Dating and marriage

[ktya]

Hello,

 

I met my boyfriend last June of 2013. He's 45 and I am 40.

 

I told him I loved him 6 months into our relationship. He paused (eeek!!) and finally he said he felt the same but was very guarded with his feelings. He still hasn't told me the magic words. He does all the things a boyfriend does, he helped me move (twice!), put shelves in my new place, we have a good sex life and we get along.

 

Since the get go I have always felt he was holding back though. He was with his ex gf for 9 years and was married once before when he was young. His first wife cheated on him with his best friend, so I know he has trust issues, or at least marriage issues.

 

We both want kids, we did have this conversation, which is great. Today his best friend let the cat out of the bag without realizing it. He said my boyfriend didn't want to get remarried. I do, eventually. Not tomorrow, not next year, but I see that in the future.

 

I am wondering if it's conversation worthy after 9 months of dating. After all he never told me he didn't want to. I did hint at it while watching a show one day, so he probably caught that I do.

 

My instincts tell me to leave the matter alone, at least for a few months, maybe the fall.

 

What do you think?

 

Thank you

 

Marriage is a pretty bad deal for men these days. While not all women turn into money hungry velociraptors when they separate it is more often the case than not. If he's already been through a divorce he's experienced that soul destroying enterprise from the guy's side and it isnt pretty. Especially if cheating was involved.

 

Not to get into a diatribe trashing the institution of marriage here, but look at the institution of marriage from the guy's eyes...

 

He married a woman he (at the time) truly loved. Then he caught her cheating somehow or someway. Then they got divorced, and she took half of the family assets, likely got primary custody of the kids if there were any, plus alimony. She probably moved in with her affair partner or a different guy after the divorce, so buddy was paying cash to his now ex-wife who is balling another guy and living with him. Icing on the cake is she probably accused him of at least some level of domestic violence during the divorce (womens groups recommend doing that so they can get a restraining order "just in case").

 

So in the end even though he may have been the faithful dutiful husband and his ex wife was the cheater he's still shelling out half his assets, if he had kids he was probably fighting just to get access to them and writing monthly checks equivalent to 20-30% of his income while his ex wife was living it up with some new guy and he heard through the grapevine of her lavish tirades while he was stuck in some crappy apartment eating Kraft dinner.

 

I'm not the same age as he is, I'm 37, but I'm probably in a simillar head space as he is. For a girl to get me even interested in marriage she had better be a pretty phenomenal lady in all ways. I mean a girl who has a great job who makes more than enough money to look after herself who is cute or hot, takes care of her body, and who never tries to change me or complain about me being the me that I am. I look at women extremely pragmatically now, almost evaluating them as I would evaluate someone I was giving a line of credit, which, marrying a woman basically is - you start with a small diamond ring and the expenses go up from there until it is basically a flatline of 50% of whatever you own.

 

I know it kind of takes the magic out of dating for the guy to look at things that way.

 

To be honest I think that they should bring back fault-divorce. If the woman (or the man for that matter) is nailed cheating they should get nothing but their personal belongings. As an institution marriage is a good idea. Unfortunately, the legal system has perverted it so badly that in the long haul the committment isnt worth the paper it's printed on.

[Elle1975]

They had no kids involved. I agree with the other posters. I think he was just content with the situation and I rocked the boat.

 

If I believed in a fair world I'd say it's not fair that I have to pay for another girl's treachery. But I really don't believe in a fair world, or karma, etc.. Unfortunately, it is what it is.

 

I hope to meet someone in the future, however it's way too soon for me to just start looking. Oddly, I would feel like I'm cheating. Stupid, I know.

 

By the way I am divorced myself too, took nothing but what I owed when my marriage ended. I know what you mean though. However, I still believe in the bond of marriage, even after a divorce. There has to be someone for me out there.

Edited April 14, 2014 by Elle1975

[ktya]

Not ready to date yet? I was going to ask for your number, too bad. :-) You can PM it to me. I think you're only a year older than I am from your nick.

[Elle1975]

Not ready to date yet? I was going to ask for your number, too bad. :-) You can PM it to me. I think you're only a year older than I am from your nick.

 

I know you're joking but honestly after spending half my night tossing and turning, dating somebody else is out of the question.

 

I'm seeing him tonight.. I'm dreading.. going through the "Im giving your stuff back and getting mine in boxes" is gonna be awesome.

 

Then I'll go hang out in the breaking up forum and start my no contact. Most exes call at one point, to alleviate guilt, so I'll need pointers.

[Iguanna]

From my point of view, and I know it will sound weird, it's too late to tell him and not too early. When you are at your 30s or 40s there is no room for games anymore. If your plan is kids and/or marriage, then you bring this up on the first date. The man at his 30s or 40s that hears this from a mature woman and get "scared off" just shows his true colors early which is good. It's a great way to "filter" the serious and good guys from the players. My bf knew that my plans were marriage and kids from the get go. He happened to agree with me so he stayed with me. This way he can never say I tricked him into something he was not aware about or I made him do something he didn't want to do. I am who I am, take me or leave me. Since this guy now has taken some hints from you that you want to get married and/or have kids one day, then I think you have pretty much saved it. I too agree that now it's no use to say anything yet. But at 1 year anniversary there is a great opportunity and reason to make your move.

[PegNosePete]

To be honest I think that they should bring back fault-divorce. If the woman (or the man for that matter) is nailed cheating they should get nothing but their personal belongings.

How are you going to prove that? If confessing cheating would mean she gets nothing, then who in their right mind would confess to cheating? Texts, emails or recorded conversations don't mean anything (they could say they discussed it but never did it physically). A court needs 100% proof, which means either a child with a DNA test or some very intimate photos. This is why very few divorces in the UK cite the "adultery" ground. Unless the STBX is willing to sign the papers and confess adultery, you would be very unwise to use it.

[ktya]

I know you're joking but honestly after spending half my night tossing and turning, dating somebody else is out of the question.

 

I wasnt entirely joking.

 

How are you going to prove that? If confessing cheating would mean she gets nothing, then who in their right mind would confess to cheating? Texts, emails or recorded conversations don't mean anything (they could say they discussed it but never did it physically). A court needs 100% proof, which means either a child with a DNA test or some very intimate photos. This is why very few divorces in the UK cite the "adultery" ground. Unless the STBX is willing to sign the papers and confess adultery, you would be very unwise to use it.

 

There is more to fault divorce than adultery. It is more complex than that. No fault divorce means that either party can unilaterally terminate the marriage for any, or no reason whatsoever. The dumpee (more often the man these days as women initiate 60% of all divorces) has no recourse whatsoever and the court simply starts dividing the family assets.

 

In fault divorce, there are several mechanisms. First, if both parties do not unilaterally agree to the divorce and the terms, then the dumper must apply for a divorce and state their grounds upon which they want a divorce to be granted. The dumpee can protest the grounds upon which the dumper requests the divorce, or they can negotiate or go to court. A successful dumpee with good legal advice can hold up the divorce for quite some time, leaving the dumper in legal limbo land whereby they are officially "separated" but still technically and legally "married", which stops the official division of assets. Normally during this limbo land the court may issue orders to ensure that the person with control of the family assets does not liquidate the assets , gift them to other people or squander them recklessly.

 

I know this is way off topic from the OP so Ill drop this topic after this post.

 

Examples:

 

No Fault Divorce:

1. One partner cheats

2. Cheating partner gets caught

3. Victim freaks out

4. Cheating partner files for divorce

5. Half the family assets go to the cheater

 

Fault Divorce

1. One partner cheats

2. Cheating partner gets caught

3. Victim freaks out

4. Cheating partner wants divorce, negotiates with victim

5. They successfully negotiate terms of divorce either through court or negotiation

6. Divorce follows terms negotiated via court or negotation

 

No fault divorce unfortunately makes a marriage not worth the paper it's printed on. There is absolutely nothing to stop one party from terminating the "till death do us part" even for a lame reason like, "I'm not happy".

 

If you want to read a story about how little marriage means these days with no fault divorce, read "Eat, Love, Pray". Its about a successful woman who gets bored in her marriage, leaves and divorces her husband and leaves him with the kids to travel the world and sleep with random foreign men and try out some exotic religions. She doesnt pay any child support either during her globe trotting tirade. The book is a blockbuster best-seller. If you were to interspose a man into that womans role and change the exotic foreign men she has sex with with exotic women, the guy would be lambasted as a deadbeat dad creep, but because its a female she is celebrated for her independence.

 

Anyway sorry OP for the major side track

[Elle1975]

Well there's still a prenup agreement I suppose.

[Babolat]

I am afraid that bringing it up would scare him off.

Would you rather know now, or after investing another 6 months, at the age of 40, then 41?

[Babolat]

He does all the things a boyfriend does, he helped me move (twice!), put shelves in my new place, we have a good sex life and we get along.

 

 

This jumps out at me. I was like this with my ex gf. When she got her apartment she needed a couch so I bought her one. I helped her move once, 2nd time I paid for movers for her. I hung mirrors in her apartment, I made sure she had things like nice kitchen knives, running shoes, hiking shoes, got her flowers on holidays. I was always trying to "take care of her".

 

 

Though, I was never fully committed to the relationship and looking back I never saw her as "the one". I was trying, it just never happened for me.

[Babolat]

Sorry, just read your update post, so mine really do not apply! Good luck to you!

[Iguanna]

I just saw the update, sorry. What the hell was he doing in a serious relationship for 9 months wasting your time knowing you want kids and secondarily a marriage? What an *******. I'd be very upset. That's why we should talk about these things on the first date, and if they get scared off, the hell with them. Men have learnt to drink the milk without paying for the cow (or however you say it in english ) these days and as much as I hate women who rush into marrying the guy when his interest is still hot, I sometimes see that this tactic may be better than waiting and waiting and waiting and being the honest and good person who wants to give him all the time he needs.... (yes, personal story here, I hate it).

[Ruby Slippers]

Elle, I like how mature and positive you're being about all this. I'm sure that great attitude is soon going to attract a great guy who would love to commit to you.

[Elle1975]

Hello.. no problem if you just read the update. I do the same when I read a post, so no biggie

 

Mature? Well thank you. I don't find myself very mature, I'm a wreck, didn't sleep last night, my stomach feels like vinegar, and the bathroom floor looks like a nice dark comfy place.. hmmm

 

What gets to me, now that I "slept" on it, is that he was crying. WTH? Now I'm confused. I don't know if he's throwing a good thing away (well, yes, he is) because he's commitment phobic or if he really was playing me big time.

 

I personally think he knew. Was comfy, I turned up the pressure, and he confessed. I don't want to get hooked on hope and etc.. I deleted his numbers, that I do not know by heart since they were in my cell phone. I don't do facebook and such but for my close family. No circle google thingy, nada.

 

So once I get my stuff, that's it. And then I begin climbing back up the ditch I fell in, slowly. And I know that stupid ditch is more like the freaking mount Everest.

[Elle1975]

I just saw the update, sorry. What the hell was he doing in a serious relationship for 9 months wasting your time knowing you want kids and secondarily a marriage? What an *******. I'd be very upset. That's why we should talk about these things on the first date, and if they get scared off, the hell with them. Men have learnt to drink the milk without paying for the cow (or however you say it in english ) these days and as much as I hate women who rush into marrying the guy when his interest is still hot, I sometimes see that this tactic may be better than waiting and waiting and waiting and being the honest and good person who wants to give him all the time he needs.... (yes, personal story here, I hate it).

 

I am very upset, yes. Some people you ask them how many times they've been in love, they'll tell you "oh, ten times! I loved every single one of my bf/gf!". Me, no.. Not that there is anything wrong with being that way. It's probably easier to get over someone. Maybe it shows optimism as well as generosity. Mine though I can't say I have given it away very often.

[Ruby Slippers]

I had to break up with someone I really loved 6 months ago, and he was bawling his eyes out when I did it. He cared about me in his own way, but that wasn't enough for me.

 

In almost a year, your guy hasn't told you he loves you. And he just told you he doesn't feel the same way about you.

 

You and I both know we're never going to be happy with a guy who's lukewarm about us.

 

Let him figure out his problems on his own. They have nothing to do with you, and you can't fix them.

[Elle1975]

He did say he felt the same way a few months ago, never actually spitted the words out.

 

And I know that his problems and the break up don't reflect on who I am. I do know I made it too easy on him.

 

Ah F... I hate break ups. I hate the first two weeks.. it drags.. tic...tac.. tic..tac..

[Elle1975]

So I have to go pick up my stuff now... ugh

[Phantom888]

Hello,

 

I met my boyfriend last June of 2013. He's 45 and I am 40.

 

I told him I loved him 6 months into our relationship. He paused (eeek!!) and finally he said he felt the same but was very guarded with his feelings. He still hasn't told me the magic words. He does all the things a boyfriend does, he helped me move (twice!), put shelves in my new place, we have a good sex life and we get along.

 

Since the get go I have always felt he was holding back though. He was with his ex gf for 9 years and was married once before when he was young. His first wife cheated on him with his best friend, so I know he has trust issues, or at least marriage issues.

 

We both want kids, we did have this conversation, which is great. Today his best friend let the cat out of the bag without realizing it. He said my boyfriend didn't want to get remarried. I do, eventually. Not tomorrow, not next year, but I see that in the future.

 

I am wondering if it's conversation worthy after 9 months of dating. After all he never told me he didn't want to. I did hint at it while watching a show one day, so he probably caught that I do.

 

My instincts tell me to leave the matter alone, at least for a few months, maybe the fall.

 

What do you think?

 

Thank you

 

The fact that he hadn't say "I LOVE YOU" after 3 months should be a RED FLAG. Here we go again...another "Man-child" afraid of commitment. He wants all the benefits of a committed relationship without giving up anything. Unfortunately there are lots of those in their 40s these days. They like the free sex and free companionship, and know that you are too old to leave him because you are desperate.

 

Do not settle. He will not change. If you are okay with that, stay with him. If you want true happiness, leave him and find someone who wants the same as you. Not hard to find. Don't waste time on this selfish man.

[Phantom888]

So, not to sound stereotypical.. but isn't it something that might send it running off to the hills? To be completely honest, that's what is holding me back. Although I understand what you are saying. Like I said, he has an idea of who I am now.

 

If an emotional conversation about love and commitment would send a man running for the hills, would you actually want this man? Seriously? Trust me, I am almost 40, and I was dating for 4 years before I met my fiancee. The moment I met her, I was completely hooked. By 6 months, I knew I wanted to spend the rest of my life with her. Men know for sure by 6 months...don't have to wait a year....because their minds don't change with that extra few months.

[Phantom888]

Sorry i just realized I'm late to the party. I'm glad you made a wise decision. The more you experience the more you learn. Best of luck to you!

[Iguanna]

Elle every ending is a new start. Hang in there girl. Best of luck.

[Elle1975]

Well the positive side to the story is that I got to sit down and talk to him yesterday, as I had to go pick up the rest of my things. Not everybody gets that.

 

I flat out refused to hear it when he mentioned that he would probably find more of my stuff for the next couple weeks and would contact me. I said I did not want him to pop in and out of my life. I know how those things go, you get better, get a phone call, and it's a set back.

 

I have to go to work.. can't explain it all, will do later.

[acrosstheuniverse]

Good for you. I always go NC as soon as possible, if you need the stuff back then a third party can handle it but personally I'd usually rather lose almost any material possession than delay my healing by hearing from them.

 

I usually bring up marriage and kids within the first month or two just so that I'm not wasting my time. Not a heavy duty convo, just asking how they feel about it. I want kids around 30 if my career aligns and would like to get married someday too (I'm 26 now). If I'm with a guy of a similar age and he doesn't want kids until he's 40 I would rather know early that we are not compatible. And a high quality mature man will not be afraid of this discussion, so it acts to weed out some guys too!

 

I also like to talk about sexual health openly too, and make sure we are both tested before condoms come off. And I think that's a good time to discuss what would happen if you found yourselves accidentally pregnant, as again if we are not on the same page then it's up to us to decide if we want to keep sleeping together when that is always a possibility despite using contraception.

[Elle1975]

I do want to see him, call him, email, etc.. but I don't. I have to think with my head. Let's not add humiliation to a break up that I handled pretty well. Didn't beg, didn't whale "but I love you!", etc...

 

I did try to make my case. And basically the reason why he was upset is because he knows we get along, we don't fight, we agree on how kids should be raised, finances, etc.. but he is not in love with me. He said he feels terrible about it.

 

I don't believe everything he said though. I believe he knew he wasn't going to stay with me. Actually had the balls to tell me we could have stayed that way for a couple years till he met somebody else, have I not said anything. I'm upset about that one, I don't like cheating.

 

I did decide to sign up for match.com when I feel ready to date. I am not exactly a social butterfly, work full time, and go to school part time. Busy busy