Children and how the **** up your marriage.

[waterwoman]

Atreides - I can't answer for xxoo, but for me it isn't a question of deliberately making conditions or ranking priorities, it's simply that I cannot really relax or be entirely happy if I feel my children have been shortchanged. Not so much now as two of them are teenagers, but in the past.

[janedoe67]

One of the fundamental differences between stbx and me that set up a lot of our problems was this:

 

my model - parents who loved us and took great care of our needs BUT also made the marriage a priority throughout ALL of our lives

 

his model - parents who had a marriage, then everything shifted to the kids and the marriage went to the side with the assumption that the marriage would just pick up where it left off when the kids got older

 

My parents still have a very intimate marriage like they always did. His parents became "practical partners" and seemed lost once the nest was empty.

 

I do not think his parents' model made them noble parents; I think it made them lazy spouses.

[Spark1111]

You choose to have children. They have needs which must be met by their parents if they are to grow up to be securely attached, confident adults.

 

HOPEFULLY, both parents approach this job with the same dedication and communicate about the sharing of responsibilities, standards and expectations of each other.

 

If one or both of the partners begin to feel neglected, less than, in this most important job, they will COMMUNICATE to the partner WHAT THEY NEED.

 

Unfortunately, this is rarely the case. Cheaters can be such poor communicators.

 

I did most of the parenting, house, kids, so he could beat the bushes to provide. he let me.

 

I asked for more of his involvement and he grew defensive, as if I was not appreciative of his hard-earned paycheck.

 

I/we backed off of our demands of him. He embraced that. we walked on eggshells trying to keep him involved and HAPPY with us. He allowed it.

 

HE distanced himself to the point of no return. He pushed us away to the point that crashing into his AP, a crazy, damsel in distress, gave some sort of superficial importance in his life.

 

How in the world can I be responsible for feelings of inadequacy and loneliness, that were NEVER communicated to me?

 

what am I? A mind reader?

[atreides]

Atreides - I can't answer for xxoo, but for me it isn't a question of deliberately making conditions or ranking priorities, it's simply that I cannot really relax or be entirely happy if I feel my children have been shortchanged. Not so much now as two of them are teenagers, but in the past.

 

None of us can (ignore our kids needs), if our children are up at night for example it's not like we ignore them. I am just arguing the principle of it all. In your case your H does nothing, did you give him hell for it?

 

Now you hit it on the nail, when my kids were babies, the needs are significantly different; for example, breast feeding with my last 2 boys vs my first which was formula and the stupid steam machine that broke after 1 month. Clearly during that time responsibilities are different and change as they get older. I just find all too often AND ONLY BECAUSE this thread leans BIAS against men that the stories I know of, the women cheated when the kids were very young shocked me. Even here on LS it is incredible to me some of the stories... so back to the men... I admit, it does not compute that your H's can just sit there and watch TV. I WANT to be a part of my kids lives and not remembered for watching the tube... geeesh.

 

In the end, cheating does not compute.... it's like the random lot... those that will and will not and those that will be good fathers/Husbands and not. The unknowns of life present us with the risk and we just have to survive it.... sigh.

[Furious]

There are many men who are fully engaged and are a great parent....and there are many women who are not engaged and not a great parent.

 

In keeping with the opening post, I understand that it's not uncommon for the parent whom, is in one way or another, responsible or accepting of the sacrifices of caring for the children, are completely traumatized to discover they'd been betrayed.

 

Raising children while at the same time maintaining a healthy marriage requires "Both" partners to give it their all. Mature love can handle the delicate art of family life and intimacy.

 

When you see that old couple holding hands who've been married over 50 years, they would be the ones to tell you it's not always been sunshine and roses. These couples have seen it all, they rode the hard times and appreciated the good times.

 

For some folks mature love and balancing both a marriage and child rearing understand the ups and downs and the joyful payoff in the long run.

 

Sadly, all too often, immediate need and short term gratification can ruin in a heartbeat what took years to build.

 

50% of marriages end in divorce, and sadly 75% of second marriages end in divorce. It's obvious that there's a disconnect on how the general population views the meaning of love, marriage and family.

 

Often, not always, but the least engaged and more self involed partner is the one who cheats. It's not the marriage or kids that was the problem but most likely the unrealistic expectations and ego of the one who strayed who is the problem.

 

****desclaimer***** there is such a thing as divorce....but many WS's would rather cheat than pursue divorce. The noble thing is to divorce and maybe cheating is the lazy thing to do.....

Edited March 17, 2014 by Furious

[cocahouts]

 

****desclaimer***** there is such a thing as divorce....but many WS's would rather cheat than pursue divorce. The noble thing is to divorce and maybe cheating is the lazy thing to do.....

 

I wonder if divorce without the cheating would be easier? I don't think there would ever be a way to judge and if you're leaving a marriage you're losing something you thought you had anyway.

[luvmyl00ny2ns]

But my question is, how else should I have behaved in those circumstances? We both choose to have children. We were both supposed to love and support them. I imagined that we would both embrace parenthood with enthusiasm, give it all we had, and when H didn’t seem to, should i have pulled back as well? So he didn’t feel left out? Isn’t looking after your children as sign of love for your partner too – they are a symbol of our love and commitments to each other. I cared for them because I wanted OUR children to be well .

 

I hadn't wanted children, he had. BC failed and I decided to go through with it because he was so excited. When the little mite was born I felt guilty that he hadn't been planned, and wanted to make sure he knew he was wanted. After all, through fate or destiny, we had brought him into the world without his consent.

 

My H was a brilliant dad to his DD from his previous M, but seemed intimidated by our son. Over time he became resentful of my attention to our son, as I became resentful of his lack of attention to him. I was young, exhausted, and had only so much to go around. My H got neglected. He found sympathy in the arms of a coworker and I resented only that it was time he was not spending with his son.

 

I D him soon after because I thought it easier to be a single parent of one infant than a single parent of an infant and an adult. For years I was a parent. As he grew older I focused on my career more and only resumed a romantic life much later. When he was grown I reM. H and I have no kids and are free to focus on each other and our M. 10 years on we love each other more than ever.

 

With hindsight I recognise how destructive kids are to a M. You have to choose whether you will be a parent or a spouse and most choose to be a parent, and expect their spouse to be happy with that choice. It is a high risk strategy that might sometimes pay off but the M can never be as good as a M with no kids. If your spouse resents your choice they may seek another that puts them first, that they can put first likewise, without the constant drain of kids. However much you love them, kids are a drain especially in the early years. They always need something. A baby that cries all night does take a toll.

 

I do not blame my H for his A. Had I not been so ravaged by guilt about not having wanted a child I may have done the same. I had to make a choice at the time who to prioritise and it wasn't my H. At that moment I set his A in motion. I take full responsibility for that and accept that it was my choice that forced his hand.

[luvmyl00ny2ns]

I've been lucky enough to have a husband who is a very involved father, as well as having a father who was very involved with us as kids, from babies forward. What I've learned from these men is that men should put their children first. The "marriage first" attitude sets up a competition for attention between the children and the husband, and it's neither healthy nor attractive.

 

If the husband, the father, puts the children first, he meets the mother's need to see her children cared for. He endears herself to her. And, he frees up his wife to put HIM first.

 

If you want your wife to put you first, you put the kids first. SOMEONE has to put the kids first, and if isn't you, then it will be her. As a wife, I really don't mind that he put the kids first. I love it! It's incredibly attractive paternal behavior in my eyes! Makes me want to jump him!

 

I do not agree with this. Yes if my H had put our son first I would not have had to. But putting our son first would not have met my needs, it would have met our son's needs. My needs would still have gone unmet, and I would have become as resentful of being the one left out of the holy huddle as my H was. If he had been putting the kids first it would have been me that had the A. Names may change but the dynamic remains the same.

[janedoe67]

You choose to have children. They have needs which must be met by their parents if they are to grow up to be securely attached, confident adults.

 

HOPEFULLY, both parents approach this job with the same dedication and communicate about the sharing of responsibilities, standards and expectations of each other.

 

If one or both of the partners begin to feel neglected, less than, in this most important job, they will COMMUNICATE to the partner WHAT THEY NEED.

 

Unfortunately, this is rarely the case. Cheaters can be such poor communicators.

 

I did most of the parenting, house, kids, so he could beat the bushes to provide. he let me.

 

I asked for more of his involvement and he grew defensive, as if I was not appreciative of his hard-earned paycheck.

 

I/we backed off of our demands of him. He embraced that. we walked on eggshells trying to keep him involved and HAPPY with us. He allowed it.

 

HE distanced himself to the point of no return. He pushed us away to the point that crashing into his AP, a crazy, damsel in distress, gave some sort of superficial importance in his life.

 

How in the world can I be responsible for feelings of inadequacy and loneliness, that were NEVER communicated to me?

 

what am I? A mind reader?

 

Well, you're not my h and you didn't live in MY marriage, so quite frankly you don't know WHAT kind of communicator I was. But clearly there are plenty of women with whom my h would have been more compatible in a platonic partnership and child-centered household.

[xxoo]

I do not agree with this. Yes if my H had put our son first I would not have had to. But putting our son first would not have met my needs, it would have met our son's needs. My needs would still have gone unmet, and I would have become as resentful of being the one left out of the holy huddle as my H was. If he had been putting the kids first it would have been me that had the A. Names may change but the dynamic remains the same.

 

For me, my baby's needs were the most pressing needs for the first year. After that things changed. But for that first year, I often felt I was sacrificing my own needs for this baby, and what I really needed was help meeting the baby's needs.

 

Even now, with older kids, when my H steps up and takes a kid to the dentist, or does a pick up from school, it frees me up to meet my own needs. And then I have something to give to him. I don't even know what he could do for me that would make me feel relaxed and centered IF I didn't get time for myself first. Maybe this is because I am an introvert and need that time more than I need another person "meeting my needs"?

 

My H putting the kids first, to me, is giving me a break. Giving me "me time". Which allows me to feel like a whole person, a whole woman, rather than "mom" first and foremost. And then that woman interacts with her man in a very different way.

 

So I guess for me, my H putting the kids first is meeting my needs--my need for a break! And when I'm feeling like it's all on me, I feel overwhelmed and have little left for my H.

[Spark1111]

Well, you're not my h and you didn't live in MY marriage, so quite frankly you don't know WHAT kind of communicator I was. But clearly there are plenty of women with whom my h would have been more compatible in a platonic partnership and child-centered household.

 

And you weren't in my marriage.

 

I begged for more romance, weekends away to reconnect emotionally and sexually, and there was always something bigger he needed to buy to impress those disapproving parents.

 

My romantic needs were not a financial priority for him.

 

that being said, we had sex at least twice a week during his affair, down from three times and better.

 

For some people, what they have IS NEVER enough.....until a suitcase is packed and they are walking out the door.

[ladydesigner]

Often, not always, but the least engaged and more self involed partner is the one who cheats. It's not the marriage or kids that was the problem but most likely the unrealistic expectations and ego of the one who strayed who is the problem.

 

It was this way in our M pre-A. I was the child rearer and major earner. I look back now and I must have been crazy to have done what I did. No more! Our M has to have equal balance now post A or it won't work out. I will no longer tolerate a M of one being more engaged than the other.

[janedoe67]

And you weren't in my marriage.

 

I begged for more romance, weekends away to reconnect emotionally and sexually, and there was always something bigger he needed to buy to impress those disapproving parents.

 

My romantic needs were not a financial priority for him.

 

that being said, we had sex at least twice a week during his affair, down from three times and better.

 

For some people, what they have IS NEVER enough.....until a suitcase is packed and they are walking out the door.

 

It sounds like each of our marriages had challenges, and despite biases, neither of us an expert on the other's life.

[Got it]

I hadn't wanted children, he had. BC failed and I decided to go through with it because he was so excited. When the little mite was born I felt guilty that he hadn't been planned, and wanted to make sure he knew he was wanted. After all, through fate or destiny, we had brought him into the world without his consent.

 

My H was a brilliant dad to his DD from his previous M, but seemed intimidated by our son. Over time he became resentful of my attention to our son, as I became resentful of his lack of attention to him. I was young, exhausted, and had only so much to go around. My H got neglected. He found sympathy in the arms of a coworker and I resented only that it was time he was not spending with his son.

 

I D him soon after because I thought it easier to be a single parent of one infant than a single parent of an infant and an adult. For years I was a parent. As he grew older I focused on my career more and only resumed a romantic life much later. When he was grown I reM. H and I have no kids and are free to focus on each other and our M. 10 years on we love each other more than ever.

 

With hindsight I recognise how destructive kids are to a M. You have to choose whether you will be a parent or a spouse and most choose to be a parent, and expect their spouse to be happy with that choice. It is a high risk strategy that might sometimes pay off but the M can never be as good as a M with no kids. If your spouse resents your choice they may seek another that puts them first, that they can put first likewise, without the constant drain of kids. However much you love them, kids are a drain especially in the early years. They always need something. A baby that cries all night does take a toll.

 

I do not blame my H for his A. Had I not been so ravaged by guilt about not having wanted a child I may have done the same. I had to make a choice at the time who to prioritise and it wasn't my H. At that moment I set his A in motion. I take full responsibility for that and accept that it was my choice that forced his hand.

 

I don't agree. I think there are far more factors involved that play into this. Also there is a higher rate of divorce in childless marriages though they do not factor in happy/healthy so add that caveat.

 

My first marriage we didn't have kids and didn't plan to. But we started growing into our separate lives and there was little anchor to pull us back. At the end of the day children would not have been the deciding factor but the two of us, compatibility and sheer desire to keep moving things forward and coming together.

 

My parents had a poor marriage where kids were the focal point. I learned from them how important the adult partnership is as it is the foundation, and like a house, without a solid foundation the whole thing is shot. They did little together and almost no dates night. I remember one anniversary where they went away together. One in a two decade marriage. Now they weren't surprised with kids, my twin and I are miracles of medicine. They just weren't equipped to handle the two, a spouse and kids, and stay united.

 

I think that there are stages to raising kids and some people do better during different stages. My mother was far better with us when we were young and my father struggled. He did not change the way he talked, thought, or expectations even when we were young (I remember having to spell, and give the meaning of the word, plethora sitting in the car getting home for sport's practice before I could go inside. I was maybe 10?) I read his college books, along side of him, when I was 12, learning Edgar Allen Poe and the likes. Those were the best times with him as when we were acting like kids he had a harsh temper, a booming voice, and a short fuse. Many a sports practice had us in tears because he became frustrated with not being able to do x, y, or z properly.

 

Because of it, it set up a dynamic with my mother to rush to our defense and then it became a "us vs. him". Regardless of who was right or wrong there should have been no sides being taken. Just like we would hear "wait till your father comes home" and put him in the monster role (though one he played quite well.

 

But once we became teens/young adults my mother started to struggle with the change in the relationship. We no longer "needed" her in the same manner and needed to have more of an adult relationship. She has never adapted well to this and all of our relationships with her are more strained than when we were young. Conversely once we were able to had a more mature cognitive thinking ability and framework our relationship with our father became better. We were able converse and think at the level he was more comfortable with.

 

So I think with many people there are stages as well.

[waterwoman]

That's interesting gotit. H was great when they were very small. He started to struggle when they got older and could answer back . Funnily enough that was the same as his father - loved babies, didn't much like older kids. I loved when they were tiny and yes I miss it a little, but I like them best now when they have their own opinions and attitudes and can have interesting conversation with me. H finds them a bit challenging but it slowly mellowing.