new here (betrayed husband)

[tom670]

So she was cheating on you for 9-11years total until your DDay 13 years ago? You've been together 25+ years? How old are your kids now?

 

That's what I was thinking:(

DNA tests for the kids, sorry.

[2sunny]

Marriage Counselors. Yeh. Did you know that one of professions with the highest rate of affairs is marriage counselor?

 

We went through 3 MCs. None were worth jack.

 

WW confessed on her own in a email to me while I was traveling on business. She said she had tried to end the LTA before but kept slipping back in. Confessing was her way of burning that bridge.

 

 

So what is YOUR plan of action to change things?

 

If your W never changes - how do you plan to be happy moving forward?

[drifter777]

Thanks again for your replies.

 

Ive had to emotionally distance myself from WW, which I have done over the last 7 or 8 years. Until then I was hoping that something I could do or say would throw a switch in WW that would enable her to have some kind of remorse that I could recognize. It took a long time because my hopes were so strong. But in time I realized that our M could never be healed if I was the only one working on recovery.

 

So I emotionally distanced myself. I do things that satisfy me, validate me, and make me feel better. Ive started new hobbies and made new friends. This to me seems the best I can do since I have decided to stay in the M.

I also tried to grow a scar over my heart toward my wife and focus on our kids and my career. It kind of worked for many years, but the anger, pain, and shame was always just under the surface and boiled over from time-to-time.

 

I've found things that I really like about my wife and am able to compartmentalize what she did all those years ago. We travel together, we are raising my grandson together, we have decades of history together, and we have sex on a fairly regular basis. I guess I'm saying that life is really, really hard and lots of people have to live with traumatic memories. I know my feelings about this are not likely to change, but it is working for me about as well as I could have expected. It's not wedded bliss, but who in the hell lives in wedded bliss anyway?

 

It's easy for me to say that I made a mistake taking her back and wish with all my heart I would have divorced her. The blow to my ego and self-esteem was too damaging. And I wish I was young enough to start over but I'm not. You should find a counselor for yourself to help you live with this. I have done this and it does help.

[10thengineerharrison]

Weve been married for over 35 years. Our kids are grown now and are on their own. They were in their early / mid teens on Dday.

 

Sounds familiar. My W had an 11-yr VLTA that I found out about 12 years ago. It was also with a colleague. Initially, while they were in grad school together. His BW found out about it and made him move their family 2 states away. 5 years later, she hired him to consult on a job for her and they picked up again, though they were only together twice the second time. The A started when my son was 3. My daughter was 11. When I found out, my daughter was 23 and my son 15.

 

Why do I stay now? Habit I suppose. That and I am retired and if I divorce her I would loose allot of what I worked for. The pain of what I would loose is greater than the pain of staying.. for now. Divorce remains on the table though and it will probably always be there.

 

I think this is realistic, not so much habit. In a later post of yours you describe detaching emotionally. I did that too. It works remarkably well in keeping one's sanity.

 

A LTA (long term affair) is a different animal because it destroys so much of the marriage. Memories of things that seemed good at the time are now tainted. Also I tend to put some of the blame on me for not outing her affair sooner. My gut was screaming that something was wrong but I refused to believe it. So in a sense I betrayed myself.

 

I didn't feel as though I betrayed myself, though I remember feeling the way you describe here. You didn't want to believe your wife would do something like that to your family, just like any BS does. Did your wife ever actually leave to be with the OM? Mine never did, and insists that she never wanted to.

 

OM was a serial cheater. He was a BH in his first marriage. Then an OM to his current wife (who was married when they met). OM and his wife have cheated on each other many times. I feel no sympathy for either BUT the people affected by their affairs (like me, collateral damage) a feel anger at OM and his wife over this because they are destroying so many others.

 

I think Rat Meat might have been nuts over my wife. He was married and had 2 or 3 kids at the time. His youngest was born during the hiatus in the affair, and she was a point of contention in court with his xW for several years after they divorced in 2004. I think he kept thinking my wife would leave for him if he got divorced. I wish she had 20 years ago, but she didn't. And so RM is divorced, ex Mrs Meat is remarried to a guy she started an affair with after throwing him out in the snow (quite literally) in 2002, and his own sons aren't "friends" on his FB page (though his daughter is).

 

Basically, the goof is a pathetic squirrel.

 

OMs wife knew 2 years before I did. OM convinced her that I was a angry abusive husband that routinely beat and raped his (my) wife. None of it true of course. But because of that she didnt tell me and so the LTA went underground and continued for another 2 years.

 

I can't understand why ex Mrs Meat didn't tell me about the affair the first time when she found out about it. I didn't tell her before she found out about the 2nd time. It was priceless what she did then, though. RM had come to CA to drop some report off at my wife's work (she and I went away for a long weekend together so she wouldn't see him - I knew but she didn't know I knew), but he'd forgotten a file. So he asked his W to email him the file. When she poked around on his computer and found evidence for the affair again, she reformatted all his hard drives and threw away his reports! I wish I had been a fly on the wall!

 

She got to have her fun and still got to keep the marriage along with the security and all that goes with it.

 

I wonder if that's the case. My wife was probably more miserable during the affair than she was after I found out. Our marriage was mediocre, but after I found out about the affair I realized why.

 

When I had had enough of the contact continuing after d-day, I convinced my wife that I had, and the contact stopped. I was literally ready to file for divorce, sell our stuff (3 houses in 2 states), and go happily on my own way. What convinced her that I was sincere that time (I'd made ultimatums before), was the way I said "I won't go through that again for ANYBODY." But it wouldn't matter whether she believed it that time or not. I knew I was ready to bail if necessary. But it hasn't been necessary.

 

Life is forever different after an affair, particularly a VLTA. Books by people from the Reconciliation Industrial Complex (e.g., Willard Harley) are worse than useless in dealing with VLTAs, they're actually rather silly.

 

Getting yourself firmly grounded emotionally, so you can be happy with whomever you're with (even your wife), especially your kids and any kids of theirs, is what will enable you to thrive.

 

Don't expect a fairy-tale marriage, seek wisdom, and you won't be disappointed.

 

-10th Engineer Harrison

[nightmare01]

I also tried to grow a scar over my heart toward my wife and focus on our kids and my career. It kind of worked for many years, but the anger, pain, and shame was always just under the surface and boiled over from time-to-time.

 

I've found things that I really like about my wife and am able to compartmentalize what she did all those years ago. We travel together, we are raising my grandson together, we have decades of history together, and we have sex on a fairly regular basis. I guess I'm saying that life is really, really hard and lots of people have to live with traumatic memories. I know my feelings about this are not likely to change, but it is working for me about as well as I could have expected. It's not wedded bliss, but who in the hell lives in wedded bliss anyway?

 

It's easy for me to say that I made a mistake taking her back and wish with all my heart I would have divorced her. The blow to my ego and self-esteem was too damaging. And I wish I was young enough to start over but I'm not. You should find a counselor for yourself to help you live with this. I have done this and it does help.

 

I could have written your post word for word.

 

It would be nice if the universe works such that good people are rewarded for good deeds and bad people are punished for the things they have done. But thats not the way it works. Too often its the opposite.

 

This is the world we live in and all our dreams, hopes, wishes, dont make a damn bit of difference in the end. All we can do is to make the best we can of a lousy situation.

[drifter777]

I could have written your post word for word.

 

It would be nice if the universe works such that good people are rewarded for good deeds and bad people are punished for the things they have done. But thats not the way it works. Too often its the opposite.

 

This is the world we live in and all our dreams, hopes, wishes, dont make a damn bit of difference in the end. All we can do is to make the best we can of a lousy situation.

I completley accept that the world is not fair and I no longer think it should be or that I'm entitled to a good life if I'm a good person. The sooner a person accepts this fact the sooner they'll stop feeling like fate is picking on them.

 

You are finding out that it's possible to compartmentalize different facets of your life and be pretty much as happy as anyone else actually is. The thing is, you are young enough so that starting over would give you a chance for more peace-of-mind.

[nightmare01]

Im retired and in my 60s. So not young enough to start over.

[Davey L]

Im retired and in my 60s. So not young enough to start over.

 

 

I know of at least two close relatives of mine that have started over in their 60's.

Perhaps the obstacle is not so much the limited time ahead (which could easily be 20 or 30 years) but the time invested in the past?

[nightmare01]

Perhaps the obstacle is not so much the limited time ahead (which could easily be 20 or 30 years) but the time invested in the past?

 

Probably so.

[Oberfeldwebel]

Divorce or reconciliation is your choice to make. However, my Aunt outlived a husband and two boyfriends all after the age of 60, so don't make excuses.

[2sunny]

It seems your wife didn't experience enough consequences when DDay hit.

 

 

Maybe now is the time for her to experience pain for what she created = an empty M full of disappointment and wondering who she really is.

 

I'd say time on your own is much more rewarding than being with someone who caused that much pain and isn't remorseful!

 

You either get busy living or you get busy dying. Your suffering is same as dying.

 

Better to let go of what drags you down and start experiencing life as it should be - happy, fun and free to enjoy it all!

 

If your kids ask why you're divorcing - I encourage honesty = Mom cheated years ago and has never expressed by her actions that she is sorry she did it.

 

THEN your W may have to experience some consequences that she should have had all those years ago.

 

The truth will set you free! Let her love with her truth once it's known to all.

 

Don't cover for her!

[drifter777]

...I was hoping that something I could do or say would throw a switch in WW that would enable her to have some kind of remorse that I could recognize. It took a long time because my hopes were so strong. But in time I realized that our M could never be healed if I was the only one working on recovery.

I agree that it's very tough to start over when you are in your 60's. I'm very close to your age so I understand what you mean. Since we seem to be on the same wave-length here let me go on a little bit about what I have done that has helped.

 

My wife cheated after about 6 years of marriage. She has always had narcissistic tendencies and felt entitled to "experience" other men. After all, our marriage was hard and she didn't like hard so she decided to be a slut and told me to leave. She got tired of being "single" after a month or so and begged me to come back. I was too weak and to shattered by it all to resist the life-raft she offered me. Over the next few years we just didn't talk about it other than when I would trigger and call her out on her sh*t. Every time she would say that it was something she needed to do and that it ended up being a good thing because she realized how much she loved me. Then I would turn my thoughts inward again thinking "is this really ok and I just don't get it?" Classic gas-lighting. This continued for years and my anger grew stronger as time went by. But she wouldn't change her tune and I wouldn't just walk out on my family.

 

When our youngest son was about ready to go out on his own I suddenly began to have more anger over her cheating. The mind-movies of her and the other guys began to crush me all over again, and I spent many sleepless nights imagining breaking her f'ing neck or shooting myself in the head. Finally I called her out and told her that I needed to resolve this or I was going to walk out and divorce her. If she wouldn't see that what she did was disgusting, selfish, and just plain wrong then I was through. It took time to wade through all her "I can't remember" bullsh*t but, when all the facts were out, she finally saw herself as a cheater. We went through a lot of hell and some of her excuses are still burned into my brain. She told me that she was so sorry she hurt me but "I was just a young, naive girl and I never thought of your feelings". Isn't this the very definition of narcissistic? She finally got to that place where she saw her actions for what they were and was truly ashamed of herself. She finally understood that being sorry she hurt me meant nothing - it was the act that was wrong. It is the act that she must acknowledge and feel the full weight of being a cheater. She really broke when the truth of it all finally got through to her.

 

I got most of what I needed, and I believe she is truly remorseful for what she did. The fact that she has been a good wife and mother ever since that time really didn't mean much until she finally faced the ugliness of what she did back then. I'm better now. Not great, but better.

 

I don't think you've gotten to the place I'm at yet. Maybe you don't have to but I don't think you would be posting on this forum unless you needed some kind of closure from her. It's all up to you.

 

You talk about how it would cause financial issues if you divorce. I understand that as well, but isn't she much more vulnerable in this area then you are? A divorce would probably mean splitting your retirement savings down the middle, but she would only get 1/2 the Social Security that you get and that can be huge depending on your circumstances. At any rate, she probably couldn't end up being better off with a divorce so you have more leverage here than you think.

 

Like me, you will have to get to the point where you are ready to leave for good if she doesn't give you what you need. When you get to that point she will feel your resolve and start to panic. She will try to manipulate you with tidbits of the truth and crocodile tears. Don't let up; keep working on it until you are satisfied she is truly remorseful or not. You will know it when you see it. Also, you have to accept that she might not be sorry about the affair - only sorry it hurt you. Then you do what you feel is right for you.

[Steadfast]

...I don't think you would be posting on this forum unless you needed some kind of closure from her.

 

That's exactly what I was about to type drifter. What are you looking for nightmare? Why are you here, if your 'arrangement' to survive is in place?

 

I think it's because your arrangement stinks and you're miserable.

 

There is no magic formula. There are no magic words. You can't always define the kind of lifestyle you desire...life's surroundings are often out of our control. You can, however, decide what kind of person you want to be. You can decide who and what you want in your life, or who and what you don't. You can't just give up and bitch, well, unless that truly gives you joy.

 

Just because you don't see justice doesn't mean it doesn't exist. How vain is that? Once we're all wrapped up in our head, it's really hard to get out. It takes balls to move away from our comfort zone. It's not an easy thing to do, but good things are never easy to get. Great risk, great reward.

[nightmare01]

Thanks again for all the replies.

 

I think we each need to pick our own way through this mess and there is no one size fits all solution. I wish there were.

 

Ive distanced myself emotionally from WW. The 180 as it is sometimes called. We live as sort of friends with occasional benefits. We go places together and enjoy each other company. We have allot of history together and so share a common world view.

 

I believe WW has regret and maybe a little remorse. She is one of those people that keeps it all inside though. So I really dont know what she is or is not feeling. I would like for her to acknowledge the pain she caused me and take responsibility for it. But at the same time it really isnt her nature to expose herself in that way. Basically I find myself wanting something she does not have the capability to give.

 

It took a long time for me to realize that she could not give me what I needed as far as remorse and empathy. Maybe its FOO issues. I dont know. But she simply is not able to express what I need to hear. Does she feel these things? I have no way to know. So in the end using the 180 is what works for me.

[Buckeye2]

It took a long time for me to realize that she could not give me what I needed as far as remorse and empathy.

 

Nither could drifter’s wife until she was confronted with the fact that she had something to lose.

 

I think your wife gives herself a lot of credit for ending her affair and telling you about it. She pulled up her big girl pants and gave up the OM for her family. Then you did pretty much nothing. Your adult kids don’t even know.

 

Given those facts I can understand why your wife acts like she does. If you want to have a marriage then you need to work on it like drifter did.

 

If you are satisfied living separate lives and being occasional friends with benefits, then you have no marriage. Which is fine but you seem to be lacking something.

 

Why are you here, if your 'arrangement' to survive is in place? I think it's because your arrangement stinks and you're miserable.

 

Revenge affairs are bad in general. However, I certainly wouldn't restrain myself if I found myself in your situation and a nice woman came along someday. Since you seem to have given up on your marriage I think that the right woman would be good for what ails you.

Edited April 30, 2014 by Buckeye2

[Buckeye2]

At about a year into the PA we moved 2000 miles away. WW was not working then so she would fly back to "visit friends" at least 1 time a month. And those trips would typically last about 2 weeks. So about half the time she was with her OM.

 

You didn't know it at the time but you were basically paying for your wife to fly and visit the OM? Did she ever say she was sorry for that? Were your kids out of the house by then? Did she ever go back to work?

Edited April 30, 2014 by Buckeye2

[RightThere]

It might help if you stop trying to believe that your cheating spouse has some sort of "inner life" which you are giving her credit for, but which is "hidden" from you.

 

Most people don't have much if any inner life. They don't think overly much about the past or the future. I think most cheaters probably fall into that category. They have about as much insight to themselves or empathy for others as a housecat. You try to communicate with her, to "reach" her, and yet never get there. Because most likely there is no "there" there.

 

You see, way back when, she presented herself to you in an idealized manner or you perceived her as such, she went through the motions, but it was all a head fake.

 

It is all much easier when we as betrayed spouses become willing to accept that the person we married is pretty much of a shallow "town whore" type. It's kind of a hit to the ego to admit that to ourselves though which is why we resist it. We want to think she's wonderful, deep, empathetic, intelligent, all of it. But she's not.

 

She's basically just a rather brainless, amoral walking vagina. Most men marry their wives because of the sex and they ignore all the flaws via wishful thinking.

 

Just think of your wife as a pocket pussy that some other guy picked up and used for a while. Kind of gross and maybe you have to throw it away or at least wash it out thoroughly. Stop thinking of your cheating spouse as a fundamentally "moral being" and it all becomes so much easier.

 

That doesn't mean you should divorce her because MOST women are just as dimwittedly amoral as your cheating spouse so odds are you would be jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire.

 

Once you accept that a faithful wife is greatly the EXCEPTION and not the rule you won't feel so ripped off by all of this. A man has to get very LUCKY to find a woman who won't cheat on him and doesn't have a variety of other major flaws. Don't feel so bad you couldn't beat those odds since they are very long odds for any man.

 

You need to either write a book, or start quoting where this comes from.

 

I've read some similar stuff recently but I've found it to be very true. Most women who have read similar thoughts agree with it as well.

 

Everyone lives in fantasy land all the way until the wedding day. Then when the wife starts sleeping with someone else, everyone thinks she's had a personality break. Truth it, that was actually the real wife. The one with the personality break was the one you married.

[nightmare01]

Once you accept that a faithful wife is greatly the EXCEPTION and not the rule you won't feel so ripped off by all of this. A man has to get very LUCKY to find a woman who won't cheat on him and doesn't have a variety of other major flaws. Don't feel so bad you couldn't beat those odds since they are very long odds for any man.

 

These posts seem a little over the top and definitely show a general negative view of all women. If all women are bound to cheat (as you seem to believe) then who are they cheating with? Men naturally, and those men are not innocent victims. Maybe faithful PEOPLE are the exception. But still thats a rather jaded POV.

 

These posts seem to read as if some people are just pre-wired to cheat. That there was no way to avoid it. And that could be true to a degree.

 

I think that past behavior can be a predictor of future behavior. So if a man or woman has had allot of concurrent relationships, or had affairs in the past, or was a single other person in the past, perhaps these are warning signs. My WW fit into that category and I M her anyway. So maybe her cheating was inevitable?

 

But what about people who M and were each others "onlys"?

 

It just seems there are too many variables to paint infidelity with such a broad brush.

[drifter777]

These posts seem a little over the top and definitely show a general negative view of all women. If all women are bound to cheat (as you seem to believe) then who are they cheating with? Men naturally, and those men are not innocent victims. Maybe faithful PEOPLE are the exception. But still thats a rather jaded POV.

Ahh, but the double standard does exist - and for good reason. Here's how a woman can cheat: be friendly and flirtatious with men and don't say "NO" when they make their move. The man in this circumstance is just lucky enough to be at the right place at the right time. Most men don't blame other men for turning down easy, no-strings sex. I don't. A man who wants to get some strange has to pursue and charm and then hope to get lucky. For most guys it's probably a 10 -1 chance they will get laid on any particular night out. For women it's more like 6 - 5 and maybe even money.

 

We all expect our wives/girlfriends to get hit on and we all expect that they will deny these advances because they are committed to us. We think this is a reasonable expectation. They have been pursued for sex since they were teenagers and know how to shut guys down. When we discover that she's screwing off on us we realize that she made an overt decision to not say no. She turned off all of her "I better brush this dude off now" defenses because she wanted sex. If you have put her on some kind of pedestal, this realization is a huge part of the d-day devastation.

But what about people who M and were each others "onlys"?

This is also very, very dangerous because both parties will be curious to know what other people are like in the sack. At some point one of both of them might even feel entitled to find out what they are missing. And since it's so much easier for a woman to cheat than it is for a man, well, you do the math.

 

A critical zen philosophy is that one must truly accept that life is hard. Your expectations for life should be that it is a struggle. Somehow this philosophy seems to be what Hang is espousing; accept your wife, by virtue of her being a woman, is a slut at heart and will cheat whenever she wants to. I am working on accepting the "life is hard" thing, but I don't think I can even try to accept the "woman are whores" thing. I don't want to believe it.

[RightThere]

A critical zen philosophy is that one must truly accept that life is hard. Your expectations for life should be that it is a struggle. Somehow this philosophy seems to be what Hang is espousing; accept your wife, by virtue of her being a woman, is a slut at heart and will cheat whenever she wants to. I am working on accepting the "life is hard" thing, but I don't think I can even try to accept the "woman are whores" thing. I don't want to believe it.

 

"If you expect the world to be fair with you because you are fair, you're fooling yourself. That's like expecting the lion not you eat you because you didn't eat him."

 

(I stole this)

[nightmare01]

Ahh, but the double standard does exist - and for good reason. Here's how a woman can cheat: be friendly and flirtatious with men and don't say "NO" when they make their move. The man in this circumstance is just lucky enough to be at the right place at the right time. Most men don't blame other men for turning down easy, no-strings sex. I don't. A man who wants to get some strange has to pursue and charm and then hope to get lucky. For most guys it's probably a 10 -1 chance they will get laid on any particular night out. For women it's more like 6 - 5 and maybe even money.

 

We all expect our wives/girlfriends to get hit on and we all expect that they will deny these advances because they are committed to us. We think this is a reasonable expectation. They have been pursued for sex since they were teenagers and know how to shut guys down. When we discover that she's screwing off on us we realize that she made an overt decision to not say no. She turned off all of her "I better brush this dude off now" defenses because she wanted sex. If you have put her on some kind of pedestal, this realization is a huge part of the d-day devastation.

 

This is also very, very dangerous because both parties will be curious to know what other people are like in the sack. At some point one of both of them might even feel entitled to find out what they are missing. And since it's so much easier for a woman to cheat than it is for a man, well, you do the math.

 

A critical zen philosophy is that one must truly accept that life is hard. Your expectations for life should be that it is a struggle. Somehow this philosophy seems to be what Hang is espousing; accept your wife, by virtue of her being a woman, is a slut at heart and will cheat whenever she wants to. I am working on accepting the "life is hard" thing, but I don't think I can even try to accept the "woman are whores" thing. I don't want to believe it.

 

Good points. I think the man/woman thing comes down to WHEN the choice to cheat is made.

 

In the case of seeking just casual sex. I think women decide they will have a affair before the opportunity presents itself. Whereas men decide they will have a affair when the opportunity presents itself.

 

In either case the result is the same. Because men are out there looking and and getting shot down more times than not. Women though may deliberate longer before deciding to cheat, but when they do finding a affair partner is pretty easy.

 

In EA (romantic) related affairs (that may also be PAs) I think that a casual friendship may strike up first. Theres probably mutual attraction but the friendship comes first. In this case the relationship slowly becomes more emotionally intimate over time. And eventually the man makes a move to have the relationship turn physical. He may get shot down at first but if the friendship / relationship continues it will eventually become physical.

 

For the married man to be hitting on women he must be the equivalent to the village whore, and probably should not be married in the first place. If a woman is doing this then she should not be married either. IMO its best if these sorts of people either not marry or if already married they should D.

 

Frankly I find the view of women are whores repugnant. I simply dont believe its true, just as I dont believe that all men are rapists.

 

I believe the Buddhist view is that life is pain. That pain and hardship comes with having a body. That does not in itself mean that we should cheat or be cheated on.

 

Everything comes down to commitment and boundaries. We commit to our spouse when we marry. We say vows to that effect. To keep that commitment we keep strict boundaries when it comes to relationships with the opposite sex. Those with strong boundaries that adhere to their commitment wont cheat. Those that take their commitment to be conditional, as in "until something better comes along" or "unless my needs arent being met", will have weak boundaries and in the end will probably have affairs.

[Steadfast]

Most people don't have much if any inner life. They don't think overly much about the past or the future. I think most cheaters probably fall into that category. They have about as much insight to themselves or empathy for others as a housecat. You try to communicate with her, to "reach" her, and yet never get there. Because most likely there is no "there" there...*snip*...Most men marry their wives because of the sex and they ignore all the flaws via wishful thinking.

 

This person made some very good points; I've been thinking about them for days. I've concluded that while insightful, the view is incomplete at best and highly jaded at worst, even if it doesn't diminish the truthfulness of it.

 

Look nightmare, I'm reaching the end of my time on this forum because the passion behind my situation had faded to nearly nothing. I understand what my ex is, and what she isn't. She's even remarried now, and I'm indifferent. At this point (and acknowledging the collateral damage) I am truly grateful that she isn't in my life anymore. Is that my position because she slept with other guys when we were married? Honestly yes, but only in part. Hindsight shows her being a weak coward did far more damage.

 

What killed my love for her and opened my eyes was her desire to allow us -me mostly, but also our children- to shoulder the blame for her decisions. Oh yes, she told us it was her, but in a very condescending way. Her actions proved otherwise, and it as was clear to me at 49-years of age as it was to our teenagers. Maybe we couldn't express it then, but we knew.

 

This is my counterpoint to the above statement that most women are brainless, walking vaginas. Even if (I think we can agree) cheaters often act and decide with no forethought to the future and damage it causes. We didn't and couldn't make her happy, so she left. Plain and simple. Afterward, she dealt with the guilt by passing it on. You don't do that to someone you love, but I suspect she didn't (doesn't?) know what love is.

 

For those betrayed, the choice is clear; use the experience to grow and learn, to become stronger, smarter and more aware of reality, or allow the injustice to bury us. I dare say I'm farther along than my kids, but they're getting there. Categorize it all you want, but it's the survival that counts.

[aliveagain]

Finding out your wife has been another mans plaything for over 11 years is a serious hit on one's manhood. Their relationship has lasted more than most marriages, I don't believe you have all of her back yet or ever will. It comes down to what value you put on yourself and what respect you demand for yourself. Don't make this about money or things, stay in the marriage for the right reasons. I would have a hard time looking at her across the kitchen table every morning knowing she lied and disrespected me for over a decade, it would make my coffee taste like sh*t. Just my opinion, don't compromise yourself or your value's, what do you win by doing so? I guess you win what's sitting across from you at the kitchen table. I will take happiness over anything material any day of the week, you deserve to be happy, don't just settle because you give up a lot of life doing that. You need to get on a plane to Morocco.

 

Do they still work together?

Edited May 3, 2014 by aliveagain

[revelations]

nightmare01

Please allow me to be a little blunt about your situation that you find yourself in. I am going to lay out a few things to you that are not intended to hurt you or insult your WW, however they are to help you gain a better perspective. First off I will talk about women in general, mind you this does not mean all women just a good chunk of them. Remember also that what I am going to state is from my own observation and experiences with women and the family courts.

 

Now I am a couple of generations younger than you and trust me when I say the women of my generation or worse not better than yours. Women tend to have one man (often referred to as the beta provider) that she marries. Then she will have other men that she has either dated in the past or currently while being married. This is commonly referred to as Alpha plays and beta pays situation. Usually women compartmentalize what they are doing, I.E. they are living the life of the loving wife at home and being the slut around town with other guys. Being that women of my generation have been encourage to feel self-entitled and are usually narcissistic this helps with being able to live the separate lives they do.

 

The man that she is married to is important to her, however not in the way that we might think. He is important because he provides that stable home for her and offers security. However more times than not she is not satisfied in the bedroom with him. A lot of times this is her own fault, she will usually offer what is referred to as vanilla sex to her husband and nothing more and even put limits on this. She has herself in the roll of a house wife with him and house wives do not do those things. So she goes out and does all them naughty things with other men. Peer pressure and feminism encourage her to do this, after all she is entitled to have a good sex life. If she is discovered doing this and wants to keep her husband crying a bit and making promises will usually keep divorce at bay. If not it still does not matter. She can take just about everything from her husband in court so she still gets to see the OM and chances are her xBH will be footing the bill for it. Okay you may not believe me, however make a simple fake dating profile on okcupid and just look at the questions women answer their. One question I am referring to is

"If you're in a relationship you expect will last for the rest of your life, is it important to you that it be the most satisfying sexual relationship you have ever had?"

Now look at how many women answer "NO" to this question. The reason is that they are looking for a wallet and not a good mate all around. The good sex they can get elsewhere and if discovered they will be rewarded for their indiscretion. Most women that I have interacted with today think no more of their boyfriends or husbands than a walking ATM or accessory they wear. Men are viewed as something to be used and discarded when they become inconvenient, today a man is totally disposable to a woman. I can not tell you how many times I have over heard women talking about their husbands as if he was some sort of pet or that they had to put him in his place because he got up on the furniture. Look up about the mens rights movement or Men Going Their Own Way. I also want to make it clear that this is not about being bitter towards women or anything like that. This is what I have seen and experienced myself. The family courts are extremely anti-male in the states and this perpetuates the self-entitled, narcissistic traits of women today. Remember today's woman can do no wrong it is only the men.

 

Okay off of my soapbox about today's woman and on to you my friend. However I do want to encourage you to not believe a word above that I wrote and instead look up these things for yourself, it is a real eye opener. I wrote all that out because I really do feel for you. You are now in your 60's and stuck with a woman that you are probably feeling very used by. In truth you have been used by her, you provided a stable home and all of that for her and your kids and she repaid this by having an affair and showing no remorse for it. I really don't know you at all, however I am willing to bet that you are worth a lot more than this. You have been an honorable man to a woman that has no clue what the definition of honor is. I say it is time to step up and treat yourself with the honor and respect that you deserve and have not gotten.

 

In your case I would strongly recommend divorce. Yes I know, once in court they will divide everything equally in their eyes. She will get all the cash and assets and you will get the bills. Of course you have no time to rebuild your retirement and you could me really screwed. However you do have an advantage, and that advantage is that you WW thinks she is safe. This is the time to cash out that retirement and start hiding as much cash as you can. You can move that cash to a close trusted friend that will not give you up or family member. If this is not possible then I would suggest getting a small strong box and bury the cash in the desert if need be. Point is that the courts cannot take what they cannot find. While you are hiding your cash you can explain this away by gambling or getting taken advantage of. You may appear to be a bit dumb, however this also works in your favor.

 

Start looking into other states that are retirement friendly places, such as Florida, Arizona, Nevada to move to. I do not know what kind of cash that you have, however I would not suggest going to these places and buying a home worth $200k. This sets off too many red flags and of course you will be caught before you escape. Instead look into starting an LLC in a different state from where you live at now. Once you have that use it to buy yourself a small travel trailer or 5th wheel. Get yourself a P.O. box in that state you have chosen to retire to and rent a small space for your trailer. Of course get your license and such transferred to that state. Now we are set, money is hidden, LLC is set up and you have gotten your trailer in the name of the LLC. Now it is time to walk out and file for divorce. Once you are in the court room you may be tempted to be generous with your xWW and I would suggest not to do this. Believe me the courts will be more than generous on her behalf. However that small trailer that they found out you moved into, maybe even the LLC they have discovered will present a whole new set of problems for the court. With the LLC being in a different state and the trailer being in another makes going after even that a nightmare. The value of a used trailer is usually under $30k and if your careful it can be lower than $15k. This makes trying to take it from you not worth the effort. That money they know you have but cannot find, well your a bad man because you have a gambling problem, maybe someone took advantage of you and your ashamed. These are just idea's for you, however the point is to try and keep as much of your retirement as possible and get rid of that WW.

 

Now let's say that you do decide to divorce and it works out that you have not been taken to the cleaners. What do you do then? Your all alone with no WW at your side. Now you need to start treating yourself, after all you are a good person that has had a bad marriage. Take that trailer and go on some trips, make sure to take that tackle box and fishing pole with. Enjoy your life and have some fun. Travel and go see some nudie bars while your at it, nothing get's your mind off of your problems like seeing a 22yr old woman's boobs. Heck some of these women will be sympathetic to your situation, so this is a good time to have some adult fun with them. Your life is about 2/3rds over with, so please my friend do stuff to enjoy the rest of it with, I feel that you deserve it. I do not care if you just enjoy reading, or fishing or banging some stripper, the point is have some fun for yourself.

 

Okay let's be real for a second and let's say that what I have outlined is not possible at all for you to do. Heck I know I have been wrong before, so let's say that I am wrong about hiding your cash and such. I would still encourage you to go out and enjoy your life. You can still get a trailer or small RV and travel a bit. However I would suggest doing this without the WW being with you. Do your travel alone and enjoy those fish you catch or the places you see. I would also still suggest to hit the strip clubs and even have a few flings with those women, heck go to NV and visit a brothel or two. Most people on here will say that a revenge affair is wrong, and truthfully they are right on that. An RA is to hurt the WW or WH, so that they feel the same pain as you. In your case this is not about revenge, this is about you enjoying yourself and nothing more. Ahh but your still married and this means that doing this is wrong. I say bullsh*t to this, the fact is that your WW broke your marriage contract the minute she became a WW. You are honoring a contract that if it was anything else except a marriage, you would have been released from and compensated for.

 

Most people on here will go out of their way to protect a WW and a marriage. I can actually be very pro marriage if the WW is showing true remorse and taking responsibility for their actions. Sadly this does not seem to be the case for you and leaving can be very costly to you. I really hate to see men pay the price both emotionally and financially for the fun their WW's got to have. Women need to be held responsible for cheating just like the men are. Yes I know their are men who cheat and all that, however if that BW goes to divorce court the WH does pay a price for what he did. For me I am past the point of trying to win the favors of women, no more will I be their little pet. Getting laid is easy and if I want companionship I will adopt a dog. Woman use sex all the time to get what they want or manipulate men. They will marry, cheat on, them dump a guy and collect alimony and child support from that BH. I have actually overheard women bragging to each other about the settlements they got after cheating on their BH. It is time we give women the men that they deserve which is NONE.

 

OP sorry this is such a long post, however your situation really struck a nerve with me. No matter what you do I wish you all the best and I encourage you to read up about what I have stated here. I want you to know that you are not disposable and I value the wisdom of older men like yourself. I have been blunt about my opinion and I really don't care what the rest of the people on LS think of it. I just want the OP to have some joy in his retirement years, after all he has earned it.

[revelations]

thebowery:

 

Truthfully the laws do vary from state to state. Some states have a time limit from when the infidelity had occurred while other states you are automatically the presumed father. I read an article not too long ago were they were expanding this "presumed father" law to include men that were not married and not cohabiting with the mother. Basically the courts will select who the determine to be the best father based on current income and future income. They are truly trying to enslave half of the population based on gender. Think of it, why do you think that they will not make it a law to get a paternity test done when any child is born?

 

From what I read on your post I don't know if their is much you can do. They will come after you for that child support same as if it was actually your kid. Sad thing is that with today's current laws your WW can have all of her kids by different OM's and you will not only be on the hook for child support but labeled a dead beat dad if you cannot pay for them all. Women do this all the time and then ask "where have all the good men gone". You can feel free to PM me anytime, however in your case if you have a WW that has OM's child you might want to just lay low. Remember leaving her means 18yrs plus of child support enforced to the point of jail time for you. Myself I would just stay put, talk with a lawyer to find out your options if you do X, Y, or Z. I would use that time while the kid is growing up to save my money and plan my escape. Having friends that would be happy to hide a strong box for you comes in handy at these times. However a savings account in your name only can work, only because the WW is unaware of your intents. It is best that the WW be kept in the dark about the savings. Remember that once the kid is out of the house your WW can no longer collect child support on the kid.

 

The only other option is to flee the country to another country, preferably one that does not have an extradition treaty. It amazes me at times what liberties will be taken away in the name of the children. Their is a quote that goes something like this "The people will endure almost anything if it is done in the name of the children". Now I don't remember for sure who said it, but it was either Joesph Stalin or Adolf Hitler. Kind of gives you an idea of the people we are dealing with.

 

Now often times people will correctly point out that it is not the kids fault, after all they are not to be blamed for their mothers mistakes. I say that this does hold true, however does this mean that the BH is to be held accountable for his WW's mistake? Men have absolutely zero reproductive rights. The only thing that men can do is get a vasectomy, condoms or keeping it in your pants. However that is not full proof, if you are drugged and your sperm is stolen you are still on the hook for child support. So back to the original point that it is not the kids fault. However are we suppose to strip another person of his rights in favor of another person? The kid did not ask to be born, nor did the BH ask that his WW get pregnant by OM. The way the laws are that BH pays at both ends for what his WW did to him. If he leaves then he becomes a slave, and yes he is a slave. He is being forced to work and give what he produced to another person.

 

This is why so many men have stopped getting married and the numbers are growing. Think about it, who in their right mind would sign such a contract? You get married and your wife can cheat on you anytime she wants. If you leave her because she broke the marriage contract she gets at least half of everything. If her cheating results in child you will have to pay for that kid or kids also. Any man getting married has effectively signed up to be a slave at his wife's whim. Now I will not say that all women are bad or will do something like this. It is just that they have the power to do it. Heck I have read about some WW's on here that actually would be a model wife had they not cheated. The problem is that the few good women out their have their voices drowned out by all of the bad ones out their.