How should the fWS feel?

[not-so-sure]

I want to feel indifferent about her. My feelings have faded significantly but I feel I am becoming emotionally ambivalent about everything. Including my marriage. I am starting to wonder whether I had an exit affair.

 

Perhaps I am just emotionally spent. This has been a wild ride for me. One that should never have happened.

 

But my feelings about how one should feel about the AP? I wonder in the end whether it really matters. No one gives a **** what you think. It's what you do that people see and if you're outwardly doing what you need to do to preserve what you want then the inner workings are your own thing to deal with.

[anne1707]

What they should feel = indifference

 

What they actually feel = not important

 

I am pretty sure many a fBS would disagree with you on that last one

 

If a person in a 5 year LTR develops a mutual crush for a new a person at work, what would you tell that person to do?

 

1. Break up with the partner to pursue new relationship

 

Or

 

2. Stay with partner, ignore those feelings and be distant from new person, because what the person feels should mean nothing unless they intend on cheating.

 

But I am not talking about a crush. I am talking of what happens after a full affair. And yes maybe ignoring those feelings is a short term solution in the example you have said (I actually think it isn't because you need to look at why you could become interested in someone else) but again I am talking long term after a full affair. Is a WS has had a three year affair, both PA and EA, then it all ends and the fWS reconciles with the BS, are you really suggesting that what the fWS may feel is unimportant? What if they miss the fAP or love the fAP? That is not something that can be ignored and does not make for a truly reconciled marriage.

 

Further entertaining these thoughts will lead to the slow death of the relationship, whether cheating is involved or not, because the person is not 100% in the realtionship.

 

My point exactly hence why it IS important

 

 

 

Creating threads about how you currently feel about the AP (after deciding to R) is just the same as a prospective cheater creating threads about their "new crush".

 

Stop pondering about such things. The AP should not have any space in your mind, otherwise a backslide into another A may happen. I hope this makes sense.

 

So you think I have started this thread because of my feelings for the exAP? Very, very wrong. The reason I started this thread is because I see so many posts which suggest I should be feeling X, Y, Z when I actually feel indifferent.

 

And again you contradict yourself. You say what the fWS feels is not improtant yet you also say that the fWS thinking about the AP ("space in your mind") should not be happening because of backsliding.

[anne1707]

So if the WS is forgiven by their partner, yes you no longer identify them as a scumbag. But it doesn't mean the guy who knowingly breaks up a family isn't a scumbag.

 

I didn't say he wasn't a scumbag but I, as a fWS, am not going to spend my time thinking he is a scumbag when he is in my past. My thoughts and feelings are for my future with my H. The point is that exOM is not important to me anymore.

[dichotomy]

DD was a long time ago, but it was also a long transition in feelings.

 

 

What do I think WW should have felt? At first I guess a mixture of emotions, loss at first (there was some attraction right?), struggles with what AP brought in terms of pleasure, shame at both our marriage violation and his, disgust with herself, how much this really hurt me, recognizing the value of me, fear of loss of me and the marriage dedication to make things right, then perhaps disgust of OM, leading to eventual indifference.

 

What Do I think was actually felt?- Fondness and positive feelings for a long time, lack of regret, "modest" sadness and missing and desire for connection to him, practical understanding that it could not continue or else her good thing/good marriage would end, how much this was hurting her, placing blame on me for overreacting and punishing her (this was huge), after then........after a long long time..... finally seeing she was used by him and he was a worm, and that she was "wrong" to have done this to us. Now finally I guess indifference .....and that the consequences of this affair and OM were negative in her life and marriage to me. So I guess we kind of got there - it just took too long. However, there still are unresolved feelings of her sexual nature and what is good and bad sex in a marriage and relationship(s). That is the last focus we (now she) is working on in therapy.

Edited April 20, 2014 by dichotomy

[Zenstudent]

Threads crop up now and then which touch on how fWS may think or feel about the AP. Sometimes it is how they must surely think fondly. Others are maybe along the lines of feeling disgust. As a fWS of several years now I actually feel neither. I still work with the exOM but he is purely a colleague. In terms of feelings, thoughts, etc, I am indifferent to him.

 

Long term, how do you think a fWS should feel about the exAP assuming that they have reconciled with the BS? And how do you think they actually do feel in reality?

I don't think they should feel anything, if my beliefs had any weight in this regard, my wife wouldn't and shouldn't have betrayed me in the first place. I believe it's more important how she choose to act on her feelings.

 

My wife had a nine month LTA, very much full blown everything that you can imagine, and if she told me that she doesn't feel anything at all besides indifference, I wouldn't believe her - especially not if she sees him frequently or just occasionally, which she doesn't.

 

I think it's close to impossible to be indifferent to something or someone who used to make you feel so good for so long.

[AlwaysGrowing]

I am always surprised how many people feel that affair relationships will forever live in someone's heart because part of it "felt good". When for FWS, it is no different than having been in ANY toxic relationship or environment.

 

Does a person who had a highly dysfunctional childhood take "that time that Mommy hugged me" as what the relationship meant to them? Or do they take how the relationship ultimately impacted them in negative ways? How does one grow from that? How does one ensure that they are not part of that ever again in any capacity?

 

Indifference is where I have ended up in regard to unhealthy relationships. Not indifferent to the event or how it came to be....just indifferent to the person/s involved. I did harbour unhealthy "how could they", "they are....", for much too long. It wasn't until I realized that the only way to free myself from that time/person was to let go of any illusion that focusing on them in any capacity helped me in the slightest. They showed me who they were and now it was my job to ensure that I had tools in place to spot similar persons a mile out, how to nurture my soul so those types didn't have an "in" in the future.

 

Simply put, yes...they were awful human beings....now what? If that is as far as I ever got (which by the way I did), all it does is set one up to be prime pickings for the next awful human being (which I was/did). Once I worked on repairing me...their impact on my here and now was non-existent. They were non/existent or relevant in any regard to my life.

[BHsigh]

I am always surprised how many people feel that affair relationships will forever live in someone's heart because part of it "felt good". When for FWS, it is no different than having been in ANY toxic relationship or environment.

 

Does a person who had a highly dysfunctional childhood take "that time that Mommy hugged me" as what the relationship meant to them? Or do they take how the relationship ultimately impacted them in negative ways? How does one grow from that? How does one ensure that they are not part of that ever again in any capacity?

 

Indifference is where I have ended up in regard to unhealthy relationships. Not indifferent to the event or how it came to be....just indifferent to the person/s involved. I did harbour unhealthy "how could they", "they are....", for much too long. It wasn't until I realized that the only way to free myself from that time/person was to let go of any illusion that focusing on them in any capacity helped me in the slightest. They showed me who they were and now it was my job to ensure that I had tools in place to spot similar persons a mile out, how to nurture my soul so those types didn't have an "in" in the future.

 

Simply put, yes...they were awful human beings....now what? If that is as far as I ever got (which by the way I did), all it does is set one up to be prime pickings for the next awful human being (which I was/did). Once I worked on repairing me...their impact on my here and now was non-existent. They were non/existent or relevant in any regard to my life.

 

Well, maybe one of the reasons that people feel that is because they juxtapose their own pain, pain that feels like it will last forever, onto the entire situation. They may then think that the affair had to be good, why else would the WS risk it, and if my pain lasts so long, why wouldn't the good feeling last just as long.

 

I've never told anyone this, but I am OCD, I expressed the symptoms at around 8 years old, my biggest outward symptom is the need for symmetry, look it up, it sucks, though it is fairly mild in my case. The inward symptoms are much worse, I do think like you described, my uncle punishing me when I didn't do anything when I was 11 years old is still stuck in my head, and at least partially defines him to me, the same for many other family members and friends. This helps me greatly in my college classes, but that is the only benefit that I can see, a slight case of OCD perfectionism.

 

Unfortunately I juxtapose that onto everyone else as well, so logically I understand and agree with you. But in practice I know that the affair will haunt me until my dying day, whether we stay married or not, so the opposite will stick in my head as well, that she has good memories of her A and that (I can't say it here). I try to pretend otherwise, but I know that it will never work, and I have no way to ease this in my mind like I do with the symmetry symptoms.

 

But I would consider myself a worst case scenario, and logically agree with you.

Edited April 20, 2014 by BHsigh

[janedoe67]

I am always surprised how many people feel that affair relationships will forever live in someone's heart because part of it "felt good". When for FWS, it is no different than having been in ANY toxic relationship or environment.

 

Does a person who had a highly dysfunctional childhood take "that time that Mommy hugged me" as what the relationship meant to them? Or do they take how the relationship ultimately impacted them in negative ways? How does one grow from that? How does one ensure that they are not part of that ever again in any capacity?

 

Indifference is where I have ended up in regard to unhealthy relationships. Not indifferent to the event or how it came to be....just indifferent to the person/s involved. I did harbour unhealthy "how could they", "they are....", for much too long. It wasn't until I realized that the only way to free myself from that time/person was to let go of any illusion that focusing on them in any capacity helped me in the slightest. They showed me who they were and now it was my job to ensure that I had tools in place to spot similar persons a mile out, how to nurture my soul so those types didn't have an "in" in the future.

 

Simply put, yes...they were awful human beings....now what? If that is as far as I ever got (which by the way I did), all it does is set one up to be prime pickings for the next awful human being (which I was/did). Once I worked on repairing me...their impact on my here and now was non-existent. They were non/existent or relevant in any regard to my life.

 

To move beyond the "awful human being" hatred mean one has to put aside one's OWN hatred.

 

Quite simply, many BS's do not ever want to put aside the pain they feel for their WS because then they no longer have the upper hand. I am not talking about BS's who want to move forward but are struggling and can't. I am talking about those who make a conscious choice not to.

 

I don't even think about OP. They were horrible choices made in horrible times when I was a horrible person. I'd just as soon not think about them.

[AlwaysGrowing]

To move beyond the "awful human being" hatred mean one has to put aside one's OWN hatred.

 

Quite simply, many BS's do not ever want to put aside the pain they feel for their WS because then they no longer have the upper hand. I am not talking about BS's who want to move forward but are struggling and can't. I am talking about those who make a conscious choice not to.

 

I don't even think about OP. They were horrible choices made in horrible times when I was a horrible person. I'd just as soon not think about them.

 

Another point that is often lost is.....who wants to constantly remind themselves of their own failings? Who can live there forever without great personal self worth issues? How would one ever become a healthier person? Who would want to be with someone who wasn't able to pick themselves up and not live in the past?

 

Why are FWS forever tied to how ever they might have felt about the affair/AP at the time of the affair? Why do they not have the same capacity as everyone else to NOW have a different viewpoint?

 

I understand that those that have no reference point for a remorseful person can/will have a more difficult time believing this. I know I did...until the remorseful person was me.

[anne1707]

Some interesting points being raised

 

Whilst it is essential for the WS to recognise and accept the responsibility for their actions, they need to "move on" from the affair just as they would have to move on from any past relationships from before marriage. It would be wrong for me to be with my H if I still thought fondly of a past bf from before the time I met my H. It would also be wrong if I thought of that ex bf with anger or disgust. If I thought/felt either of these ways about the exOM, it would be even worse.

 

Part of what makes you healthy for relationships is learning from the past but not staying in the past.

[Spectre]

I didn't say he wasn't a scumbag but I, as a fWS, am not going to spend my time thinking he is a scumbag when he is in my past. My thoughts and feelings are for my future with my H. The point is that exOM is not important to me anymore.

 

Exactly, you hit the nail on the head. You can acknowledge a scumbag without really spending any time thinking about that person. For example, I think the actor Gary Busey is pretty damn creepy, but it's not like I spend any actual time thinking about his creepiness, but yeah..if you say to me "Is Gary Busey creepy?" I say "Hell yes, 100%" and that is that. I'm not spending time thinking about it, but I'm still aware of the fact he is a creep.

[janedoe67]

Another point that is often lost is.....who wants to constantly remind themselves of their own failings? Who can live there forever without great personal self worth issues? How would one ever become a healthier person? Who would want to be with someone who wasn't able to pick themselves up and not live in the past?

 

Why are FWS forever tied to how ever they might have felt about the affair/AP at the time of the affair? Why do they not have the same capacity as everyone else to NOW have a different viewpoint?

 

I understand that those that have no reference point for a remorseful person can/will have a more difficult time believing this. I know I did...until the remorseful person was me.

 

Again, because for some people, we FWS's NEED to be forever in pain. it's....fair or something.

[janedoe67]

Some interesting points being raised

 

Whilst it is essential for the WS to recognise and accept the responsibility for their actions, they need to "move on" from the affair just as they would have to move on from any past relationships from before marriage. It would be wrong for me to be with my H if I still thought fondly of a past bf from before the time I met my H. It would also be wrong if I thought of that ex bf with anger or disgust. If I thought/felt either of these ways about the exOM, it would be even worse.

 

Part of what makes you healthy for relationships is learning from the past but not staying in the past.

And part of not staying in the past is not having to - every so often - write an essay about how horrible the AP was to make sure everyone knows you remember what you did.

[tbf]

The point of this thread is to discuss what people think should be the case and what they think actually is the case. The point of this thread is to highlight that there is not a one size fits all model.

 

If you think there is no point to this thread or feel unable to contribute then just pass on by.

My perception is that all three sides of the bizarre triangle have to piss or get off the pot. All this halfway stuff is a waste of time, in that it keeps people from moving on with their lives. By halfway stuff I mean, half trust, half live, obsessively trapped in the past, etc.

[Spectre]

Again, because for some people, we FWS's NEED to be forever in pain. it's....fair or something.

 

No they don't need to forever be in pain. They just need to acknowledge the person they cheated with is slime. It is that simple. People don't deserve an eternity of misery or anything, but it doesn't mean we stop calling a spade a spade.

[Friskyone4u]

I am sorry I do not agree that the AP is AalWAYS a "slime" talk. When I was 23, less than two years out of college, I moved to a city where I knew no one and contacted a girl I knew in college just to say hello . I had no idea her marraige was on the rocks and that just meeting her for lunch would wind up in bed and turn into a regular A. I was a 23 year old kid raging with hormones who a female was making herself more than available with. I do not see how that makes me slime unless those who have that opinion can be confident that at that age all of their decisions were totally correct and morally perfect.

I also think too many times BS deflect blame on OMorOW be a use they still love their part ER and it is the only way to hold out hope for R . The "slime"AP did not force any spouse to have sex with them or to lie to any BS

[janedoe67]

I am sorry I do not agree that the AP is AalWAYS a "slime" talk. When I was 23, less than two years out of college, I moved to a city where I knew no one and contacted a girl I knew in college just to say hello . I had no idea her marraige was on the rocks and that just meeting her for lunch would wind up in bed and turn into a regular A. I was a 23 year old kid raging with hormones who a female was making herself more than available with. I do not see how that makes me slime unless those who have that opinion can be confident that at that age all of their decisions were totally correct and morally perfect.

I also think too many times BS deflect blame on OMorOW be a use they still love their part ER and it is the only way to hold out hope for R . The "slime"AP did not force any spouse to have sex with them or to lie to any BS

 

I would be willing to agree that you are not slime now. At all.

 

But I'm sorry, sleeping with a married woman WAS slimy. That is the real point. The choice to invade someone's marriage is NOT admirable. Period. The choice to cheat is wrong. Period.

[anne1707]

And part of not staying in the past is not having to - every so often - write an essay about how horrible the AP was to make sure everyone knows you remember what you did.

 

Exactly Jane. Plus by doing the above essay, all you would be doing is blame shifting. It is not the exOM's responsibility that I had an affair, it is mine completely.

[Cpt]

I am pretty sure many a fBS would disagree with you on that last one

 

Why should it though Anne? I mean, the fWS chooses to be with the BS, unless the feelings of the fWS torwards the AP are greater than the BS, then I agree. But then would R occur in that situation? Thats my train of thought at least.

 

But I am not talking about a crush. I am talking of what happens after a full affair. And yes maybe ignoring those feelings is a short term solution in the example you have said (I actually think it isn't because you need to look at why you could become interested in someone else) but again I am talking long term after a full affair. Is a WS has had a three year affair, both PA and EA, then it all ends and the fWS reconciles with the BS, are you really suggesting that what the fWS may feel is unimportant? What if they miss the fAP or love the fAP? That is not something that can be ignored and does not make for a truly reconciled marriage.

 

So what if the fWS misses the AP, thats not the BS's problem is it? Tough peanuts for the fWS if they still have feelings for the AP, it should be the fWS' responsibility and burden to deal with those in IC, otherwise the fWS needs to D the BS, why R if its like that?

 

And lol at the idea that its wrong to become interested in someone else while you're married. Its not wrong at all when in this day and age you can sometimes spend more time with opposite sex colleagues than your own spouses, its natural to build feelings... what would need to be analyzed is why would you ACT on that interest, rather than why did you become interested.

 

My point exactly hence why it IS important

 

How long did it take you to become indifferent? and how did you manage to become so?

 

So you think I have started this thread because of my feelings for the exAP? Very, very wrong. The reason I started this thread is because I see so many posts which suggest I should be feeling X, Y, Z when I actually feel indifferent.

 

I don't think that at all, I meant it as a generalisation to those who are not in your shoes, perhaps I should have said "those who take time to post about the feelings they have for their AP" rather than you the OP for creating the thread lol my mistake.

 

And again you contradict yourself. You say what the fWS feels is not improtant yet you also say that the fWS thinking about the AP ("space in your mind") should not be happening because of backsliding.

 

Feelings are uncontrollable, but thoughts are and certainly actions. Having feelings and thinking about those feelings are two different things. If you program yourself to think that those feelings are not important (while dealing with it at IC of course), then it should be smooth sailing torwards R, in regards to this issue you raise

 

See answers in bold ^

 

Good discussion Anne

[Spectre]

Exactly Jane. Plus by doing the above essay, all you would be doing is blame shifting. It is not the exOM's responsibility that I had an affair, it is mine completely.

 

It is not their responsibility true, but if they knew you were married they still played a part. It takes two to tango, and people need to stop thinking it has to be one or the other. You say blame shifting, there is none of that because there is plenty of blame to go around. Two people can be blamed for the same event, it happens all the time.

 

That is the problem I see, attitudes like that. You bring up blame shifting when nobody was ever actually shifting the blame, so why mention it? Simply saying "the person you cheated with is sleazy" doesn't absolve the cheater or anything, it is wrong to assume it would. That is the reason relationships suffer, because for some reason people believe some things have to be one thing or the other, but they can be both.

 

If you knowingly get with someone who is married, it is trashy, plain and simple. There is no nice way to put it, because it is not a nice thing we are discussing. But that never equates to saying you are the ONLY person to blame. Going down that route just sounds like one is trying to skirt around the issue.

Edited April 20, 2014 by Spectre

[OpenBook]

Whilst it is essential for the WS to recognise and accept the responsibility for their actions, they need to "move on" from the affair just as they would have to move on from any past relationships from before marriage. It would be wrong for me to be with my H if I still thought fondly of a past bf from before the time I met my H. It would also be wrong if I thought of that ex bf with anger or disgust.

 

HUH??!? Really? If that is the case, then I'd wager most married folks shouldn't be married. Doesn't everybody have a relationship in their past that was (for awhile anyway) pretty great? Is it really a detriment to the M to have fond memories of a past relationship? To me this is an unrealistic expectation of a human being - almost cruel to expect them to discount all fond memories of previous relationships, just for the sake of preserving the current one.

 

(Of course, when you're talking about an AP who disrupted the present relationship, I would think that would be a whole different ball of wax, simply because of all the negative fallout... not to mention that's not what you signed up for when you took those vows to your present partner.)

 

I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong. You long-term married people are certainly more qualified to make that call than I am. That "fond memories" statement just jumped out at me as a little odd.

[Spectre]

HUH??!? Really? If that is the case, then I'd wager most married folks shouldn't be married. Doesn't everybody have a relationship in their past that was (for awhile anyway) pretty great? Is it really a detriment to the M to have fond memories of a past relationship? To me this is an unrealistic expectation of a human being - almost cruel to expect them to discount all fond memories of previous relationships, just for the sake of preserving the current one.

 

(Of course, when you're talking about an AP who disrupted the present relationship, I would think that would be a whole different ball of wax, simply because of all the negative fallout... not to mention that's not what you signed up for when you took those vows to your present partner.)

 

I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong. You long-term married people are certainly more qualified to make that call than I am. That "fond memories" statement just jumped out at me as a little odd.

 

I guess it depends on just what you mean. Memories are fine, but if you are happily married you shouldn't exactly be sitting there fondly reminiscing about some other dude you used to be with. You can acknowledge a past relationship had good moments without dwelling and getting all nostalgic over it.

[Cpt]

HUH??!? Really? If that is the case, then I'd wager most married folks shouldn't be married. Doesn't everybody have a relationship in their past that was (for awhile anyway) pretty great? Is it really a detriment to the M to have fond memories of a past relationship? To me this is an unrealistic expectation of a human being - almost cruel to expect them to discount all fond memories of previous relationships, just for the sake of preserving the current one.

 

(Of course, when you're talking about an AP who disrupted the present relationship, I would think that would be a whole different ball of wax, simply because of all the negative fallout... not to mention that's not what you signed up for when you took those vows to your present partner.)

 

I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong. You long-term married people are certainly more qualified to make that call than I am. That "fond memories" statement just jumped out at me as a little odd.

 

Misunderstanding here. You confused "having fond memories of ex" with "thinking fondly OF ex". You can have memories, but I agree that if you have not moved on from a past lover, don't get into a new relationship.

[sunburned]

I guess what I am trying to say is that surely for a reconciled marriage, isn't real indifference the preferred option? Even thinking someone is a scumbag because of the affair is still some kind of emotional investment in the affair.

 

Ugh. Do you really believe this? Just when I thought I was doing well ... well, this stinks. One of the "tips" I picked up here on LS many mos ago was reframing how you think about xAP. I stopped thinking of him as funny, sexy and talented at our shared hobby/interest. I began to think of him as a scumbag. While never losing sight of my own poor behavior and boundaries, I reminded myself he made a fool of my H, that he probably just wanted to get one over on my H due to his own insecurity and jealousy of H. This really helped me think of him as scum. It still does. Does that mean I am emotionally invested in my former A? I don't think so.

[Furious]

Threads crop up now and then which touch on how fWS may think or feel about the AP. Sometimes it is how they must surely think fondly. Others are maybe along the lines of feeling disgust. As a fWS of several years now I actually feel neither. I still work with the exOM but he is purely a colleague. In terms of feelings, thoughts, etc, I am indifferent to him.

 

Long term, how do you think a fWS should feel about the exAP assuming that they have reconciled with the BS? And how do you think they actually do feel in reality?

 

 

Hmmm..I don't see where indifference excludes rational hindsight.