Grad school realistic possibility?

[lucy_in_disguise]

Have you considered online courses? I really enjoyed completing my last 2 years of college online and will do the same thing when I return to grad school.

 

This is an option I need to further explore. From a convenience perspective, of course that would be unbeatable.

 

I have felt that the programs I am aiming for may be dismissive of grades earned for online courses in the hard math subjects that I need, but I am not really familiar with my options.

 

If you don't mind, would you PM me the name of your university?

[lucy_in_disguise]

Thanks for the serious warnings about debt. Of course, I was aware of the woes of grad (and undergrad) students, but didn't reslize grad school debt practices were that exploitive. >6% interest rates for student loans in this interest rate environment is so sick.

 

I'm not sure how I will handle the financials of this endeavor. It doesn't look like a full ride is even an option for most (if not all) statistics masters programs in the US. I'm guessing statistics is considered more of a "professional" degree, so pay to play applies. Even at the top schools, Funding is reserved for phd candidates. Looking at the price tags for some programs, frankly, I don't understand how anyone can afford to go.

 

But finances aside... This is something I really want.

 

I had a long talk with my dad last night, who was a mathematician before succumbing to the pressures of the real world and going into IT. Despite his lifelong passion with math (he still writes scholarly articles) he has never been encouraging of higher education for us kids. He says academia is depressing - a ton of work for little recognition and not enough pay. That being said, he's supportive of my going back to school if its what I want to do. He suggested I try my hand at research to improve my application and offered to coach me.

[lucy_in_disguise]

YES. Taking on debt.

 

Perhaps that illustrates why most of my cautions concern loans and repayment. Even with a "full ride" scholarship, teaching appointments, and competitive external funding backing my research, I still racked up more student debt than I feel comfortable with today.

 

And oh, I took my debt before Congress abolished subsidized graduate loans and doubled the interest rate in 2011. So I didn't even borrow at the rates they are currently offering. It's an even worse deal now. (Sidebar: they also abolished several nationally-competitive research fellowships supporting doctoral research in the Social Sciences, earning my lifelong ire)

 

I had a full ride, and still took on loans. Sadly, this study further demonstrates that I'm not alone. Graduate School debt makes for some scarier stories than undergraduate debt. Undergrads have several forces mitigating how indebted they can become: school borrowing limits, required cosigners, low interest rates, subsidies, a greater number of grants and tuition waivers. Many colleges see graduate students simultaneously as a source of tuition income and a source of cheap labor.

 

Beware the school which pulls from both ends.

 

Only attending a school which gives some degree of graduate funding is not only about simple financial sense; in a sense the degree of funding they offer (or don't offer) betrays the attitude they have towards graduate education in general.

 

Nescafé, sorry to keep bugging you, but I have another question.

 

You say you regret taking on the debt. What would you have done differently to avoid it?

[d0nnivain]

Distance learning has lost it's stigma as not being a "real" school. Many well known brick & mortar programs offer quality education on line. You have to research the repuation of the institution. Some are better than others.

 

I think finishing what you need OL before you quit your job is the best way.

[Chocolat]

Many employers offer tuition reimbursement. That is one way to keep the debt down. I earned my master's at night and on the weekends. It was grueling, but my employer covered all of it, so I graduated debt-free.

[nescafe1982]

Nescafé, sorry to keep bugging you, but I have another question.

 

You say you regret taking on the debt. What would you have done differently to avoid it?

 

No bother at all!

 

Honestly, there are only two things I can think of that would have minimized my debt:

1) Left the first school I attended after the Masters and pursued a phD at an Ivy, and;

2) dumping the boyfriend I had when I began grad school (a chunk of the debt I incurred was because I was covering expenses for two people in a new city).

Well, I could have also:

3) not gone to grad school.

 

My personal and fiscal situation more or less made student debt a certainty. I won't get into it too much here... but in the end, I went to grad school despite that it made literally no financial sense to do: I needed to move away from where I was, I needed to be in a place where opportunities beyond service and retail were possible, and I needed to get some experience teaching and doing research. So the gains were primarily non-monetary... but I still feel confident that they were "gains," you know?

 

To a certain extent... grad school is one of those things that never makes sense to do: it's expensive, not only in terms of real costs but also opportunity costs for 2-3, or (in my case) 7 years. It's a gamble. It's not always a bad bet... but it's definitely good to go in with a plan and with a clear head. I went in with a "I need this, and I will borrow if I have to in order to make it work." Bad plan, in the end. And my credit score reflects it.

 

There are a couple things that, generally speaking, you can do though:

1) an MA program theoretically lasts only two years. you can save a surplus of money for a bit in order to minimize your need for debt;

2) you can downsize your housing costs by taking roommates, moving to a smaller place, or (if you go to school in a big city), commuting;

3) You can seek external funding. I'm only versed in this for PhDs but I venture there are a couple grants/fellowships that you could qualify for. Not only is it free money; if you get one it's also a real resume booster.

4) Most importantly, enter grad school with a solid vision of what you will do there: for instance, what you wish to write your thesis on, who you will work with, etc. Have this mapped out. That minimizes the possibility of snags which lengthen your time to degree later. Networking in key for this last one.

 

Wish i could be more helpful than this. The reality is that while some students find cool ways to avoid debt entirely (for instance, their employer pays for school, which is the absolute best case scenario), borrowing cannot always be avoided. But careful planning and budgeting BEFORE you go can minimize how much a stay at grad school negatively impacts your wallet.

 

And in the end, it is sort of an investment. You pay down now, for hopes of higher returns later. The trick is to know whether the degree you want is worth the initial investment or not.

[lucy_in_disguise]

Nescafé, thanks for sharing that context and for all the advice.

 

Looking into course descriptions at specific programs, I've realized a masters in stats would be a waste of time given my familiarity with te material. I think an Econ phd is more up my alley, but having analyzed the costs and timeline of meeting the requirements of admissions, I unfortunately have to conclude that that ship has sailed for me.

 

If I went started on a rampage now to prove to grad school admissions committees I belong in their programs, the earliest semester I could realistically begin school is fall 2016. By then, I will be 30. Did I mention I also want 3-4 kids?

 

The good news is, I don't think landing the type of job I think I want (more statistical analysis, less finance) should be as hard as I am making it out. I plan to focus on that instead of fantasizing about going back in time to make amends for my past choices.

[jonsnuh]

Many employers offer tuition reimbursement. That is one way to keep the debt down. I earned my master's at night and on the weekends. It was grueling, but my employer covered all of it, so I graduated debt-free.

 

How'd you convince your employer to do so? Was it a large firm?

[nescafe1982]

 

Looking into course descriptions at specific programs, I've realized a masters in stats would be a waste of time given my familiarity with the material..

 

I think you've thought this through very well. Of course, I never want to discourage people from pursuing their dreams in education... but the best way to think about whether or not to go back to school is to think about what it will do for you after graduation.

 

It sounds to me like you have other (better!) plans.

 

For what it's worth, if you want to learn the material (and the piece of paper which is the diploma was secondary to this), you can pick up materials and read up on your own! Heck, so much of grad school is auto-didactic anyway. You can likely find course syllabi for the classes you would take on the web.... just pick up the books and study through them yourself!

 

I do this whenever I need something new to read.

 

Also, MIT has a whole lot of lectures available on cool topics here: Courses | MIT OpenCourseWare | Free Online Course Materials

 

These are undergraduate courses... but I thought I'd share in case anyone finds them interesting.