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Is it unethical to encourage divorce if you are crushing

TalesoftheWireMonkey

By TalesoftheWireMonkey
in General Relationship Discussion

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TalesoftheWireMonkey Established Member

TalesoftheWireMonkey

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My married friend/coworker comes to me with complaints of how her husband verbally and emotionally abuses her.

 

She talks about leaving.

I've told her she is in a bad environment for her and her child and encourage her to leave.

 

The thing is though:

 

I have a huge crush on her and I don't think she realizes it.

 

I don't really know if it's ethical or moral of me to encourage her to divorce if I have a hidden agenda of hoping she'll soon be single?

iiiii Established Member

iiiii

Posted
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If you think she would honestly be better off divorced, then it's not unethical to encourage this.

 

If you think she would honestly be better off trying to reconcile with her husband, then it is unethical to encourage her to divorce, just because you'd rather she was single.

 

Basically, if you're giving the same advice you'd give if you didn't have a crush on her, it's ethical.

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Arieswoman Established Member

Arieswoman

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TWM,

I agree fully with iiii, your advice should be the same regardless of how you feel about her. If she is a good friend and colleague then you should be interested in her wellbeing and advise accordingly.

d0nnivain Established Member

d0nnivain

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It's more ethical than being her cheating partner.

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KathyM Established Member

KathyM

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I would suggest that, when she lays her marital troubles on you, you suggest she go to a marriage counselor to figure out what she wants to do about her relationship. Do not be the guy whose shoulder a married woman cries on, because it creates an intimacy that is wrong at this point, and can be destructive. A lot of people say they are verbally abused, but when you find out the nature of it, you sometimes see that it is going two ways and is merely couples engaging in arguments, or the one partner believes her spouse has an aggressive tone in his voice. Don't jump to conclusions about what is going on in their marriage, and don't get involved in what is going on. You should not be her confidant. Any time she starts revealing personal details about her negative interactions with her husband, then tell her "You really should be talking to a marriage counselor about this. I don't think I should be the person you confide in about this." You have to set and maintain a boundary with this woman. Do not be the cause of her marriage breaking up. You need to stay out of her marital troubles.

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AnneT1985 Established Member

AnneT1985

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I agree completely with KathyM

  • 1 month later...
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TalesoftheWireMonkey Established Member

TalesoftheWireMonkey

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I want to update this post:

 

There is definitely emotional or verbal abuse going on that she has told me in more detail. She has now admitted there is some physical abuse too after I saw the evidence.

She has already told him she wants to leave and is planning to. I think since then the home environment has become toxic. (I think it's only lack of money that is keeping her there now.)

 

I was already her confidant before the original post.

I don't want her to feel abandoned if I cut off conversations.

 

I'm not sure she would turn to counseling if I suggested it, but I obviously have a secondary interest.

 

Part of me wants to let her know how I feel and that any advice from me is going to be slanted. But then I think I don't need to complicate her life any further right now by revealing my obsessive crush.

d0nnivain Established Member

d0nnivain

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The last thing a woman trying to break free from an abusive relationship needs is a crush. Sadly, although you are being a good friend, it wouldn't surprise me if you got friend zoned in all of this.

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TalesoftheWireMonkey Established Member

TalesoftheWireMonkey

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The last thing a woman trying to break free from an abusive relationship needs is a crush. Sadly, although you are being a good friend, it wouldn't surprise me if you got friend zoned in all of this.

 

Almost certainly so.:sick:

She's obviously attracted to a roughneck masculine type of man, how she got in dire straits in the first place.

She probably sees me as one of the girls.

I'll patiently support her through this crisis and she'll end-up running to someone just like him or worse.:mad:

 

I got tired of being alone and learned how to become a royal ass and finally had a few girlfriends in my life.

It made me sick of who I had become so I tried to return to being a nice guy.

Predictably I've ended up in the same eunuch-like roles in women's lives.

carhill Established Member

carhill

Posted
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Friendships are two-way streets.

 

Friendships are also balanced and ethical.

 

I've found a technique which works great for myself when dealing with MW's and that's to be both supportive of them and of their marriage and providing positive examples from my real life interactions with their marriage and how I view them.

 

Now, certainly, if you and this lady have been friends, you know her husband, right?

 

If not, and if a calm review of her words and actions finds her to not be sincerely supportive of your life and times, my advice would be to view this tampon as full and the period is over so move on.

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TalesoftheWireMonkey Established Member

TalesoftheWireMonkey

Posted
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Friendships are two-way streets.

 

Friendships are also balanced and ethical.

 

I've found a technique which works great for myself when dealing with MW's and that's to be both supportive of them and of their marriage and providing positive examples from my real life interactions with their marriage and how I view them.

 

Now, certainly, if you and this lady have been friends, you know her husband, right?

 

If not, and if a calm review of her words and actions finds her to not be sincerely supportive of your life and times, my advice would be to view this tampon as full and the period is over so move on.

 

It started as coworkers so I don't really know the husband, met him briefly a few times.

 

Supportive of me? That's the thing about any relationship with someone who's life is a stir. I don't really have any drama or issues to talk about.

I'd say she does take some genuine interest in my life and would probably be supportive if some crisis came up? But, I simply don't live like that.

alwayshere Established Member

alwayshere

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PLEASE do not tell her how you feel. it will put her in a terrible position.

carhill Established Member

carhill

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It started as coworkers so I don't really know the husband, met him briefly a few times.

 

Supportive of me? That's the thing about any relationship with someone who's life is a stir. I don't really have any drama or issues to talk about.

I'd say she does take some genuine interest in my life and would probably be supportive if some crisis came up? But, I simply don't live like that.

Pick any example of real platonic friends you have, male or female, and compare.

 

We all deal with life's crises; no one is immune. It can be illness, death, divorce, kids, parents, bla, bla. Her situation is nothing new nor exiting, no more than yours is, so interest and care should necessarily be balanced and healthy, not one-sided. Save the rock of Gibraltar stuff for your wife, who's proven her love and loyalty.

 

Been around the block with enough MW's to have learned a few things; the first one, especially, taught the 'encourage divorce' (not) part. Also have been through a few D's with female friends and saw how those went too. Friends were still friends. We deal. The most recent one I couldn't even tell she was going through a D as she remained kind and supportive always

 

IMO, if you choose to remain in contact, keep neutral about the D thing. If you want to do the 'honesty' thing, be direct and explain why you're cutting contact (the crushing part). That will leave no ambiguity, even if a bit painful (probably more for you than her) in the moment. Women tend to have great support networks and we men, although we like to think we're valuable, are just a tiny part of that.

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TalesoftheWireMonkey Established Member

TalesoftheWireMonkey

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Interesting I just got two opposed pieces of advice. One to tell her how I feel, one to not tell her.:confused:

Got to love this forum. :cool:

 

It could be she realizes already? I've posted elsewhere on here but briefly we may be in an "emotional affair" stage. Although I sort of dislike that term.

 

we men, although we like to think we're valuable, are just a tiny part of that.
I like that line carhill. :) So true.

 

For the life of me I don't know why she confides in me?

 

She has often spoken of another female coworker as a very close special friend.

Recently I had a moment alone with this other lady and asked her what she thought of our mutual friends marital troubles.

 

To my surprise she was only barely aware of it and completely clueless on the details( or at least played it off that way).

anika99 Established Member

anika99

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Almost certainly so.:sick:

She's obviously attracted to a roughneck masculine type of man, how she got in dire straits in the first place.

She probably sees me as one of the girls.

I'll patiently support her through this crisis and she'll end-up running to someone just like him or worse.:mad:

 

I got tired of being alone and learned how to become a royal ass and finally had a few girlfriends in my life.

It made me sick of who I had become so I tried to return to being a nice guy.

Predictably I've ended up in the same eunuch-like roles in women's lives.

 

 

 

There's a difference between genuinely being a nice guy or acting the role of nice guy but having ulterior motives. The bolded reads as though you are acting the part of supportive platonic friend but you have the expectation that if she does leave her husband she will enter into a romantic relationship with you and the little angry emoticon implies that you will be miffed if that isn't the outcome. That's not being a nice guy, that's trying to worm your way in through the back door rather than just being upfront and straight with her. Women commonly reject men who use that tactic not because they don't want a nice guy but because they don't like feeling manipulated.

 

 

Given the nature of your feelings and intentions I don't think you should be advising her on her marriage other then to get counselling and to keep herself safe. Even if she does decide to leave and divorce there is a lot of emotional processing to be done upon ending a marriage and it wouldn't be healthy for her to jump right into a relationship with you anyways. Find a single girl to be attracted to and then let that girl know you are attracted to her and ask her out on a date. Don't pretend to be a platonic friend in the hopes that she will develop romantic feelings for you because that ain't going to happen and truly nice guys don't do that sneaky stuff. Don't tell the MW how you feel because she is not in a position to handle that right now.

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TalesoftheWireMonkey Established Member

TalesoftheWireMonkey

Posted
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There's a difference between genuinely being a nice guy or acting the role of nice guy but having ulterior motives. The bolded reads as though you are acting the part of supportive platonic friend but you have the expectation that if she does leave her husband she will enter into a romantic relationship with you and the little angry emoticon implies that you will be miffed if that isn't the outcome. That's not being a nice guy, that's trying to worm your way in through the back door rather than just being upfront and straight with her. Women commonly reject men who use that tactic not because they don't want a nice guy but because they don't like feeling manipulated.

 

 

Given the nature of your feelings and intentions I don't think you should be advising her on her marriage other then to get counselling and to keep herself safe. Even if she does decide to leave and divorce there is a lot of emotional processing to be done upon ending a marriage and it wouldn't be healthy for her to jump right into a relationship with you anyways. Find a single girl to be attracted to and then let that girl know you are attracted to her and ask her out on a date. Don't pretend to be a platonic friend in the hopes that she will develop romantic feelings for you because that ain't going to happen and truly nice guys don't do that sneaky stuff. Don't tell the MW how you feel because she is not in a position to handle that right now.

 

I've about had it up to here with this attitude that nice guys are all either sexless nerds or sneaky manipulators trying to seduce women on the sly!!!:mad:

 

What is the matter with being a friend and a lover?

 

What is the matter with you women that have to put men into two camps?

 

No wonder there is so much frustration and animosity between the sexes anymore!

 

Can you women not understand that if someone likes you and is attracted to you they want to treat you nicely, be helpful, care about your feelings and your welfare. That doesn't negate that they are sexual beings with desires and lust just like the bad boys.

 

What you are really saying is that shy, sweet, nice men don't arouse you sexually and they better not dare display any sexual attraction because you find them repulsive.

 

:mad::mad::mad:

 

 

In this particular case I was friends with this woman long before I started to be romantically attracted to her.

 

I tend not to tell married women that I have the hots for them in an "upfront and straight" way . It tends to not make their husbands day for some reason?:confused:

 

The angry emoticon was to display my anger at her potentially making the same mistake over again regardless of whatever does or doesn't develop with me.

alwayshere Established Member

alwayshere

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Telling a vulnerable woman who is trying to end an abusive marriage that you have feelings for her is selfish. A friend would not ADD to her emotional load.

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TalesoftheWireMonkey Established Member

TalesoftheWireMonkey

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Telling a vulnerable woman who is trying to end an abusive marriage that you have feelings for her is selfish. A friend would not ADD to her emotional load.

 

That's what I was leaning towards but as you see above I get labeled a sneaky creep.

If I set a boundary that I don't want to talk about her home life I think she will be hurt, and feel rejected by someone she feels comfortable confiding to.

alwayshere Established Member

alwayshere

Posted
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That's what I was leaning towards but as you see above I get labeled a sneaky creep.

If I set a boundary that I don't want to talk about her home life I think she will be hurt, and feel rejected by someone she feels comfortable confiding to.

 

Disclaimer - I know not everyone will agree

 

I think that if you can objectively listen and focus on the topics of her keeping herself safe, protecting herself legally, etc. you will be fine. I WOULD avoid and physical demonstrations of support (hugs, holding, etc), If you have done this up to know, just explain to her that she is vulnerable, and you want to not muddy the waters, and that you respect her.

 

It isn't creepy to keep your crush to yourself, IMO. IMO, telling her in the midst of her crisis would be more creepy.

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todreaminblue Established Member

todreaminblue

Posted
Posted (edited)

from a moral viewpoint i would have a problem with the fact my motives were indeed ulterior in a nature with a certain amount of personal gain to be had by me in (ill say him) leaving his marriage

 

the problem i can foresee if you had such a conversation with this woman with insistence on her leaving, would be one of the question of or plausible scenario, what if she did leave, and a few months (you wouldn't want to wait too long, in case you missed your chance) you decided that you just had to be with her and therefore made your true intentions known towards her, a natural progression would be how long have you had these feelings...do you lie here? or are you truthful again...lets say for now that you decide to come clean.....

 

 

will she always wonder if you actually had her best interests at heart or the interests of your own heart first, so self serving, and motivated by what you really wanted not what she needed.....

 

 

then she might decide not to pursue a relationship with you for that reason alone or she may ignore that thought for a while.....then one day after you are married to her and one too many times of not taking out the garbage and being thoughtful, it all comes back her you talked her out of a marriage with one supposed by you,an unsuitable man to put her into a marriage with another who considered their own interests more important

 

 

 

gradually a bridge that should have stayed true to form which is( marriage) with you now becomes weakened with doubt.......she has already had a failed marriage....here comes number two looking less than promising....depression sets in fights galore not a pretty picture i know....but i do so still love art for its graceful presence to inspire thought.....

 

to me a prettier picture to draw would be one where you told her she needs counselling, they need to seek professional help family and couples counselling to save their marriage and do everything possible because a union of marriage is sanctified.....and ethically and morally in the hands of god if it can be saved it will be saved if it was never meant to be it will end and then only then could you make your true intentions known free from guilt on an ethical and moral viewpoint...

 

 

but what would i know.....i have never been married ....

 

 

i have however come to a foregone conclusion when my relationships needed to end on an intimate basis, i have however maintained and sustained friendships because i follow my heart now.

 

 

helped i believe by the holy spirit touching my heart telling me in a quiet voice ...you can stop fighting deb he is not for you.....when my ex replied to me (when i asked him the ultimatum question is there nothing to be done then nothing we can do or i can do to keep our family together)...and he just said (no i will always love you i am not in love with you i want to be with her)....the still voice had already told me that was the answer it was just no nothing can be done.,..dreamt it was that exact way, two or maybe three years earlier....but on i fought.....i chose not to listen

 

 

 

when i was completely exhausted(which hardly ever is thank go to above for ging me more of everything i needed and need to be sustained, my life is never going to smoothe i ill always struggle...but i can have joy) with all my responsibilities i had to manage on a daily basis and was very ill, i was set free from feeling responsible for saving or fighting for,the relationship i was in....and i decided to fight for my life instead an di nearly died weak willed and confused by fighting for so long............i wish you well , i hope the abuse stops...make sure she has the support around her to be strong, whatever route she takes.i really hope you may find the woman for you...if it is her then it will happen.deb.

Edited by todreaminblue
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TalesoftheWireMonkey Established Member

TalesoftheWireMonkey

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Thank-you Deb,

I think you see the problem very broadly as I do.

I hope to never marry her for the reasons as you say, I don't know that I would be any better for her in my own way.

I'd like her to be happy with or without me.

 

I know my crushes and how obsessive they can be. But I also know how to eventually let them run their course.

 

I know the white-knighting is setting in too. The worse her stories get the more I want to save her.

 

I should stress here that her marriage isn't new. They've been together something like 20 years I believe. I know the child is 16 at least.

 

I don't know how long it's been bad?

 

alwayhere,

I agree with you. No, no sort of hugging has gone on maybe a pat on the back or arm or something. I do think I need to let her know she needs more help than I can provide short of asking her to move in with me.

 

I don't think she will go to counseling. Partly because she struggles financially and I think she probably has some pride/embarrassment/guilt issues?

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