Is he "Winning?"

[Still-I-Rise]

Still-I-Rise - Peeling back the layers, you can certainly see what you are dealing with here.

 

Why was your daughter so perplexed for you to leave back in 2003? My daughter was very similar about my marriage to her step-dad.....but she also saw the things that I didn't always want to see either.

 

Come to think of it there was some physical abuse back then. (I tend to forget. Not sure if it has to do with being dissociative or not.)

 

He was physical with me in front of the kids and told them he was going to get help.

 

Every now and again, not too often, he would get physical with me but I would fight back. Last January he threw something in a rage that sliced the area next to one of my eyes. A little closer and I could've lost it. I had to have stitches and wear a patch. I sported a black eye back to work following my New Year's holiday.

 

I never told on him although I'd called a couple of his cousins - both police officers - at times to get him to leave me alone.

 

Thing is I wasn't afraid of him because I didn't know he was driving me crazy.

 

My sister who lives in another state told me she was happy and sad when he'd gone. Sad because I had Stockholm Syndrome.

 

I know I have a long road ahead of me but I am glad the fog has started to lift.

 

He really is a low-life scumbag.

[Still-I-Rise]

Lie about ANYTHING and EVERYTHING. Twist words. Be the victim. Ugh.

He was the "victim" to me from as early as I could remember. I remember asking for a chocolate bar at the store. He let me have it and then blew up at me when got in the truck because I "knew he wouldn't say no to me in front of other people and how was this and that." I cried and ate my chocolate because he told me to "eat it now because I wanted it so bad."

 

Many many many many examples like this. Giving me something and then resenting me for it. Or promising the world and not delivering. Guilting, raging, completely unstable.

 

Dreaming...,

 

This was our life with him. Period. Listening to your story and thinking about what my children experienced makes me feel ashamed for allowing my kids to endure him for so long*.

 

Sad thing is he used to tell me his mother treated him the way you described your dad's treatment when was a kid and it hurt him. So I always felt sorry for him. She is an ever-victim.

 

After he left this year he became the victim by telling everyone how me and the children mistreated him. How it was all my fault. I didn't prepare our kids for the real world, so on and so forth.

 

*There were times when I felt like a stepford wife especially when he'd been on a negativity bent for an extended period. He was especially awful the past couple years with the extreme lies and delusions of grandeur. Looking back I must've seemed like a robotic mother always trying to keep the peace, making sure everything was still being handled.

 

I have so much to make up for.

 

I've been going through the motions since he left, trying to keep the house, car, ... keep the trains running on time so to speak. I talk to my kids daily and check their mental states as best I can. We play board games, video games and watch movies together.

 

I've apologized so many times to them and am looking into family counseling.

EAP suggested we each do individual counseling first.

 

Anyway, if there is anything I should be showing them you'd like to have seen or heard from your mother, please let me know.

 

Thanks and I am sorry you had such a difficult childhood with your dad.

[Steadfast]

He could have anything and everything he ever wanted and not be 'winning'. A life without honor is hollow. This is deathbed stuff.

 

You'll know you've healed when you look at him for what he is and understand. Without hate, or vile pity. You'll be far above it. Over it. We do this by focusing on our own shortcomings and not passing the buck. We only control ourselves; why waste time trying to convince? It's beyond control.

 

So much good comes from being part of the solution, not part of the problem. You will overcome this and become stronger...if that's what you really desire. Abusing cheaters usually stay that way. It's easier for them. Never compare your life to his. You're better off aiming for a higher goal.

[Still-I-Rise]

My father paid for his mistress' school courses and backed out of paying mine. Same thing. Not able to get my grades until they were paid.

Real problems with the neighbours too.

 

He always wanted to be a cop too. Would get into altercations in public.

Lie about ANYTHING and EVERYTHING. Twist words. Be the victim. Ugh.

He was the "victim" to me from as early as I could remember. I remember asking for a chocolate bar at the store. He let me have it and then blew up at me when got in the truck because I "knew he wouldn't say no to me in front of other people and how was this and that." I cried and ate my chocolate because he told me to "eat it now because I wanted it so bad."

 

Many many many many examples like this. Giving me something and then resenting me for it. Or promising the world and not delivering. Guilting, raging, completely unstable.

 

Do you want to know something funny?

When I was 22 I met my husband. I had already been through Hell because the only self-esteem I had was escaping the rat-trap that was "home."

 

My husband was a bum. A full-on bum. Lived under bridges slept outside (not a shelter bum).

 

I became a bum with him. And people were SO MUCH NICER TO ME than I ever had at home. Sure people a few times a day would yell at me or whatever, but I was safer being homeless begging for change than I was at home. -

'

And honestly, my Dad had it so that I believed màybe 50-70% of the world was disgusted with me (openly) or would hurt me in some way. Pfft. Less than 1%. Far less. 80-95% just ignored me. And some people were offended by that LOL.

 

You've had quite a life experience!

 

My children's father was the same way in making them think everyone just wanted to hurt them. Especially the girls. A part of me believes he left because he could not control them any longer.

 

Glad you learned otherwise and that they are as well.

 

My daughters now tell me they believe he never wanted them to date because they would see how awful his treatment of me really was. I'm not sure that's the reason. It's like he wanted to be king over us.

 

I now believe he was filled with chaos his whole life and whenever he visited it upon us felt justified in making us experience what he always felt.

[Still-I-Rise]

He could have anything and everything he ever wanted and not be 'winning'. A life without honor is hollow. This is deathbed stuff.

 

You'll know you've healed when you look at him for what he is and understand. Without hate, or vile pity. You'll be far above it. Over it. We do this by focusing on our own shortcomings and not passing the buck. We only control ourselves; why waste time trying to convince? It's beyond control.

 

So much good comes from being part of the solution, not part of the problem. You will overcome this and become stronger...if that's what you really desire. Abusing cheaters usually stay that way. It's easier for them. Never compare your life to his. You're better off aiming for a higher goal.

 

Thank you, Steadfast.

 

Let me say unequivocally that overcoming this and becoming stronger is indeed what I desire.

 

I do not want to hate him. I feel sad for him.

 

What I don't want is that sadness to allow me to keep thinking I can fix him, that it is my duty to do so, even though he has abandoned us.

 

Just writing this all out on this thread is making me see that I can grow from this. I can do more than survive, which is what I am already good at.

 

I can thrive and become someone I can look in the mirror and be proud of.

[dreamingoftigers]

I always wished my parents would split.

In hindsight that's pretty abnormal for kids.

I hoped my mom would just have me.

She said she couldn't leave because she had two autistic children.

She should have left long before my sister though (twelve years younger).

 

If my husband treated my daughter the way my Dad treated me he would've had his ass thrown down the curb so fast that he would have scraped it for half a block.

 

Trippi,

 

Like your daughter, I think she saw things I did not see. Back then I had a 2 year old.

 

I could tell you things my other children said that left me reeling.

 

Kids are very perceptive.

 

I was mostly sad when he was around. But with them I was all fun and sunshine.

 

I was resigned to be unfulfilled and unhappily married and thought my payment of that sad tax meant they would not.

 

I now see it didn't work that way.

[trippi1432]

That's how you came across.

 

programmed.

 

Which is what his treatment has done to you.

He's turned you into a predictable-response organism.

 

Time to break out of that armour and reveal a newer, better, healed, independent you.

 

And thank your daughter, too.

 

 

Good luck. Keep us posted.

 

And whatever he tries to get you to do?

 

Do the opposite.

 

Still-I-Rise - I want to go back to this advice right here....I have to admit, Tara typically nails it right out of the gate and what struck me most was the "making you a predictable-response organism". How can you arm yourself to not give him the response he wants?

 

I think what you do need to consider is that he knows the right buttons to push, he continues to push them.....abandoning the kids, refusing to aid with school, the girlfriend and shuttling your ideas to help his "damsel in distress".

 

When my exH and I first split up in 2009, I refused to speak to him but turned to Divorce Care who coached me on getting him back in the house so we could work on reconciliation. I liken this now to several scenes out of Pet Cemetery. My daughter was livid as to why I would even want him back. He literally played the predictable-response pattern for two years even after we divorced. Who has the power to break that pattern? The same person who has control over what and how they respond, simply put...YOU have that power. He's not in control of anything.....in fact, he's so out of control of anything that he has to make idle threats to try and maintain control over you, the kids, the emotions.

 

Everything is opening up now.....it's like a huge rush at your head...and I totally get the Stockholm Syndrome thing. You've been on auto-pilot for a long time, taking care of things and not being able to comprehend or want to deal with the manipulation. In a real, trusting marriage, why should there be manipulation to the extent that you have been dealt? The waking up and putting all those pieces together can add a lot of stress, so be good to yourself right now....but know you are finding your strength.

[Still-I-Rise]

Still-I-Rise - I want to go back to this advice right here....I have to admit, Tara typically nails it right out of the gate and what struck me most was the "making you a predictable-response organism". How can you arm yourself to not give him the response he wants?

 

I think what you do need to consider is that he knows the right buttons to push, he continues to push them.....abandoning the kids, refusing to aid with school, the girlfriend and shuttling your ideas to help his "damsel in distress".

 

When my exH and I first split up in 2009, I refused to speak to him but turned to Divorce Care who coached me on getting him back in the house so we could work on reconciliation. I liken this now to several scenes out of Pet Cemetery. My daughter was livid as to why I would even want him back. He literally played the predictable-response pattern for two years even after we divorced. Who has the power to break that pattern? The same person who has control over what and how they respond, simply put...YOU have that power. He's not in control of anything.....in fact, he's so out of control of anything that he has to make idle threats to try and maintain control over you, the kids, the emotions.

 

Everything is opening up now.....it's like a huge rush at your head...and I totally get the Stockholm Syndrome thing. You've been on auto-pilot for a long time, taking care of things and not being able to comprehend or want to deal with the manipulation. In a real, trusting marriage, why should there be manipulation to the extent that you have been dealt? The waking up and putting all those pieces together can add a lot of stress, so be good to yourself right now....but know you are finding your strength.

 

Thank you, Trippi.

 

I am in tears now.

 

My husband is gone permanently and I don't think he will ever come back. However, thank you for sharing your experience because I can see allowing him back in our home would be to no avail.

 

In the midst of coping with the practical as well as emotional issues he left behind I realize I am also blaming myself big time which I know was his tool to use on me as well.

 

I will remember to be good to myself. Through seeing the past for what it was and not the dream I was keeping alive, I am gaining strength and coming into my own.

[trippi1432]

Thank you, Trippi.

 

I am in tears now.

 

My husband is gone permanently and I don't think he will ever come back. However, thank you for sharing your experience because I can see allowing him back in our home would be to no avail.

 

In the midst of coping with the practical as well as emotional issues he left behind I realize I am also blaming myself big time which I know was his tool to use on me as well.

 

I will remember to be good to myself. Through seeing the past for what it was and not the dream I was keeping alive, I am gaining strength and coming into my own.

 

Part of moving forward is seeing the past for what it was.....but the future is what you dream and where you will find yourself and your strength and you will be so much better for it. Every day is a step forward. Hugs!!

[Still-I-Rise]

I always wished my parents would split.

In hindsight that's pretty abnormal for kids.

I hoped my mom would just have me.

She said she couldn't leave because she had two autistic children.

She should have left long before my sister though (twelve years younger).

 

If my husband treated my daughter the way my Dad treated me he would've had his ass thrown down the curb so fast that he would have scraped it for half a block.

 

Dreaming...,

 

While I think my children are probably sad because our family has broken apart (they don't show this), they are very happy he is gone from the house. (The middle two begged me to leave him earlier this year. They saw what I could not see.)

 

The first weekend he left, I invited my eldest daughter's boyfriend and best friend to visit for the weekend. First time.

 

The stbxh stopped by around 11:30 pm the night they arrived to argue about the car or something. He told my daughter her friends had to leave (she and her boyfriend were visiting from college and her best friend we've known since 5th grade). I told him no way and said he didn't get to make that decision as he'd walked out on us. He said, "Now do you see why I had to leave? Things were never going to change otherwise." He was right.

 

Anyway, he ended up storming out.

 

I recalled that to say they are happy because our family feels more normal now. We can invite people over.

 

We can have real service men fix repairs at our house.

 

We don't have the intense negative energy that used to make us physically sick hovering inside our home.

 

He used to make the kids think a ride to school (pretty close) was something only royal children should have and gave them major grief if they asked.

 

Well, now, it's rides all the time!

 

Small requests of him were major crimes and misdemeanors on our parts. Yet he would ask for the world and I'd scramble to give it to him on a silver platter.

Edited January 2, 2014 by Still-I-Rise

[dreamingoftigers]

You've had quite a life experience!

 

My children's father was the same way in making them think everyone just wanted to hurt them. Especially the girls. A part of me believes he left because he could not control them any longer.

 

Glad you learned otherwise and that they are as well.

 

My daughters now tell me they believe he never wanted them to date because they would see how awful his treatment of me really was. I'm not sure that's the reason. It's like he wanted to be king over us.

 

I now believe he was filled with chaos his whole life and whenever he visited it upon us felt justified in making us experience what he always felt.

 

ERMAGHERD!!!!!!

 

Yes same thing.

Made sure to drive any potential boyfriends away via physical or otherwise threat.

 

I did something pretty funny in hindsight though.

If I had a first date with a guy, I would just keep that to myself. But my second date, I would have him meet me or pick up from my home.

He would meet my Dad.

 

If he could deal with that solid level of crap and walk out with me and not judge me by it or get into a scrap with him, we became an item (generally).

 

Sooooo many guys were scared sh*tless of my Dad.

(He can be REALLY nuts).

 

In fact I got a ride home from a job one night and the guy dropping me off thought I was pointing to the house next to mine. He could see my father through his window and he said "jeez, that guy looks like a scary man. Watch out for him!" (I'm totally not kidding, this actually happened LOL)

And I said "that's my Dad."

And he said "no, it's not. No way."

I laughed and I said, "yup, you wanna come ànd meet him."

"Noooo. That's okay. No thank you."

Then my Dad came outside the door and started yelling "Hey!" And flipped the outside lights on and off. So I went in and he told me he did that because the guy with me was "clearly not letting me out of the car." Pffft.

Really? He drove me home, parked in front of my psycho Dad, and then confined me? LMAO. It was about pure intimidation and control. But everything was. And he was always trying to be "somebody's hero."

 

I will say that the second-date Dad sh*t test had some pretty funny results.

Of the guys that passed:

One just looked terrified like a bus ran into him. We dated a little bit.

One just kept calling my Dad "sir" and looking at the floor. And my Dad didn't like that he started saying "don't call me sir! I work for a living!"

One turned out to be bipolar so everytime my Dad tried to ask him a question he would respond excitedly. (This one was hilarious, actually). At one point he noticed a small clock my Dad had made and this intrigued my Dad that he noticed this. And then he kind of messed it up by saying "oh, it's in Roman Numerals, and I can't read Roman Numerals so I would never know what time it is. LMAO!) I wasn't sure myself what had happened with him. I thought maybe he was just nervous so I told my Dad that we had been drinking and that he wasn't used to it. The truth was he was a Mormon kid and he was bipolar without meds. And yes, he could tell what time it was on the clock LMAO."

 

One guy was so wrecked by meeting my Dad that my Dad just looked at him for awhile and didn't say anything. We were together 1.5 years (in high school) and my Dad didn't say anything to him the whole time. One day Dad was giving me a ride in the truck and out of the blue just said "you aren't going to marry Danny are you?" I just said "no." And he give the biggest sigh of relief. So dramatic. He said "I don't even talk to him because if I sneezed I think he would DIE." Honestly, I think he was right.

 

The last ex before my husband didn't stand up to him but was a little snobbish to my Dad. My Dad was really asking for it though. My Dad got right up close to him in his face and all abd then left him alone. My Dad would akways harass him to drink and he wouldn't (Mormon). I didn't drink either and it really irked my Dad.

 

My husband handled him the best. Period.

We decided we were getting married pretty early on in the game. He met my father before we became bf & gf. It was one if the last times I actually tried to include my Dad in my life. Sort of a long-dying hope that as I reached adulthood and became more independent that he would respect that. Nah. I told him "I like you Dad" right in front of my (now) husband. He looked me right in the face and said "don't waste your time." He knew my (now) husband was a bum and a friend of mine. He did not introduce himself or allow himself to be introduced by me.

 

When my husband and I did become an item, my Dad (I swear) instinctually knew this was the real deal. The threats escalated and I cut him out of my life. Ill never forget my husband standing toe to toe with him, unflinching and saying "i know that you're trying to intimdate me and its not going to work. I am going to marry your daughter." At one point my father even "gave permission" and they shook hands. Then he reneged and said he never did.

 

He said he didn't want to go to my wedding. That he didn't care etc. told me he wouldn't pay a dime for it. We didn't care. We bummed the money for it. I am not kidding. We rented a small room in the Banff Springs Hotel. We invited a very small group of people. My mother said that she would come unless my father came. I told her to stay home too. Three days before the wedding they tracked me down and put the pressure on. I got a half-assed apology and they got an invitation. We also told the hotel for security reasons abd they out someone on the floor for it. I did not have my Dad walk me down the aisle. He was not "giving me away." I wasn't his to give. I made my choice.

 

The wedding was really cheap and I couldn't have been happier.

There wasn't much to it but it was still pretty and my best friends were there. One of them baked the wedding cake. We planned and put together the whole thing in seven weeks.

My father refused to smile in any if the photos.

And he insisted he was bringing booze. The wedding was a dry one as I had joined the Mormon church and my husband had quit drinking to help get himself off of the streets. My Dad freaked out about that saying my husband must have a "really bad alcohol" problem if he can't handle alcohol being at a wedding and that it was a "personal attack" against him.

 

My husband and him don't get along (I know, I'm so shocked too).

One time my Dad came to our place and refused to leave and started banging on the door that he HAD to be let in. Then he threatened to call the police. And he did. Well this pissed off my husband who called the police on my Dad because he was banging on the door and would go away. :facepalm:

So the police come and tell my Dad to go home and they also give my husband crap for calling them. Ridiculous.

 

I once told my Dad that I was impressed with how if he believed in something he would fight for it but then I asked "do you have to fight with EVERYONE though?" His response: "I don't want to get rusty."

[trippi1432]

Just for amusement to help put a bit of a smile on your face....in the summer, I pay a landscape guy to mow my yard. They are done in 15 minutes and there is no stress, chaos, screaming or yelling about it.....it's been so freeing. Keep looking at the positives.

[dreamingoftigers]

We don't have the intense negative energy that used to make us physically sick hovering inside our home.

 

Small requests of him were major crimes and misdemeanors on our parts. Yet he would ask for the world and I'd scramble to give it to him on a silver platter.

 

My mother in law has that energy. I believe it is actually killing my father in law. She isolates him as well. Won't let him talk on the phone etc. really messed up. Used to lock my husband in his room. It's a lot worse than that. But lets just say my husband and I tell each other that we feel bad for the other's childhood.

 

But that underlying attitude is what is scary.

My father has it, my mother in law has it AND my husband has it. He does.

And it's brutal. I don't know exactly how to deal with it but I think it will cause a split eventually unless he addresses it.

 

These people are so focused on being the victim that they aren't grateful for the people and things in their life. A lack of gratitude is so toxic to relationships.

[Still-I-Rise]

My mother in law has that energy. I believe it is actually killing my father in law. She isolates him as well. Won't let him talk on the phone etc. really messed up. Used to lock my husband in his room. It's a lot worse than that. But lets just say my husband and I tell each other that we feel bad for the other's childhood.

 

But that underlying attitude is what is scary.

My father has it, my mother in law has it AND my husband has it. He does.

And it's brutal. I don't know exactly how to deal with it but I think it will cause a split eventually unless he addresses it.

 

These people are so focused on being the victim that they aren't grateful for the people and things in their life. A lack of gratitude is so toxic to relationships.

 

 

I hope your husband acknowledges any tendencies toward victimhood and refuses to play that game for the rest of his life.

 

I'm now working on myself and realizing I want to release any such tendencies.

 

I've begun thinking thinking about changing my language about what's happened. "He left us," is starting to sound like we are victims/casualties he left behind when we are so much more than that!

[Still-I-Rise]

Guess who called two days in a row?

 

More importantly, guess who did not answer?!

 

Thank you all for helping me become empowered!

 

I have a long road to travel in my journey to self-development but I am relieved to have finally set upon a path that makes sense.

 

Onward and upward!

[Still-I-Rise]

When my stbxh was dangling the carrot of truth before me my eldest daughter pleaded I stop chasing it. She said, 'Mom, his next reason for leaving will be because water is wet. You don't need to know. Let it go.'

 

After his calls the past two days I realized that while I felt empowered because I didn't respond, the power I wish to feel and summon forth has little to do with him.

 

I want to use my power for something meaningful and purposeful.

 

So, I researched and implemented call blocking through my phone carrier. I did this because although his numbers were blocked on my actual phone it would ring once before blocking, leaving a record of a missed call.

 

However, now that his numbers are officially blocked, I won't know he has called and will avoid mentally engaging in the whys and wherefores.

 

As explained in the NC thread, one of the issues of contact isn't that he attempted to reach me but rather what I choose to make of it.

 

And as far as I'm concerned, there are only four reasons he could ever need to speak with me and he has already put paid to them.

 

He made clear when he abandoned us and through his repeated actions and admissions to the mediator, judge, me, his family, my children, God, the Universe, the King of Siam, Etc., etc., and so forth, that he wants nothing to do with our four children.

 

And that means he wants nothing to do with me. Period.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Still-I-Rise

[trippi1432]

Good for you Still-I-Rise. Sometimes the silence is Golden.

 

The only "talking" that needs to happen can be through your lawyers.

[dreamingoftigers]

When my stbxh was dangling the carrot of truth before me my eldest daughter pleaded I stop chasing it. She said, 'Mom, his next reason for leaving will be because water is wet. You don't need to know. Let it go.'

 

After his calls the past two days I realized that while I felt empowered because I didn't respond, the power I wish to feel and summon forth has little to do with him.

 

I want to use my power for something meaningful and purposeful.

 

So, I researched and implemented call blocking through my phone carrier. I did this because although his numbers were blocked on my actual phone it would ring once before blocking, leaving a record of a missed call.

 

However, now that his numbers are officially blocked, I won't know he has called and will avoid mentally engaging in the whys and wherefores.

 

As explained in the NC thread, one of the issues of contact isn't that he attempted to reach me but rather what I choose to make of it.

 

And as far as I'm concerned, there are only four reasons he could ever need to speak with me and he has already put paid to them.

 

He made clear when he abandoned us and through his repeated actions and admissions to the mediator, judge, me, his family, my children, God, the Universe, the King of Siam, Etc., etc., and so forth, that he wants nothing to do with our four children.

 

And that means he wants nothing to do with me. Period.

 

This is such a HUGE step!

So important and intelligent!

Proud of you!

[Still-I-Rise]

Well, he did not show for the hearing he necessitated in December by fabricating about his employment and medical circumstances.

 

He refuses to pay child support and the court did not request wage garnishment.

 

I am at the point where maintaining a home and decent standard of living for me and the children are becoming more of a challenge.

 

Seems like he should be willing to pay for his freedom with the OW. Why all the delay and histrionics if he filed for divorce?

 

I want to scream at the unfairness of it all but it is pointless. I want to lash out and hurt those who hurt me - I can really cause major issues of devastating consequence - but I won't.

 

Not sure if that means I am weak or passive or just not interested in hurting because I've been hurt.

 

The financial devastation/burden he left behind and abandonment of our children makes it harder for me to move on.

 

Sometimes it all feels too much even for my Job-like patience.

 

I'm hoping I will at least be awarded lawyer fees for the missed hearing.

 

I did not get to see the judge but instead my attorney was called in and reprimanded because the court bailiffs complained she was being difficult.

 

My attorney took issue because they repeatedly passed over me, although she inquired several times. Turned out my check-in sheet had been misplaced.

 

I am a fighter and will keep fighting but boy is it hard!

Edited January 26, 2014 by Still-I-Rise

[Still-I-Rise]

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/471843-can-ow-situation-2.html#post5850314