Complicated is complicated

[2sunny]

How about being on your own for a long while?

 

You seem to depend too much on men to provide your happiness. That's backwards.

 

Find how to be happy on your own. Spend time getting to know yourself. Stand on your own without taunting these men.

 

Find out who you really are.

 

Then decide if you intend to work on the M.

 

Leave the OM alone - you've caused him a lot of harm and confusion.

 

He seems unhealthy - a good co dependent candidate. A caretaker. A rescuer.

[firemanq]

Is he sure the child is his? Are you sure? If there is doubt, it will definately make is difficult for him to bond with the child. You said his father was cold and distant, a trait he now exhibits. His social skills are lacking and he probably has trouble relating to people. Now there is a child, and babies just cannot hold an adult conversation. I know, you ladies think the noises and facial gestures are exciting, but not all men are that taken by babies. We have to be trained, and he does not trust you, you betrayed him and the child. He is afraid the whole reconcialtion will fail and he will be alone. If he bonds with the baby, his pain will just be that much worse. He works the hours because he is hiding from you.

 

And after a week and half, you expect all will be rosy? I know you have been dumped on and abused severly. You ain't seen nothin' yet.

 

As I have stated before, the child is the one most hurt.

Edited November 13, 2013 by firemanq
spelling

[salyssa]

Is he sure the child is his? Are you sure? If there is doubt, it will definately make is difficult for him to bond with the child. You said his father was cold and distant, a trait he now exhibits. His social skills are lacking and he probably has trouble relating to people. Now there is a child, and babies just cannot hold an adult conversation. I know, you ladies think the noises and facial gestures are exciting, but not all men are that taken by babies. We have to be trained, and he does not trust you, you betrayed him and the child. He is afraid the whole reconcialtion will fail and he will be alone. If he bonds with the baby, his pain will just be that much worse. He works the hours because he is hiding from you.

 

And after a week and half, you expect all will be rosy? I know you have been dumped on and abused severly. You ain't seen nothin' yet.

 

As I have stated before, the child is the one most hurt.

 

 

Am I sure the child is his? 100%. I never slept with another man until after she was born (the OM). And I completely agree. Some father's, especially with the first, don't bond until later on. I get it. He didn't carry her and birth her, so he won't have the connection I do as a mother.

 

I am instant gratification and impatient. I always expect people to move through things at my pace, and that is me being childish and stupid. I told him last night, that even with us attempting reconciliation, that if at any point he has had enough, I will understand and go. I told him he owes me absolutely nothing and I appreciate the absolute kindness he is offering with a second chance. I can take the crap I rightfully deserve and am stopping the bull.**** expectations that are extremely out of line considering what I have done to him.

 

A lot of these posts helped me see anger others experience and still hold on to. He isn't being nearly as harsh and *that* put a lot in perspective too. In grateful for the assumptions and harsh judgments. I also appreciate those who wanted to have a dialogue too. I did a bad thing and I need to grow the skin to deal with the repercussions of my actions.

 

It is my husband's choice to have me and I will give him full control of it. I will listen, be empathetic, a shoulder to cry on, and a sounding board for all the anger he needs to get out. I don't deserve him. That, is fact.

[2sunny]

What is your plan to address your anger, fear and co dependency?

 

What are you doing to change the inside of yourself?

[Snowflower]

I told him last night, that even with us attempting reconciliation, that if at any point he has had enough, I will understand and go. I told him he owes me absolutely nothing and I appreciate the absolute kindness he is offering with a second chance.

 

~snip~

 

I don't deserve him. That, is fact.

 

This ticks me off when WS say this...including when my own WH said it after d-day.

 

I told him to go ahead and leave

 

It is such a copout and martyr attitude.

 

If you want to truly make things right with your spouse, then try everything you can to save it. Don't make him be the one to end it.

[Clay]

Am I sure the child is his? 100%. I never slept with another man until after she was born (the OM). And I completely agree. Some father's, especially with the first, don't bond until later on. I get it. He didn't carry her and birth her, so he won't have the connection I do as a mother.

 

I am instant gratification and impatient. I always expect people to move through things at my pace, and that is me being childish and stupid. I told him last night, that even with us attempting reconciliation, that if at any point he has had enough, I will understand and go. I told him he owes me absolutely nothing and I appreciate the absolute kindness he is offering with a second chance. I can take the crap I rightfully deserve and am stopping the bull.**** expectations that are extremely out of line considering what I have done to him.

 

A lot of these posts helped me see anger others experience and still hold on to. He isn't being nearly as harsh and *that* put a lot in perspective too. In grateful for the assumptions and harsh judgments. I also appreciate those who wanted to have a dialogue too. I did a bad thing and I need to grow the skin to deal with the repercussions of my actions.

 

It is my husband's choice to have me and I will give him full control of it. I will listen, be empathetic, a shoulder to cry on, and a sounding board for all the anger he needs to get out. I don't deserve him. That, is fact.

 

 

 

Its good that you talked to him and you are showing him you are trying. That is a very good start but understand you are in for the hardest thing you will ever have to do. This is not going to be easy at all. There will be times when you feel you should just go. These are the times you need to be your strongest. It does sound like you are a strong willed woman but if you seriously want to make it work with your husband you need to set all the hurt aside you feel and work on building his trust again. Hopefully through you showing him your love he will start to feel safe. Counseling will be a must for both of you. I found a post the other night that might help you see this differently and help you I will find it again and post it for you.

 

I wish you both the very best in recovering your marriage.

 

Clay

[underwater2010]

Am I sure the child is his? 100%. I never slept with another man until after she was born (the OM). And I completely agree. Some father's, especially with the first, don't bond until later on. I get it. He didn't carry her and birth her, so he won't have the connection I do as a mother.

 

I am instant gratification and impatient. I always expect people to move through things at my pace, and that is me being childish and stupid. I told him last night, that even with us attempting reconciliation, that if at any point he has had enough, I will understand and go. I told him he owes me absolutely nothing and I appreciate the absolute kindness he is offering with a second chance. I can take the crap I rightfully deserve and am stopping the bull.**** expectations that are extremely out of line considering what I have done to him.

 

A lot of these posts helped me see anger others experience and still hold on to. He isn't being nearly as harsh and *that* put a lot in perspective too. In grateful for the assumptions and harsh judgments. I also appreciate those who wanted to have a dialogue too. I did a bad thing and I need to grow the skin to deal with the repercussions of my actions.

 

It is my husband's choice to have me and I will give him full control of it. I will listen, be empathetic, a shoulder to cry on, and a sounding board for all the anger he needs to get out. I don't deserve him. That, is fact.

 

Sounds as though you are starting to get it.

 

But on another note...Do YOU want this marriage?

Are you willing to take him as he is and not "search" for what you think he should be?

 

Can you handle the fact that he is an "old school" man, in that he works and provides rather than being hands on?

 

Can you live with the fact that he may forgive you, but will never forget?

 

Can you do what it takes to earn his trust?

 

Do you realize that you are only 1.5 weeks into HIS discovery of your affair and that it can take 2+ yrs for him/you/the marriage to recover...if it does?

 

These are just a few of the questions you need to find the answer to.

[salyssa]

What is your plan to address your anger, fear and co dependency?

 

What are you doing to change the inside of yourself?

 

Increase in therapy. Had a session yesterday and have one today too. With my pregnancy (I didn't feel much neglect before then and handled his working decently), I lost my head. I was on fertility medications to get pregnant, then put on hormones for the first trimester to maintain the pregnancy and not miscarry (progesterone levels tanked and I started having miscarriage symptoms). Then, at 34 weeks, my baby girl stopped growing. I was diagnosed with "intrauterine growth restriction" and I was induced at full term (38 weeks). After birth, I lost 1.25 liters if blood and it was due to placental retention. I had some serious issues and top put the cherry on top - postpartum depression. I am in therapy healing from the pregnancy and how I chose to react in my marriage. I normally don't have co-dependency issues, but I became too much of needing his attention during the pregnancy and I shouldn't of expected it based on how I know him. I'm not abused. I'm not under cared for. I let my emotions get out of control and I acted in very inappropriate ways. I can start healing from all this but I'm owing my wrongs now. Then we can move in a better direction (or he could call it- which he deserves to have control of).

 

If, after he heals, I still see too much distance with our family, I will talk with him about how to take on that hurdle. I don't want to diminish his recovery right now with too many things to fix?!?

[Betrayed&Stayed]

Salyssa,

 

Quick question: Are you an only child or the youngest of your siblings?

[2sunny]

Increase in therapy. Had a session yesterday and have one today too. With my pregnancy (I didn't feel much neglect before then and handled his working decently), I lost my head. I was on fertility medications to get pregnant, then put on hormones for the first trimester to maintain the pregnancy and not miscarry (progesterone levels tanked and I started having miscarriage symptoms). Then, at 34 weeks, my baby girl stopped growing. I was diagnosed with "intrauterine growth restriction" and I was induced at full term (38 weeks). After birth, I lost 1.25 liters if blood and it was due to placental retention. I had some serious issues and top put the cherry on top - postpartum depression. I am in therapy healing from the pregnancy and how I chose to react in my marriage. I normally don't have co-dependency issues, but I became too much of needing his attention during the pregnancy and I shouldn't of expected it based on how I know him. I'm not abused. I'm not under cared for. I let my emotions get out of control and I acted in very inappropriate ways. I can start healing from all this but I'm owing my wrongs now. Then we can move in a better direction (or he could call it- which he deserves to have control of).

 

If, after he heals, I still see too much distance with our family, I will talk with him about how to take on that hurdle. I don't want to diminish his recovery right now with too many things to fix?!?

 

This looks like you avoided answering!

 

You moved to drama. You moved to what others can change.

 

This is about what YOU can change about YOURSELF!!!

 

What are you changing? You're obviously still avoiding - have you been blunt with your ah about the attention you need from him?

[Clay]

Here is the post I told you about.

 

This to me is probably the most accurate thing I have read.

 

I know this post is not going to sit well with most WS here but in my opinion there seems to be a lot of difficulty understanding the pain the BS goes through after an affair is discovered. I know the WS is dealing with a lot of intense emotions such as guilt, shame, remorse, regret. But there seems to be a definite disconnect that I thought I'd address. While I am not the most intelligent or articulate person here on TAM I thought I’d try to describe the way my wife and I have come to understand the difference and how we related it to each other.

 

A person who has an affair does indeed have to deal with a lot of pain in the aftermath. They have to reevaluate their own identity and who they really are and their willingness to cause so much suffering to their loved ones. The statements “it’s just not in me to cheat” and “I could never do that” are in direct conflict with their actions. They have to come to the painful conclusion that they indeed are not the absolute good person they thought they were. They have to realize that there was something in them that allowed them to be selfish and cruel to the person or people they most cherished. And the scariest part is that they have to realize that since they’ve done it once they can do it again. Those self examinations are extremely difficult but necessary if the WS wants to become the person they always thought they already were and hope to actually become.

 

Here is where it gets hard for as much difficulty the WS has to go through they truly cannot comprehend the pain and anguish the BS has to endure. I want you to understand and remember two words. These are two very important words and it will help you to understand what your spouse is probably feeling even if they can’t express it. When they discovered your affair…YOU DIED! Let me say it again…YOU DIED! The person that your husband/wife married is gone forever. Think about a time when you lost someone really close to you. A father, mother, sister, brother, son, daughter, or spouse. Think of the grief that you had to deal with. That is the same grief that your spouse has to deal with each and every day. Every day that they wake up after D-Day you die again and they feel it again and it's just as intense. The feelings of loneliness, hopelessness, yes…anger (why did you leave me?) Can you even imagine the pain that he/she is going through? Probably not. Because you are the one that had died and they are the one that is left to pick up the pieces of a shattered life that was taken from. They are the ones that are left to deal with the loss of a loved one.

 

But here is the sick part. You are still here; but you aren’t! You are a doppelganger, a clone, an evil twin. You are the one that killed your spouse’s cherished love. You took the love of his/her life away forever violently and without mercy. You stabbed them, mutilated them, burned them and ultimately buried them. You are the monster that has torn up a family. You are the monster that has committed such a senseless heinous act. You are a murderer! And here's the part that most WS miss. You were aware of your actions. You stalked your husband/wife's spouse. You planned how to do it. You conspired with another murderer (the OM/OW) and you finally struck without warning and without honor. The BS was left in shock and dismay watching their cherished lover, friend, partner, confidant bleed to death in the street. They felt hopeless and helpless as the person they loved most in the world was taken from them. Their world...you...died that day.

 

And you want the grieving person to forgive you. Love you. Stay with you. Think about that for a minute. You, the pod person, the evil clone, the look alike murderer that destroyed the one person in life that your spouse cherished beyond all time and space want the sorrow filled, grief stricken, angry and injured beyond belief person to LOVE YOU? They had this involuntarily inflicted upon them. They had no choice. Only pain. And now you want them to choose to love you. Can you imagine going up to the person that murdered your loved one and choosing to love them?

 

Now you have a little glimpse into the psyche of your betrayed spouse. You also know why I always tell people that the old marriage is dead and the couple must learn to love each other as new…if they can. It is also why I recommend the betrayed spouse read “Just Let Them Go” even if they want to reconcile. Because you truly have to let the cheating spouse go in order to learn to hopefully love the new version of your husband/wife. It’s hard and it’s painful and it can only be done if the WS does everything to make the BS fall in love with them again.

 

 

 

I did not write this I found this on another forum.

 

Clay

[salyssa]

Salyssa,

 

Quick question: Are you an only child or the youngest of your siblings?

 

Youngest of two daughters.

[beach]

Do you work?

[salyssa]

Do you work?

 

Yes. Salaried - Manager position. Background and drug screening profession.

[Betrayed&Stayed]

Youngest of two daughters.

 

Hmm. How did I guess that? How many years in age difference?

 

Double or nothing: I also bet that your husband is a first-born or oldest son.

Edited November 13, 2013 by Betrayed&Stayed

[salyssa]

This looks like you avoided answering!

 

You moved to drama. You moved to what others can change.

 

This is about what YOU can change about YOURSELF!!!

 

What are you changing? You're obviously still avoiding - have you been blunt with your ah about the attention you need from him?

 

I didn't avoid. I said I need to heal myself (not saying a "what he did" ...) from feeling like a failure as a mother from the pregnancy. I carry that shame alone and it certainly has caused issue within myself. Therapist deems this critical to address. My own self-expectations and then projecting them onto others. I need to fix that. People aren't going to be what I want them to be and my brain has a hard time grasping that (ooooobviously). I need to be very honest with my husband about my needs and we have our first MC today (both have been in IC for months). But he also needs to tell me his. He can't read my mind and I can't read his. This dodgy game we have been playing for a long while isn't working. We both see that. We avoid topics of conflict often in the past as it just wasn't worth the fight. I need to freakin ' talk and I failed at doing so. Like Clay said, we need to start over because I killed the dedicated wife. We need to see if we can fall in love again and without selling ourselves and our values for the other. People say "compromise" but my therapist says "I don't like the word compromise because it sounds like someone is always losing. You need to strike a better deal.".

 

I need to see if I can tweak my perspective on things and not making them so personal. I feel attacked often when I'm not being attacked. Correctly assess situations and give them the accurate/appropriate response. Not be "impulsive". That is one of the many things.. I have a long list. Surprise, surprise.

[salyssa]

Hmm. How did I guess that? How many years in age difference?

 

Double or nothing: I also bet that your husband is a first-born or oldest son.

 

**insert golf clap here**

 

Well done. He is the oldest of two. Has a younger sister. He is 6 years my senior.

 

Age difference between my sister is 3 years.

 

Want to guess our astrological signs too? Or maybe if one of us has been sexually abused? People seem to wonder that.

[2sunny]

If/since you seem to have a great need for a close, intimate emotional bond - and your H doesn't - why not start there?

 

IF your needs don't even come close to aligning - it may be best to address what is real - that it's not a good match.

[2sunny]

**insert golf clap here**

 

Well done. He is the oldest of two. Has a younger sister. He is 6 years my senior.

 

Age difference between my sister is 3 years.

 

Want to guess our astrological signs too? Or maybe if one of us has been sexually abused? People seem to wonder that.

 

I'd guess the abuse was to him.

 

That would explain why he is void of emotion and stands firm on working to avoid emotional interaction.

[Yesterday]

Salyssa,

Sorry about your situation, for you, for your husband and mostly for your infant daughter.

 

Reading about your situation, and your responses, I can't recommend for you to reconcile at this time. I recommend you spend some time alone with your daughter, could be on your own if you can manage, or with your parents.

 

Go 100% no contact with the OM.

 

Give your husband room, and time to deal with his anger, humiliation and pain of your betrayal. He needs to know everything about what you have done to him, so stay in touch as often as he wishes, and be honest to any questions he may have. He won't trust you ever again, expect this and be completely transparent. Tell him of your location, what you are doing and your reasons for giving him space. Also, propose a time frame, so he knows this isn't to work out your feelings for the OM.

 

He can make his own decision about your marriage. He also needs to decide what sort of balance he is willing to keep between providing for his family, and being there for you and his daughter.

 

You need to come to terms with what is going to be best for your daughter and you. Remove yourself from the stress and probable false start to your reconciliation. Clear your head, I believe you are in a fog as you juggle too much emotion, likes, desires and defenses.

 

You know this has been a terrible start for bringing your daughter into the world, time to take small careful steps in the right direction for her and you.

[Betrayed&Stayed]

**insert golf clap here**

 

Well done. He is the oldest of two. Has a younger sister. He is 6 years my senior.

 

Age difference between my sister is 3 years.

 

Want to guess our astrological signs too? Or maybe if one of us has been sexually abused? People seem to wonder that.

 

Why are you getting defensive? Did I attack you?

 

You both fit the personality profiles. Just saying. I recommend that you look into how birth order affects the dynamics of your relationship. If a stranger on the internet can see it after a view posts, then it must be relevant.

Edited November 13, 2013 by Betrayed&Stayed

[salyssa]

I'd guess the abuse was to him.

 

That would explain why he is void of emotion and stands firm on working to avoid emotional interaction.

 

Neither if us were sexually abused. However, he was emotionally abused by his father (alcoholic) who is a Annapolis Navy grad and went on to study at Harvard in Law. His father never let my husband have a childhood (playing with friends, just being a goofy kid- type deal) and forced him into long nights and early mornings of projects. Projects, like science fairs and extra circular studies. Husband didn't want to be an engineer but his dad wanted it for him. Husband wanted to go a high end art college (in Rhode Island) and ended up at Stanford. He doesn't look back on ages 11-21 fondly. Was always working in one form or another.

[salyssa]

Why are you getting defensive? Did I attack you?

 

You both fit the personality profiles. Just saying. I recommend that you look into how birth order affects the dynamics of your relationship. If a stranger on the internet can see it after a view posts, then it must be relevant.

 

 

I'm sure it does have some relevancy. But, what role is my older sister supposed to have? Her being the older sibling is nothing like my husband's older sibling situation. My sister, might as well be younger.

 

But, you have piqued my curiosity. I am not being defensive, I guess you can say I mirror my husband's skeptical side (smiling while typing this) by not putting much stock into things that can have some general "statements" that people can apply to themselves, in almost every case.

 

(I cannot tell you how much it hurt my brain to see people saying "Mars is in retro-grade! That explains the craziness!" - So, please understand, I am not feeling you are attacking me personally, I am just a skeptic - and slightly amused.)

[ComingInHot]

Betrayed&Stayed has a point. You should Google it.*

[salyssa]

Salyssa,

Sorry about your situation, for you, for your husband and mostly for your infant daughter.

 

Reading about your situation, and your responses, I can't recommend for you to reconcile at this time. I recommend you spend some time alone with your daughter, could be on your own if you can manage, or with your parents.

 

Go 100% no contact with the OM.

 

Give your husband room, and time to deal with his anger, humiliation and pain of your betrayal. He needs to know everything about what you have done to him, so stay in touch as often as he wishes, and be honest to any questions he may have. He won't trust you ever again, expect this and be completely transparent. Tell him of your location, what you are doing and your reasons for giving him space. Also, propose a time frame, so he knows this isn't to work out your feelings for the OM.

 

He can make his own decision about your marriage. He also needs to decide what sort of balance he is willing to keep between providing for his family, and being there for you and his daughter.

 

You need to come to terms with what is going to be best for your daughter and you. Remove yourself from the stress and probable false start to your reconciliation. Clear your head, I believe you are in a fog as you juggle too much emotion, likes, desires and defenses.

 

You know this has been a terrible start for bringing your daughter into the world, time to take small careful steps in the right direction for her and you.

 

Probably the best advice yet. To be honest, not sure if I will heed it all, but the OM is out of the picture. I moved all of the apartment services to his name, so there is no further need to contact me. I always put my phone away at night and if I am on my work laptop, I am sitting right next to my husband. (I actually don't get out any electronics if he is home because *he is home*. Since he is taking the time to unplug himself, I believes he deserves the same courtesy.) I also am doing what you advised and telling him e-v-e-r-y-t-h-i-n-g. If I am going to the grocery store, when my meetings are etc etc. I even put up Google-chat so he can talk to me throughout the day and know I am here and available to him always. I know that this will probably have to be done for some time and I am accepting of it.

 

I don't know if I can move out of the house, now that I am back now. He has told me, verbally, how much he wants this to work and I married this man for a reason. In his IC, he is working on the workaholic and breaking the patterns his upbringing taught him. I believe in him. I've been through pain-killer addiction with him before (after a major surgery, he became addicted and actually had to detox with assistance). I know he will relapse, but I know he also hasn't had his family, in his home, because I took that from him when I had an affair. (Please note: I did not take his daughter - I took his wife/daughter connection to come home to.) I believe, I owe it to him to let him work this out as he can and to be patient and not expect the world like I have been. I do understand that if I can't fix my issues, I could be useless to this second chance, but I want to try for my family.