Cellar_Door Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 (edited) I am looking for advice. I am currently seeing a woman (a co-worker I have known for several years) during week-ends. We are both single (we broke up approximately at the same time, 2 months ago, so I would say that both of us are more or less on the rebound), and we obviously enjoy the time we spend together. However I have mixed feelings on what's going on. On the plus sides: we used to be very close at work, with a lot of shared interests and common point of views about everything. Since 6 weeks, we meet every week-end we are available (we never did that before), four times already, only the two of us, at various events (exhibitions, mostly). Our afternoon always end up with a coffee and walking around the city, sometimes with dinner (I have proposed to go out the first two times, than she offered to go out the two lasts). We never split the checks, one of us pays every time. It has never been clear at the beginning this was a date, but the more we are seeing each other, the more it looks like it is. We have spent very funny moments so far, with a lot of laughs and complicity, and we recently started to discuss personal matters. We have already planned together our next saturday evening, which would be, IMO, romantic (a walking in Paris at night while visiting exhibitions, yes we do love that). However she is a completely different person outside the week-end (not only at work, but when we are alone together), the only way I could describe this is "cold" or "unconcerned" (and I have the feeling this has changed when we started to go out). Also she replies to my texts with very short and unpersonal messages. I would say that she is a bit out of this world (which I find attractive), very independant, not very empathic, yet very sociable and friendly with other people. She also stated several times that she likes her loneliness (which is true, as she spend most of her free time alone). She has a lot of friends living in other part of the country, but stays very superficial with them, and she does not see them often. I try to make clear that it is not friendship for me (I jockingly said that I was a bit jealous of other guys, I send her non professional text asking for news, I usually dress above my average on our week-ends, etc...), so she cannot miss the point. I know for sure that she is not seeing any other guy, and that she usually not go out with friends on 1 on 1 date like we are doing. Also, she stays secretive about our week-ends, while she used to discuss at work her meeting with friends. So I am still puzzled. Do you believe she is just looking for a friend to spend some time or is she looking for more ? I could explain the behavior by her personality, but I used to think that when 2 single people go repeatedly out together like we do, some romantic interest is at work. But she has so different behavior than usual "average woman", that I am starting to wonder if I am on the right way of thinking with her. I am currently not pushing things too much, because being both of us freshly separated, it would seem a bit pressing. Instead I try to play the game of slow seduction, which IMO fits the situation, but I feel I am the only one playing this on a regular basis. What would you do in my place to clear the atmosphere ? Thanks for help and sorry for the long post. Edited May 9, 2014 by Cellar_Door
Zahara Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 (edited) I would say that she is a bit out of this world (which I find attractive), very independant, not very empathic, yet very sociable and friendly with other people. She also stated several times that she likes her loneliness (which is true, as she spend most of her free time alone). She has a lot of friends living in other part of the country, but stays very superficial with them, and she does not see them often.. You're playing the game of slow seduction? I don't think you'll win. She doesn't sound like someone who is wanting or needs an emotional connection. She may want the comforts of having someone when she needs it (during the weekends when she's free and needs company -- isn't consumed with a 40 hour work week) but in terms of putting in effort to maintain and nurture a relationship with someone, it is most likely not what she wants. Honestly, she sounds cold and self-absorbed. Edited May 9, 2014 by Zahara
Author Cellar_Door Posted May 9, 2014 Author Posted May 9, 2014 Well, the thing is that I am feeling she is a bit complicated. Not that I want to persuade myself that I am right, but to my knowledge she broke up with her first love (14 years relationship). So I am wondering if this could be simply that she can not manage the dating process because of a lack of experience (never happened this way to her before). It could also be that she needs time for the rebound process. And of course that she doesn't care. Knowing her a little bit more, she is at ease with superficial discussions, but feels uneasy when discussing more personal matters (not only with me). She is very shy in her own way. It's a bit hard to describe, as I never met a girl like her, her psychology is far from standard, so I don't try to apply standard appreciations to her behavior. Honestly, this is kind of unusual to me. I am just wondering what to do next. Stopping seeing her is an appropriate answer.
Author Cellar_Door Posted May 9, 2014 Author Posted May 9, 2014 (edited) during the weekends when she's free and needs company -- isn't consumed with a 40 hour work week Well, on this you are wrong, she is perfectly fine alone, very solitary. She used to spend week-ends just by herself, and clearly stated that she appreciates that. She is VERY peculiar and it's actually very unusual that she goes out so often. To give you an idea, she spent her 14 years relationship abroad or far from her ex bf, seeing him only once per month, at best, twice a year for the worst (2 years). She was fine with that. As I said, I am aware of the high probability that our week-ends would be for entertainement only, no question would be raised with another woman. I am just wondering how to proceed, given the way she is, to clear the situation without bluntly asking what's going on. Edited May 9, 2014 by Cellar_Door
Zahara Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 I'm not sure what to tell you but if you insist on pursuing this woman, then the only thing you can do is communicate how you feel. The fact that she is emotionally and mentally non-receptive to you, the only way to break through that wall is to be upfront. You'll get your answer. Trying to read and unravel someone that behaves this way is futile. I don't know if she is socially inept, somewhat narcissistic or just not very much into you. I'm wondering if you actually like her for qualities -- qualities you seek in a woman (are you seeking a woman that isn't very empathetic, someone that is superficial with her friends, someone that is cold, someone that can flip their personas, etc.) or that you're wanting to chase what you cannot have. And when someone cannot open up on personal and emotional matters, don't mistake that for shyness. 2
Author Cellar_Door Posted May 9, 2014 Author Posted May 9, 2014 Thanks for the constructive reply. I just realize that I had to put upfront specifics that make her appear more than like a monster than anything else. I just needed to explain why usual appreciation may not work here. She has of course qualities (irrelevant for the situation), I won't be here asking your advices if not. I have to admit that I discovered most of the "bad" sides only recently, and of course it makes me think. Anyway, if there's a chance, I'd like to know by myself if it is only appearences at work or truth. If it is, well, there is obviously no chance it will work with me.
Zahara Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 Thanks for the constructive reply. I just realize that I had to put upfront specifics that make her appear more than like a monster than anything else. I just needed to explain why usual appreciation may not work here. She has of course qualities (irrelevant for the situation), I won't be here asking your advices if not. I have to admit that I discovered most of the "bad" sides only recently, and of course it makes me think. Anyway, if there's a chance, I'd like to know by myself if it is only appearences at work or truth. If it is, well, there is obviously no chance it will work with me. She isn't a monster but that she has qualities that wouldn't work in terms of building a healthy relationship. You said she was fine seeing her boyfriend of 14 years twice a year. If you believe you can manage a relationship with someone that can emotionally detach that way, then by all means pursue. "However she is a completely different person outside the week-end (not only at work, but when we are alone together), the only way I could describe this is "cold" or "unconcerned" You said that she turns cold when you are alone with her during the week. Then it's not just at work. You said she is superficial with her friends. Then it's not just you. You said she isn't very empathetic, then this is who she is.
Chocolat Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 I try to make clear that it is not friendship for me (I jockingly said that I was a bit jealous of other guys OP, other than your joking reference to being jealous of other guys, what have you done to signal your interest? It sounds to me that you have approached as a friend and are now unhappy to be in the friend zone. , I send her non professional text asking for news, I usually dress above my average on our week-ends, etc...), so she cannot miss the point. So you're relying on her knowing what your usual style of weekend dress is as an indicator of interest?? I know for sure that she is not seeing any other guy, and that she usually not go out with friends on 1 on 1 date like we are doing. Are these dates? Do you pick her up at her house, is there physical interaction (kissing, making out, etc.)? OP, You say you've been seeing her for 6 weeks but it does not sound to me that you have ever made it clear that you are interested as anything more than a friend. Frankly, if I'd been pal-ing around with a guy from work for 6 weeks and he hadn't made any move, I would assume he was looking for friendship and I would respond accordingly. I don't know if you can un-friend-zone yourself at this point, but, if that's what you want to do, you need to make it clear that these are dates, not hang outs between co-workers who both have spare time on their hands.
Author Cellar_Door Posted May 9, 2014 Author Posted May 9, 2014 (edited) Chocolat, no I haven't made it clear yet the way you expect. As I explained, it did not started as dates but it is moving on this way for now. On the other side, we are never pal-ing as you say. I don't see any friendship going on here, thats the problem, it's in between. There are usually clear indicators of being just a friend, same as indicators of interest are existing. I feel I am just in between. Regarding making the date itself clear, let's just say that for the couple of weeks coming I can not, for personal reasons, go on a date. I would have done it before. I agree with you Zahara, I may be doing a mistake, and yes she is cold (or at least different, detached) during the week. I have the feeling to see 2 different people in week-end and during the week. I believe I am hoping the week-end one is the true one... Edited May 9, 2014 by Cellar_Door
cshim Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 Wow, this sounds a lot like my own personal circumstances (*hinthint* check out my own post). I know what you mean, straddling that awkward middle ground between friendship and dating. I'm an admittedly cautious person; I like to have a strong sense of how my partner/target feels before going into the more intimate stuff so keep that in mind. But I have two suggestions: 1. Try superficial physical contact and see how she responds. Tapping her on the arm, patting her on the back, gently grabbing her shoulder things like that. 2. Go out for drinks if you haven't done so already. Some people are naturally shy and need a bit extra to open up. You may be able to make more headway after a couple glasses of wine. Hell, you should try both at the same time. As they say, in wine there is truth. That should give you clearer insight into her actual personality and how she actually feels about you.
Author Cellar_Door Posted May 9, 2014 Author Posted May 9, 2014 Finally someone who understands. But you had to go to japan to find something/someone similar She doesn't drink (never), but I'll try of course to initiate physical contact.
Author Cellar_Door Posted June 20, 2014 Author Posted June 20, 2014 (edited) 6 weeks after my post here, I would like to give an update about my situation. In short : we ended up together two weeks ago. I was actually right about her, she was just expressing mixed signals because she is very shy. It has been quite a fight to get her express her feelings, but now we are having great time together. So please, anyone coming to such forums for advices, be careful. If I had blindly followed the one I were given, I would have dropped the ball and missed this girl. I understand that advices are what I came for, but I also realize that most of the one given were considering the ideal behavior of a girl in the context of seduction, not the girl itself. Every one is different, some girls need time, some behave stupidly... So, listen to advices, but stay focused, and above all, listen to your guts. And if you feel that something is going on around you while the rest of the world tells you that you should forget about it, well... your guts may be right Anyway, thanks all of you for your support and advices, I am now looking to a bright future Edited June 20, 2014 by Cellar_Door
Recommended Posts