AdrianCrawley Posted May 4, 2014 Posted May 4, 2014 Interesting post ..however I have a problem getting rid of men I am not interested in. These are not bad boys. No sex involved. Yeah, they're like lice. OR... like children. A man won't ask you for anything, he'll show what he's offering, and move on if you're not interested. It is clear for him he is not needed. Good or bad, it makes no difference. Well, not that I'd care, I've out of the dating market for some time.
AdrianCrawley Posted May 4, 2014 Posted May 4, 2014 Adrian I like your name for specific reason Now for what you say it might be true but then each man has his own specific version of "being needed". Thank you. It depends. My philosophy is that I have something valuable to offer: myself and everything I'm capable of for the right person. If I don't see that person needing me, I take off. No use trying to fill something which is already full.
AdrianCrawley Posted May 4, 2014 Posted May 4, 2014 Bottom line, girls, it's exactly what I'm telling you, the others just said it in different ways: men will not stay with women that don't need them. Unless they have some problems (the "will you be my mommy ?" kind of problems).
bluegreen Posted May 4, 2014 Posted May 4, 2014 Yes there is difference between from time to time and never needing someone
AdrianCrawley Posted May 4, 2014 Posted May 4, 2014 He isn't speaking for all men. I want someone who brings something to the table, loves relationships that are "inter-dependent", has her own thing going on, has a life / love were sharing, brings out the best in me, challenges me, etc. and wants / needs me to do the same in return. Riiight...
shet Posted May 5, 2014 Posted May 5, 2014 Be honest about what you mean by independent. I've never known any man including myself who objects to a woman with a life of her own. I've known a few who complained about ones without lives of their own. Being able to care for yourself is a basic component of any romantic relationship; I've known unemployed couples who met at the benefits office, both of them still looked after their own interests, if you don't have that, you aren't meeting a partner, you're picking up a care duty. I honestly can't think of any circumstance where someone not "independent" will survive in a relationship beyond a few weeks (this is not to say a relationship can not be soured over time by someone becoming dependent on the partner). So I have to question, what do you mean by independent? I'm asserting that you haven't had instances of men being threatened by your mere factual independence, your ability to function alone. Do you in fact mean something else by the term "independence"? Because I have known people male and female who have damaged mentalities for some reason, for whom the idea of independence goes far beyond the material of being able to support oneself, and into the realm of mental and emotional distance, the fortress of the self, and even cruelty. People who need to assert how little they need other people. People who will deliberately maintain false distance in order to keep what they believe is an upper hand. Particularly with women, talking about strength and independence is a red flag, to be honest. We're all ****ing strong and independent, we all look after ourselves, work, live, in this ****ty world. The only reason to say something like that is as a codeword for "I will be aloof, I will be cold, and I will put you through the wringer; look forward to me being busy, tired, washing my hair or out with others (when I'm not really) a lot". Which is no way to go into even wanting a relationship, let alone trying to have one, but a surprising number of women do so. If this is what you mean, and you are pre-emptively stating this on a forum before you even start dating looking for approval, I won't give it you. If you feel lonely and want to meet someone then Step A Number 1 is to admit that to yourself, cut the bull**** act and start behaving and actually being vulnerable, because, you are and that's what it's all about otherwise you'd be happy alone. If all you want to do is find someone to whom you can reinforce how little you need them because you are Strong And Independent, then you're what's wrong with the world. 1
joystickd Posted May 5, 2014 Posted May 5, 2014 Can a woman be too strong & too independent? Are strong, independent woman sexy?.or are they too difficult to nail down? Just wondering, I'm strong and independent and proud of it.... would this be a turn on for men or turn off? What do you mean by strong? Independence no but strength in a sense yes. Independent women are not the problem it's the women that are not strong but unwilling to compromise in a relationship. There are situations that either the man or woman has to defer to the partner because they are either have more experience or better able to acquire the knowledge necessary. Then their are other situations that a compromise must happen. What I see with "strong" women is this fear if they compromise that it's like submitting to the man. No matter what at some point in a relationship a compromise has to happen. Then the other thing is if a man is a strong man a "strong" woman is not a good fit for them especially if she is uncompromising. No man wants to bump heads over everything. 1
Imported Posted May 5, 2014 Posted May 5, 2014 Um.no ...... I was just wondering if they're a like minded people, who wanna strong woman to start a family with... who think like me? Some men want less learned woman but they're usually afraid of woman who have opinions of their own in case they're more intelligent than they are. I don't think most men are afraid of women with their own opinion or are of higher inelligence. Unless you're one of those constantly pointing at your mensa score or something. I understand you like to think of yourself as a strong, unique individual, just like everyone else. But I don't think starting a family is done with two people on a quest to show how strong and better they are than the other and that is what you sound like you are to me. Just sounds like there is take, no give. No bending, just breaking. The man is 31. But he's never been outta the country ( new zealand ) and I've been to.crazy places. My life interests his, but his life does not interest mine. Yeah, your cock sounds like it's bigger than his. You should find another guy. Seriously though, I have been around the world a bit myself. However, I have never considered to look at a girl with less respect because she hasn't done the same or better. 1
Woggle Posted May 5, 2014 Posted May 5, 2014 Most men like a woman that can stand on her own two but most men don't like feeling disposable in a relationship and I imagine most women don't. People don't go around telling their friends or anybody else how much they don't need them but in relationships we are supposed treat people like something we can just take or leave and that would not be what I would want. 1
JamesM Posted May 5, 2014 Posted May 5, 2014 Most men like a woman that can stand on her own two but most men don't like feeling disposable in a relationship and I imagine most women don't. People don't go around telling their friends or anybody else how much they don't need them but in relationships we are supposed treat people like something we can just take or leave and that would not be what I would want. This. When you find someone that matches you in strength and independence, then you will both be happy. If you find someone who cannot handle you, then both of you will be unhappy. Woggle says it best. No one wants to feel undesired or unneeded in a relationship. Independence is great, but if you form a relationship with someone, then you both give up some of that and learn to get along. As for what men like or what women like, it is different. Many men will say that they want an independent woman (as some here have said), but when it comes down to it, they do not enjoy a person who treats them as unnecessary. 1
RonaldS Posted May 5, 2014 Posted May 5, 2014 After baby-sitting my XW for 14 years, strong and independent sounds very refreshing. Ideally, I would like a woman who does her own thing, has her own life, makes her own decisions, doesn't back down to me, walks confidently, etc....but then turns into a little kitten in bed. That's the winning combination.
Babolat Posted May 5, 2014 Posted May 5, 2014 (edited) Can a woman be too strong & too independent? Are strong, independent woman sexy?.or are they too difficult to nail down? Just wondering, I'm strong and independent and proud of it.... would this be a turn on for men or turn off? When i say independent i mean like, can look after themselves, a man is a great addition in their life but it doesn't mean that they're any less because they don't have one. They're strong well, well travelled, can hold their own in the world, career sorted etc...? Are these lovely qualities? Or is too much independence a bad thing. Strong and Independent are very attractive qualities in a woman for me. I've dated free spirits though, and I'm not sure they are "my type". I'm with StanMusial, Woggle and JamesM on this, be careful about "announcig" how independent you are, how strong you are. As a man, I like to take care of a woman and feel like I can, that she appreciates it, and to some degree, wants it. Edited May 5, 2014 by Babolat
Avery1623 Posted May 5, 2014 Posted May 5, 2014 (edited) Um.no I've been single for a long time and beginning to feel.proud of the length i still.find men that are clingy..a person who has been single for less than two years is not what I'm looking for. There is a guy whose been single for only two years but he's desperate to go out with me. So desperate he asked me to be his girlfriend through a text message. The man is 31. But he's never been outta the country ( new zealand ) and I've been to.crazy places. My life interests his, but his life does not interest mine. I was just wondering if they're a like minded people, who wanna strong woman to start a family with... who think like me? Some men want less learned woman but they're usually afraid of woman who have opinions of their own in case they're more intelligent than they are. Was I the only person extremely turned off by this? This doesn't strike me as the words of an independent confident woman. This strikes me as the words of a high maintenance, condescending and judgemental person with a checklist of ridiculous wants. Is a man that different if he has been single 22 months or 24 months? I would venture a guess more people are turned off by arrogance than confidence. Edited May 5, 2014 by Avery1623
Shepp Posted May 5, 2014 Posted May 5, 2014 In my experience, if a female labels herself "strong, independent", it is typically bad news. Most of the "strong personality" women I know, did indeed marry a guy that was more submissive. It works, but women who are "dating" don't like to hear it because they are not "attracted" to those types. At the end of the day, you want peace and harmony in your home... not oil and water. Yeah and if I was a submissive guy I wouldnt be after that kind of women who'd just push you around. But I know I can be as bullheaded as anyone, I don't want to live in a home that's peace and harmony but all yes shepp, no shepp, three bads full shepp. That's not what I want, I want an equal! Sure me and my gf clash all the time, have since we were 15 years old, even now we clash on stuff daily - how to chop carrots, where my car keys should be left, directions, MasterChef, wether washing up should be simulations to cooking(me) or left to afterwards(her), wether the babies look too cold in what theyre wearing(her) or too hot(me), and the old favourtie of wether that coats navy or black that happens every single time she wears the coat! I wouldn't have that any other way! She fights for what she believes in an to me that's attractive....I mean clearly she's wrong an all but it's still attractive! Maybe it's not 'peace and harmony' all the time but maybe I choose passion! It's not aout being under a strong, inderpendant women it's about be equal to her! (and of course I know up dudes who are too laid back for life who need there dynamic girlfriend to push them on and pull them along - if it works for them who's to knock it just cause it doesn't work for you, different people, with different personalities want different things, live and let live! I'm sure some girls want a strong man and some would probably prefer a submissive dude) Plus, putting it out there, my girlfriend would definitely label herself strong and inderpended - and she is strong, believe that, and independent in the sense we both do our own thing and what have you, but inderpendant In the sense she doesn't need me - not a chance! She probably genuinely needs me more than any other girl i've met would...she just wouldn't tell you that!
hasaquestion Posted May 5, 2014 Posted May 5, 2014 When i say independent i mean like, can look after themselves, a man is a great addition in their life but it doesn't mean that they're any less because they don't have one. They're strong well, well travelled, can hold their own in the world, career sorted etc...? Are these lovely qualities? Or is too much independence a bad thing. I would never enter a serious long-term relationship with a girl who "needs me". Its ugly as hell. Rather just be single. So yes those are not only endearing qualities but necessary qualities.
hasaquestion Posted May 5, 2014 Posted May 5, 2014 Bottom line, girls, it's exactly what I'm telling you, the others just said it in different ways: men will not stay with women that don't need them. Unless they have some problems (the "will you be my mommy ?" kind of problems). Not really true at all...
Frank2thepoint Posted May 5, 2014 Posted May 5, 2014 Can a woman be too strong & too independent? Are strong, independent woman sexy?.or are they too difficult to nail down? Just wondering, I'm strong and independent and proud of it.... would this be a turn on for men or turn off? When i say independent i mean like, can look after themselves, a man is a great addition in their life but it doesn't mean that they're any less because they don't have one. They're strong well, well travelled, can hold their own in the world, career sorted etc...? Are these lovely qualities? Or is too much independence a bad thing. Since the term "independent" can vary much among people, and even between genders, I will use Merriam Webster's definition: 1: not dependent: as b (1) : not requiring or relying on something else c (1) : not requiring or relying on others (as for care or livelihood) Using that as a guideline, an independent person does not need to rely on someone else, whether financially, emotionally, spiritually, or physically. I am currently independent. I have a career, I live on my own, I am not in a relationship. I can do as I please (within the confines of laws and mores of course). But once I would be in a relationship with a woman, I would lose my independence. This is definitely not negative. Because this is a voluntary trade off. There are certain obligations I would have to uphold to maintain the relationship, such as spending time with her, compromising for the relationship (not hanging out with friends in order to take care of the woman if she is sick). Again, I choose this. From the loss of my independence (and becoming dependent), I gain something even more valuable. The companionship of a woman. So for me, independence is when a person has no need for anyone else but themselves. If a woman says she is independent, good for her, but I automatically assume she means to stay single and does not want a relationship. She is self-sufficient. Now if you venture into the territory of saying "I am an independent woman, but want a man to share my independence", that's an oxymoron, because wanting someone in your life, even to share your interests, you are already dependent. You are depending on the other person to be present to partake in whatever adventures you have in mind. 2
TheGuard13 Posted May 5, 2014 Posted May 5, 2014 Strength and a desire to be independent are fine. There's such a thing as too strong (read: stubborn). Everything in moderation.
JamesM Posted May 5, 2014 Posted May 5, 2014 But once I would be in a relationship with a woman, I would lose my independence. This is definitely not negative. Because this is a voluntary trade off. There are certain obligations I would have to uphold to maintain the relationship, such as spending time with her, compromising for the relationship (not hanging out with friends in order to take care of the woman if she is sick). Again, I choose this. From the loss of my independence (and becoming dependent), I gain something even more valuable. The companionship of a woman. So for me, independence is when a person has no need for anyone else but themselves. If a woman says she is independent, good for her, but I automatically assume she means to stay single and does not want a relationship. She is self-sufficient. Bingo. And when you tell a man or a woman that "I don't need you, I am independent" then you have basically said you don't need a relationship with that person. When two people build a successful marriage or relationship, then two independent people merge together and work as one to create a better team. Neither is independent and both function even better together. Does that mean you give up your independence when married? To a degree yes. Is that a bad thing? Not if you love and trust that person. If a woman told me that she didn't need a man, then I would assume that she didn't want a relationship. Needing a relationship and a man (or woman) is different than being needy.
Andy_K Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 The trouble is, women who describe themselves as 'strong and proud' often have a lot of other closely related traits which put men off, but like to blame it on the independence. Good traits: Independent Confident Determination/willpower Lack of insecurities Bad traits: overbearing Lacking in empathy, little ability or desire to see anyone else's point of view. Stubborn Selfish or self centred. Argumentative Short tempered Ruthless If you have the first set without the second, that's great.
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