When we try to justify affairs

[yellowmaverick]

People are motivated to do all sorts of things in life. Some of those things are justified, and others are not.

 

Everyone wants to feel 'right' in what they decide to do. That simply is not the case.

 

When you look at those decisions you have to understand what specifically influenced that particular decision. It is very easy to sit back and say, "that was the right/wrong decision." It is a very different thing to understand why that decision was made. We all like to jump to conclusions. "You are wrong!" That is not the issue at all.

 

 

For some people, cheating is the wrong answer, all the time, no exceptions. The decision to cheat is made because the cheater did not have the character or integrity to make a more honorable choice. Cheaters are not faced with any more turmoil or temptation than noncheaters.

[Realist3]

For some people, cheating is the wrong answer, all the time, no exceptions. The decision to cheat is made because the cheater did not have the character or integrity to make a more honorable choice. Cheaters are not faced with any more turmoil or temptation than noncheaters.

 

 

I'm not trying to insult you, but that is such a simpleton view. I really do mean that. You are taking one aspect, the right or wrong, and placing that above all else. We will all agree that cheating is wrong.

 

I will say it again, you are missing the issue. What motivates someone to do something that is considered 'wrong'.? There are reasons for those decisions, whether they are 'justified' or not is beside the point.

[aliveagain]

Your word is your credit card of life , that was told to me by on of the wealthiest men in all of Canada, a self made billionaire and my mentor. You can take my word to the bank. What it really comes down to is what is your word worth? Do you stand behind it, do your children, family, friends and business associates respect it or has it become as worthless as used toilet paper?

[yellowmaverick]

I'm not trying to insult you, but that is such a simpleton view. I really do mean that. You are taking one aspect, the right or wrong, and placing that above all else. We will all agree that cheating is wrong.

 

I will say it again, you are missing the issue. What motivates someone to do something that is considered 'wrong'.? There are reasons for those decisions, whether they are 'justified' or not is beside the point.

 

Not insulted at all. I would be much more offended if I found myself agreeing with you.

[txgrl]

Totally agree with you when you say cheaters are not faced with any more turmoil or temptation than noncheaters . It is how they handle those situations . It was my lack of integrity and my wrong choice to have an A . On fact a string of poor decisions and an insistence on lack of morality and integrity .

 

Nothing that anyone says here or anywhere else will convince me otherwise . I learned my lesson the hardest way possible . There should be no cheating in a marriage , in any way, form or shape . It is just not acceptable .

 

Realist, I've liked many if your posts . I just don't agree with your reasons or justifications or excuses to cheat . There are NONE. I still donot understand why you cannot D your w and the other lady D her H so that you two can get together if you two feel that the compatibility and chemistry are so high?

People who want to divorce , do so and kids and finances donot stop them .

 

Out of interest , how many kids are there between the two if you? 6? Just curious .

[Charlie Harper]

I think a lot of the these infidelity threads you can put them in 2 categories: Either you justify your actions and your dreams built on a GIGS scenario or You need to burn someone like a witch because he is a liar, immature and deserve all kinds of hell.

 

In reality there are a lot of gray areas and its seldom black or white.

 

My A was something I never ever dreamed of I was completely faithful for 23 years 4 months, coming from a guy who used to multi date, with lots of women-friends, and very popular, believe me its quite a feat !!! Even a lot of my friends said after 10 to 15 years of marriage they could not believe I was so "settled" and even some tried to "test me" if I was really faithful.

But my wife basically put me in a refrigerator for 8 years, and even then I was happy, then I met my AP, we started as friends, and became friends for 2 years, no diferent form other female friends I had, the only difference she had, was that she was married and not divorced. We grew close but there was no advances, no physical touch etc.... she told me I was a very special person and a friend she never had before, I took it as compliment, then She kissed me, and I was surprised, I told her it was wrong and I really liked her and loved her as a friend but we were married and we could no get into another type of relationship. 3 months later we talked and she told me that she believed my wife did not love me (for some reasons I wont go into), I thanked her for the advice but I was pissed. 1 month later I entered ICU because a kidney stone and was hospitalized, after I had a big scare and possibly Cancer, my wife left me alone in the hospital, did not go when I had to I posponed the procedure twice because she was "busy", and basically had more important stuff to do!!!

I was depressed, I healed and talked to her and she dropped the bomb, she had an affair 8 years prior that lasted over a year...now I WAS DEPRESSED, so in therapy I decided to save my marriage, I bought her a new car, she despised my effort, I took her on vacations to exotic locations, and she was distant, the honeymoon I promised for our 20 anniversary she insisted on taking my sons, thus boycotting the whole thing....after 2 years of trying and feeling lonely, used and sad, I succumbed to my friend, we had a 2 year A it was more about the friendship and being togheter than sex, it was fantastic we were so much in love...but after 2 years one day we talked knowing we were so enamored of each other that we would be discovered and hurt a lot of people, so we broke up like that and went N.C. now its been a year and 16 days of it, it was so painful and difficult but we kept our promises.

She is not very happy on her marriage but I admire her courage to make it work. In my case I am in the middle of divorce and trying to make sense of things that dont make sense, but now when I hear of someone cheating, I dont go judging, because deep down I know maybe they never wanted it, but since I dont know the 100% of the story I prefer to think they had good reasons to do so.

[Realist3]

Reasons are not justifications. They are two completely different things.

 

I can have reasons to do something that is justified. I can also have reasons to do something that is wrong. The moral judgement on those decisions in either case don't really speak to the issue.

[Realist3]

Affairs are such a nebulous topic. Each one is very different than the next. Yes, on these boards we love to cite how everything is so similar, but they aren't. We can look at the macro, and say , "Yep, yep yep.", but the micro is really the meat.

[AlwaysGrowing]

I think for most to use the word reason removes accountability.

 

There really is no reason to have an affair and hurt other people...it is within ones control to not hurt others.

 

There are however a million and one excuses/justifications one can come up with that they had no other options but to hurt others.

[hard2c]

Dr.Harley says that we are hard wired for affairs. By exposing the affair we can then forgive and work "on watering the grass", cultivating a new loving marriage.

[purplesorrow]

Dr.Harley says that we are hard wired for affairs. By exposing the affair we can then forgive and work "on watering the grass", cultivating a new loving marriage.

 

I completely disagree. When I had issues that I needed to address I took the time to talk to my spouse. I had times of anxiety and depression during some of those times. I chose counseling, meditation and sometimes meds to help me cope. I never once thought strange penis would be the answer.

[fellini]

I think any discussion about infidelity / cheating that turns entirely on words like reasons, justifications is clearly trying to EXPLAIN decisions.

 

Decisions can be emotional. Decisions can be logical. As human beings we MAKE many more emotional decisions than we realise.

 

Then, weird enough, humans show an incredible capacity to explain an emotional decision in logical terms. Especially when forced to.

 

If someone's is NOT in control of, or cognizant that their emotions are driving their decisions, asking them for a justification is an error. It allows them to continue the illusion that they cheated for reasons, not to satisfy their emotional decision.

[fellini]

Well considering that Marriage is an institution invented by "special interest" groups, I doubt we are hard wired for affairs. That we might not be hard wired for monogamy would be a more likely alternative.

 

But I think the debate on monogamy is still open. Even though, it is the institution of marriage as it stands, and the expectations which creates the space for infidelity to occur, not our internal code. A whole other ball of wax is the meanings we ascribe to infidelity. This is not genetic by any means.

 

I completely disagree. When I had issues that I needed to address I took the time to talk to my spouse. I had times of anxiety and depression during some of those times. I chose counseling, meditation and sometimes meds to help me cope. I never once thought strange penis would be the answer.

[fellini]

Here is an interesting explanation about why the justifications NOT to cheat (and all the social weight behind it) FAIL, ultimately, to be taken into consideration when deciding NOT to stop entering into an affair.

 

I choose my words like that because I have a strong feeling that the question is not Why did you decide to enter into an affair, it is more why did you decide NOT to stop yourself. I believe the difference is more than subtle.

 

Why Logic Always Fails You

[road]

I don't read very many posts here trying to justify the affair. You do on the other hand read posts where reasons are given for choosing to have the affair. Those are two very different things.

 

 

 

One in the same.

[road]

Who're we kidding? The more I read on the infidelity and OW/OM boards , the sadder I feel . In my own 4 year A, even during the A, I could never justify it I myself . Sure, I tried to come up with all kinds of excuses but really there are NONE. I wish I had never gone down that path of hypocrisy and lack of character .

 

I see so many excuses being presented on these forums to engage in and continue As, it's appalling and heartbreaking . There really is a black and white when it comes to fidelity in M.

 

Just a thought ... A hope that people will read these forums and try and find reasons to end their As..

 

 

 

Kidding yourself back during the affair. That is who.

 

 

You did justify your affair. You had conflict but your justifications kept you banging your OM.

[Realist3]

 

 

 

Realist, I've liked many if your posts . I just don't agree with your reasons or justifications or excuses to cheat . There are NONE. I still donot understand why you cannot D your w and the other lady D her H so that you two can get together if you two feel that the compatibility and chemistry are so high?

People who want to divorce , do so and kids and finances donot stop them .

 

Out of interest , how many kids are there between the two if you? 6? Just curious .

 

6 kids. Just saying that scares me.

 

I don't recall ever saying there was a justification for cheating. In fact I have stated flat out that there aren't any. What I have said is that there are reasons why people do make the decision to cheat.

 

Re: finances. It is a big complicated mess for both of us. Between us there are 83 pieces of property and 5 businesses. With a lot of expensive lawyering that could be worked out. Still would be messy. The bigger issue is social fallout.

[Realist3]

One in the same.

 

No, they aren't the same at all.

 

Justification means "I was 'right' in doing this because of this."

 

A 'reason' for making a choice does not in an of itself carry a right or wrong justification. The reason could be either or.

 

Let's put it another way. I can have an affair which I know is wrong, but I have a reason for doing it. That doesn't mean that it is justified.

 

There is a reason why my daughter lied to me about going to Starbucks to see her boyfriend instead of her girlfriends as she told me. The reason she made that choice is valid, but it is not justified. She knew I would not have allowed it. That was the reason for the lie.

 

The reason why someone makes a decision is important, whether justified or not.

[txgrl]

I didn't keep banging the OM . We got together once in four years although I had the opportunity to meet with him many times . I'm not trying to minimize the damage that I did but I do think that some of you before you post , really should put some thought and compassion in your comments .

[janedoe67]

Kidding yourself back during the affair. That is who.

 

 

You did justify your affair. You had conflict but your justifications kept you banging your OM.

 

Yeah, and now she is changed. What's your point?

 

My choice to become too close to someone outside my marriage cannot be justified. My choice to have sex with someone outside my marriage cannot be justified. My choice to rebel against my values and have an affair cannot be justified. My choice to break a sacred marriage vow cannot be justified. My choice to lie and deceive cannot be justified. Period. Never.

 

------

 

His choice to unilaterally decide the intimate portion of our marriage cannot be justified. His choice to sneak around looking at porn and chatting with people cannot be justified. His choice to blow through all our savings while sitting at home taking liberties with my life cannot be justified. His hiding thousands of dollars in gaming spending cannot be justified.

 

They are two separate issues. His problems do NOT justify my choice to cheat.

 

My choice to cheat does NOT negate his problems.

 

It isn't hard to see unless you choose to be blind.

[HermioneG]

I'm not trying to insult you, but that is such a simpleton view. I really do mean that. You are taking one aspect, the right or wrong, and placing that above all else. We will all agree that cheating is wrong.

 

I will say it again, you are missing the issue. What motivates someone to do something that is considered 'wrong'.? There are reasons for those decisions, whether they are 'justified' or not is beside the point.

 

Not harming others is never beside the point.

 

Thank you for demonstrating the difference.

[Appreciate]

Not harming others is never beside the point.

 

Thank you for demonstrating the difference.

 

^ I agree.

 

This is exactly the point, Realist.

 

It's not about what's morally right/wrong, it's about inflicting an incredible amount of injury and pain on another person. Cheating is murder of a union, and for the betrayed it feels murder of the soul. At least for those who truly love their WS. Many betrayed people compare the feeling to torture, death, and the trauma that comes from that. I remember times when I would have preferred my WW had died, or that I had died. The pain is that intense. I don't know if that's the case for your BS, but that's the case for a lot of people. It's one of the most stressful possible events in life.

 

You can't feel that pain so you don't put it on the same scale we do. I recognize that the WS feels pain and conflict as well, and one's own pain makes it harder to empathize with another's. But let's be honest .. they are enjoying themselves in the process. They have two pairs of arms to run to if they wish.

[Spectre]

At the end of the day we all come around again to one simple fact: there is no real justification for an affair, period.