in drive thru coffee places. They do excellent business...well, the women do. An entrepreneurial male tried to open one and for some reason, he doesn't have near the business!

[jbelle6]

Interestingly, in Seattle they have bikini baristas in drive thru coffee places. They do excellent business...well, the women do. An entrepreneurial male tried to open one and for some reason, he doesn't have near the business!

 

LOL, well you know they're all flocking there for the delicious coffee!!!

[thedj10show]

I'm with Malachi. I'm in a college town with some GREAT wings joints, and Hooters doesn't compare.

 

If I want to see boobs, I'll go the beach and bring my own food.

 

I feel like Malachi is still off by saying B-Dubs has good wings though. Their sauces are over-vinegary (new term!) and their hotter sauces just are hot, with no flavor profile. But I did grow up in upstate New York, so maybe I'm just blessed with mom-and-pop wing joints.

 

The thing I never get about Hooters or strip clubs or whatever is that you can't do anything with the merchandise. Can't touch, can't bring home. So great, you paid for crappy food and blue balls. Meanwhile your lady friend who actually (presumably) enjoys playing with your dongle is left out in the cold? Makes no sense to me...