marcjb Posted April 4, 2014 Posted April 4, 2014 (edited) Hey everyone, I need some advice with this one. Something from a third person's perspective. I am 31 and she is 34 now. First, the history and past: My fiancé and I have been together for about 2 years and nine months now. When we first started dating, I noticed she had pretty much only guy "friends". During the beginning of our relationship I confronted her about this a few times. She said that they were "just friends". I did not really question of she was cheating on me, but more if there was ever anything between any of them before. After about 6 or 7 months, it was the holidays and we were staying at her parents house for the week. We met up with another "friend" who was someone she has been friends with since high school. It was supposed to be him, one of his friends and both of their girlfriends too, but it ended up being just the guys. After the meeting, I confronted her again. I had a feeling in my gut telling me something. I told her I did not have a good feeling about the fact that she mainly had these guy friends. I asked her once more, if there was anything that happened. She then finally told me the truth a week before we met, she was visiting her parents and slept with this high school friend, explaining that she was friends with him for a while and they wanted to see if there was anything between them, and she said she found out that their wasn't. Then she told me that she also slept with her friend John a week before we met too (the three of us have all hung out a few times)… I was in shock… I told her that I was definitely not ok with meeting and being in the same space with guys she's been with before, I would never put her in that position and that I didn't think it was respectful to me if she continued these friendships. She understood and cut them off. Taking all this into consideration. She did have this other friend who was pretty nerdy and was also married (but eventually got a divorce and recently moved to Hawaii) I never had a bad feeling about this friendship. Now, getting into the present: A bit further into our relationship, she mentioned wanting to go back to school to get her degree to become a teacher. I told her that I fully supported her decision (she was a nanny at the time). As she was going to school, she would try and reassure me that there were not really any guys there, then this turned into being a couple of guys she would talk about when talking to me about her day. Then, this turned into being friends with one of them. Then, last year in the summer, she told me that we were invited to a cookout he was having. Given the situation, I have been pretty cool with this. I made the best of it when we went and stuff. She asked me what I thought of him. I told her that I thought he was "alright". A couple months later, her parents came to visit us. They stayed at a hotel (we have a small apartment). On one one of the mornings, we went to go eat breakfast at the hotel with them. She went to the bathroom, then I did after. When I came out of the bathroom I noticed her texting and I got a glimpse of the persons name on her phone which was this "school friend". It seems like she was kind of hiding it from me. I didn't confront her about it. I've been trying to "play it cool" and give her the benefit of the doubt and trust her. Before her parents left, we actually made plans to visit them (and go see Niagara falls) the following week. This is the time that I actually proposed to her. She said yes, but also expressed a bit of worry later in the night, which I talk to her about. She never wanted to take back the engagement or anything like that. Fast forward a bit more, a couple months. We get in to an argument and she told me that she doesn't feel the same about me anymore. She said she loves me, but not "in love" with me. This happened last October. I was in shock. I came down to us taking a break for week (which I suggested). Anyway, she ended up wanting for us to be together, and it has been great since except for one thing... She started interning at a school which I think is great, but guess who's also there interning… her friend from school. I just have a problem with how things escalated from there not being any guys in her school, to there being some, to being friends with one, going to a cookout, her texting with this guy, walking with him from the school to the train on her way home. When we were talking things out after our "break" she told me that she did call this guy once when I was not able to go on an emergency trip to visit her brother due to me having to work, but she stressed there is nothing between them more than a friendship. He is 40 by the way. Why does she have to only make friends with guys? There are also 4 other interns there who are girls. I don't know if they are getting together after school or what… am I right in being jealous about this? Is there anything I should do, or don't do? Why did they even exchange numbers in the first place, and who initiated it? I know that she would be furious with me if the roles were reversed, because she has been upset at me for less before. Why is it ok for a female significant other to have male friends, but not for a male significant other to have female friends? I love her and would no doubt do anything for her, as I see her as my soul mate, but this is seriously driving me crazy. Edited April 4, 2014 by marcjb
Chocolat Posted April 4, 2014 Posted April 4, 2014 She then finally told me the truth a week before we met, she was visiting her parents and slept with this high school friend, explaining that she was friends with him for a while and they wanted to see if there was anything between them, and she said she found out that their wasn't. Then she told me that she also slept with her friend John a week before we met too (the three of us have all hung out a few times) Orange flag. This is the time that I actually proposed to her. She said yes, but also expressed a bit of worry later in the night, which I talk to her about. She never wanted to take back the engagement or anything like that. What was her "bit of worry" about? We get in to an argument and she told me that she doesn't feel the same about me anymore. She said she loves me, but not "in love" with me. This happened last October. I was in shock. I came down to us taking a break for week (which I suggested). Anyway, she ended up wanting for us to be together, and it has been great since except for one thing... Red flag! How did she explain going from in love to not in love and back to in love again? Are you sure she is actually in love now or is it possible she has other reasons for wanting to marry? When we were talking things out after our "break" she told me that she did call this guy once when I was not able to go on an emergency trip to visit her brother due to me having to work, but she stressed there is nothing between them more than a friendship. He is 40 by the way. What sort of emergency? Why did anyone have to go with her? Why is it ok for a female significant other to have male friends, but not for a male significant other to have female friends? I love her and would no doubt do anything for her, as I see her as my soul mate, but this is seriously driving me crazy. Somehow, I suspect that she does not see you as her soulmate.
Hello_is_it_me Posted April 4, 2014 Posted April 4, 2014 Bigger than any of the guy friends stuff is what Chocolat pointed out - the "not feeling the same" thing. Though, a girl that has all guy friends and ends up hooking up with some of them (and for lame reasons it seems as she gave) is kind of shady. Though. It seems she was true to you and showed respect by cutting them off. So props to her for that. Though. I may be hardlined about this and some may disagree, but a girl having guy friends that were her friends before she dated you can be ok (as long as they never slept together). But girls making new guy friends after being in a relationship..? I don't agree with this and I'll never understand this.
Author marcjb Posted April 4, 2014 Author Posted April 4, 2014 (edited) What was her "bit of worry" about? She was worried about our future, that it would change our relationship. After I explained to her that nothing was going to change, it would actually be better later, we could do traveling and stuff like that ect… She actually wanted to get married earlier in our relationship though. I told her that I loved her to death, do want to marry her, but we should wait until until our relationship has matured. How did she explain going from in love to not in love and back to in love again? Are you sure she is actually in love now or is it possible she has other reasons for wanting to marry? She told me that it was multiple instances that eventually made her feel that way, and that she didn't really come to realize it until later. She said that she felt I was growing away from her, but she was spending a lot of time with school and work so we didn't have as much time to spend together. She said she felt like I wasn't as interested in what she was doing with her work stuff, and things like her music / teaching / kids related stuff. I was paying a decent amount of attention to anti-goverment things on the topic of the Boston Marathon Bombing and stuff like that. So I do see her points too. I told her that I wished she communicated her feelings better and let me know exactly how she was feeling instead of bottling it up. Anyway, I feel we have been past this, as I told her that I would stop focusing on that stuff and put more effort on my behalf in. I un-folllowed all the Facebook pages which post a lot of what I was paying attention to, and deleted anything I posted that was related to it. I understand how it could be a turn off for me to be focusing on negative things even if they are true. What sort of emergency? Why did anyone have to go with her? Her brother has been in prison (falsely accused, long story). She had to take a plane, and felt let down that I could not go with her and she had to go all by herself. I have gone with her a few time before, but I just started a new job and there was no notice at all when she told me she needed to go. Somehow, I suspect that she does not see you as her soulmate. She was told me before, and recently that she feels the same way. Edited April 4, 2014 by marcjb
Hello_is_it_me Posted April 4, 2014 Posted April 4, 2014 Wait.. So this teacher guy friend went on an emergency plane trip with her to visit her brother?
CantSStopMeNow Posted April 4, 2014 Posted April 4, 2014 I dont want to call her a slut. But it doesnt look decent the way she act. Not everyone can have real guy friend without have been sleeping with some of them. There are really not much of those people. In your gf case it doesn't sound like she can handle friendship with guys. Its also all to messy to trust her or believe she can be friends. II think she have emotions and stuff that she needs to deal with. And is not ready to marry or do anything with you. She needs to be left alone. Let her go work on her issues and feelings. And if she is worth it and the one she will find you. Rigth now i think you may be forcing something out of her, while she is not there yet. You are better off her taking care of it now then in your marriage! Because if its not clear now she may take all of this into your marriage and cheat and mess around with this dude etc. and you will end up divorcing. Maybe she told you she want to be with you because she felt sorry for your effort. You need to look at this situation with your mind. Not your feelings. See the real issues and face them. Dont ignore them. Beside 2 years may be to early to engage is that is all the time you have know her. 1
CantSStopMeNow Posted April 4, 2014 Posted April 4, 2014 If there are problems you dont crown it with propose or marriage. You face them and take care of them. And give yourselves enough time to see if things are really working or getting better. Marriage will not solve problems. If the relation is bad it will get worse in marriage. She was a mess , but yet you propose to her in-front of her parents? Dont fool yourself. You have one heart you need to take good care of it. And i think we as people almost always know clearly deep down when someone is not for us. Face that reality when you see it. It will safe you from alot of time wasting and hurt. Beside wasting time on the wrong person takes time away from the time that you could have spent with your real soulmate.
Author marcjb Posted April 4, 2014 Author Posted April 4, 2014 Wait.. So this teacher guy friend went on an emergency plane trip with her to visit her brother? No, she called him while she was there.
Spectre Posted April 4, 2014 Posted April 4, 2014 She was told me before, and recently that she feels the same way. Yes, but her actions tell quite a different story I'm afraid. I would not marry this person.
Author marcjb Posted April 4, 2014 Author Posted April 4, 2014 She was a mess , but yet you propose to her in-front of her parents? No, it was after, we were alone.
RonaldS Posted April 4, 2014 Posted April 4, 2014 As a guy who went back to school to get a teaching license, I can state with certainty that there are 2 relevant realities here: 1) it's pretty common to have the phone #s of people in your classes, especially with all of the group projects you end up doing 2) teachers are freaks
mtber75 Posted April 4, 2014 Posted April 4, 2014 Sorry, she seems to be an attention whore! She enjoys being the center of attention (only woman) amongst her male friends. You're being a chump if you believe that she is just friends with her male friends...Dude, she already admitted sleeping with a few of her friends yet you are still with her! So its probably true that she is not in love with you because she have other options (male friends) who been around longer than you have. I'm not saying that male and female can't just be friends. Being casual friends and hanging out with the opposite sex is trendy now a days LOL! But if the relationship is close as being best friends than one or the other will eventually develop romantic feels for the other. Especially if a guy is hoovering over a female disgusted as being a close friend. Unless he is gay, that's just a front for him so he can eventually one day sleep with her!
Author marcjb Posted April 4, 2014 Author Posted April 4, 2014 (edited) Well, she has recently told me out of the blue that I'm her best friend. Saying stuff like that to me and that she loves me "more" as in she loves me more than I love her kind of thing. It's also not a case of her saying that she is going out on the weekends to hang out with him or anything, I just don't know if they get a drink or anything like that after work / school. When she tells me about her day she leaves in stuff like him walking with her to the train though? The guys that I mentioned she slept with were before I met her, which is why I continued the relationship after she came clean with me. If it was while we were together, it would be a different story. I wouldn't of hesitated to end it then and there. That has always been the only reason I would end it, if I was cheated on. Edited April 4, 2014 by marcjb
Chocolat Posted April 4, 2014 Posted April 4, 2014 She was worried about our future, that it would change our relationship. After I explained to her that nothing was going to change, it would actually be better later, we could do traveling and stuff like that ect… She's 34 and you had to explain to her what being married would be like? She told me that it was multiple instances that eventually made her feel that way, and that she didn't really come to realize it until later. She said that she felt I was growing away from her, but she was spending a lot of time with school and work so we didn't have as much time to spend together. She said she felt like I wasn't as interested in what she was doing with her work stuff, and things like her music / teaching / kids related stuff. I was paying a decent amount of attention to anti-goverment things on the topic of the Boston Marathon Bombing and stuff like that. So I do see her points too. I told her that I wished she communicated her feelings better and let me know exactly how she was feeling instead of bottling it up. Anyway, I feel we have been past this, as I told her that I would stop focusing on that stuff and put more effort on my behalf in. I un-folllowed all the Facebook pages which post a lot of what I was paying attention to, and deleted anything I posted that was related to it. I understand how it could be a turn off for me to be focusing on negative things even if they are true. So she was in love with you until you developed interests she didn't share? I still see this as a huge red flag. It's one thing to tell your partner that you are feeling neglected because he has jumped into a new hobby that you don't share and quite something else to withdraw emotion as a way to manipulate your partner into abandoning an interest. Which is exactly what she and you did. Her brother has been in prison (falsely accused, long story). She had to take a plane, and felt let down that I could not go with her and she had to go all by herself. I have gone with her a few time before, but I just started a new job and there was no notice at all when she told me she needed to go. So there was no emergency, then, just an ongoing saga? And because you could not go she "punished" you by calling her teaching associate rather than you when she needed support? She was told me before, and recently that she feels the same way. Well, if you are confident about this, why did you make this thread?
Author marcjb Posted April 4, 2014 Author Posted April 4, 2014 Well, if you are confident about this, why did you make this thread? Mainly because I'm not sure if I'm overreacting about this guy friend / coworker. 1
Phantom888 Posted April 5, 2014 Posted April 5, 2014 You have so much reservations about her. So why did you ask her to marry you??? She is not gonna change. She is hiding stuff from you because you are jealous. You have every right to be jealous because of her past behaviors. This is not okay. You have to break the engagement until this is all resolved. I really don't see this working out. 1
Author marcjb Posted April 5, 2014 Author Posted April 5, 2014 (edited) I asked her to marry me because we talked about it initially, but I thought it was too soon. She wanted to get married earlier. I didn't have these thoughts and questioning things until she dropped the bomb on me about how she felt. I thought everything was great up until then. The guy friend didn't really bother me much until that happened and my mind started putting 2 and 2 together, even though she expressed to me that she doesn't feel that way about him, and she's not attracted to him. Things are great with us now, but this guy friend is still in the back of my mind all the time now. Edited April 5, 2014 by marcjb
georgecostanza Posted April 5, 2014 Posted April 5, 2014 I think it's important that people can have friends of the opposite sex. If you work - or study - day in and day out with members of the opposite sex then it's natural to be friends, and it's pretty normal for her to have numbers for people from her class. I also know from experience that it's possible to sleep with a friend of the opposite sex without there being any real feeling there. Maybe you're both single, drunk, whatever. I've done it with a couple of close female friends. I've gone right back to being friends with them afterwards, often encouraging them in their new relationships when they look for advice, pretty secure in the knowledge that the sex was a one time thing and that I don't feel like a threat to the other guy because both me and the girl are pretty certain that it will never happen again. Back to just friends. Your girlfriend was single when she slept with those guys. She didn't do you any wrong. You've made her cut those relationships out of her life completely though, as a result of jealousy / insecurity at the end of the day. It should mean a lot to you that she did that. Does she have many female friends? A mix? A lot of the girls I know who have mainly male friends have slept with a few of them, but are good at leaving it behind them and resuming the friendship afterwards. I'd definitely be more concerned about her worries about the relationship. You need to look at those more closely and make sure you're both pushing in the same direction before marriage. Also your own insecurities, doubts and jealousy.
Author marcjb Posted April 5, 2014 Author Posted April 5, 2014 She has never really had female friends while we were dating, no. All of the female acquaintances have mainly been girls who she knows through some of the guys. She has made some progress with one of the girls who she teaches with though, but it's not like she asked if we could go on a double date with her and her boyfriend... like how we went to her male friend's cookout. I think this would be a lot easier if the guy wasn't single too.
georgecostanza Posted April 5, 2014 Posted April 5, 2014 I don't get what the problem is with the cookout if you went as well?
Author marcjb Posted April 5, 2014 Author Posted April 5, 2014 (edited) I don't get what the problem is with the cookout if you went as well? Well, like I said, it's not really the cookout by itself. I sucked it up at the time and made the best of it. Just he fact that when she started going back to school things went from there being no guys, to there being a few nerdy ones, to there being one she's friends with, to then us going to the cookout, to her texting with him I don't really know what they talk about, if there is any flirting or what not. Then, she just happens to be interning at the same school now. Edited April 5, 2014 by marcjb
ja123 Posted April 5, 2014 Posted April 5, 2014 Real romantic liaisons with these guy "friends" or not, what is troublesome is that it seems she covertly uses these relationships as leverage to manipulate you. Think about it!!! I am always quite circumspect of those who do not have any platonic friendships with their own sex. 1
RonaldS Posted April 5, 2014 Posted April 5, 2014 Guy, the real issue here, as was already pointed out, is that she flaked on you before with the feelings thing. The 'I don't know if I love you....oh wait, yeah I do....no, now I kinda don't anymore....but yeah, I love you now' is indicative of conflicting feelings. If I were a betting man, I would bet she is at least entertaining thoughts of being with other guys. She probably craves make attention. That in and of itself is not a huge deal. I'm like that with women. I have guy friends, but they're far outnumbered by girl friends. And my closest friends have always been girls. And on top of that, I always tended to get a lot of attention from women, so I tended to seek it out. When I was married, it was a huge problem for my wife, so much so that her insecurities made her unbearable to be around, and that ended up being one of the things that brought the marriage down. But I never slept with any of them, not did I really even want to. Just got along better with them. However, if she's expressing doubts about feelings, that doesn't portend well for a future with her.
Author marcjb Posted April 5, 2014 Author Posted April 5, 2014 Guy, the real issue here, as was already pointed out, is that she flaked on you before with the feelings thing. The 'I don't know if I love you....oh wait, yeah I do....no, now I kinda don't anymore....but yeah, I love you now' is indicative of conflicting feelings. If I were a betting man, I would bet she is at least entertaining thoughts of being with other guys. She probably craves make attention. That in and of itself is not a huge deal. I'm like that with women. I have guy friends, but they're far outnumbered by girl friends. And my closest friends have always been girls. And on top of that, I always tended to get a lot of attention from women, so I tended to seek it out. When I was married, it was a huge problem for my wife, so much so that her insecurities made her unbearable to be around, and that ended up being one of the things that brought the marriage down. But I never slept with any of them, not did I really even want to. Just got along better with them. However, if she's expressing doubts about feelings, that doesn't portend well for a future with her. She was at the time that I mentioned, but not anymore.
OhThatGirl Posted April 5, 2014 Posted April 5, 2014 I'm with ja123.. Very generally speaking, I think there are some underlying issues with girls that can't develop friendships with other girls. It's important in maturity and development as a person to be able to get along with friends of the same sex. I used to have mostly male friends and had to grow quite a bit as a person to realize they weren't the intimate friendships I now have with women, and there was almost never a case of true friendship with those guys but really some sort of "I've attracted you but placed you in the friendzone, I plan to keep you there, this benefits me in some bizarre way" kinda deal. It sounds like there is a lot of insecurity in this relationship. Not just on your part, but also you've said she's gotten upset over much less than what she's doing to you. In mature, healthy relationships partners don't allow friendships with the opposite sex to create issues. Primarily because it's a sign of respect and the ability to naturally create/want to create boundaries that protect your romantic relationship. This is an early 20s dating thing, not a 30s and getting married thing. Between the guy friends and the wavering commitment on her end and insecurity on both ends it really seems like marriage is probably a poor idea for you two. I hate to say this but it sounds like she has growing up to do. Even at 34.
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