How to know if a girl's two-timing?

[cshim]

This is admittedly my third post about the same girl in 4 days, but I'm really head over heels crazy about her. I'm doing everything I can to not act impulsive so you guys are my outlet for pouting/venting/acting-borderline-nuts

 

This first bit's kind of a rehash of my previous thread, but I really struck a chord with her and I was fairly certain the feelings were reciprocal. We had great talks, met more frequently, just a good vibe overall.

 

Then last week when I try to arrange a meeting with her for Saturday she takes two days to respond and later tries to reschedule twice for the same weekend, only to change her mind. I didn't end up meeting with her and haven't heard from her in three days.

 

The way I see things, there are four scenarios that could account for this:

 

1) She actually really doesn't care that much--possible since I can't objectively judge how she feels and I haven't probed that deep yet (she's kind of shy so I didn't want to come on too hard). But I think unlikely.

 

2) She got super busy and sucked at managing her schedule and communicating with me. Again possible, but if that's the case things should play out alright.

 

3) She got tired of waiting for me to do something and is pulling the plug. We've been hanging out for 3 months now, which I guess is quite a while. I have been acting kind of chicken**** though I've made my interest pretty clear and I'm definitely gonna make a move if I have the chance.

 

4) The scenario I'm most interested in and kind of related to #3: she's been seeing another guy on the side or someone else suddenly came onto her radar. I know she's goes drinking a lot with her college friends so it's possible someone could have come up through that channel.

 

If #4's the case then are there any signs that I should have picked up on or can pick up on? Do girls do this a lot? I honestly don't know that much about her social life aside from the fact she drinks with her friends and does seem to hang out with them fairly often.

 

And yeah, I know I'm obsessive but please offer any feedback you can. I'd be happy to clarify anything hazy. Would rather resort to you guys then put her off with neediness.

[halfcrazed_i]

I just went through your old posts. I'm assuming this is still about the Japanese girl?

 

I'm Asian (though not Japanese) and I've been bouncing around various Asian countries the past decade or so... I have a little bit of an idea how different the dating culture is over here compared to the Western world. And Japan? It's a completely different planet out of orbit.

 

I'm assuming that the girl is native Japanese (ie. no Western upbringing whatsoever). That in itself is already difficult because the Japanese aren't trained to show their emotions outwardly. Plus they are a very conservative society (especially in Tokyo, less so in other cities). I think that the problem here is largely cultural more than a simple Mars-Venus thing.

 

Here's my advice. Stop being subtle and be a lot more obvious. The Japanese don't get Western subtlety and expressions (again, unless they are widely exposed to it). If you like this girl -- tell her. Nicely, but firmly. Don't beat around the bush. If you want to hang out with her, tell her you want to take her out on a date. Being a foreigner in Japan, if you ever "offend" her because she's not used to straightforward people, believe me, you will be pardoned some might even find it adorable.

 

Here's the tricky part. Even if she's not interested, she might not say so -- and still carry on being polite and interested. Again, it's a cultural thing. She's not leading you on. They have problems saying no over there... It can be a good or bad thing though. I'll let you decide

 

Go with your guts in dealing with this girl. It's probably the best thing you can rely on.

 

Her acting aloof doesn't necessarily mean she's seeing someone else on the side. Maybe that's just how she really is. Don't read too much into her actions and reactions at this point. Lay out your cards on the table then talk to her. If you are still trying to be subtle, it might confuse her even more.

 

Let me know how it goes. Good luck

[cshim]

Thanks for the feedback! I'm actually a Japanese-American born in Japan, but I'm an all-American kid at heart. The subtlety drives me crazy.

 

The thing is, I've had success with girls here who've been more explicit in their interest. One even flat out asked me to be her boyfriend, which I think is quite rare here.

 

But you're right, if I want any sort of resolution I need to take the initiative. I just hope she responds to my texts...

[halfcrazed_i]

Heya! How goes it?

 

Any progress on your girl front?

 

Yeah I know. It's quite infuriating... I have some Japanese friends who can make life extra difficult because they just don't want to say what they want flat out. It's almost like pulling teeth to get their honest opinion sometimes.

 

I do hope it works out for you. How well do you know this girl, by the way?

 

I have a friend like you. He's Jap-American, grew up in California but went back to Japan of university. He likes to be with home grown Jap girls. But even though he speaks the same language fluently, he says that there's still a sort of cultural gap. Do you feel the same too?

[cshim]

I don't even speak the language well, not even close. Part of the reason why I moved back was to brush up on my Japanese. But regardless of my fluency, I don't think I'll ever completely catch on to many of the customs.

 

In fact, I'm completely turned off by most Japanese girls because the whole kawaii thing drives me nuts. I think they feel a lot of pressure to act immature because men find that cute. Gender relations here are totally ****ed up.

 

One of the reasons I'm attracted to this girl is she's less flashy and more down to earth. She does a good job of showcasing her beauty without indulging in typical sickly sweet Japanese youth fashion.

 

Admittedly, I don't know as much about her as I'd like. She's kind of like me in that she seems to keep her cards close to her chest (I guess that's my Japanese heritage acting up...). But we have similar passions and things just feel right. She's smart, friendly, and classy.

 

Anyways, she did finally get back to me today. I'll post her message below. For the sake of context, last time I contacted her was Saturday evening to pre-emptively call off a Sunday dinner that hadn't been finalized. I had the sense she didn't really want to meet that day so I encouraged her to spend the evening with her mother instead (it was Mother's Day).

 

But here's what she said:

 

Thanks for your consideration! I really appreciate it:) I gave her [her mother] some presents and had a relaxing time. How was your family time? Did you fight with your brother? Hope we can meet this week!)

 

I suggested meeting today after work but said she couldn't because she was in Yokohama (understandable) and suggested Thursday instead. I agreed to that and asked her if she was free during the weekend. Haven't heard from her after 6 hours...hopefully she doesn't take 2 days like last time. I'm really gunning for a weekend meeting as that would be ideal for a heart-to-heart.

 

Sorry for the super-long post...I do get carried away. But I do appreciate your interest in my case and would love to get your perspective again!

Edited May 13, 2014 by cshim

[halfcrazed_i]

Woohoo - a virtual high five from me! Looks like you've managed to move forward. I bet Thursday couldn't come soon enough, eh?

 

Just don't appear to be over eager though. I mean, I think it's cool that you want to "close" the weekend and all, but let her get through the Thursday one first. After all, you still want to keep that "air of mystery" right? *grin*

 

If she doesn't reply to you about the weekend, leave it be. Bring it up again on Thursday before you part ways. As a girl, I do appreciate it when guys I go out with do try to secure the next date before the current one ends... It shows a great deal of interest from the guy. Then again, it can be quite awkward if I don't ever want to see him again. But you know, I'll spare you the psycho-babble. I don't want you to freak out over nothing.

 

Are you both in Tokyo? Or somewhere else? Do you have to travel in order to see her?

 

Don't worry about the long posts. I'm always a sucker for a happily ever after story -- so I'm hoping you have one as well. Do get comfort that someone is rooting for you.

 

So... Looks like she's an interested party. I think you were stressing out over nothing, after all. It does, however, look like you guys have different ideas on response times. Haha! But hey better late than never

 

Oh and I totally agree with you on the kawaii thing. I can't stand it. But you know what's worse? That high pitched voice that they use thinking that it makes them more attractive. I mean, seriously. Its very hard to take a fully grown adult woman seriously when she wears a stuffed animal as a purse, have nuclear orange hair and more bows than Little Bo Beep could care for.

 

Oh... Not to mention the obsession about staying fair. I kid you not, I was in Bali two years ago and this Japanese couple went swimming wearing long pants, hoodies, sunglasses and floppy hats (like the hoodie wasn't enough?). I thought I was being Punk'd or something.

 

Anyway, toddles for now. Keep in touch and no fighting with your brother

[cshim]

Thanks! Yeah I really hope Thursday works out. But I'm actually in the news industry so I do get caught up with unexpected work fairly often Our kind of unofficial rule is we seriously practice language during weekday meetings (talking about news and things like that) and do more fun things during the weekend.

 

Like I may have mentioned before, she does hang out a lot with her old college friends on the weekends so my hope is by getting her early I can catch her before she's fully booked. Would you think I should still hold off until after meeting on Thursday? On the one hand, I definitely get you on coming across as over eager. On the other hand, I kind of want to express a strong interest to help get the point across. Thoughts?

 

Oh, and while we both work in Tokyo I live her and she lives in Yokohama (about 40 mins away by train). We work fairly close to each other but during the weekends we switch up between Tokyo and Yokohama though she comes to Tokyo more often. Public transportation here really is amazing so I don't think distance is a huge issue.

 

And I totally get you on the high-pitched voice. Japanese men find it cute but I find it weird, annoying, and unnatural. It's bad enough when teens and 20-somethings do it, but every now and then you'll here a woman in her 40s or 50s do it. Crazy, right?

 

The fair-skinned thing is also kind of weird but all Asians countries are like that and it's kind of related to historical socioeconomic norms. So that's a little more excusable I guess. Your Bali story sounds flat out nuts, though, but sadly within the realm of possibility.

 

Thanks again

[halfcrazed_i]

Haha, I think it's cute that she allows you to practice Japanese with her. It's good for you, if anything else.

 

I do understand why you'd like to lock down a weekend date with her ASAP. However, remember that she may want to work on a different pace as you. You don't want to overwhelm her, after all. So stick to the Thursday date, and try to see if she'd like to go out again over the weekend. If she can't, then ask her out for the following weekend. No harm, no foul.

 

Truth be told, if I'm newly dating a guy and I went out with him on Thursday, I would probably want to take some time to digest our time together before I went out with him again. But I would find it sweet that he'd like to see me again so soon. And honestly, I probably would pull out some tricks and decline, because I don't want him to think I'm readily available at such short notice (I know, I know... girls play games too). But admittedly, if it were Tom Hiddleston asking me out, I would give him my Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday and the rest of my life

 

Anyway, don't think too much about it. The girl seems to like you enough. Enjoy your date tomorrow Do you plan to have "the talk" with her already? Oh wait, you're waiting for the weekend to do that, right?

 

Speaking of public transportation in Japan, I was just moaning about it to my friend the other day. I was telling him that the subway interchanges in Tokyo can be quite deceiving -- especially when you're trying to go from one line to another. You'd look at the map and go "Oh, I can get down here and then change to this line." Peachy. Then you realize, it's actually a 4-kilometer walk from one line to another... and the next thing you know, you are so totally thrown out of your schedule. Haha! It's crazy. I'm convinced that the Atlantis exists underneath Japan. There's a whole new world built underground.

[cshim]

I get you. Perhaps I am putting too much pressure on her. The thing that worries me is that she'd agree to meet up with me on weekends without hesitation before. I'd contact her on Tuesdays and she'd agree on a meeting very quickly. We've been hanging out for 3 months; it's not like we just met.

 

But last week she took two days to respond and this time she still hasn't responded after a day. That's why I'm worried that some intervening catalyst has arisen (i.e. another guy came into the picture). I know the day after we last met she had an all night drinking/hangout marathon with a group of friends and I'm paranoid she made some special connection with another guy during that time...

 

Either way, I'll try to meet up with her on Thursday and maybe I can get some clarity. I'm not sure how nosy or inquisitive I should be though, assuming I haven't put her off with my aggressive posture...

[halfcrazed_i]

Okay, dude... I think at this point you just need to chill. Go out tonight and knock back a few. And try not to message her until tomorrow.

 

The thing is, she'll always meet people. She'll always have people to hang out with. Don't torture yourself by making up scenarios in your head that might not even happen. Or else you'll never be able to sleep at night. I mean, she can genuinely be just busy or something.

 

And yeah, keep it cool tomorrow and keep it light. Just casually ask her how she's been since you last met up -- and accept whatever she offers. If she wants you to know anything, she'll tell you.

 

You'll be fine. Don't overthink it

[cshim]

You're right, I'm being neurotic. When I feel like something's up, my mind goes off on tangents. I'm usually pretty good about resisting impulses but it is kind of relieving to release it through some channel. Better to let it out to random people on the Internet

 

Anyways, still no word back. I'll send her a confirmation email tomorrow afternoon and hope things turn work out well.

[halfcrazed_i]

Hah! Worry not, we've all been where you are somehow -- we've all been driven bat**** crazy by someone (especially those who like making us wait). So yeah, I can commiserate.

 

This is the reason why girls have girls' night out. So we can rehash / overthink / overanalyze everything that has happened -- possibly causing more damage than good. Then get absolutely smashed at the end of the night. Not healthy, but lots of fun

 

Hopefully you can hear back from her today. But I thought that tonight's date is already set in stone? And that you're just awaiting to hear her answer about the weekend?

 

Either way -- I hope you get the answers that you want

[cshim]

Unfortunately weekday meetings are never set in stone as work hours can be unpredictable. And it seems like today's arrangement probably isn't gonna work out I messaged her and she said she'll probably have to work late...

 

Oh well. I guess the ball's in her court now...

[halfcrazed_i]

I'm sorry to hear that Must've been frustrating. It's a good thing that you're both in the same industry. At least you can understand the kind of hours her work demands.

 

In the meantime, yes, it looks like you'll just have to wait for her to get back to you. But at least she replied back today. Did she mention anything about the weekend?

 

If not, don't stress too much about it. Hang out with your friends and do something that'll make you happy...

[cshim]

Yeah it was frustrating. She suddenly messaged me around 6 pm saying she was free but I got caught with something at work at the last minute. So by the time I responded 30 mins later she had already gone home. But she did suggest meeting Sunday, which was nice.

 

Still not counting my chickens before they hatch. She did the same thing last week and never really followed up, hopefully things work out this time. Good things come to those who wait, right? I guess life actually isn't fair like that but one can hope.

 

Either way, if we meet, I'm thinking of maybe going cold turkey for a week to see if she takes any initiative. Not sure if that's actually the best approach but might be insightful.

 

And am going drinking with my college buddy this weekend. Hopefully that takes the edge off a little lol.

[halfcrazed_i]

Ooh that sucks! You guys sound star-crossed or something...

 

Might not be a bad idea to lay off for a while. At least that way, you can seriously gauge her investment in your pseudo-relationship -- or at least if she puts in any form of effort. I mean, you've really put your cards on the table over the past couple of weeks in terms of asking her out. There isn't much more you can do to let her know you're interested.

 

Just be careful because no contact like that can potentially kill you (knowing how fast the frequency of your brain can work sometimes, haha!). And well, of course I'm hoping for a happy ending for you... but will you be ready to accept it if you get the opposite of the results you're hoping for?

 

So you were able to firm up Sunday with her? She suggested it, so hopefully she'll follow through. I mean, at the very least, that's what she should do.

[cshim]

Haha star crossed sounds about right. But here's my plan:

 

If she doesn't get back to me with a time and place by Saturday afternoon Ill politely bring up the matter again. If things work out, great. If not, well, game over I guess. But a face to face meeting would really help me get a better grasp of how she feels right now.

 

Afterwards, I'll take a week off to see if she takes any initiative. Like you said, my brains a little high octane for my liking sometimes so who knows how well Ill deal with that lol. Maybe the next meeting after that I'll make a move. Not entirely sure how'd I'd deal with a rejection to be honest. I feel like I'd be in the dumps for a few days and then maybe slowly get back on my feet but I really can't say!

 

Anyways, plans like this usually never work out the way you intend but maybe it's worth a shot

[halfcrazed_i]

Well, as I always say... follow your gut. It's the best benchmark you'll ever get.

 

I do hope that you at least get to see her this weekend so that you can better assess where you stand with the girl. The mind is a powerful thing... she needs to put you out of your misery (regardless of how it ends)

 

But hey, if she doesn't go for it (heaven forbid), at least you can find solace in the fact that she wasn't a bitch about it -- she could've dragged it on, strung you along, and then left you for dead much later. Rejection will always be a papercut in between the toes painful, but it could be a lot worse...

 

Still rooting for you though. Dang, talk about my emotional investment in your little saga. Haha! Let me know how it goes over the weekend. Best of luck!

[cshim]

Ha thanks. No one ever likes getting turned down but it builds character right (or destroys it...)

 

But yeah, honestly my mind's been a bigger adversary than this chick's seduction and shenanigans Will do my best to keep things in perspective.

 

And sure will let you know how things go. Thanks again for your feedback and concern! It's always gratifying when random strangers take interest in your troubles and offer comfort and support. Very much appreciated!!

[cshim]

Well shucks, got cancelled on for tomorrow. Game over, I guess

 

At this point, seems pretty clear that she's not interested. The communication was solid before and she used to freely agree to meet up; not sure what the catalyst was but doubt I'll ever find out...

[cshim]

Thanks for your feedback, Kevin. Am I needy in this case? Yes, no doubt about it. But I'm aware of that and tried not to show it too much. I pushed for a meeting, yes, but only texted after receiving a reply (even after periods of days) and kept things short and to the point.

 

And I've been hanging out with this chick for about 3 months and only recently decided to push for the next level. It's not like she's someone new I met a week ago.

 

Plus the whole macho manly things doesn't work as much in Japan. Girls here seem to like scrawny guys for whatever reason but I won't complain much. I've never been ripped, probably never will be, and don't a feel to go that route.

 

But I've had success in the past by talking to girls about what I'm passionate about while using engaging body language. I used that technique with her and seemed to get a good response but for whatever reason she's flaked out the past couple weeks. Don't plan on contacting her anytime soon because the bull****'s wearing on me too much; if she ever gets back to me I'll think about meeting her. Probably best to cut my losses and carry on.

[halfcrazed_i]

Errr... Who's Kevin? I don't see any other feedback aside from our back-and-forth. Or are my eyes playing with me?

 

Anyway, what happened? Did she text you without any prodding from you? Or did you follow up on her? Did she give you any reason?

 

Sorry to hear that though

 

But hey, she clearly doesn't know what she's missing. If any guy has put in as much effort getting to know me as you have on her (not to mention the torment he put himself through just from stressing out to get my attention), I would totally go out with him. I know that doesn't make you feel any better... But you know, for what it's worth and all that.

 

I hope to the heavens that you are out with your college friend right now getting smashed on sake or shoju Do the cold turkey thing with her and see if she bites. But I strongly suggest that you bin this one, charge everything to experience and move on. There's a girl out there who will be happy enough to go out with you without sending you to a tailspin. And I know that you know it too...

 

If this was high school, all you have to do is go out with one of her friends and shower her all the attention you used to give her *grin* Alas! We are adults now... And we just have to suck it up.

 

What's going on in your head?

[cshim]

Oh he posted something before but I guess he deleted his post. Strange.

 

Haha thanks for your encouragement. She responded unprompted Saturday morning saying she had to meet up with her senpai (her slightly older senior) from work. No rescheduling this time though.

 

I certainly don't plan on contacting her again. If she comes back at me (unlikely I think), I'll read the situation. But you're right: I should probably just drop the whole thing and start anew. You have to roll with the punches, right?

 

Obviously I'm sad and annoyed and a small part of me wants to hang on. But I think time will heal everything since I'm not down-in-the-dumps depressed. Going out with my college buddy helped a lot. We both got blasted and bitched about our personal problems. It's good I have at least some foundation of support to fall back on.

[halfcrazed_i]

Haha there's nothing that drinking (and ice cream) cannot resolve...

 

I know it's harder said than done. But yeah, time to move on. I've always been grateful that I'm a girl, so I actually have a social reason not to be the chaser in any potential relationship (yes yes, I know about women's lib and that it's the 21st century... But you know what I mean). One can only take so much rejection. And I'm deathly afraid of it. You'd think that by now, I'd have thicker skin given my "life experiences" but nope, I'm still petrified of them.

 

So yeah. You got balls for doing what you did. And as I said, charge it to life experience and cut your losses. I promise you, a few months down he road, you would be laughing about this. Think of it as practice for the next girl. Humility has always been an attractive trait to us girls.

 

If it was meant to be it shouldn't be this hard.

 

I'm hoping that this girl isn't someone you bump into often at/for work. That way, you can avoid any awkwardness or whatnot.

 

Oh and yeah, trust me, this is nothing worth getting depressed over. Wait until the end of a long term relationship where the girl cut your chest open with a spoon -- save the depression and wallowing for that. For now, you shrug, dust your hands and keep looking forward. You have lots to look forward to. You're still very young.

 

How's the dating scene over there in Japan these days? My Japanese friend says that Western shows like Sex and the City are giving girls way too many ideas about how men should treat them (and are becoming self-entitled). He said that Japanese guys aren't meant to be romantic. LOL, spoken like a true cynic. You agree with him?

[cshim]

Haha thanks again for the supportive words. I'll do my best to put my heart back in my chest and carry on. Hopefully I can find someone else who matches well with me, but that's difficult in Japan unfortunately Like I said before, I'm generally not into ordinary Japanese girls. That'll be the hardest part of moving on.

 

She works for a different company in a different party of the city. There's a fairly low chance I'll run into her randomly.

 

To be honest, I'm not sure how the dating scene is haha. I'm pretty detached from mainstream Japan (crappy language abilities, work for an American company, etc.). I'm making a huge generalization but Japanese men are no good. My generation's better and worse in certain ways. Japanese society's becoming slowly less patriarchic which means women are slowly becoming more empowered. But the whole notion that ditzy, immature women are attractive remains as strong as ever. Plus a lot of Japanese guys just seem to have pretty bland personalities. People here aren't big on making themselves distinctive.