RightThere Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 Here is a stat to cover that previous stat: 80% of those who divorce during an affair regret the decision. Who regrets it? I'd say the WS may feel this way (because they are often doing it to either chase after their OM/OW, or they were too focused on the negative in their marriage). I doubt very much that stat is at 80% for the BS. 1
Striver Posted May 2, 2014 Posted May 2, 2014 Who regrets it? I'd say the WS may feel this way (because they are often doing it to either chase after their OM/OW, or they were too focused on the negative in their marriage). I doubt very much that stat is at 80% for the BS. The BS is not having an affair, so they would not be divorcing during (his or her) affair. I would guess that's for the WS.
fellini Posted May 2, 2014 Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) Perhaps some terms are not being used across all posters for the same meaning. For me Divorce vs. Reconciliation is only one option, it is not "the decision" to make. Surely we have among all the issues, the following: Divorce. (Walk away, never speak to him/her again) i.e. Deal BreakerWeighing Divorce vs. Reconciliation. (You're unsure, you need to think about it. Maybe you thought it was a deal-breaker but now you want to make sure)Delay decision. (Shirley Glass' "Give it 3 months before making any decisions")Recovery (Not the same as reconciliation, with or without divorce - more difficult with divorce)ForgivingTemporary separationStructured separationReconciliation (rebuilding the marriage)Separation/Divorce after period of reconciliation (failed reconciliation) I'm happy to add to that list! Im not sure what people who choose straight divorce do about recovery, and about forgiving if a divorce is not truly agreed upon (i.e. the WS wants to try to work things out and the BS not) how is the BS going to get through recovery / closure IF (and it doesnt always happen this way) the WS even with D doesn't want to participate in the BS achieving closure. It would be interesting to hear from some of the more "decided" BS that there is no point in Reconciliation, how THEY achieved recovery, whether they achieved forgiveness (of themselves or their WS's), and at what point they felt they had moved on in the mess. In my case (1 year since DDAY), for example the process has so far been: 1) Delay Decision (3 months, then extended 3 more) 2) Recovery during this time 3) Weighing Divorce vs. reconciliation 4) Structured (1 month) separation 5) Choosing reconciliation 6) Currently in: Separation/Divorce after period of reconciliation (It's been just one year. I cannot in my heart say we are past the worst yet. On the right path, but there are still some questions in my mind. None in hers. Edited May 2, 2014 by fellini 1
badkarma2013 Posted May 2, 2014 Posted May 2, 2014 Perhaps some terms are not being used across all posters for the same meaning. For me Divorce vs. Reconciliation is only one option, it is not "the decision" to make. Surely we have among all the issues, the following: Divorce. (Walk away, never speak to him/her again) i.e. Deal BreakerWeighing Divorce vs. Reconciliation. (You're unsure, you need to think about it. Maybe you thought it was a deal-breaker but now you want to make sure)Delay decision. (Shirley Glass' "Give it 3 months before making any decisions")Recovery (Not the same as reconciliation, with or without divorce - more difficult with divorce)ForgivingTemporary separationStructured separationReconciliation (rebuilding the marriage)Separation/Divorce after period of reconciliation (failed reconciliation) I'm happy to add to that list! Im not sure what people who choose straight divorce do about recovery, and about forgiving if a divorce is not truly agreed upon (i.e. the WS wants to try to work things out and the BS not) how is the BS going to get through recovery / closure IF (and it doesnt always happen this way) the WS even with D doesn't want to participate in the BS achieving closure. It would be interesting to hear from some of the more "decided" BS that there is no point in Reconciliation, how THEY achieved recovery, whether they achieved forgiveness (of themselves or their WS's), and at what point they felt they had moved on in the mess. In my case (1 year since DDAY), for example the process has so far been: 1) Delay Decision (3 months, then extended 3 more) 2) Recovery during this time 3) Weighing Divorce vs. reconciliation 4) Structured (1 month) separation 5) Choosing reconciliation 6) Currently in: Separation/Divorce after period of reconciliation (It's been just one year. I cannot in my heart say we are past the worst yet. On the right path, but there are still some questions in my mind. None in hers. Outstanding post......Thanks for your insight!
fellini Posted May 2, 2014 Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) Outstanding post......Thanks for your insight! Thanks, karma! I should add strategies that we used: Becoming informed. (Internet, literature on infidelity, forums like LS) and OF COURSE!!! ICMC because this is an enormous source for making the decision. And I cannot rightly say that things would have been the same had I not read: Shirley GlassMichelle LangleyEsther PerelMira Hirshenbaum I read each of those at least twice during the 3 month/ 6 months phase of recovering from trauma. I found them richer than our few MC sessions. Our MC told me my approach (reading up on infidelity) was too slow an approach. HA I read over 14 texts in under 3 weeks. I got more out of them than a 1 hour session shared with my lying WS in the two visits we had! (Also, the issue for me is living in a non-english speaking country and a completely catholic based one where issues of marriage are tightly controlled and lacking in complexity when compared to other countries. So I was stuck trying to get informed and my only fast, good, complex source was Amazon.com and a Kindle. In as much as these resources aid / influence our decisions, I would say, "Becoming informed about all the issues" forms part of a decision model Edited May 2, 2014 by fellini
Owl Posted May 2, 2014 Posted May 2, 2014 Because betrayal is forever. It is for you....because you never got past it. For you...it's still completely and totally relevent to your relationship today. You never healed from it. She's not still f*ing him...but she may as well be, because she'll never be forgiven for it by you. Her contribution to the destruction of your relationship occurred decades ago. It started there...and she ended it there. The continued degredation of the situation isn't being perpetrated by her any longer at this point. Not everyone carries a grudge to their grave, when the other party stopped wronging them decades ago. IF the other party can demonstrate true remorse, true understanding of the depth of the grievance they committed, and demonstrate that they learned from it and will not commit that grievance again...they can be forgiven, and that betrayal can become a thing of the past for both parties involved. Forgiveness requres work on BOTH parts. The betrayer, and the betrayed. If only one side does their part...forgiveness (and reconciliation) remains impossible, and inconceiveable. I know you're not gonna like this post...and you're going to do your damndest to pick it apart...but it's really not for you. It's meant for others who actually might get some use out of it. 3
BHsigh Posted May 2, 2014 Posted May 2, 2014 Thanks, karma! I should add strategies that we used: Becoming informed. (Internet, literature on infidelity, forums like LS) and OF COURSE!!! ICMC because this is an enormous source for making the decision. And I cannot rightly say that things would have been the same had I not read: Shirley GlassMichelle LangleyEsther PerelMira Hirshenbaum I read each of those at least twice during the 3 month/ 6 months phase of recovering from trauma. I found them richer than our few MC sessions. Our MC told me my approach (reading up on infidelity) was too slow an approach. HA I read over 14 texts in under 3 weeks. I got more out of them than a 1 hour session shared with my lying WS in the two visits we had! (Also, the issue for me is living in a non-english speaking country and a completely catholic based one where issues of marriage are tightly controlled and lacking in complexity when compared to other countries. So I was stuck trying to get informed and my only fast, good, complex source was Amazon.com and a Kindle. In as much as these resources aid / influence our decisions, I would say, "Becoming informed about all the issues" forms part of a decision model This is another good post to show some great sources for perspective, and I will reiterate reading up on this issue. Though personally I would recommend skipping Hirshenbaum, she excuses the affairs too much in my mind, and I've only read article on the other two, but Glass's was a good read.
fellini Posted May 2, 2014 Posted May 2, 2014 Appreciated this post on so many levels. Have been dying to know, but never dared ask why so many BS's (badkarma and one or two others aside, because they explains how their personal case had them reach that decision) come in here so clearly still hurting, and insisting that "once a cheat, always a cheat" "grow some balls and divorce" "kick her on the street" "get a lawyer, she cheated, there is nothing left to say"... If they didn't recover, why would I want to follow that path? If they didn't consider reconciliation an option, fine, but why can't I and how can they have an opinion on something they haven't done? As you are well aware, the impatience with alternatives to D can get so nasty that it leads to banning and erasing of posts. When one BS actually told me that I deserved to have my spouse have an affair because of my views, I could see my days were numbered in LS. It is for you....because you never got past it. For you...it's still completely and totally relevent to your relationship today. You never healed from it. She's not still f*ing him...but she may as well be, because she'll never be forgiven for it by you. Her contribution to the destruction of your relationship occurred decades ago. It started there...and she ended it there. The continued degredation of the situation isn't being perpetrated by her any longer at this point. Not everyone carries a grudge to their grave, when the other party stopped wronging them decades ago. IF the other party can demonstrate true remorse, true understanding of the depth of the grievance they committed, and demonstrate that they learned from it and will not commit that grievance again...they can be forgiven, and that betrayal can become a thing of the past for both parties involved. Forgiveness requres work on BOTH parts. The betrayer, and the betrayed. If only one side does their part...forgiveness (and reconciliation) remains impossible, and inconceiveable. I know you're not gonna like this post...and you're going to do your damndest to pick it apart...but it's really not for you. It's meant for others who actually might get some use out of it. 1
badkarma2013 Posted May 2, 2014 Posted May 2, 2014 some Great post from all today....As for my own situation .....ive been in IC since D-DAY and did not quit after my D... I am just now knowing that I must find Forgivness for my WW and the Terrible things she and the OM did to 2 familes...... But the Forgiviness will be for ME...NOT HER... I will NEVER FORGET.....EVER But im learning ...if I am going to find any peace at all..I must forgive her. 1
badkarma2013 Posted May 2, 2014 Posted May 2, 2014 Just an Side Note....I ran into the Oms ex wife last P.M. She asked how i was doing and i did the same..... She looked me in the eyes and said" I want to thank you so much for telling me the Truth about my ex and your ex wife......and I hate you at the same time." I strangely Understood her..... 1
badkarma2013 Posted May 2, 2014 Posted May 2, 2014 can you trust and forget? Trust is shaky these days....I will Never forget ......ever! Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it” George Santayana
Owl Posted May 2, 2014 Posted May 2, 2014 some Great post from all today....As for my own situation .....ive been in IC since D-DAY and did not quit after my D... I am just now knowing that I must find Forgivness for my WW and the Terrible things she and the OM did to 2 familes...... But the Forgiviness will be for ME...NOT HER... I will NEVER FORGET.....EVER But im learning ...if I am going to find any peace at all..I must forgive her. Excellent points. I too have not forgotten. But it's not something I dwell on, either. It's not on my mind all the time, nor does it bring the same overwhelming pain that it did in the first few years post d-day. It's in the past. I haven't forgotten all the other horrible things I've lived through in my past either. But they don't cripple me today. They don't dictate my present. They're where they're supposed to be...in the past. Forgotten? No. Relevent to today? No. Simply part of the past, and nothing more. 2
Fluttershy Posted May 2, 2014 Posted May 2, 2014 No one forgets and there is no need for emphasis on that. My H and I are happily married but it isn't like him I was asked "Have you ever been cheated on?" I'd have to struggle to remember the answer. Not humanly possible. For me "forgive and forget" is as Owl describes his feelings. The affair is not important in our relationship or relevant to who I am today. I am not defined by it. I don't indentify with myself as the "wife who was cheated on" or as a victim. Whether you stay married or not I think the healthiest path is to get to that level of "forgetting". Not being the person who tells anyone and everyone how they were cheated on for years. You know the people I'm talking about. Where every related or barely related topic brings out their story. Even if those people divorced and usually they are the divorced ones they haven't moved on and are still living daily in being betrayed. Let me clarify I am talking years out. My example though not related to infidelity is a couple I knew and now know seperately. She basically took half and the kid from him after a four year marriage. She was done and had very valid reasons but i felt for er they were just excuses because she was "out of love". He was destroyed and most people rallied about him. But six years have passed since their divorce was settled and he still rants every chance he gets about how she screwed him over and how she is the devil incarnate. His story has even become a fish tale and he has rewrote a lot of history too. He has had no meaningful relationships because he scares girls away with the baggage he won't put down. She on the otherhand is remarried and they are expecting their first. She actually did a lot of growing up and work on herself. I know for a fact she apologized and no longer takes child support and tries to give him lots of extra time with their kid. But his state of unforgiveness is hurting himself and has changed him. He would do well to stop livin in the past. 2
badkarma2013 Posted May 2, 2014 Posted May 2, 2014 No one forgets and there is no need for emphasis on that. My H and I are happily married but it isn't like him I was asked "Have you ever been cheated on?" I'd have to struggle to remember the answer. Not humanly possible. For me "forgive and forget" is as Owl describes his feelings. The affair is not important in our relationship or relevant to who I am today. I am not defined by it. I don't indentify with myself as the "wife who was cheated on" or as a victim. Whether you stay married or not I think the healthiest path is to get to that level of "forgetting". Not being the person who tells anyone and everyone how they were cheated on for years. You know the people I'm talking about. Where every related or barely related topic brings out their story. Even if those people divorced and usually they are the divorced ones they haven't moved on and are still living daily in being betrayed. Let me clarify I am talking years out. My example though not related to infidelity is a couple I knew and now know seperately. She basically took half and the kid from him after a four year marriage. She was done and had very valid reasons but i felt for er they were just excuses because she was "out of love". He was destroyed and most people rallied about him. But six years have passed since their divorce was settled and he still rants every chance he gets about how she screwed him over and how she is the devil incarnate. His story has even become a fish tale and he has rewrote a lot of history too. He has had no meaningful relationships because he scares girls away with the baggage he won't put down. She on the otherhand is remarried and they are expecting their first. She actually did a lot of growing up and work on herself. I know for a fact she apologized and no longer takes child support and tries to give him lots of extra time with their kid. But his state of unforgiveness is hurting himself and has changed him. He would do well to stop livin in the past. To:Fluttershy 1. I placed the "emphasis" there For Me...Not for You. 2. I am in IC and in the process of Forgivness.. 3. Your right ... I do not want to become that man.
Fluttershy Posted May 2, 2014 Posted May 2, 2014 To:Fluttershy 1. I placed the "emphasis" there For Me...Not for You. 2. I am in IC and in the process of Forgivness.. 3. Your right ... I do not want to become that man. But why te need to empahsize for yourself? You won't forget and you don't need to remind yourself that it just won't happen. It sounds like you are trying to work past this instead of rugsweeping your emotions. That is really good and I am glad. Many divorced people think the obly action needed is divorce. But when someone rips your heart out there is usually a lot more healing to take place. I think you are on te right path. You will survive this and you will be happy again. Don't give up. 2
drifter777 Posted May 2, 2014 Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) For many men reconciliation is a waste of emotional energy because they are trying to repair something that can't be repaired - trust and dignity. Notice I don't say ALL men. I say "many" but I'm starting to think it's really "most". We see a lot of posts from men who are still hurting decades after their WW's affair. With age comes wisdom, and maybe that wisdom removes the rose-colored glasses and let's his true feelings come through. Maybe it's because the kids are grown and the all-encompassing feeling of responsibility for his families well-being begins to wane and he no longer fears abandoning them or being abandoned. Those of you who define reconciliation as a noun are fooling yourselves. It is an ongoing process and it means very different things to most men. I reached the point some time ago where, although I didn't trust my wife, I didn't care if she cheated. I still don't. I'm confident I would catch her and divorce would now be an easy choice and, in my mind, settle an old score. I've accepted I can't change the past, and that she is sorry and would un-do it if she could. I've compartmentalized my feelings and stuffed them away. All of this is my definition of reconciliation so I guess that means reconciliation is indeed possible. But, clearly, for me it was a mistake to not divorce when this all happened. Do what I say, not what I do. I've learned from my mistakes and offer guidance based on my experiences. If one of my son's came to me and told me his wife cheated I would give him all the emotional support I could no matter what choice (D or R) he made. However, if he asked me for my advice I would tell him to divorce. I love my daughters-in-law and want my grandchildren to have a secure, loving family environment - and these are the reasons I would advocate for divorce. Seeing them start over instead of suffering through the drama of infidelity and attempting to R is an easy choice to me. I get to have my opinion. And I don't care who or how many of you want to flame me. I know what I'm espousing was right for me and is right for many BH's. A quick, clean break after infidelity gives a BH the best chance at personal recovery. I also think it's best for the children in every way. If you don't agree with my view, fine - via con dios. But don't tell me I'm wrong because how can the personal opinions I hold after a lifetime of experience be wrong? They aren't right for everyone, but they are right for me. And Owl: stop pontificating to me. You have your experiences and I have mine and they are wildly different. Edited May 2, 2014 by drifter777 3
badkarma2013 Posted May 2, 2014 Posted May 2, 2014 For many men reconciliation is a waste of emotional energy because they are trying to repair something that can't be repaired - trust and dignity. Notice I don't say ALL men. I say "many" but I'm starting to think it's really "most". We see a lot of posts from men who are still hurting decades after their WW's affair. With age comes wisdom, and maybe that wisdom removes the rose-colored glasses and let's his true feelings come through. Maybe it's because the kids are grown and the all-encompassing feeling of responsibility for his families well-being begins to wane and he no longer fears abandoning them or being abandoned. Those of you who define reconciliation as a noun are fooling yourselves. It is an ongoing process and it means very different things to most men. I reached the point some time ago where, although I didn't trust my wife, I didn't care if she cheated. I still don't. I'm confident I would catch her and divorce would now be an easy choice and, in my mind, settle an old score. I've accepted I can't change the past, and that she is sorry and would un-do it if she could. I've compartmentalized my feelings and stuffed them away. All of this is my definition of reconciliation so I guess that means reconciliation is indeed possible. But, clearly, for me it was a mistake to not divorce when this all happened. Do what I say, not what I do. I've learned from my mistakes and offer guidance based on my experiences. If one of my son's came to me and told me his wife cheated I would give him all the emotional support I could no matter what choice (D or R) he made. However, if he asked me for my advice I would tell him to divorce. I love my daughters-in-law and want my grandchildren to have a secure, loving family environment - and these are the reasons I would advocate for divorce. Seeing them start over instead of suffering through the drama of infidelity and attempting to R is an easy choice to me. I get to have my opinion. And I don't care who or how many of you want to flame me. I know what I'm espousing was right for me and is right for many BH's. A quick, clean break after infidelity gives a BH the best chance at personal recovery. I also think it's best for the children in every way. If you don't agree with my view, fine - via con dios. But don't tell me I'm wrong because how can the personal opinions I hold after a lifetime of experience be wrong? They aren't right for everyone, but they are right for me. And Owl: stop pontificating to me. You have your experiences and I have mine and they are wildly different. Thanks for this post.....I will always lean this way....Ill close with a piece of your quote...".But don't tell me I'm wrong because how can the personal opinions I hold after a lifetime of experience be wrong? They aren't right for everyone, but they are right for me."
Fluttershy Posted May 2, 2014 Posted May 2, 2014 For many men reconciliation is a waste of emotional energy because they are trying to repair something that can't be repaired - trust and dignity. Notice I don't say ALL men. I say "many" but I'm starting to think it's really "most". We see a lot of posts from men who are still hurting decades after their WW's affair. With age comes wisdom, and maybe that wisdom removes the rose-colored glasses and let's his true feelings come through. Maybe it's because the kids are grown and the all-encompassing feeling of responsibility for his families well-being begins to wane and he no longer fears abandoning them or being abandoned. Those of you who define reconciliation as a noun are fooling yourselves. It is an ongoing process and it means very different things to most men. I reached the point some time ago where, although I didn't trust my wife, I didn't care if she cheated. I still don't. I'm confident I would catch her and divorce would now be an easy choice and, in my mind, settle an old score. I've accepted I can't change the past, and that she is sorry and would un-do it if she could. I've compartmentalized my feelings and stuffed them away. All of this is my definition of reconciliation so I guess that means reconciliation is indeed possible. But, clearly, for me it was a mistake to not divorce when this all happened. Do what I say, not what I do. I've learned from my mistakes and offer guidance based on my experiences. If one of my son's came to me and told me his wife cheated I would give him all the emotional support I could no matter what choice (D or R) he made. However, if he asked me for my advice I would tell him to divorce. I love my daughters-in-law and want my grandchildren to have a secure, loving family environment - and these are the reasons I would advocate for divorce. Seeing them start over instead of suffering through the drama of infidelity and attempting to R is an easy choice to me. I get to have my opinion. And I don't care who or how many of you want to flame me. I know what I'm espousing was right for me and is right for many BH's. A quick, clean break after infidelity gives a BH the best chance at personal recovery. I also think it's best for the children in every way. If you don't agree with my view, fine - via con dios. But don't tell me I'm wrong because how can the personal opinions I hold after a lifetime of experience be wrong? They aren't right for everyone, but they are right for me. And Owl: stop pontificating to me. You have your experiences and I have mine and they are wildly different. There is a lot of good in this but we have all seen every single one of your posts. And we all see the bitterness and loathing and hatred. And btw, reconciliation wasn't a mistake it was a choice... At least on the internet we don't call mistakes choices we pretend their accidents but I digress... Anyways, you simply do not know how you would have been if you chose a different path. No one can. You might have been able to be happier than you are now or you still may have turned into a bitter man full of resentment. There are no guarantees or easy way out of this. And what everyone points out isn't that you are wrong (unless you make a broad sweeping genralizatations which you have curbed a lot.). It is that you and only you are responsible for your current happiness and state of mind. And wallowing in self pity because you feel you made the wrong descision for you is a choice. You are a slave to your feelings and emptions much like people who find themselves in affairs. You of course will either ignore or come back wth accusing me of being a cheater or other such nonsense. If you really want to help people then you need to stop with the doom and gloom of your own life and offer hope. Otherwise it is just more reconciliation bashing despite the details. And of course cheuvenism.
Owl Posted May 2, 2014 Posted May 2, 2014 Thanks for this post.....I will always lean this way....Ill close with a piece of your quote...".But don't tell me I'm wrong because how can the personal opinions I hold after a lifetime of experience be wrong? They aren't right for everyone, but they are right for me." The bolded part is part of my point...and pontification, apparently. I won't let anyone else tell me that I'm wrong, that my experience with reconciliation is wrong, or that my marriage today is in some fashion flawed because they experienced a different outcome than I did. Sour grapes is a futhermucker.
Fluttershy Posted May 2, 2014 Posted May 2, 2014 Thanks for this post.....I will always lean this way....Ill close with a piece of your quote...".But don't tell me I'm wrong because how can the personal opinions I hold after a lifetime of experience be wrong? They aren't right for everyone, but they are right for me." Just remember that this is the exact mindset that fuels AP and WS. I read it all the time on their side of things in defense of their actions. There is a balance between knowing you made the right descision or wrong one for you or stunting personal growth. I prefer the saying "would you rather be right or happy?" and if your mindset years and years down te road is stoping you from being happy it might be time to rethink your stance.
badkarma2013 Posted May 2, 2014 Posted May 2, 2014 There is a lot of good in this but we have all seen every single one of your posts. And we all see the bitterness and loathing and hatred. And btw, reconciliation wasn't a mistake it was a choice... At least on the internet we don't call mistakes choices we pretend their accidents but I digress... Anyways, you simply do not know how you would have been if you chose a different path. No one can. You might have been able to be happier than you are now or you still may have turned into a bitter man full of resentment. There are no guarantees or easy way out of this. And what everyone points out isn't that you are wrong (unless you make a broad sweeping genralizatations which you have curbed a lot.). It is that you and only you are responsible for your current happiness and state of mind. And wallowing in self pity because you feel you made the wrong descision for you is a choice. You are a slave to your feelings and emptions much like people who find themselves in affairs. You of course will either ignore or come back wth accusing me of being a cheater or other such nonsense. If you really want to help people then you need to stop with the doom and gloom of your own life and offer hope. Otherwise it is just more reconciliation bashing despite the details. And of course cheuvenism. Im very sorry to see you take this tact on your post. You seem to have a thread of tolerance in most... Again this is his OPINION and he has every right to post here...and by the way i lean heavily in that direction... we are ALL a slave to our emotions...if we let it happen.. he has a Right to bitter and you nor anyone has The right to criticize ...Disagree YES not condemn Im disappointed you consider him chauvinistic...ITs His opinion.. "You of course will either ignore or come back with accusing me of being a cheater " Since were throwing stones...WERE YOU?
badkarma2013 Posted May 2, 2014 Posted May 2, 2014 Owl's Avatar Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Midwest USA Posts: 11,519 Quote: Originally Posted by badkarma2013 View Post Thanks for this post.....I will always lean this way....Ill close with a piece of your quote...".But don't tell me I'm wrong because how can the personal opinions I hold after a lifetime of experience be wrong? They aren't right for everyone, but they are right for me." The bolded part is part of my point...and pontification, apparently. I won't let anyone else tell me that I'm wrong, that my experience with reconciliation is wrong, or that my marriage today is in some fashion flawed because they experienced a different outcome than I did. Sour grapes is a futhermucker. Your Arrogance here, Owl is appalling ...You have your on version of how to handle your own marriange I/Others have our own... everyone had their has their way to Cope...Neither R or D is wrong if you decide if thats whats best for you. "They aren't right for everyone, but they are right for me '....Its that why we are all here to learn?
Owl Posted May 2, 2014 Posted May 2, 2014 Owl's Avatar Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Midwest USA Posts: 11,519 Quote: Originally Posted by badkarma2013 View Post Thanks for this post.....I will always lean this way....Ill close with a piece of your quote...".But don't tell me I'm wrong because how can the personal opinions I hold after a lifetime of experience be wrong? They aren't right for everyone, but they are right for me." The bolded part is part of my point...and pontification, apparently. I won't let anyone else tell me that I'm wrong, that my experience with reconciliation is wrong, or that my marriage today is in some fashion flawed because they experienced a different outcome than I did. Sour grapes is a futhermucker. Your Arrogance here, Owl is appalling ...You have your on version of how to handle your own marriange I/Others have our own... everyone had their has their way to Cope...Neither R or D is wrong if you decide if thats whats best for you. "They aren't right for everyone, but they are right for me '....Its that why we are all here to learn? It's not arrogance. I know where my marriage is today...you, nor anyone else, cannot. I get heartily tired of folks trying to INSIST that it must be something other than what I know it is, simply because they say so. They can INSIST that true reconciliation is impossible all they want...I KNOW better, as I've experienced. That's not arrogance...that's knowledge gained through experience.
Fluttershy Posted May 2, 2014 Posted May 2, 2014 Im very sorry to see you take this tact on your post. You seem to have a thread of tolerance in most... Again this is his OPINION and he has every right to post here...and by the way i lean heavily in that direction... we are ALL a slave to our emotions...if we let it happen.. he has a Right to bitter and you nor anyone has The right to criticize ...Disagree YES not condemn Im disappointed you consider him chauvinistic...ITs His opinion.. "You of course will either ignore or come back with accusing me of being a cheater " Since were throwing stones...WERE YOU? My post had nothing to do with you bad, it was about a longtime poster that makes me incredibly sad because he won't take responsibility for his happiness. He is wrong when it comes to knowing how he would have been with a different choice. No one can know that for certaintiy unless they possess a crystal ball or a time machine that allows do overs. You can have an idea but you can't know. That sort of thinking is what causes people to chase rainbows and te whole grass is greener statement. But I am not sure why you find it so codemning. As you said, right to share our own opinion. But my opinion is based on his endless posts full of self loathing, bitterness and regret. How many of his past posts have you read? The comment was because he has accused me a time or two o veing a wayward because he doesn't agree with me. It' what people do around here when they want to discredit someone. Accuse them of being a wayward. I am not Nor have I even been close in any of my relationships. No plans to either not because i couldn't but because it is my choice not to. 2
badkarma2013 Posted May 2, 2014 Posted May 2, 2014 It's not arrogance. I know where my marriage is today...you, nor anyone else, cannot. I get heartily tired of folks trying to INSIST that it must be something other than what I know it is, simply because they say so. They can INSIST that true reconciliation is impossible all they want...I KNOW better, as I've experienced. That's not arrogance...that's knowledge gained through experience. Owl ONLY YOU know whats best for your and YOUR MARRIAGE..... You however DO NOT KNOW WHAT WAS BEST FOR ME OR OTHERS WHO D.... I dont no of nor have i SEEN a post insisting you made an MISTAKE.. All of us here KNOW the PAIN of trying to R.....As well as the PAIN OF D. I again applaude your efforts to R AND WISH YOU MUCH HAPPINESS.
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