25 years and out?

[beach]

Any update?

[RoseMadder]

Tell your wife the truth, the whole ugly truth, you owe her that. My dad recently left my mom after I uncovered his second affair, he thought he was a good actor too. She might hate you for cheating on her but sometimes that makes it easier for the BS to move on, seeing my dad for the lying, cheating scumbag he is has made her realise she never REALLY knew him, only what he wanted her to see.

 

From the point of view of the adult child of a cheating parent I can tell you that it's the lies that will rip your relationship with your kids apart not a separation/divorce. When you have a parent that lies about everything and fakes happiness it makes it very hard to trust anybody, once your kids see you as a liar they will doubt everything that comes out your mouth, they will be upset if you leave their mom, they'll be devastated if they find out everything they trusted is a lie.

[Crossroads66]

Tell your wife the truth, the whole ugly truth, you owe her that. My dad recently left my mom after I uncovered his second affair, he thought he was a good actor too. She might hate you for cheating on her but sometimes that makes it easier for the BS to move on, seeing my dad for the lying, cheating scumbag he is has made her realise she never REALLY knew him, only what he wanted her to see.

 

From the point of view of the adult child of a cheating parent I can tell you that it's the lies that will rip your relationship with your kids apart not a separation/divorce. When you have a parent that lies about everything and fakes happiness it makes it very hard to trust anybody, once your kids see you as a liar they will doubt everything that comes out your mouth, they will be upset if you leave their mom, they'll be devastated if they find out everything they trusted is a lie.

Thanks RoseMadder. I can tell I belong to a cohort of men you despise, but I'm grateful for your advice, I hadn't considered things from that angle and I'll very much take it on board.

 

Adultery is never a good option. That said, in my case the circumstances leading up to it were very much a two-way street, and it happened. I'm not proud of it. But I still have a chance to be a good person. All I'm saying is, you might want to cut your Dad some slack.

[Crossroads66]

Okay........ there has been some action since May.

 

The OP and myself recommitted. At that time I decided that my marriage was indeed over, irreconcilable even if we wanted to reconcile (I didn't). So, I rented an apartment, worked out a date when it would be convenient to confess all. I fully expected my wife, having been through this before, would immediately agree to a (hopefully amicable) separation and divorce.

 

Well, it didn't quite work out that way. I confessed all to my wife, and after a night of anguish and some physical violence, we agreed to try again. That resolution lasted a matter of hours. We both entered the doldrums again until a few days later my wife, having been fired up by her mother, demanded I leave.

 

That actually came with some relief. I moved into the apartment I've rented (this would be over a month ago now) and have slowly set myself up. Not into a proper routine with the children yet, but that'll have to happen soon.

 

Now here's the kicker. The door to home is not closed. The kids all want me to come back and my wife does too (she's conveying that message while still retaining dignity, but it's pretty clear that's what she wants). There are moments when I want to go home with all (well, most of) my heart; and other moments when I know with complete conviction that it would be very short lived and doomed to fail, even if it *is* what we both wanted. Meanwhile, the OP, is getting extremely frustrated with my inability to fully commit to her, and has disappeared in to the background. So in spite of having left home (for over a month now) I still feel very much stuck in the middle - and just a little bit alone. Is this normal??? I'm tempted just to make a decision, any decision even if it's the wrong one just so that everyone involved can move forward. But I know this is my *one* chance to get it right. I never, ever want to be in this situation again.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Crossroads66

[KarlaB]

Crossroads while I wasn't on this board when you first posted but I have gone back and read some of the posts. After 15 years of marriage, and some rocky times but no cheating involved, my husband said he wanted a divorce. I went through a few days of the pleading to work on it but he was pretty clear that he didn't even want to work on it. Then something clicked with me. I realized that neither one of us has been truly happy in the marriage and we have been living like roommates for years. I knew deep down that divorce was going to happen someday, just didn't think it would be when our son was 7. I too, like you, thought I needed to stay married for financial reasons or the status of being married and not have the divorced title, but that just leaves me in a loveless marriage and still alone. You have to figure out what will make you happy. I think you already know but don't want to look like the bad guy and make the decision.

 

Your kids will be find, my 7 year old thinks it's gonna be pretty cool to have 2 bedrooms and houses. While my husband is the one that wants this, I am working on what I need to do to make it happen and the funny thing is, he is walking around looking more miserable than I am. I already have a new place to move to very soon, I already filed the divorce papers, and I am making this an amicable divorce for the sake of our son.

 

I still have my bad moments, I think that is normal, but I do realize this is the best for ME. My divorce isn't final yet so I am sure I will have some very bad moments when that happens but I am focusing on me and my son. I am not letting him see me cry and I try to keep very upbeat around him. Do that with your kids. Make a plan on what days you will see them and then make those days awesome.

 

Hang in there!

[Majormisstep]

Crossroads, I was in the EXACT same position as you. Married for 23 years. We (H?) held our M together for years because dang it, the roommate relationship was better than being alone or worse, back in the dating world. But then H couldn't take the strain anymore and asked me to leave. Which I did.

 

I bought a brand new place but was sickened by my new status in this world, the stigma of being another divorcee. The house felt all wrong and empty and cold but I slowly added furniture and pictures and my teenagers began raiding my fridge like normal and their buddies started coming over and it was....ok. Not good, but ok. Now, I enjoy coming home. No more awkwardness, pretending to want to be together, just peace. Sure, some days it's lonely but that feeling does not last long.

 

I knew my younger son would spend equal time between our two homes and thought the older one would completely disappear. Quite the opposite. My older son lives with me full time and younger son spends more time here than with his dad.

 

H and I are amicable and communicate openly about the kids. Sometimes we call just to chat and check on each other's day. I still think about the what-if's and why-not's but for now, I have to use this time to figure out what I want in this life.

[beach]

You haven't been happy with your W so divorce her.

 

You keep hurting your OW - so leave her alone until your divorce is final.

 

Why are you so scared to be alone?

 

Learn to be happy on your own. When your D is final maybe you will have an idea of who you are and what makes you happy all on your own.

 

You don't even know who you are as an individual and you need time to process being away from the marriage.

 

Then you could offer your happier self to the right woman.

[Crossroads66]

Thanks guys!

 

Beach - your words "rang true and glowed like burning coal" (to quote Dylan for a moment) - yet reading them made me feel all squirmy. But I know you're right.

 

Majormisstep - can I ask how far your are down the track??

 

Cheers.

[KarlaB]

Beach your words hit me too.. Why am I afraid to be alone? Probably because I have felt alone already in this long 15 year marriage that I want to be loved finally by someone. But I do know I need to be alone for awhile to find out who I am because of these 15 years which have changed me.

[RoseMadder]

Thanks RoseMadder. I can tell I belong to a cohort of men you despise, but I'm grateful for your advice, I hadn't considered things from that angle and I'll very much take it on board.

 

Adultery is never a good option. That said, in my case the circumstances leading up to it were very much a two-way street, and it happened. I'm not proud of it. But I still have a chance to be a good person. All I'm saying is, you might want to cut your Dad some slack.

 

I don't despise you! I'm just trying to give you the advice I wish someone would've given my dad. If my dad had been honest with us from the start then our relationship would be in a much better state than it is, he's told so many lies to so many people that I quite literally don't believe a word he says. It's that bad that I've downloaded a voice recorder app to my phone and whenever I see him I record our entire conversation!

 

I don't know your situation in regards to why you had affairs, all I know is that there's always a reason that justifies it in the mind of the adulterer, sometimes that reason is valid, sometimes not, the only people who know that are your family and they're the only ones whose opinions should really matter. You can still be a good person and dad, just be prepared to put more in than you'll get out for a time, if you're consistent, honest and loving, whatever they throw at you, then things will work themselves out in time. My dads a different kettle of fish, he's put in ZERO effort with my brothers and I, do you know what I got for my 30th birthday? A comedy card with "from dad" written in it! It's actually got to the point where I don't want to have anything to do with him, he's so angry and paranoid that his lies will be uncovered that he's started to scare me.

 

In response to your post yesterday I'd agree with what others have said about sticking to the decision to leave. You know your marriage is over, going back is just gouging the wound open again. Be honest with your family about where you stand, that you're not coming back home, that your marriage is over and that you'll answer any questions they have truthfully. It'll be hard, but your children will respect you for it, they might not SHOW you much respect at the time but they'll come round sooner or later.

 

Probably the best thing you can do now is be on your own, at least until your divorce is over. Don't complicate an already complicated situation by getting involved with your AP or any other woman for that matter, your kids are far more likely to want to be involved with your future girlfriend if they don't blame her for your divorce. It'll be tough being on your own but if you truly want to do 'the right thing' then you'll be ok.

 

Good luck Crossroad, I'm sure you and your kids will figure out a new way to be a family. It's like Leonard Cohen said - the cracks, the cracks are everywhere, it's how the light gets in.

[Majormisstep]

Crossroads, I've been in my own place for 7 months now and every day it gets better. The first month was the hardest but I kept so busy with hobbies and friends that I was never home and started to want to be there just to chill out.

 

What I have learned in this short time is that I absolutely cannot go back to the way things were. Huge changes would have to be implemented on both sides and don't think either of us are prepared to do this, right at this point in time anyway.

 

Don't be afraid of the future or being alone. If you are capable of finding other "relationships" while M, then once you are on your own and clear of the D processes, meeting someone right for YOU will happen when you least expect it. On the other hand, if you and W are meant to be together, with hard work this may be where you spend the rest of your years. But I suspect the latter won't be the case here. And that is ok. You (and your kids and W) will be ok.

 

Oh, and as a former OW myself, please leave this lady alone until you get your ducks in a row....

[Crossroads66]

I thought I'd share this - I posted it on another blog

 

To state that “all affairs are fantasy” in a blanket statement is patronizing. While it is ludicrous to compare the excitement of a new relationship with one where there are mortgages to pay and noses to wipe; it is also not correct to say that the affair relationship is always based on some trivial premise completely devoid of reality and integrity.

 

The first question that needs to be dealt with is is ‘do we *want* to embark on a definitely painful, potentially fruitless marriage saving journey’? Far too many resources – both online and otherwise – seem to assume the answer is “well, yes!! Duh!!”. The reality however is different. If the betraying spouse feels coerced, or “guilted” into proceeding with a reconciliation, then it will be doomed to fail.

 

Deciding whether or not to attempt to rebuild a relationship must surely be nearly as painful as the rebuild itself. But this process deserves respect from those who purport to have a counseling role. I missed out on this when I had an affair in 2008, and the unresolved issues and continuing dishonesty about how I *really* felt led to the process being repeated 5 years later.

 

 

And, three months down the line I am still in my apartment. Many times over that period I have felt a powerful urge to return home. But... it doesn't seem to have the required conviction, and perhaps has more to do with making the pain go away, rather than doing what is right. So up until now I have resisted. And today, W came around saying she's sick of the pain, the waiting, and wants to move on. Much of me wanted to resist, give a reassuring grin and slap on the back saying "of *course* we're not splitting up!". But I let her walk away.

[scatterd]

You have had one foot out the door and one in for some time now. Not dealing with you marriage problems is the reason it failed and caused tension and defensiveness. After the first affair you did not learn anything and you turned around and did it again. I think your wife should want to get rid of this drama. You said that she was tired of the pain and you wanted to say forget it and do it again. Why? she is tired of this pain. Honestly I think your family will be happier with more of a stable life. You should seek counseling to find out why you turned to OW when times were tough. Relationships loose the newness after time and you just trade one problem in for a whole new set of them with someone else. I know this sounds harsh but you have not handled your problems in a mature healthy way. Problems follow us no matter how far we run. You do not love your wife and their is no question their is harm already done. The best you can do now is work on fixing your self and give her the freedom to be happy and think.You need to be Be kind so her and the children can have some peace. Look at all the people that is getting hurt. You are pretty lucky that your wife stuck around along as she did she must of loved you. If you think about it she was and is more deserving of getting your attention then your side kicks. Every marriage has problems and takes work. Think back in the beginning, you must of loved her enough that you decided to marry her. Think about how it could have been if things were handled with love and care. Now look at what has gone wrong. Really think about it. This is really sad for your whole family Isn't it. I know you think what is being said here is harsh but if you stay and read with an open mind you will get a lot of insight and different opinions. I am sure you feel pain and hurt also. Most of us do.We all have a lot to learn. Good Luck

[Crossroads66]

You have had one foot out the door and one in for some time now. Not dealing with you marriage problems is the reason it failed and caused tension and defensiveness. After the first affair you did not learn anything and you turned around and did it again. I think your wife should want to get rid of this drama. You said that she was tired of the pain and you wanted to say forget it and do it again. Why? she is tired of this pain. Honestly I think your family will be happier with more of a stable life. You should seek counseling to find out why you turned to OW when times were tough. Relationships loose the newness after time and you just trade one problem in for a whole new set of them with someone else. I know this sounds harsh but you have not handled your problems in a mature healthy way. Problems follow us no matter how far we run. You do not love your wife and their is no question their is harm already done. The best you can do now is work on fixing your self and give her the freedom to be happy and think.You need to be Be kind so her and the children can have some peace. Look at all the people that is getting hurt. You are pretty lucky that your wife stuck around along as she did she must of loved you. If you think about it she was and is more deserving of getting your attention then your side kicks. Every marriage has problems and takes work. Think back in the beginning, you must of loved her enough that you decided to marry her. Think about how it could have been if things were handled with love and care. Now look at what has gone wrong. Really think about it. This is really sad for your whole family Isn't it. I know you think what is being said here is harsh but if you stay and read with an open mind you will get a lot of insight and different opinions. I am sure you feel pain and hurt also. Most of us do.We all have a lot to learn. Good Luck

Thanks. Actually, I agreed to marry my wife with reservations, at the age of 20. There was never really enough justification for it; she asked me and I kind of felt "whatever". Consequently, I *never* stopped second guessing the decision - and I still don't. If I had my time again, I would not marry this person. Given what unfolded I would be crazy to.

 

Fast forward to now........ I have been out of my home for over 5 months now, but visit there regularly - most days if I'm honest. In that time there have been three serious attempts to end things with my my new relationship and move back. Each has failed. Mainly because I become paralysed with fear, and also it hits home what I really would be giving up with my new partner. My wife still wants me back, is prepared to forgive all and go into counseling. My kids do too. This is a huge pull, and I still feel stuck in limbo. Most sources tell me to close the door and move on in spite of what my wife (thinks) she wants. My heart tells me to back and try one more time - knowing that if it failed, it would be even worse than proceeding to divorce now.

[Downtown]

My W...is also emotionally unstable.

What does that mean, Crossroads? I ask because the major causes of emotional instability (e.g., mood changes) are a strong hormone change or drug abuse. Yet, because you've mentioned nothing about such changes occurring, I note that the two remaining common causes of instability are strong traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) or bipolar disorder.

 

If you're interested, I describe the differences I've seen between the behaviors typical of bipolar sufferers (e.g., my foster son) and BPDers (e.g., my exW) at 12 BPD/Bipolar Differences. If that description rings any bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you. Take care, Crossroads.

[outthewindow]

Why are you over there almost every day?

 

If you want to find clarity and let your wife do the same you both need some space and distance from each other.

 

I understand you have kids, but you don't need to be in the 'family' home to see them. Pick them up and take them out, or take them to your place for dinner or whatever.

 

If you are going to separate then do it properly. Stop communication with your wife, give the AP a rest and figure out who you are and what you want. What you are doing now is just unfair. You are giving your wife and kids false hope, and stringing them along. Same with your AP.

 

You are cake eating. Stop. All this is doing is harming everyone involved. Including you.

 

FWIW, you have never been single as an adult. You claim to be unhappy in your marriage and I don't doubt that you are, but rushing from one relationship to another won't make you happy in the long run. You don't know who you are. Or what you want. All this will do is damage your next relationship too.

 

Go be single. It's scary, but it's also wonderful. Figure out who you are as a self contained person, not as half of a couple. Find out what makes you happy, what your likes and dislikes are. Then, once you've done that and are content with your life you will be ready for another relationship.

 

Most importantly stop being an as* to your wife, she deserves better. Let her go so she can get over you. She will come out of this stronger and better if you stop messing her around, and that's the kind of mother you want for your kids isn't it?

[Crossroads66]

What does that mean, Crossroads? I ask because the major causes of emotional instability (e.g., mood changes) are a strong hormone change or drug abuse.

Thanks downtown, yes you are right to ask. No drug abuse or hormone change. When I was dating my wife her mother described her affectionately as being a "worry-wort" but this was trivialising the issue entirely. What she actually has is an anxiety disorder with occasional bouts of depression as well. There have been many periods in our lives which on paper should have been happy, but had the joy sucked out of them by my wife's anxiety. She only even begun to seek therapy after we'd been married twelve years. The trauma response in her that I am currently witnessing due to our separation I have witnessed many times before over far more trivial issues. It is only now that I am in a new relationship that I have discovered what a relaxed, mutually respectful interaction between two romantically entangled people actually can be.

[Crossroads66]

Thanks so much for this outthewindow. One point - I am not "cake eating", although I can certainly concede how it appears that way. Believe me I hate this existence, and I only want one "cake".

 

I take your point about "letting my wife go", but in my case that actually means "finally pushing her away", and she has said she will be devastated if/when that finally happens. And in the meantime, my urge just to go running home and make everyones' pain go away is occasionally huge.

[Crossroads66]

One question - is it possible to quote and respond to a post point by point rather than the whole thing in one block of text??

[Downtown]

Yes, just copy and paste the sentence you wish to quote. After pasting it, highlight it and then select the "quote" icon at the top of the message box. It will place quote marks at beginning and end.

[outthewindow]

You are right, she will be devestated, but this is her first step to freedom. And yours too. The longer you hold off, the longer she holds onto false hope, the harder it will be for her.

 

If she suffers from depression and anxiety make sure she has her family and/or friends around to catch her when the bomb drops.

 

Don't use that as an excuse to not drop it though.

 

No one said it was going to be easy, but you obviously don't love her so let her go.

[ralfgarnett]

You have more than one foot out the door.

 

If you want to save your marraige put all of your effort & energy into doing that. Get counseling. Date & romance your wife -- flowers, sweet talk, the whole thing.

 

If you don't want to do that, end itm before you cheat again. That's not fair to anyone including you.

 

 

Agreed. in my opinion there is never any good excuse or reasoning for having an affair why not just be honest with your wife ?, even though my wife and I are apart we were always honest with each other and no matter the circumstances then neither of us would of cheated on the other, whatever the future holds I wish you and your wife all the luck in the world this year I think your both going to need it.

[LifesontheUp]

Thanks so much for this outthewindow. One point - I am not "cake eating", although I can certainly concede how it appears that way. Believe me I hate this existence, and I only want one "cake".

 

I take your point about "letting my wife go", but in my case that actually means "finally pushing her away", and she has said she will be devastated if/when that finally happens. And in the meantime, my urge just to go running home and make everyones' pain go away is occasionally huge.

 

Going home is not going to make everyones pain go away? How?

 

I grew up in a home where my mother had affairs. Don't get me started on what they showed me and my other siblings There were many times when we all wished our parents would split up so we didn't have to listen to the arguments or the unhappy faces of both our parents.

 

No matter what you say, your kids know and will be affected by what you and your wife have done.

 

From a kid that grew up in similar circumstances, stay away. You've made the break, and unless you are 110% back in to work and fix with your wife, don't put your kids through it any longer...................

[beach]

Have you done counseling with your wife during these past months?

 

Have you done that while not having a relationship with your OW?

[Mr. Lucky]

What she actually has is an anxiety disorder with occasional bouts of depression as well.

And what you're doing may be both a trigger and accelerant for her issues.

 

You have a right to have the issues in your marriage addressed and to work on ways the relationship can improve for both of you.

 

You have a right to divorce your wife and pursue happiness with your OW or anyone else.

 

What is morally reprehensible is to string the two women along whilst you half-assed attempt both at the same time. Are you sleeping with both during this time period ?

 

Beach - your words "rang true and glowed like burning coal" (to quote Dylan for a moment) - yet reading them made me feel all squirmy. But I know you're right.

 

You had this professed "come to Jesus" moment months ago. What's changed?

 

Mr. Lucky