Davey L Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 I read that suggestion a lot, but I know how unreliable a polygraph truly is, but actually that doesn't matter, my wife used to work in a psyc field and she knows how reliable they are and how easily they can be tricked. Just that belief in itself can throw off the results, if you're not nervous or afraid of your lies being picked up, it will throw off the machine, and excess nervousness can be picked up as guilt, even when telling the truth. Not to mention that she has always had this belief, so any refusal to take one will not look bad, as she had always mistrusted the polygraph. So yeah, I'm pretty much stuck. I guess the issue is not so much what she did, but whether she has been honest. A large crime confessed with remorse is more forgiveable than a small crime concealed.
fellini Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 (edited) To Owl and Fellini WE WILL NEVER AGREE ....However it does Not mean i do not Respect your views and hold them with High Regard. Honestly...From my own experiance...with my WW ..i just cannot phantom why anyone would want to live the anguish that ...as i have stated ...when the truth and details come out after D_DAy ...IT NEVER LEAVES THE BS.... Many people on this site and others have been in R for Years ...triggering and in living in doubt about themselves and their WS For Years...i only ask WHY...Ive have already been thru HELL why in Gods name would i want to continue living in it...R can and does happen but not much..that ive have seen. I completely understand your position. And I agree with you, but I do not agree when you take your position, and decide that is true for everyone. I have been through a year of pain. I know about pain. And I know that I have more coming. And I know that this A has made me an emotional wreck. And I know these triggers will not necessarily ever stop. But I doubt they will stop out there either. I am not going to run away from this. Why do I do it? Why do I stay? Because I believe in myself, and my choices. I believe it's what is best for me. I would rather get through this R, see what is on the other side, and still be with my daughter and the woman I have loved deeply for 17 years. She cheated on me, yes, but I did nothing to her, and my feelings for her do not end just because she cheated. I hurt more BECAUSE I LOVE HER, not because I suddenly hate her. And I do not want to abandon my family, my daughter, for some kind of false withdrawal from this pain, which week by week, month by month, is lessening, and making me stronger. The pain of leaving my daughter would hurt me more. Im not afraid of being alone. Im ready to walk at any moment and I have NOTHING out there to make my life better. I am better here, in this home, in this marriage, than I am out there with no one. And I am not interested in finding a "new W", or a new life. I chose this one, and I am prepared to fight for it until I can see it has no future. Then, and only then, will I walk, because that will be the day that I will be able to say I do it for myself, and for the wellbeing of my daughter. But I have almost ZERO complaints about my wife or her behaviour at this point in time. I have her support. She wants to be together, even though every single member of her family has, and continues to try to use HER AFFAIR to drive US apart. Walking will be entirely about me. Edited May 1, 2014 by fellini 4
RightThere Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 She wants to be together, even though every single member of her family has, and continues to try to use HER AFFAIR to drive US apart. Walking will be entirely about me. Wow. Her family or yours? In my case, I get little support from my family for trying to R with my WW. Her family is totally supportive. My family would rather see us separate. On both sides I guess I'm considered that adored son or son-in-law. Both sides want what's best for me (almost more than my WW).
fellini Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 (edited) I did horrific damage to OM when i outed him to his BW...I threated a lawsuit against the company they worked for...they Both lost their jobs....His BW financially destroyed him in his D. NONE OF THIS MATTERED...when the OM can to my office and showed me pictures of my ExW doing sexual acts she said were Disgusting to her for 22 years and worse..... The images still dance in my head to this day. I REALIZED WHAT SHE HAD BECOME AND HAD DONE...THERE WAS NO COMING BACK. I filed for D after doing the HARD 180 and find out all of the TRUTH i could STOMACH! I have NO Problem with R...I have just not seen MANY SUCESSFUL CASES... I have seen this, and I get where you are completely. IF I leave my WS, it will probably be for similiar issues. But I already know that it will not be because my WS had sex with the AP, it will be because I am incapable of handling that. In your case I can imagine FULLY why you want nothing to do with R. If my wife's AP sent me photos of their sex that he took as selfies I would probably leave her immediately. 1) because I asked, and she promised me no sex toys or photos were ever taken. and 2) because it would probably scar me for life, and I would not be able to function in that marriage. I fully imagine you made the exact choice for you, because I would have done the same in your place. In my case, my WS thought she was doing me a favor by telling me her AP had testosterone problems. I had told her I wanted no explicit details. Learning that, when I did not ASK for that information hurt me a lot. It created images I did not want to have, and continue to struggle with even a year later. The things I have had to deal with are unspeakable in this forum. They might very well be the undoing of our marriage. But I repeat, that will be because of a failure on my part to find something to help me eliminate these horrific intrusions. I would end our marriage because I cannot function, NOT BECAUSE OF WHAT I KNOW ABOUT HER AFFAIR. Edited May 1, 2014 by fellini 2
fellini Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 Wow. Her family or yours? In my case, I get little support from my family for trying to R with my WW. Her family is totally supportive. My family would rather see us separate. On both sides I guess I'm considered that adored son or son-in-law. Both sides want what's best for me (almost more than my WW). Those in my family that know (a few of my 6 brothers/sisters) are supportive of what I decide. I love them for that! They understand if I walk, they understand if I fight to work it out. I wish I could say the same for hers. When my WS told her family (Christmas day 2013) about her affair (I had just asked for a "structured separation") they said nothing to her, and even less to me. They didn't even say to me, "Look, im sorry about what you've been through," or "Im sorry" NADA. NOTHING. 17 years of being with this family, allowing them enormous contact with my daughter, and they couldn't even look me in the eye, LIKE IT WAS ME THAT MADE MY WS A VICTIM! Shortly after they showed their true colors trying to get my S to rethink the marriage. She stopped them dead in their tracks and blasted them out of the water. Even her mother gave it a go.
badkarma2013 Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 I have seen this, and I get where you are completely. IF I leave my WS, it will probably be for similiar issues. But I already know that it will not be because my WS had sex with the AP, it will be because I am incapable of handling that. In your case I can imagine FULLY why you want nothing to do with R. If my wife's AP sent me photos of their sex that he took as selfies I would probably leave her immediately. 1) because I asked, and she promised me no sex toys or photos were ever taken. and 2) because it would probably scar me for life, and I would not be able to function in that marriage. I fully imagine you made the exact choice for you, because I would have done the same in your place. In my case, my WS thought she was doing me a favor by telling me her AP had testosterone problems. I had told her I wanted no explicit details. Learning that, when I did not ASK for that information hurt me a lot. It created images I did not want to have, and continue to struggle with even a year later. The things I have had to deal with are unspeakable in this forum. They might very well be the undoing of our marriage. But I repeat, that will be because of a failure on my part to find something to help me eliminate these horrific intrusions. I would end our marriage because I cannot function, NOT BECAUSE OF WHAT I KNOW ABOUT HER AFFAIR. Fellni ...the more you post ..the More i Like you... Thank You for noting the Horrible position i found myself in..which i felt left me with little if any options... I applaude your efforts to R and hope someday the pain and doubt will leave you and be REPLACED WITH MUCH HAPPINESS ... 1
dichotomy Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 (edited) I stayed because it benefits me and what's important to me. I have carefully considered the alternate life carefully - and it holds less for me (other than perhaps more sex right now) Yes - there are other less "cold" selfish reasons like vows, commitments, hope for the future, knowing it can be very good, love (not feely love - but the real kind)...but bottom line it is benefits me... until it does not. This is from a position of strength and whats best for me - which should always be part of decisions about staying or not after an affair. I never use the term reconciled. That means to me something is wiped out like it never happened. Its a different marriage now, and it will be a different marriage probably 5-10 years from now as well just cause that's life and marriage. Edited May 1, 2014 by dichotomy 2
Buckeye2 Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 I would think that a marriage would have to have something very strong about it to have a successful R. The pain and stress would seem to be overwhelming but the marriage endured. What I can’t understand is why the WS would have an affair if the marriage was worth fighting for to that degree. My wife and I have never cheated in 35 years (as far as I know) and I think we have a good marriage. I know my wife well enough to know she would never put up with what I’ve seen WS put up with in R. I know that if I cheated on my wife and was caught I couldn’t deal with it and would get a divorce. In some way these marriages that have had a successful R must be stronger than mine. 1
badkarma2013 Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 I would think that a marriage would have to have something very strong about it to have a successful R. The pain and stress would seem to be overwhelming but the marriage endured. What I can’t understand is why the WS would have an affair if the marriage was worth fighting for to that degree. My wife and I have never cheated in 35 years (as far as I know) and I think we have a good marriage. I know my wife well enough to know she would never put up with what I’ve seen WS put up with in R. I know that if I cheated on my wife and was caught I couldn’t deal with it and would get a divorce. In some way these marriages that have had a successful R must be stronger than mine. What if she Betrayed you?
badkarma2013 Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 i see a lot of posters who you can tell ending the marriage is the right descision but agony to them. And then others whose views come accross as people who view their ws as damaged property. Their pride seems to be more broken than their heart. And I hope that really it is just a cover up because they don't want to face the real pain. Of course then I remember there are a lot of arrogent jerks in the world. And sometimes they get cheated on too! Affairs are about CHOICES...not Mistakes...My WW made a choice.. Then i made a Choice..D.......nothing to do with Pride...broken heart YES... Being lied to and Betrayed YES..Believing that the person Most important person was there for me as i was her,only to find out the last 2 years of my marriage was a LIE..YES Pride NO...Self Respect for me YES
dragon_fly_7 Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 Lets just say I hope your luck was better than mine. After almost 5 years of marriage--the first year being when I caught her cheating--I've just learned she was cheating again with the same guy, since at least a year ago. Do me a favor. Use GPS tracking devices in her car, install key loggers on her computers and cell phone, and systematically review her cell phone bills and credit card bills. Don't attack her about every little thing, but watch your back. This woman could still be cheating on you.Just read your other thread. Interesting so a man can cheat as many times with any skirt but yet if his woman cheats on him once, he's freaking out. LOL... all this coming from not just a serial cheater but a pump-n-dumper. 1
bigman1 Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 As I read these posts, what I see is this, everyone is going to walk with an emotional "limp" after infidelity. Some more pronounced than others. Those that stay because they are co-dependent, or scared of going on their own, or lack self esteem stay because they "have to". Some try to hide behind what is best for the kids, but in reality, they just can't pull the trigger and I am sad for them. They seem more resigned to a miserable or barely pleasant existence. Truly sad people who don't realize their worth. Others stay because they choose to. They look at the carnage, and recognize that they could walk away or limp away and ultimately would be fine. They have decided that they want to stay married to their unfaithful partner, not that they need to stay married. I respect them. I view that as a choice and not a default position. Choice is nice as it puts you in control. It is still a hard walk, but one that they chose. If, somewhere along the lines they can't handle the mental aspect of it, I don't think that it is a failure on their part to cope. I think it is a recognition that in order to be a whole person, they need to end it. Sometimes you have to remove the foreign body out of your foot to walk right. That is not weakness, it is an intelligent decision on how to prevent further damage. I get upset at talk about a betrayed having the strength to stay, as if leaving is weakness. It takes strength to stay or to leave. In the end, you don't know how you are going to act until it hits you. I just think that those who decide out of a position of weakness are the most miserable of them all. They love, sleep with, despise and are bound to their trigger. They remind me of drug addicts who want to quit but can't endure the withdrawal symptoms. 4
BHsigh Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 I have seen this, and I get where you are completely. IF I leave my WS, it will probably be for similiar issues. But I already know that it will not be because my WS had sex with the AP, it will be because I am incapable of handling that. In your case I can imagine FULLY why you want nothing to do with R. If my wife's AP sent me photos of their sex that he took as selfies I would probably leave her immediately. 1) because I asked, and she promised me no sex toys or photos were ever taken. and 2) because it would probably scar me for life, and I would not be able to function in that marriage. I fully imagine you made the exact choice for you, because I would have done the same in your place. In my case, my WS thought she was doing me a favor by telling me her AP had testosterone problems. I had told her I wanted no explicit details. Learning that, when I did not ASK for that information hurt me a lot. It created images I did not want to have, and continue to struggle with even a year later. The things I have had to deal with are unspeakable in this forum. They might very well be the undoing of our marriage. But I repeat, that will be because of a failure on my part to find something to help me eliminate these horrific intrusions. I would end our marriage because I cannot function, NOT BECAUSE OF WHAT I KNOW ABOUT HER AFFAIR. Great perspective fellini, this is a very good way to word this. Thank you. 2
fellini Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 Its a different marriage now, and it will be a different marriage probably 5-10 years from now as well just cause that's life and marriage. Yesterday I quoted this, and what you say captures the essence perfectly: Esther Perel: Most people today, for the sheer length we live together, have two or three marriages in their adult life, and some of us do it with the same person. 2
badkarma2013 Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 As I read these posts, what I see is this, everyone is going to walk with an emotional "limp" after infidelity. Some more pronounced than others. Those that stay because they are co-dependent, or scared of going on their own, or lack self esteem stay because they "have to". Some try to hide behind what is best for the kids, but in reality, they just can't pull the trigger and I am sad for them. They seem more resigned to a miserable or barely pleasant existence. Truly sad people who don't realize their worth. Others stay because they choose to. They look at the carnage, and recognize that they could walk away or limp away and ultimately would be fine. They have decided that they want to stay married to their unfaithful partner, not that they need to stay married. I respect them. I view that as a choice and not a default position. Choice is nice as it puts you in control. It is still a hard walk, but one that they chose If, somewhere along the lines they can't handle the mental aspect of it, I don't think that it is a failure on their part to cope. I think it is a recognition that in order to be a whole person, they need to end it. Sometimes you have to remove the foreign body out of your foot to walk right. That is not weakness, it is an intelligent decision on how to prevent further damage. I get upset at talk about a betrayed having the strength to stay, as if leaving is weakness. It takes strength to stay or to leave. In the end, you don't know how you are going to act until it hits you. I just think that those who decide out of a position of weakness are the most miserable of them all. They love, sleep with, despise and are bound to their trigger. They remind me of drug addicts who want to quit but can't endure the withdrawal symptoms. Of ALL of the post i have made.......of All you who have agreed or disagreed with me.... THIS POST.....sums up all of my feelings about R and D. Again, i truly applaude those of you who CAN R. I appreciate Bigman being able to post this for ALL of us !
Buckeye2 Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 I would think that a marriage would have to have something very strong about it to have a successful R. The pain and stress would seem to be overwhelming but the marriage endured. What I can’t understand is why the WS would have an affair if the marriage was worth fighting for to that degree. My wife and I have never cheated in 35 years (as far as I know) and I think we have a good marriage. I know my wife well enough to know she would never put up with what I’ve seen WS put up with in R. I know that if I cheated on my wife and was caught I couldn’t deal with it and would get a divorce. In some way these marriages that have had a successful R must be stronger than mine. What if she Betrayed you? I would divorce her because I know that I couldn’t handle R. I would protect myself with D. I don’t think we could handle looking at each other. That’s my point. There must have been something special about the marriage for both parties to endure the pain of R. For the life of me I can’t figure out why the WS would cheat if the marriage were that strong. To withstand the storm, the foundation must have been remarkable.
badkarma2013 Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 I would divorce her because I know that I couldn’t handle R. I would protect myself with D. I don’t think we could handle looking at each other. That’s my point. There must have been something special about the marriage for both parties to endure the pain of R. For the life of me I can’t figure out why the WS would cheat if the marriage were that strong. To withstand the storm, the foundation must have been remarkable. Thank You for your Honesty.......
Buckeye2 Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 (edited) Others stay because they choose to. They look at the carnage, and recognize that they could walk away or limp away and ultimately would be fine. They have decided that they want to stay married to their unfaithful partner, not that they need to stay married. I respect them. I view that as a choice and not a default position. Choice is nice as it puts you in control. It is still a hard walk, but one that they chose. These are the marriages I'm referring to. Both the BS and WS fighting for R because they choose to. Edited May 1, 2014 by Buckeye2
Owl Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 To Owl and Fellini WE WILL NEVER AGREE ....However it does Not mean i do not Respect your views and hold them with High Regard. Agreed. We don't have to have the same opinion...we just have to respect each other's right to have their own. Honestly...From my own experiance...with my WW ..i just cannot phantom why anyone would want to live the anguish that ...as i have stated ...when the truth and details come out after D_DAy ...IT NEVER LEAVES THE BS.... Many people on this site and others have been in R for Years ...triggering and in living in doubt about themselves and their WS For Years...i only ask WHY...Ive have already been thru HELL why in Gods name would i want to continue living in it...R can and does happen but not much..that ive have seen. I think we've learned different lessons from the same painful teaching experience. I've come to realize that nothing prevents me from being impacted by infidelity in my life. If I had left my wife and started in a new relationship...that relationship would be no more affair-proof than then one I left. In fact...given how painful the lesson was for my wife as well, I've come to the conclusion that I believe that my wife is LESS likely to do this again than someone else who hasn't learned that same painful lesson. Our "time of troubles" as we call it rarely comes to mind, rarely comes up in conversation. And even when it does, I don't 'trigger' from it anymore. It's in the past...it's not relevent to our marriage today. Our marriage isn't the same as it was back then, she's learned some tough lessons, as have I. I'm the kind of guy who is fully capable of focusing on the now...'learn from the past, but live in the present' has been my motto for decades. How do you think vets learn to recover from the horrors they experienced in combat? Yep...many struggle from PTSD. But they learn how to cope with it, how to deal with it, and how to put the past behind them. I think the attributes you need to recover as a soldier are the same that you need to recover from infidelity. I certainly used the same coping skills to help recover from both emotional traumas.
badkarma2013 Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 How do you think vets learn to recover from the horrors they experienced in combat? Yep...many struggle from PTSD. But they learn how to cope with it, how to deal with it, and how to put the past behind them. I think the attributes you need to recover as a soldier are the same that you need to recover from infidelity. I certainly used the same coping skills to help recover from both emotional traumas. In my early post...I stated to people who have" Not" been betrayed ..."if you have never been to Beruit...Dont tell me how you think it was...I lived thru Beruit and them some...And i have learned ..with help to cope with what happened... It does not mean.... " I want to go back " ....Same for my marriage.
Owl Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 How do you think vets learn to recover from the horrors they experienced in combat? Yep...many struggle from PTSD. But they learn how to cope with it, how to deal with it, and how to put the past behind them. I think the attributes you need to recover as a soldier are the same that you need to recover from infidelity. I certainly used the same coping skills to help recover from both emotional traumas. In my early post...I stated to people who have" Not" been betrayed ..."if you have never been to Beruit...Dont tell me how you think it was...I lived thru Beruit and them some...And i have learned ..with help to cope with what happened... It does not mean.... " I want to go back " ....Same for my marriage. Cool...we have some similar experiences to use as a basis for communication. Here's the thing...as I mentioned earlier...once you truly reconcile, you truly deal with the issues...you don't "go back" in a reconciled marriage. Falsely reconciled ones...yes, I can see that. I don't relive the trauma that I went through after d-day. I don't feel the hurt, the anger, the pain I felt then. The "triggers" fade over time with a reconciled marriage to where they haven't occurred for me in years. Just like the triggers I felt for years after my own experiences. That's the key difference...and what most "anti-reconciliation" folks never healed enough to ever realize, or even consider possible.
fellini Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 Of ALL of the post i have made.......of All you who have agreed or disagreed with me.... THIS POST.....sums up all of my feelings about R and D. Again, i truly applaude those of you who CAN R. I appreciate Bigman being able to post this for ALL of us ! I will sleep on two observations gathered in this discussion tonight: THE REASONS GIVEN for deciding to R are one thing. What comes of that process is other thing all together. So even if one chooses to R because "they are too afraid", "for the kids", whatever the negative reason, its possible that the R erases that because thriugh it they find themselves in a different emotional space. (Of course the opposite can happen too, and a BS can throw in the towel after several years of R) 1
badkarma2013 Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 Cool...we have some similar experiences to use as a basis for communication. Here's the thing...as I mentioned earlier...once you truly reconcile, you truly deal with the issues...you don't "go back" in a reconciled marriage. Falsely reconciled ones...yes, I can see that. I don't relive the trauma that I went through after d-day. I don't feel the hurt, the anger, the pain I felt then. The "triggers" fade over time with a reconciled marriage to where they haven't occurred for me in years. Just like the triggers I felt for years after my own experiences. That's the key difference...and what most "anti-reconciliation" folks never healed enough to ever realize, or even consider possible.[/QUOT I could not Agree More....You cannot go back to your old marriage...Your WSs actions killed that marriage and it is truly dead..... I guess after much reflection...There any many out there who have Dealt with the Issues and have Truly understood what brought this to their lives...and now find a peace with it. I see more "false r" who still struggle for years...WS not remorseful...and never realizing the Horrific damage THEY caused. Ive never been anti R ...just never Really seen much success .... 1
drifter777 Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 ... Could not agree more...again some case of R work for some people...however the LIES ,DECEIT and DEPTHS OF BETRAYL that come to light after D-DAY and the upcoming weeks and months ( If the WS is honest) ....WILL NEVER LEAVE THE BS....EVER.. Ive spoken to a couple on another site...who the wife confessed an ongoing affair to her husband over 25years ago...at that time they...he decide to R....HE STILL AFTER 25 YEARS DEALING WITH ISSUES FROM THIS EVENT.......25 YEARS , GRANTED NOT AS SEVERE BUT THERE NONE THE LESS. WHY? Because she can't un-fu*k the OM. Because betrayal is forever. 1
drifter777 Posted May 1, 2014 Posted May 1, 2014 Here is a stat to cover that previous stat: 80% of those who divorce during an affair regret the decision. I totally reject this nonsense. I would say 90% of the BH's here at LS who chose divorce do not regret their decision. 2
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