Why won't she do things with me she did with OM?

[atreides]

I am tired of reading, stuff like "not just sex" so many have a very cheap view of sex. So many like to blur things out with the use of "emotions" blah blah...

 

At least Coolit and CD came clean and admit to sexual exploration, but in my opinion, it all comes down to sex, no matter how many dances you have before. Like i said before in another post, an EA to me is non-existent, it sounds like something Psych like to use in the APA-DSM just to make more money. An EA is an A that is leading to physical and gets stopped short or is similar to fantasy sex, like phone sex... but sex nonetheless.

Our moral beliefs complicate the issue and start delineating what is sex or try to rise above it in some mythos of some sort. Ivory tower bull sh**

Sex of course can have all kinds of intent behind it thus making all of the complications and complexities arise as with so many threads in this forum.

Bottom line it is "just sex" it is what you do with it that makes it matter. I find it cheap to use "attention" for the front of what comes later. Sex is the ultimate in attention, in my opinion. Far from shallow, you share the most you can offer that way in mind, body and spirit.

 

CD and CM went down the road of hell with "open relationships", BUT, in reality CD wanted CM's friend or a variable partner in the end, she wanted to try something new and she was going to get it no matter what. The open relationship came as an idea for a front to cover that intent and make it legit. It backfired.

 

Now i read about CD saying CM is entitled to an open relationship or revenge affair. Holy sh** that is the road that lead you guys straight to hell. Either work on you as a couple in a marriage or just end it.

There is also clear communication issues CM has a different version of what CD is saying about anal sex in my opinion. This is not good and is why i stated it was "scary" in a post before.

 

There is a lot of sophistry from others about not doing certain things with H but with OM, only you know the truth to what you say here. My advise is read your H's sexual fantasy book if your are a wayward and do every dang chapter. That does not mean on demand or be damned with you but geesh it is the least that you could do.

Edited October 11, 2013 by atreides

[atreides]

Yeah I know. At least it gave my husband a small sense of satisfaction.

 

I know many women where they would feel rejected by that... yet you didn't obviously. so bizarre.

[road]

Actually, it need not be dangerous. At least not anymore that it already is.

 

If H has a vision of there being inherent "imbalance" caused by affair, and has thoughts having his own affair could restore the balance, not as a means to spite wife, just for that "balance" sake, and if wife can handle it, who knows... Not pressing anything, nor rejecting it right away. Like they seem to be doing. Maybe happens, maybe not.

 

But what if it was BS' dream all along to get to Bahamas, and WS knew it and rejected it everytime, yet going easily there, seemingly "on demand" with AP? Would suggest pretty unfulfilling relationship for BS, no? Can't make dreams come true, even though it would be possible? Partner not even pretending to be interested in making you happy? Random newcomer gets "full service" without batting an eyelid, but supposed "love of your life" has to be content with scraps? Doesn't sound too awesome, does it?

 

 

To advocate RA's shows a lack of knowledge on how to recover a marriage.

 

What you write makes you appear to never of been a BH. So where you a BH?

 

Dealing with affairs and recovery is not a spectator sport.

 

Though I will agree that a WW has no leg to stand on ( ) refusing to give her BH what she gave the OM. As to CD's saying rough oral. She said equipment size difference would make it not work out well.

 

So rough oral as with anything else can still be done by modifying the techniques used. As with anything else done during an affair. Even when the WW does everything with her BH that she did for her OM. What ever they do will not be done the same.

 

Three individuals.

 

BH and the OM are individuals and will do the same acts differently even when they are doing it with the same woman/WW.

 

Think of it as an orchestra. WW is the conductor. BH and OM are different. WW can lead each musician through the same song the same way. Though the song will sound different because every musician does not sound the same.

 

So for CD to take something off the table because it will not be as much fun with her BH as it was for her with her OM is not fair to her BH.

Edited October 11, 2013 by road

[jnel921]

My issue is that over the years I've been turned down when initiating sex. There's a litany of excuses from my wife: I'm too tired, I'm too cold, the kids are awake, I don't feel sexy right now, I'm too this, I'm too that.

 

I realize that this is normal and expected. If there was no affair, then this would likely be a non-issue for me. However, the affair does have an impact on my mindset. If we hit a dry spell I can't help but think "you weren't TOO MARRIED to have sex with OM". When the emotions were raw after D-day the internal voice was more of "maybe I should call OM and ask him how to get in your pants".

 

I understand that it is not fair to her, but it is the reality of the situation. Now it's not so much of an issue, but the thoughts are still there as a BH. It's a natural consequence of my wife choosing to screw another man.

 

For men, I think this is a common response/trigger. So, yeah, I can relate to your husband.

 

 

I can relate to this as well. My WH was sexting and sending pics and although he said the sex was terrible on his part I just don't believe it. He has never done this with me and although I have tried encouraging this since DDay I notice there is still no interest.

 

There were issues in our bedroom as well in the past as I was always ready to go and he always had an excuse or started some kind of fight where he'd wind up sleeping in another room. I too felt rejected and when this A came to light I had to feel some kind of way about our own sexual situation.

 

Right now if I wanted to have sex he will not say no, however at times I do feel it's done more out of duty than desire. Lately I stopped initiating sex to see where it goes and test his desires.

 

Other than that things are stable and the relationship is good but we need to work on the passion. I know I have to work on it as the A is always in the back of my mind especially during intimacy which at times makes it difficult.

[road]

I can relate to this as well. My WH was sexting and sending pics and although he said the sex was terrible on his part I just don't believe it. He has never done this with me and although I have tried encouraging this since DDay I notice there is still no interest.

 

There were issues in our bedroom as well in the past as I was always ready to go and he always had an excuse or started some kind of fight where he'd wind up sleeping in another room. I too felt rejected and when this A came to light I had to feel some kind of way about our own sexual situation.

 

Right now if I wanted to have sex he will not say no, however at times I do feel it's done more out of duty than desire. Lately I stopped initiating sex to see where it goes and test his desires.

 

Other than that things are stable and the relationship is good but we need to work on the passion. I know I have to work on it as the A is always in the back of my mind especially during intimacy which at times makes it difficult.

 

 

There has to be a reason why your WH will not have sex with you. He does not find you attractive, he feels guilt, romantic feelings need to be restored. IC and MC is needed her. Can not afford that then get these books by Dr Harley Surviving An Affair, His Needs Her Needs, Fall In Love Stay In Love.

[compulsivedancer]

I didn't ask if you thought it was best that you told him.

 

So I'll ask again, how does that make you feel knowing your husband knows you enjoyed sex with OM and that you don't regret it happened?

 

Ah, I guess I misunderstood. First off, I DO regret that it happened. On DDay 8 1/2 months ago I didn't regret it. That doesn't erase the fact that I enjoyed it.

 

It's weird. One of the odd things is that the memory of the sex and actual memories of the OM have faded. What I still remember is the memories of how I FELT about these things. It's like I've forgotten the times I got high, but I still remember the feeling of the high itself.

 

H has asked me multiple times whether the sex we have now is better than the sex I had with OM. Btw, yes, it definitely is. I feel like now we are experiencing sex the way it is meant to be experienced between a married couple.

 

I haven't really answered the question, and the answer is, I guess: I don't know how I really feel about it. Like everything else, it's complicated. As long as I enjoy sex with H, he can write off my enjoyment with OM.

 

He explains them primarily as the excitement of the A. I imagine that is a large part of it, and it's impossible to know whether I would've enjoyed it if you could take that aspect away. But really, why would a WS keep going back (in the A) if she didn't enjoy the sex?

 

I do worry, though, that if we ever go through a slump, like the one that dichotomy describes, that it will be exactly as Dichotomy describes.

[LBlanc]

...

 

Three individuals.

 

BH and the OM are individuals and will do the same acts differently even when they are doing it with the same woman/WW.

 

Think of it as an orchestra. WW is the conductor. BH and OM are different. WW can lead each musician through the same song the same way. Though the song will sound different because every musician does not sound the same.

 

...

 

ahh... not sure about the analogy there considering that in an ensemble piece musicians usually follow precisely the notes on a sheet...

 

(in context to the WWs' posts) i imagine it would be more apt to say that sex with the BS as compared to the AP would be like driving a honda civic as compared to a Porsche. Though both cars pretty much function the same way, (i.e. to get you from point A to point B), I bet the Honda would make less exciting ride than a Porsche. :lmao:

 

(ahem... no offense to all the BS of course )

Edited October 11, 2013 by LBlanc
clarity

[Cali408]

Interesting thread....

 

As Jlola posted about the Art of Seduction, affairs lead to taboo acts. Here's my take.

In an affair, the highs are so high and the time is so short. You feel like, I can have intercourse with my wife, but she won't do, A, B, C. With the Affair Partner, like doing more drugs, you try to get higher than before.

 

You're much more open. I did things with my AP that my wife would never do and my wife is not a prude. She's a open a little. But, won't do anal, won't role play, won't talk dirty or do the light dom/sub thing. It just doesn't turn her on. But does other things.

 

AP was all for it, was more than willing to explore the possibility of a 3some, etc.

 

My wife didn't want to know the details. Praise heaven. Don't ask questions you don't want answers to.

 

And yes, i was completely disrespectful toward my wife.

[Compulsive Musician]

Road, just for the record, AutumnMoon brought up rough oral, and Coolit brought up threesomes. Not CD. lol

 

Multiple stories are meshing (understandably).

[road]

It's weird. One of the odd things is that the memory of the sex and actual memories of the OM have faded. What I still remember is the memories of how I FELT about these things. It's like I've forgotten the times I got high, but I still remember the feeling of the high itself.

 

 

 

This high is the addiction that affairs have.

 

This is why the WW and the AP must have NC forever. The sight of the OM is enough to stir the brain chemistry in the WS to restart the addiction and the need to satisfy the cravings and restart the affair.

[road]

Road, just for the record, AutumnMoon brought up rough oral, and Coolit brought up threesomes. Not CD. lol

 

Multiple stories are meshing (understandably).

 

 

Sorry for the confusion. Too many stories here.

[compulsivedancer]

CD I may have missed it, but did you ask H to treat you like a whore? Maybe you did, but the last paragraph, i can only interpret as before he wanted a princess in bed, and now he sees you as this "whore" and thus sex is better now? Yes, and yes (well, sorta. It's more balanced now). I asked repeatedly, but not with those words. However, one thing I've learned since the A is that sometimes I think I'm shouting and all he hears is me whispering, not for lack of listening, but because I'm not communicating as well as I think I am.

 

If so, only thing that has changed sexually is him in this context. Hmmm, and there is now "hold ups" with certain sex acts? I don't buy the bull sh** about doing certain things that are now off limits.

 

Put it this way, instead of comparing with OM, open his book of fantasies and read every chapter.

 

Good point. I have talked about our sexual issues mostly in regard to H, because that tends to be my perspective.

 

From his perspective, even though I am a very outgoing person, I was very shy in bed. I didn't do a whole lot, didn't ask for a whole lot, didn't initiate things.

 

From my perspective, that is completely true. My upbringing was very conservative and sex was pretty dirty. It took someone like OM to bring that side of me out because I wasn't capable of bringing it out on my own. H was, frankly, too nice to me to locate that side of my personality in bed.

 

One of the things that most frustrates H is that he saw a completely different side of me when he read my transcripts with OM. He asked me why I never shared that with him. I told him that I didn't even know it existed.

 

Now, H believes that I was much nastier with OM than with him, much more aggressive, etc. This isn't really true, except in our text conversations. I expressed a lot of fantasies in conversation with OM, but in person, I was almost as shy with him as I am with H. He realizes this, but has to be reminded of it.

 

Since DDay, I have been a lot more experimental with H and have tried to communicate my wants and needs a lot better. I am still not as aggressive as he'd like me to be, but I think he'd be sad if he couldn't make me blush every now and then when we talk about sex.

[compulsivedancer]

Well I can't find it and don't remember what thread you posted it in, but it was something to the effect of not being sorry it happened.

 

Read back through the thread. It's something I said to H on DDay. Someone asked me about it because he included it in his story of DDay.

[compulsivedancer]

Not sure who said it, but someone was worried because H's account and my account of his wishes with anal sex don't match. This is no cause for alarm; we just had the conversation a couple of days ago.

 

This is twofold:

 

1) H tends to overstate these things when we first talk. I get all upset and talk to LS about it, then the next time we talk about it, he tells me that he overreacted/overstated/was a bit unreasonable, etc and clarifies his actual wants. (we hadn't gotten there IRL yet.)

 

What he really wants is exactly what road suggested toward the beginning of this post and also what he said in his thread. He wants the option open to him should he want it, but it's doubtful that he'll really make much use of it (for those of you freaking out about the open relationship/RA thing, this is more or less what he wants with that, too - and there's a good chance we'll resolve this with a threesome(s) at some point in the future, vs. a stepping outside thing; at least, that's what I'm going to try to convince him of... . Time will tell.)

 

2) I overstated a tiny bit for dramatic effect. I do that sometimes. I'm a writer and rhetoric is kind of important for me. The ...forever... thing is mostly pointing out the ludicrous nature of expecting something in perpetuity because it happened a few times with OM. Yes, I would expect to be taken to the Bahamas. Maybe even more than once. But I would NOT expect him to fly me to the Bahamas whenever I wish for the rest of my life (see above for analogy).

 

I mostly figured that he wanted what I stated in (1), but since he actually expressed it as "whenever I want it," that's how I stated it. Remember the intended purpose of this thread, even if we got a little sidetracked: To point out to BHs that it's not necessarily about them or the affair when their WW doesn't want sex.

 

Sidenote: If I had realized H was going to post on LS, I probably wouldn't've had a post going at the same time. That was dumb luck (disluck), since my post frequency had really decreased and I haven't been posting threads here all that often lately. Although I think it worked out nicely - since I don't intend to post on his thread, it gave me a spot to answer some questions.

[troubadour]

It bothered me. Made things sem unfinished. But in the two threesome cases he was just too drunk and didn't even finish with his wife after I left. In the camping instance which was the last it really bothered me. My H thinks he was to nervous his W or my H was gonna walk out the door and catch us.

 

 

So, you had sex only three times with your bouncer loverboy? My dear God.... risking it all for three drunk, lousy bangs?

[road]

Not sure who said it, but someone was worried because H's account and my account of his wishes with anal sex don't match. This is no cause for alarm; we just had the conversation a couple of days ago.

 

This is twofold:

 

1) H tends to overstate these things when we first talk. I get all upset and talk to LS about it, then the next time we talk about it, he tells me that he overreacted/overstated/was a bit unreasonable, etc and clarifies his actual wants. (we hadn't gotten there IRL yet.)

 

What he really wants is exactly what road suggested toward the beginning of this post and also what he said in his thread. He wants the option open to him should he want it, but it's doubtful that he'll really make much use of it (for those of you freaking out about the open relationship/RA thing, this is more or less what he wants with that, too - and there's a good chance we'll resolve this with a threesome(s) at some point in the future, vs. a stepping outside thing; at least, that's what I'm going to try to convince him of... . Time will tell.)

 

2) I overstated a tiny bit for dramatic effect. I do that sometimes. I'm a writer and rhetoric is kind of important for me. The ...forever... thing is mostly pointing out the ludicrous nature of expecting something in perpetuity because it happened a few times with OM. Yes, I would expect to be taken to the Bahamas. Maybe even more than once. But I would NOT expect him to fly me to the Bahamas whenever I wish for the rest of my life (see above for analogy).

 

I mostly figured that he wanted what I stated in (1), but since he actually expressed it as "whenever I want it," that's how I stated it. Remember the intended purpose of this thread, even if we got a little sidetracked: To point out to BHs that it's not necessarily about them or the affair when their WW doesn't want sex.

 

Sidenote: If I had realized H was going to post on LS, I probably wouldn't've had a post going at the same time. That was dumb luck (disluck), since my post frequency had really decreased and I haven't been posting threads here all that often lately. Although I think it worked out nicely - since I don't intend to post on his thread, it gave me a spot to answer some questions.

 

 

I have seen to many problems from allowing RA's. Banging an OW will not get a BH's WW unbanged by the OM.

 

I have seen to many marriages fall apart because of threesomes.

 

Your marriage fell apart because of threesomes.

 

And what are you talking about now?

 

Having a threesome.

 

Either you are a troll, faking you and CM, and or you have no ability to learn. No matter how this sliced it still will always look bad.

[atreides]

He used to be a bouncer. Now he is just an ageing nearly 40 unemplyed EI fraud.

 

But, I didn't know it was going to be just 3 times. It was entirely about the anticipation. And flirting. And dirty talk.

 

As with many things, anticipation is some times far better than the delivery

[miguelcervantes]

Just read your BH's thread and I must now say that I cannot even bear to read any more of your rants. Disgraceful and so adios.

[unicorn farts]

I have seen to many problems from allowing RA's. Banging an OW will not get a BH's WW unbanged by the OM.

 

I have seen to many marriages fall apart because of threesomes.

 

Your marriage fell apart because of threesomes.

 

And what are you talking about now?

 

Having a threesome.

 

Either you are a troll, faking you and CM, and or you have no ability to learn. No matter how this sliced it still will always look bad.

 

Yeah I also think this is an absolutely terrible idea. People that make open/semi-open marriages work do it from a place of mutual trust and love, not because one spouse needs to get even with the other. Sounds like you're laying the foundations for an even uglier blowup a year or so down the road.

[compulsivedancer]

Either you are a troll, faking you and CM, and or you have no ability to learn. No matter how this sliced it still will always look bad.

 

I don't know what I'd want to fake CM. It doesn't really help me here at all, especially since he added a lot of details that I had not divulged.

 

We'll cross that bridge if we ever come to it. For now, the focus is getting us back on our feet.

 

Atreides, I took your advice about erotic fantasies and it was very successful.

[Journee]

Yeah I also think this is an absolutely terrible idea. People that make open/semi-open marriages work do it from a place of mutual trust and love, not because one spouse needs to get even with the other. Sounds like you're laying the foundations for an even uglier blowup a year or so down the road.

 

This is what I was trying to get at in an earlier post of mine.

 

I just hope you guys don't end up putting the final nail in the coffin with leaving the relationship open to possibilities. If cheating isn't a loving action then surely getting even isn't either.

 

I know I have kicked around theses thoughts too but in reality, I don't want my WH in a state because he is anticipating my fall from grace. Unless I intend to maintain my M as a way to punish him. It won't make things even or level. It will cause you lots of pain. A world of hurt , as my dad would say.

 

Is this a condition of your reconciliation?

[atreides]

I don't know what I'd want to fake CM. It doesn't really help me here at all, especially since he added a lot of details that I had not divulged.

 

We'll cross that bridge if we ever come to it. For now, the focus is getting us back on our feet.

 

Atreides, I took your advice about erotic fantasies and it was very successful.

 

Glad to hear it

[compulsivedancer]

Just read your BH's thread and I must now say that I cannot even bear to read any more of your rants. Disgraceful and so adios.

 

I'm not usually a ranter. Sure you have the right person?

 

That is, I can rant with the best of us, but that's not usually how I approach Loveshack.

[compulsivedancer]

If we get back on track with the premise of the thread:

 

 

 

Its simple. OW was excited to do things with OM. The husband doesn't get the same courtesy and since H isn't new and exciting, WW doesn't get excited to do the things with H she did with OM. H plays 2nd fiddle even after the affair.

 

So WW was excited by OM enough to try new things. And now that she got to have her fun and exploration, H doesn't get the same courtesy.

 

Actually, I'm very glad to be able to share that side of me with H. That's what i always wanted AND what he always wanted. We just weren't communicating it well enough to each other.

 

It's too bad that other fWWs are not glad to. In the specific case of anal, I simply am not very into it. If he wants it occasionally, I'd be willing to, but if he decides it's his new favorite thing, I simply won't be able to. I doubt that'll be the case.

 

I do hope, however, that some time when I'm stressed or depressed in the future and not interested in sex temporarily, that it won't suddenly become: "But you were always ready for OM."

 

Well, yes, and we go through substantial periods of time when I'm always ready for H. If OM and I had continued, sooner or later the sparkle would've worn off and there would've been those moments/time periods with him too. It's that point that Spark always emphasizes: As are not like real life, especially not in those early stages.

[compulsivedancer]

That's not what you were conveying in your very first post.

 

Also with the following statement:

 

 

 

You and OM got to have all the fun and exploration. H won't get that if you decide that OM was the last person to do certain things with. Hence the topic of this thread.

 

Since DDay, H and I have done a lot of exploration, and we've far surpassed anything OM and I did. The point I was trying to make with my original post (before CM put his thread up), was that it's not necessarily the WW trying to deny the BS something. In my case, expecting anal sex on demand because I did it three times (2 1/2) with OM is simply to much, since it's not an act I'm fond of.

 

In Dichotomy's case, I was trying to tell him that perhaps his wife's response had nothing to do with the A.

 

Hopefully, if H and I go through a dry spell 5 years from now because I'm tired from chasing kids and working full time, he won't say to me: "why aren't you having sex with me the way you did with OM?"

 

Hopefully by then the A will be irrelevant to our future sex life. I can't spend the rest of our marriage trying to live up to the 6 months I spent sleeping with OM (maybe 15 times having sex, total). It sounds exhausting, and frankly, unreasonable.

 

I am very glad to have the passion back with H, but it may still turn out to be HB. I'm not sure if it'll last forever at this level. Life has a way of getting in the way. Health problems, work, kids, etc.