"real" reconciliation

[joanofark]

How should a WS handle this situation. A long term PA with multiple ddays. BS decides to stay and R, except the WS is in a false R whereas they keep the affair going for another year. The WS then decides to end the A and work on marriage. Should the WS come clean about the A post dday or just let it be and hope no proof surfaces? Would the BS be more likely to be on board with a "real" R knowing it is definitely over for good with a confession that it previously was not?

[Clay]

Real Recovery only happens with Real Honesty.

 

I do not recommend anyone stay with a cheater. Its just my personal opinion but once you stay the next time they cheat its on them.

 

Clay

[anne1707]

Complete honesty and transparency is the only way you will stand a chance at a true reconciliation.

 

Under the circumstances described, serious work is required to salvage the marriage. That can only happen through full disclosure.

[Goodbye]

Well, it is a pretty bad scenario with that many d-days.

 

But...I'd think if you tell your spouse you have a confession, and then provide the whole truth and apologies, and what you are willing to do to reconcile, well, that is your only real chance. The WS would probably appreciate unsolicited honesty more than another D-day down the road, even if the A is over.

 

Still, don't get your hopes up.

[RightThere]

How should a WS handle this situation. A long term PA with multiple ddays. BS decides to stay and R, except the WS is in a false R whereas they keep the affair going for another year. The WS then decides to end the A and work on marriage. Should the WS come clean about the A post dday or just let it be and hope no proof surfaces? Would the BS be more likely to be on board with a "real" R knowing it is definitely over for good with a confession that it previously was not?

 

Just because the PA is over, doesn't mean "real" reconciliation has started.

 

Real reconciliation begins when both people are honest and committed to the marriage. Multiple D-Days and continuing to lie to the BS about when the affair ended is not the beginning of real reconciliation.

 

It's blip in the radar. Nothing more. Fake reconciliation is still going on. The BS is probably confused as to some things and actions over the past year during fake reconciliation that can only be answered with the truth about the PA continuing during that time.

 

Confession needs to happen regardless. Might result in the BS saying it's over, but there is no real reconciliation going on right now, no matter what the WS thinks.

[nightmare01]

Any reconciliation that is not based on TRUTH is not actual reconciliation... its just manipulation instead.

 

Lying, whether its by omission or outright, is about controlling the actions of the one being lied to. Not giving this information essentially tricks the BS into staying in a relationship that is based on falsehood.

 

The complete truth must be told.

[joanofark]

so basically without a confession regarding the entire affair from day one until the end, reconciliation doesn't occur? is it just acceptance without full truth?

[nightmare01]

so basically without a confession regarding the entire affair from day one until the end, reconciliation doesn't occur? is it just acceptance without full truth?

 

I wouldnt even call it acceptance because the BS doesnt know what they are accepting.

[BetrayedH]

so basically without a confession regarding the entire affair from day one until the end, reconciliation doesn't occur? is it just acceptance without full truth?

 

It's interesting that you mention acceptance. Of the five stages of grief, denial is the first and acceptance is the last. In the early stages, it's common for a betrayed spouse to be afraid to even ask questions for the fear of starting arguments and sabotaging their fragile marriage. A BS commonly is full of fear about their wayward leaving since they obviously already have a foot out the door. They are fearful of their world crumbling even further. There's a lot of denial about the significance of what's happened as they just want to reassemble the pieces of their broken marriage.

 

But eventually a BS moves out of denial and starts to grow courage and come to grips with the reality and significance of what's happened and start to ask questions. It can take years of processing the affair, asking the same questions repeatedly, thinking about it non-stop, losing sleep, and so forth to truly reach acceptance of it all. And for a spouse that's reconciling, they're doing it all for the love of their wayward. Because they were successfully lied to, they question their own ability to discern the truth about anything. Self-doubt takes years to repair. It is remarkably cruel to have them go through all of this only to have them gain acceptance of yet another ginormous lie.

 

For another perspective on this, I recommend you read the thread pinned at the top of this forum, Things That Every WS Needs To Know. Pay particular attention to Joseph's Letter, which helps explain why a BS may desperately need the details.

[badkarma2013]

Originally Posted by joanofark View Post

so basically without a confession regarding the entire affair from day one until the end, reconciliation doesn't occur? is it just acceptance without full truth?

I wouldnt even call it acceptance because the BS doesnt know what they are accepting.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by purplesorrow View Post

No, it doesn't nor did I imply it did. But people do have a right to forgive if they choose without ridicule. Your path worked for you and that is great. That doesn't mean it is the only path. I am working on forgiveness, for myself but I am divorcing. I can't carry this the rest of my life.

I agree...R in some cases works...again after my nightmare,there was NO WAY I could forget much less forgive to even phantom the thought of R.

 

MY best friend from my college days is in his 2nd yr of R...It seems his WW is doing the WS script to the tee....GREAT

 

However,he triggers several times a week is UP and DOWN....has constant trust issues( which i believe he will have from now on) his self esteem is shot...and is happy one minute and crys the next.....FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WHY?

 

Research states only 15-20% of BHs can reconcile and stay in a relative stable marriage....flip side is 80-85% of BH divorce...

[purplesorrow]

ummm, do you have a point here?

[dichotomy]

How should a WS handle this situation. A long term PA with multiple ddays. BS decides to stay and R, except the WS is in a false R whereas they keep the affair going for another year. The WS then decides to end the A and work on marriage. Should the WS come clean about the A post dday or just let it be and hope no proof surfaces? Would the BS be more likely to be on board with a "real" R knowing it is definitely over for good with a confession that it previously was not?

 

 

I suspect it will come out sometime....

 

I can't imagine he would stay again - but who knows your BS better than you? Why did he stay through multiple dDays?

Edited May 1, 2014 by dichotomy

[joanofark]

@dichotomy you edited before i could answer lol

i suspect it would surface eventually as well. I assume if the lies are good enough, they are believed.

[Hardgrind]

I'm speaking as a BH who is currently trying to R with WW. For us it is only 3 months since DDay, the PA lasted 4 months before I exposed it but in my gut I knew something was wrong almost as soon as it started.

 

My biggest struggle is allowing myself to believe the A has actually ended. My WW is smart and I have no doubt she could hide the A post-DDay much better than she did prior to DDay. With as easily as new phones and new e-mail accounts can be set up there is almost no way to be 100 % sure nothing is still going on.

 

So the question to consider is after multiple prior DDays and a year of false R, what can the WS do to convince the BS that the upcoming DDay will be the last one, that the A is truly over and that any future R will be true?

 

I would encourage being honest and confessing, but have a plan in place first for how to regain the trust of the BS assuming they don't call it quits. It will be neither fast nor easy.

[jnel921]

I'm speaking as a BH who is currently trying to R with WW. For us it is only 3 months since DDay, the PA lasted 4 months before I exposed it but in my gut I knew something was wrong almost as soon as it started.

 

My biggest struggle is allowing myself to believe the A has actually ended. My WW is smart and I have no doubt she could hide the A post-DDay much better than she did prior to DDay. With as easily as new phones and new e-mail accounts can be set up there is almost no way to be 100 % sure nothing is still going on.

 

So the question to consider is after multiple prior DDays and a year of false R, what can the WS do to convince the BS that the upcoming DDay will be the last one, that the A is truly over and that any future R will be true?

 

I would encourage being honest and confessing, but have a plan in place first for how to regain the trust of the BS assuming they don't call it quits. It will be neither fast nor easy.

 

It's hard to trust. Especially if the BS was the one who uncovered the A or if it was exposed by someone else other than the WS. Obviously if the truth didn't come from these sources how long would have the lie lasted.

 

This was something that I had to struggle with since DDay over a year and a half ago.

 

Since then my H has been honest. The choice to stay was hard for me since this is my second M and my first one ended in D due to infidelity. But I did feel that my WH was remorseful and more than willing to tell me all that I needed to hear. I do think he tried to make some things sound worse than they were as not to hurt my feelings, but it told him I didn't beleive that. He was a totally different person in this A. Someone he obviously wasn't with me.

 

He has changed. But would I know if he was up to things? Probably not. He works at night and if he took off I wouldn't know. I do have a GPS on his phone so I would know where he was but since he is a cop that could be anywhere for any reason.

 

My heart has to trust again. He has regained a lot of that I have to say. If he ever hurt me again I would leave. No if ands or buts. Been through enough and don't need to live the rest of my life unhappy if that is the case.

[fellini]

If there are multiple ddays, there is no R, false or otherwise. Ddays means just that, anew.

 

So R was never really on. Im not going to dwell on the "truth be told" theme once again.

 

Let's see if I can say this in a clear way: R doesn't just happen because you say it's happening. If either of the partners is NOT trying (on the one hand) to accept the past and work through it, and (on the other hand) is still engaged in an affair, there is NO R.

 

R begins with what is going on in your head. This includes what is going on in the BS's head. There is no point in talking R (reconciliation) if the BS is still in the early stages of PTSD. For me, if that is the case, and multiple DDAYS means impossible to move forward, then we are talking about RECOVERY.

 

Reconciliation, the way I understand it, cannot happen BEFORE recovery.

 

That said, NO, I do not believe that Reconciliation is "impossible" without 100% truth. I think truth begins and is really important in reconciliation. But do you HAVE to go back and "confess" sins prior to this, no. The amount of information that each BS asks is particular. If, however, he asks, then yes, if you are reconciling, you tell him. But a blanket statement that suggests that it is impossible to reconcile without 100% truth I don't buy.

[harrybrown]

If your roles were reversed, and your spouse cheated and then went underground, what would you want? Would you want to know?

 

How do you feel about your spouse now? Do you think you can do the hard work to help your spouse heal?

[Fluttershy]

This is a mess. And the only thing you have control over is you. There is a train of thought that if you do the work to change than confession is an unnecesary cruelness. I have yet to hear an actual convincing arguement on this. To me it seems like keeping a partner under false pretense and a sham. I honestly can't see how the wayward can be a truly authentic person and the marriage be an even 50/50 with that sort of deception in place. There will always be a parenthisis after each statement. This isn't the same as not telling your spouse you ate the rest of the cake in the fridge. I think if a BS or regualr S says they would rather not know is that they want an unspoken DADT and to keep the status quo. And neither of those are healthy.

 

So after all that. I believe gettig it all out there and bein honest is the best. For everyone. It gives yourself a real chance at starting over and being authentic and gives the BS a chance to see all the cards and make an informed descision.

[nightmare01]

This is a mess. And the only thing you have control over is you. There is a train of thought that if you do the work to change than confession is an unnecesary cruelness. I have yet to hear an actual convincing arguement on this. To me it seems like keeping a partner under false pretense and a sham. I honestly can't see how the wayward can be a truly authentic person and the marriage be an even 50/50 with that sort of deception in place. There will always be a parenthisis after each statement. This isn't the same as not telling your spouse you ate the rest of the cake in the fridge. I think if a BS or regualr S says they would rather not know is that they want an unspoken DADT and to keep the status quo. And neither of those are healthy.

 

So after all that. I believe gettig it all out there and bein honest is the best. For everyone. It gives yourself a real chance at starting over and being authentic and gives the BS a chance to see all the cards and make an informed descision.

 

I think ALL THE TRUTH has to be available to the BS. The general frame work of the affair has to be confessed. Enough has to be told so the BS knows what to ask about. In other words, how does a BS know what he does not know? How could a BS ask about it then? So enough has to be confessed so the BS can ask for more details if he/she needs them.

[harrybrown]

@dichotomy you edited before i could answer lol

i suspect it would surface eventually as well. I assume if the lies are good enough, they are believed.

 

 

It depends on the situation. Sometimes, you no longer believe anything that they say. I like to look for actions.

[joanofark]

It depends on the situation. Sometimes, you no longer believe anything that they say. I like to look for actions.

while no longer believing possibly anything the WS says if they are still in the A but you stay in "R" (recovery/reconciliation) how do you believe actions either? I mean if you have no idea the A is still on going, their actions could be enough to make the BS believe the WS 100%. But its still a lie. I don't know. I am a trusting person, but I am also smart enough to know it is way too easy to lie. Hope this makes sense. I just reread it ten times and i'm not sure lol

[Fluttershy]

I honestly don't think a person can fake R when the BS knows what real R looks like from either their own life experiences, research or just an general gut feeling. Real R takes time, tears, steps forward and back and complete transparency I believe from both spouses. It doesn't take long when you work on yourself as a BS to see through the crap. And tonrealize what behaviour is not acceptable in the proccess. I think most people who experience false R do so because they are still lost in all that happened. Or they are rugsweeping not dealin with it in a proactive way. Anoter poster thinks cheaters are master liar and manipulators. But they aren't all that way. I would say only the seriel ones. Most are ordinary people who once shared your values and still do often but have gone against their own conscience. Often it is a slippery slope situation. It is easy to decieve the person who loves you and that does not take a special lying skill.

 

So how do we know if our spouse is a regular good human who made a series of awful descision or a master liar who cares only about themselves? Details are Everything. As far as finding out the R was false and the A still on? Was there really R? Or was the A rugswept? And why believe the person now?

 

Because the only person who can change the WS is the WS. And full honesty, no matter how ugly, full trancparency, no gasligtning or manipulation. No blame shifting or minimizing. That can all go a long way for some people. And whether the M works or not it sure beats the hell out of the opposite behavior.

[Zenstudent]

That said, NO, I do not believe that Reconciliation is "impossible" without 100% truth. I think truth begins and is really important in reconciliation. But do you HAVE to go back and "confess" sins prior to this, no. The amount of information that each BS asks is particular. If, however, he asks, then yes, if you are reconciling, you tell him. But a blanket statement that suggests that it is impossible to reconcile without 100% truth I don't buy.

Which spouse should the BS in your opinion reconcile with then, the fake one or the real one?

[fellini]

Which spouse should the BS in your opinion reconcile with then, the fake one or the real one?

 

Reconciliation is about moving forward and creating a new functioning marriage.

The precondition to this is NOT that the WS tells every single last detail of the A. The precondition of reconciliation is that both spouses desire it, and do it. If a spouse says that he wants the slate clean of lies, then do that. If the spouse says he/she wants to stop the pursuit of the past and start pursuing the future, then do that. But in the end, NO, it is not 100% that the BS needs to know 100% of the truth of the affair. Even if it were possible.

 

Now I know you will tell me that a new functioning marriage cannot ever be attained unless the WS reveals everything. On this NO ONE is going to agree, so it's a waste of time debating it.

 

The requirement of 100% disclosure of 100% of the details of the past is completely a personal issue. No one has a monopoly knowledge on the future of OTHER PEOPLE's marriages. Anyone who tries to sell the idea that ONLY A can produce B are imposing what they know for themselves on the rest of us. It's a well-known strategy in LS and im pretty much done debating it and trying to defend against more pluralistic and flexible ideas about what can and cannot happen for X,Y,Z to work.

[joanofark]

well, whether or not the post affair is revealed to the BS by the WS, one could only assume that it is still not "true" R if the WS still contacts the AP. What a mess is right.