oldshirt Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 I still think you were not fully in love with the OM, but like some people here said you thought you did because of an affair fog. She definately is still in a thick fog bank but I don't doubt the sincerity of the feelings for the OM. her feelings may have been inappropriate and misplaced but they were intense and sincere. Her pain over the rejection is real. Her disillusionment over how easily he moved on is real. Her heartbreak over the death of her dreams of them being together is real. This is serious unrequited love to her and it is every bit as real as it would be if she were a single gal with the rug pulled out from under her. Others may view all of this as distasteful and wrong but to her it's real.
oldshirt Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 Old shirt - what is an example of why people have been so harsh to me? And in the real world, I am working on my marriage and only post on here to let out my innermost thoughts and feelings about what happened. Just because I have mainly discussed fOM on here that does not mean that I do not feel major guilt and remorse for what I did to my H. Just that I deal with that matter very differently, perhaps due to the fact my H has not discussed my A, has not asked for details, does not bring it up, and is a very "bury your head in the sand" kind of person. He has not (to me) cried or got angry or been effected by my A (although I'm sure it must have affected him) so am not having to come on here and discuss my feelings of guilt and shame over what I did to him. He is not asking me to constantly justify myself to him and beat myself up over this so is not the main issue that I'm holding inside and asking for advice on. You asked why you think will be different with her and I answered, don't know what about my response warranted your reply?? And is unfair to say I'd be "happy as a hog in slop" if I'd have left my husband. I have new with him almost half my whole life and I do not undervalue this at all. As fOM never asked me to leave I was never faced with the actual reality of leaving, but is unfair to make assumptions that I would have been wildly happy with no doubts or sadness or guilt. Yes, perhaps this whole thing has been about rejection and hurt over how things ended rather than advice on infidelity. The threads I've started I put in the "coping" section, but were all moved to "infidelity" , probably partly due to the abuse and judgement I received there. I'm still just a person that is hurting and looking for support. From what I've seen of your posts here, the majority have been over your hurt and disgust of the OM dumping you, but I'll just concede and plead no-contest just to keep moving forward. The way I see this is you are still way hung up on the other man and are heartbroken over the breakup with him. And If that is really how your husband is responding to all of this, I don't think this paints a very good picture for the reconciliation of your marriage at this point. I know you have been in IC. Has he been in any IC also and are the both of you in joint MC?
Author wistfulgirl Posted February 11, 2014 Author Posted February 11, 2014 Oldshirt - thanks for acknowedging that. The whole situation is a massive head f*ck as it makes me question everything about my life, my marriage, myself and my worth. I got with my H when we were 17. I was always faithful. 10 years later, perhaps as was the next logical step and was expected of us, we got married, had a ceremony and signed a legal peice of paper. Does this mean that any feelings I have for OM must not be real and only a "fog"? Does that mean that now, as I partook in a ceremony and signed a legal form that my H is "the right one" for me for life? Or was at that time but that people and their needs / wants change over time? Does the fact that fOM didn't ask me to leave my H and ended our A mean that he was only ever "playing" me? Does the fact that I broke the vows I made, that I meant when I said them (and do still love my H) that I'm a "disgusting person?" Or that my pain is unjustified and "fantasy" as we hadnt had a ceremony or signed a legal document? I'm only musing here - not saying that I'm not wrong or that the above isn't all completely accurate. And not devaluing marriage, I suppose marriage and partnership only hold the meaning you give to them. Feel sad that me and my H have come to this after so many good years together. Sad that I don't feel that same intimacy, passion, romance and connection to him as did with fOM. (NOT talking about sex!). And sad that I feel I'm not entitled to grieve or air my inner thoughts on here as I've been bad and "immoral" x
oldshirt Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 Oldshirt - thanks for acknowedging that. The whole situation is a massive head f*ck as it makes me question everything about my life, my marriage, myself and my worth. I got with my H when we were 17. I was always faithful. 10 years later, perhaps as was the next logical step and was expected of us, we got married, had a ceremony and signed a legal peice of paper. Does this mean that any feelings I have for OM must not be real and only a "fog"? Does that mean that now, as I partook in a ceremony and signed a legal form that my H is "the right one" for me for life? Or was at that time but that people and their needs / wants change over time? Does the fact that fOM didn't ask me to leave my H and ended our A mean that he was only ever "playing" me? Does the fact that I broke the vows I made, that I meant when I said them (and do still love my H) that I'm a "disgusting person?" Or that my pain is unjustified and "fantasy" as we hadnt had a ceremony or signed a legal document? I'm only musing here - not saying that I'm not wrong or that the above isn't all completely accurate. And not devaluing marriage, I suppose marriage and partnership only hold the meaning you give to them. Feel sad that me and my H have come to this after so many good years together. Sad that I don't feel that same intimacy, passion, romance and connection to him as did with fOM. (NOT talking about sex!). And sad that I feel I'm not entitled to grieve or air my inner thoughts on here as I've been bad and "immoral" x - We are all brought up that we fall in love with "the one" and that that person will fulfill us and that if our love is true we won't have feelings for others. That is a complete myth and fallacy of course. We DO develop feelings for others at various points in our lives. What happens is we may get a rush of feelings for someone else and our subconscious tries to justify that by making us question our feelings for our spouse. If the feeling for the other grows, our subconscious tries to justify that by rewriting history and telling us that we were never truly in love with our spouse to begin with and that they were never actually "the one" and that the other is actually " the one." -everyone that has an affair goes through that to one degree or another. For some reason that force is VERY powerful in you. -your love, feelings and commitment to your husband at the time were real. - your feelings for OM are real too. - the fact you developed feelings for OM doesn't have to mean that you have fallen out of love with your H. ....but you may have. - You aren't necessarily a bad person because of this. - I absolutely believe the OM did play you to one degree or another. I also assume he probably had some warm feelings to one degree or another as well. We'll just never know for sure how much was "game" and how much was sincere. Let's just say there were elements of both and leave it at that. - I do believe that your grief is very real and is playing a HUGE part in all of this. I also believe it is holding you back from moving forward with your life. I think you should get some professional grief counseling to help peel back the layers and sort through all of this. Single folks can go through significant grief losing a BF. and married folks can go through crippling grief losing a spouse. ...you may be losing BOTH! -whether you ultimately decide to divorce and move on or try to reconcile the M, you will have to get through your grief first and put that behind you and be back up on both feet firing on all cylinders again. 1
No Limit Posted February 12, 2014 Posted February 12, 2014 I must admit, even though your "mutual friend" has ruined any further contact to your OM, it's very decent of her to not tell your husband. Most would have done it without a second thought.
peruano99 Posted February 12, 2014 Posted February 12, 2014 What has the OM done for you that your husband didn't? Your husband sounds like he has no reaction and that isn't too good. Has he been faithful to you all these years? If he decided to leave or take a break from you, would you let him?
peruano99 Posted February 12, 2014 Posted February 12, 2014 Also Wistful girl are you two American? Just wondering.
tiredofitall2 Posted February 12, 2014 Posted February 12, 2014 Oldshirt - thanks for acknowedging that. The whole situation is a massive head f*ck as it makes me question everything about my life, my marriage, myself and my worth. I got with my H when we were 17. I was always faithful. 10 years later, perhaps as was the next logical step and was expected of us, we got married, had a ceremony and signed a legal peice of paper. Does this mean that any feelings I have for OM must not be real and only a "fog"? Does that mean that now, as I partook in a ceremony and signed a legal form that my H is "the right one" for me for life? Or was at that time but that people and their needs / wants change over time? Does the fact that fOM didn't ask me to leave my H and ended our A mean that he was only ever "playing" me? Does the fact that I broke the vows I made, that I meant when I said them (and do still love my H) that I'm a "disgusting person?" Or that my pain is unjustified and "fantasy" as we hadnt had a ceremony or signed a legal document? I'm only musing here - not saying that I'm not wrong or that the above isn't all completely accurate. And not devaluing marriage, I suppose marriage and partnership only hold the meaning you give to them. Feel sad that me and my H have come to this after so many good years together. Sad that I don't feel that same intimacy, passion, romance and connection to him as did with fOM. (NOT talking about sex!). And sad that I feel I'm not entitled to grieve or air my inner thoughts on here as I've been bad and "immoral" x I think your H deserves a chance to find a woman that will respect and love him. I also think you should tell hi exactly that. Anything else would be selfish. I understand you might fear being alone for a while or maybe not, but right now you need to sort things out. However your H is coping should not be your focus. He is the victim of your A and you shouldn't judge whatever reaction he is having. Not everyone reacts the same way to trauma, yes trauma. I too have cheated and know that you are selfish, just like I was. Therefore recognize it and give him a chance to find happiness. If he moves on and you come to your senses like I did you will then be in a better emotional position to work on the rest of your life. About feelings, relationships and whether it's right wrong, moral, immoral or if it makes you a bad person, well what do you think? You did, break your commitment to your H, you probably hurt him more than any other person ever has, even if he is not showing it right now. We all make bad choices and many, many times we realize we what we've done when it's too late. Sometimes we neglect what we have, well cause it is there available to us. I think your pain is coming from being rejected and it is not a good foundation for a real R. I think if you had ended up with OM your R would have been doomed. But it is just my opinion. You know that guilt, routine and life in general ruin even the best fantasies and yes, that's what your A was. Please don't feel judged, it's not the intention here. I just feel for your H, especially since you said he has always been faithful to you. He must feel, less of a man, less attractive and as second choice. He deserves a some redemption. Please take your focus away from you and how bad you feel about OM not worshiping you and wanting to be with you forever and think about how you killed your H soul. I did it with my W and I regret it every day. So trust me I know. 1
Author wistfulgirl Posted February 12, 2014 Author Posted February 12, 2014 Old shirt - I was already going through a bad patch in my M before met OM. I wouldn't not say I re write history, but have read a lot on A's so maybe I did to a certain degree. I just read others on here's posts that say they're still "in love" after 20 odd yrs of marriage and people that are sure that their H/W is "the one" and I want that too. I've been petrified at the thought of getting pregnant for years as feel like it will essentially "trap me" and I'll have made my choice at 17 and have to live the rest of my life with it. Perhaps I'm the one that's scared of commitment, not fOM. I do agree that this has disproportionally affected me, and considering whether I have some kind of "love addiction" as lots of the symptoms of this have resonated with me. Also, yes I'm going through crippling grief as I would have done if I was single, but would question whether its worse in my situation as if I was single I could think "plenty more fish in the sea", I could find a rebound, go on lots of dates to make myself feel wanted, many ppl think, "you don't get over someone till you get under someone else" etc, and I could openly grieve. In my case I can't do any of these things, just return my focus to my M which had already become distant and unfulfilling (before I'd met OM). No limit - I wouldn't say it was decent of her not to tell my H, firstly as she's the one that had actively set me up with f OM, but also as she has MANY things she wouldn't not want to get back to her (now ex) partner, such as sleeping with half his friends, getting pregnant by someone else, amongst other things. Also, she's have effectively dropped her friend (fOM) in it too.. Pereuno99 - my and my H are very different people, and our differences have become more and more apparent over the years. As I've said before, he has a very solid self esteem, whereas mines on the floor, and he deals with things very differently to me. He was unfaithful to me early on in our R (after about 18mths/2yrs) at a time I was going through a very bad bout of bipolar depression. This really traumatised me at the time, and looking back perhaps made me block off a part of my heart to him. Over the past few years I've tried to take a break from him on 3 seperate occasions and he has not let me. But yes, if he wanted a break from the M I would of course let him. And no, we're British! Tiredofitall2 - thanks for your post. As I've said before I've tried to seperate/have a break before and he is the one that does not let me. I do love and respect him but don't feel "in love" or connected as did with fOM - hard to properly evaluate weather it's normal to not feel that way after so long or whether it means we shouldn't be together anymore. In those musings, I was questioning M in general as the whole concept is a social one that is man made, to have a ceremony and commit to one person forever then make it into a legal partnership. Obviously, any time you break a promise that is fundamentally wrong but society puts so much weight on M as an institution when it's been created by man in the first place. It's almost like asking a teen who calls their best friend "BFF" - forever, to then have a ceremony and sign a legal document then as they grow and feelings change demonise then for breaking that promise to always feel the same way when no one can guarantee they will feel the same after years and years. Again, know I'm saying things that are derogatory towards marriage, only musing but suppose I am a romantic and want to be happy and "sure" and faithful to one man my whole life, but want it to feel "right". And I said I had always been faithful for 13.5yrs (until fOM), my H HAD cheated on me, but much much earlier in our relationship. Thanks so much for everyone's responses, know this thread is looooooong! But really really appreciated xxx
tiredofitall2 Posted February 12, 2014 Posted February 12, 2014 I was questioning M in general as the whole concept is a social one that is man made, to have a ceremony and commit to one person forever then make it into a legal partnership. Obviously, any time you break a promise that is fundamentally wrong but society puts so much weight on M as an institution when it's been created by man in the first place. It's almost like asking a teen who calls their best friend "BFF" - forever, to then have a ceremony and sign a legal document then as they grow and feelings change demonise then for breaking that promise to always feel the same way when no one can guarantee they will feel the same after years and years. Again, know I'm saying things that are derogatory towards marriage, only musing but suppose I am a romantic and want to be happy and "sure" and faithful to one man my whole life, but want it to feel "right". And I said I had always been faithful for 13.5yrs (until fOM), my H HAD cheated on me, but much much earlier in our relationship. You see, this is your opinion and not mine and perhaps may others think very differently than you, perhaps even your husband. If this is the case it might be better for you not to be married at all. I believe marriage is more than what you so convinced described it to be especially after my own experience. 1
Author wistfulgirl Posted February 12, 2014 Author Posted February 12, 2014 I'm not saying it is my opinion, just thoughts and musings. My A has really messed me up and made me question everything. I don't want to be a cynic, and I am very romantic and suppose I have an idealised vision of what love is/should be. Just hope things turn out better for everyone involved, like everyone else I just want to be happy xx
peruano99 Posted February 12, 2014 Posted February 12, 2014 This is just a thought, maybe your husband isn't reacting that much to your affair because he doesn't have the same feelings as he did to you before. Also how many months was your affair?
No Limit Posted February 12, 2014 Posted February 12, 2014 she's the one that had actively set me up with f OM Not meant offensively, but as long as she didn't chain you to his bed or brainwash you that's no argument. All of us - except for women in few countries - have a choice what we are going to do. Same counts for your other post about him not letting you take a break from your R; it was never his decision, it's yours. If you're not going to stand up for yourself, no one will, so heads up!
Author wistfulgirl Posted February 12, 2014 Author Posted February 12, 2014 Peruano99 - I'm not completely sure why he reacted like he did. Perhaps it's due to his very positive self esteem, perhaps because he knows he's the only man to have ever really loved me so secure in himself that I won't actually leave. Also perhaps because he blamed my bipolar and that knew I was going through a bad time so thinks it was symptomatic of that so hasn't personalised my actions. Who knows. The PA only lasted about 2mths 1st time (but saw each other v regularly) then restarted for few weeks months later. But EA had continued the whole time up until last Sept when I cut contact when he got a GF. So over a year all in all. No Limit - I didn't say that to blame her for my actions, only that it would be very hypocritical of her to tell my H when she had effectively "set us up". But yeah, do realise I should stand up for myself more (although I kinda do on here!) but suppose I don't trust my own thoughts and feelings that much so easily influenced x
peruano99 Posted February 12, 2014 Posted February 12, 2014 If you truly want to move on from the OM and focus on your relationship, then you should probably think about moving somewhere else far away from the OM.
miguelcervantes Posted February 12, 2014 Posted February 12, 2014 Wistfulgirl, simple question for you to start with: Do you love your husband ? Yes or No. If no, then you should separate. If yes, then next question: Are you in love with your husband ? Yes or No. If no, then based on the fact that you once were (or why would you have got married), would you like to rekindle this ? If no, then separate else forget about the OM and work on your marriage as advised. If you are in love with your husband, I would still ask why ? What is it that makes you be in love with him (although somehow I am pre-empting your answer and going to say that you probably are not in love with him). However if you are, then think about why and use that to drive the other guy out of your mind. The fact that the OM had such a profound effect on you must make you want to know what is wrong with your life because I can assure you, he was just another player of sorts. Sure he had feelings for you - you probably are very attractive and kind - so why not. But he knew that you were cheating on your husband and as much as you sugar-coat it, that would put you into a certain category in his mind - she wants to play and be played. So the above exercise should end with you either separating from your husband or working on your marriage. There should be no other option at this stage. Definitely stop looking for comfort and support over him dumping you - probably the best thing he could have done for you. 2
Author wistfulgirl Posted February 12, 2014 Author Posted February 12, 2014 Miguelcerventes - yes I do love my H. But you're right, I'm not "in love" with him. And as selfish as this sounds, I do feel sad that to stay with my H I would have to live the rest of my life never feeling that way again. I really value (and perhaps overvalue) passion, intimacy and connection and as much as I really do want to recapture this with my H I really don't know if it's possible. But I am aware that he is the only man that has ever really loved me so don't want to throw that all away for nothing. It feels harsh that fOM would judge me for falling for him after he persued me so heavily and knew that I had only been with 3 men in my life before him and never cheated on my H. Of course, he may have thought all along that I was lying, but being honest with each other was v important to us due to the nature of our relationship (which is another reason it hurts so much that he believes this friends lies and has written me off as a liar when I was always 100% honest with him.) Suppose that's just my karma for cheating on my H. I do want to work at things with my H and I am doing this in real life, I'm just finding it hard to overcome what happened with fOM which is why I came here to get it all out and try and find another way of looking at things to make me feel better. But appreciate that most here find it completely distasteful that I'm seeking support over this so perhaps I should go back to trying to work this out in my own mind, as most (but not all) of what's been said here has made me feel selfish, self indulgent, immoral and "disgusting". And like I have no right to reach out for help when I'm hurting as have made my bed and now have to lie in it. *im not referring to you when I say that xx
peruano99 Posted February 12, 2014 Posted February 12, 2014 Wistful girl, you would have to actually want to take the OM from your mind for good. You say you want to forget about him, but you don't seem to want to take him out of your mind. I know it's hard, but you will have to try.
Author wistfulgirl Posted February 12, 2014 Author Posted February 12, 2014 I do want to forget him and remove him from my mind but can't seem to stop thinking about him. It's not conscious, but am reminded every day. Can't listen to any love songs cus they upset me too much, and know he's off making plans with his new GF and will be spending his 1st valentines with a girl and has completely forgotten about me (most likely) and his memories and perceptions of me have been damaged over untruths. It may have affected me so much as I fell for him so hard and can't forget him, or may just be that his rejection after I completely dishonoured my marriage vows for him have left me feeling worthless and disposable and "not good enough" due to the whole situation. But believe me, I really wish I could forget and move on, and the best thing for everyone would be for me to fall back in love with my H and him to live happily ever after with this new girl. My heart and my mind just haven't caught up yet x
CarrieT Posted February 12, 2014 Posted February 12, 2014 Wistful - when you married your husband, did you feel passion and romance? Do you realize that the "passion" you feel/felt for your AffairPartner is just as illusive? Those feelings created dopamine in your brain and acts like a drug. THAT is what you are craving. Because if you suddenly had your Affair Partner back as a life partner, I can guarantee those feelings of passion would not last either. So - back to your husband... You cite the standard, "I love but am not 'in love'" drivel. Again; when you got married, did you have that passion and romance toward your husband? Because if you did, it is possible to get that back. But it takes work. If you don't think it is possible, the best thing you can do is separate from your husband and NOT live this life of constant wanting and desire for something you cannot attain. 1
Author wistfulgirl Posted February 12, 2014 Author Posted February 12, 2014 CarrieT - thanks for your comments. At the time I married my H, no, I did not feel passion and romance. We got married after been together 10yrs and those feelings had already long gone. I probably only felt that "in love" feeling with him for the first 2yrs, but was still faithful until 13.5yrs so suppose I'd missed that magical feeling. I know I've said the "love but not in love drivel", but it's the truth! And I don't know if I'm in the frame of mind and mental well being to ascertain whether I should leave in search of the "in love" feeling with someone else, or whether it is natural that after all that time together I don't feel that way. Fair point that the passion etc prob would have worn off after time if actually got with fOM officially, but felt like we had more in common, never ran out of things to talk about etc anyway so may have still been a better match after the excitement phase had worn off. And yeah, it def like a drug that I've got myself addicted to and can no longer have. Have been attempting to cope and block out my feelings in all the wrong ways too. And recognise that it's likely my own issues of low self worth that have led to this situation and fueled my grief and inability to move on. Hope this gets easier xxx
miguelcervantes Posted February 12, 2014 Posted February 12, 2014 Wistfulgirl, from what you say, your passionate and romantic feelings for your husband had long gone by the time you married him. On the face of it, this would appear bad and you would normally be advised to separate/file for divorce. However, you said long gone which implies that it was there at the start. So it is to that start that you must go. Something was there that was lost and it is what you must try to recover. If you were in love with him once, maybe you can do it again. Why do you think it is not possible. Think back to what it was about him that made you fall in love with him (we all know why you love him - he is a good, honourable guy - we get it). Was it his character, personality, humour, looks, whatever ? Try and work on that. Remember that marriages evolve over time. You start with the romance and passion and then develop longer term love. Again, what can derail this is falling for a player. A player can take a perfectly normal marriage (complete with problems and dissatisfaction) that can be helped along with counselling when needed, and turn it on its head - seduce a bored, dissatisfied, maybe even vulnerable wife and charm the pants off her. All of this in the name of love (would you believe it). Its easy to see the charming personality in someone else when you have boring, same-old same-old at home! This is why in order to give your marriage a fair chance, you need to forget about this OM even if he had the looks of Brad Pitt, the suaveness of George Clooney, the intelligence of Mark Damon and the humour of Robin Williams! (disclaimer: not necessarily my views except for Robin Williams). He is still a player of one kind or another and you are still in the romantic fog! Give your husband a chance to prove that he is the better man that can make you fall in love with him again. Not saying that it will work out but at least you can then walk away saying you did give it every chance. And if you do walk away, maybe you will find love again but this time hopefully you will go in with your eyes open and will not fall for a player who got his kicks from bedding married women. 2
CarrieT Posted February 12, 2014 Posted February 12, 2014 My point is that the "in love" feeling - like you described with your husband for the first two years - is NORMAL and, like that oxytocin drug I described that occurs in the brain, only lasts about that long! Staying in love with someone takes work, but that "in love" feeling is *NOT* sustainable! So if you leave for husband to search for that feeling, sure you may find it, but you will never - ever - be able maintain it. Instead, you might have the type of life I had where I hopped from one man to another to keep getting that feeling; and learning late in life that it is illusive and not sustainable. 1
William Posted February 12, 2014 Posted February 12, 2014 Members, as this is a long thread and a work in progress for the thread starter, moderation advises, based on a recent report and quickly scanning to see what work we've done here already, that members read through the thread to catch the nuances and updates, as well as remain civil and respectful in their comments. Helpful and thoughtful postings are greatly appreciated. Thanks! 1
Author wistfulgirl Posted February 12, 2014 Author Posted February 12, 2014 Thanks CarrieT, I know what you mean and am aware of the PEA and Oxytocin and other love chemicals and their place in the "continuation of the species!" And agree that this is not sustainable. When those feelings wore off with my H back in the day I read "The Road Less Travelled" which explained that "in love" phenomenon and made me more cynical about love. This was around the same time I found out that my H had cheated (ONS with girl he'd known from college) and as was also going through a deep depression at the time maybe all led to feeling disconnected from him. I suppose I hold onto the fantasy of fOM as was always so connected and intense, was more like "making love" (cheesy as it sounds!) when with him and I hadn't had that feeling since those first few years with my H. But I do acknowledge that those initial feelings wouldn't last with him if we'd have been together for the long run. Gutted that he's obviously feeling those for his new GF now when I'm still trying to forget about him all these months later. I just envy those who say they are still in love with their spouses after many many years of marriage and are completely sure about their love and have no desire for anyone else. Guess that's what we all strive for. *Congrats on your recent marriage btw! Sounds like you've found the one for you! Xxx 1
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