Explain my Ex's Behavior...just want to understand

[GoBroncs1983]

The result is that BPDers are so consciously unaware of their mistakes and flaws that they usually don't feel a need to lie about it.

 

My ex claimed to never lie to me, and it seems strange, but I believe she was honest with me most of the time. I think the shame of being caught in a lie was about the most terrible thing she could have faced. But she certainly would hide things from me. Such as the guy she dated last fall - she didn't tell me about him, but when I found out and asked her, she admitted she was seeing someone. Then she acted flabbergasted that I would be upset. After all, I could date people, too! Why was I upset? Then, a week later, I DID go on a date with a girl, and my ex was hysterically upset, and said we couldn't talk anymore. I had hurt her by dating someone else - yet again, it was MY fault.

 

If she is hiding something from me and I ask her about it, she avoids answering, until I badger her so much that she finally tells me - like a CHILD would do! She will say "I'm not going to outline what I did last night - just know I'm terrible and you deserve better" or some variation. It usually takes several instances of me badgering her before she will finally admit what she did. She always says she kept the info from me because she knew I would get upset - again, like how a CHILD doesn't want to face the wrath (and consequences) of their actions.

 

Months later, after we had gotten back together, she bluntly stated dating the other guy was a mistake, and she was sorry for hurting me. She apologized. She said she had done wrong. I felt like maybe she had turned a corner, but then she did it again with this new Other Guy this summer. A never ending, repeating cycle. But with this last round, she acted like someone who had disappointed the most important person in their life yet again, and thus, couldn't face me anymore. It was like her shame was on full display. But instead of trying to get better, she just said she was a terrible person, and cast me away.

 

The result is that they will talk, talk, talk about their mistakes and shortcomings but will do nothing to remedy them.

 

This fits my ex to a T. She will talk about wanting to work on herself and get better, but really, she won't, and doesn't want to. She told me last week we need time apart so she can "work on herself." I guess she means live without seeing me and feeling the shame of how she has treated me. But she still isn't doing anything to fix herself. She has said numerous times that "the women in (her) family always screw up relationships" - as if it's an excuse. She's doomed to fail, because her mother and cousins do the same thing to men. No, you don't have to follow their lead. She talks terribly about her mother, but she is almost exactly like her, albeit at a much less manic tone. But she WILL be her mother in about 10 years, and that's sad.

 

And Downtown, remember how you said my daughter would be affected by seeing my ex as an example of what an adult relationship could be? Well, my ex has a 14 year old sister who is seeing both her older sister AND her mother exhibit this awful behavior. SHE is the one person I feel sorry for the most. It's like a vicious cycle of abuse, except emotionally.

[GoBroncs1983]

It has been a bit, so I thought I should come back here and give one more update on my situation.

 

I'll preface all of this by saying the relationship is over, I ended it, and it's not going to be resurrected.

 

About a week after my last post here, she contacted me. This was a first, as usually I would break NC first. She says she misses me. However, she very slowly lets it trickle out that she has been seeing Other Guy #2 and slept with him. At this point, she’s telling me on the phone, and is sobbing hysterically, full of guilt and remorse. She says she doesn’t know how she is once again in this position; shutting me out while seeing a guy she wants nothing to do with. Unlike the last time this happened, she isn’t showing this guy off, and it seems more like a mistake that she immediately regrets.

 

She’s strangely full of remorse, guilt, and HONESTY about her behavior. Usually, she will acknowledge that she is doing something wrong, but does nothing to correct her behavior. This time, she speaks openly about wanting to change. I run down a list of all of her terrible behaviors, being careful not to mention BPD or to say she has any kind of emotional/mental issue, although I secretly think that, of course. She agrees and expounds on everything I’m saying:

 

“I need to learn to set boundaries – I have issues remaining platonic with men”

“I’m not mature enough to handle personal relationships”

“I want to earn your trust back”

 

She deeply regrets everything she has done to me, and immediately cuts it off with Other Guy – they will still work together, but that’s it. There’s a bit of a moment where she is very upset about how she treated HIM – she admits she used him to fill an emotional need and feels terrible about it. She’s so convincing about wanting to change – moment of clarity? – that I agree that we can work on our relationship.

 

She goes overboard with the love bombing – speaking of marriage, asking me what we will name our kids, tells me we can move away together. It’s all so absurd (within days of the above) that I tell her to back off with all of that talk – there’s too much to work on. She’s in full apology mode. We cautiously move forward for about a month.

 

She then tells me that as a graduation from college present, her family is paying for a vacation for her and I to New York City. I’m shocked and graciously accept. Remember when she loved NYC so much she wanted to move there? Yeah, big deal, this trip. We go (only a few days before Christmas) and it’s an amazing time, one of the highlights of my life personally, and for our relationship.

 

I bet you can guess what happened next.

 

We come home, and first of all, she gets sick. Not surprising given germy NYC, but it lingers for a couple of weeks, and boy do I hear about it. She finally goes to a doctor, but it continues. This, coupled with being home and NOT in NYC and her no longer being in college to lean on (the REAL world) puts her in a bad mood. She is snippy and treats me poorly. She blames it on being sick, but I notice when we hang out with others, she’s pleasant and friendly to them. Given that I still consider her in the doghouse from the above (and everything else), I have very low tolerance for her behavior, and one night, we get into a shouting match in my car after a movie out where she argues with me over something minor (shocking). I drive away from her apartment in anger.

 

I bet you can guess what happened next.

 

She becomes very distant and barely talks to me. I leave her alone for a WEEK, no contact. When I attempt to talk to her, she is the same way. She says she is numb, and depressed. She claims her job is overwhelming and decides, once again, that she wants to move to New York as soon as possible, saying it was the last time she was happy. All of those promises from October melt away as she once again says she can’t be the woman I need (since I don’t want to live there), that she wants to be selfish, and achieve her life goals before a relationship. And as usual, the only change she is making is to eliminate me.

 

I can poke a thousand holes in her “life plan” and really, she isn’t going to move away. She is just pushing me away. I don’t know which BPD fear it is, but one week we are in New York and her family is shocked that we didn’t return engaged to be married, and the next week she’s saying we can’t be together because she is going to move away. It’s just an easy excuse – she would break up with me for not having adequate tire pressure on my car if she had to push me away and had nothing else.

 

That’s when it hits me. After ALL of it, after ALL of the words I’ve posted here, it finally hits me – this will never stop happening. I can expect that every few months, either through a BPD fear, her stress and anxiety, or a combination of the two, that she will push me away, and maybe (or maybe not) pull me back after a period of time. I’m living every day waiting for her to turn. Walking on eggshells.

 

Not anymore. There is no goodbye chat, no declaration that the relationship is over, I simply block her phone number and block her on all social media. It has been three weeks, and I haven’t heard from her in any other way, so I guess she got the hint.

 

I thought about sending her a lengthy e-mail explaining WHY I’m cutting her off, but you know what? She knows. And that is what has helped me through this. The first few breakups, I felt like it was all my fault. Then I came here and my mind was opened to the possibility of BPD, and it helped me the last few (it’s sad I have to say “few”) breakups. She isn’t rejecting me, and she didn’t choose those other guys over me – she can’t handle emotional relationships, and uses men and discards them. She carries a tremendous amount of pain, and I feel sorry for her.

 

I’ve said it before, but I need to say it one more time – it’s horrifically strange how much her mother behaves the same way. She (mom) has broken up with her boyfriend (and reconciled) over 30 times since I’ve known my exGF. She also posts on Facebook (her entire profile is public, we aren’t friends) things such as “looking at jobs in Florida! Looking to move next summer!” – no she isn’t. She just talks and talks and talks, just like my ex does. And they are similar in the aspect that they just think their dreams will come true, without any effort. My ex talked (and up until the end she did) about moving away, like it was just going to happen. She isn’t working somewhere that can lead to that, or trying to gain experience. She is just entitled to it. She told me at the end that she is going to find a $75,000+ job in NYC within a year and move. Yeah, right. She can’t focus on the present.

 

I’m now moving on, and focusing on MY future. My daughter is now 10, and getting to the age where she will have more influence over what happens to her. I can’t wait to see her grow. I was recently accepted into a prestigious leadership program at my work (only two employees a year are chosen) and begin work on my Master’s degree in the fall. Then, I plan to move to Seattle, only when I’m professionally ready, probably in 2-3 years. I bet I will end up better off than my ex will, as I imagine her ending up exactly like her mother, talking and talking and talking about how she is going to achieve her goals, but doing almost nothing to try and get there.

 

Thank all of you, Downtown, STH, and others who tried to knock some sense into me over the last year and a half. I hope this thread can be a good reference for others who are going through something similar with their partners, as so many at this site have for me. If any of you have any comments about this, please let me know. I’m still struggling a bit with it all ending, but I know it’s for the best.

 

Thank you.

[Downtown]

After ALL of it, after ALL of the words I’ve posted here, it finally hits me – this will never stop happening.... that she will push me away.... I’m now moving on, and focusing on MY future.

GB, thanks for returning to give us an update on how you and your daughter are doing! I am so pleased to hear that you managed to break free from that toxic relationship with your exGF. As I said last October, you have good reason to be proud of your accomplishments. You've been establishing stronger personal boundaries and, most important, you've been enforcing them. For excessive caregivers like us, that is very hard to do. The notion of walking away from a sick loved one is anathema to us -- even when that is exactly what we should do. I'm envious because it took you only a year and a half to do what took me 15 years.

 

I hope this thread can be a good reference for others who are going through something similar with their partners, as so many at this site have for me.

I agree, GB. By sharing your experiences, you've helped numerous other LoveShack members and lurkers. Indeed, your story has already attracted nearly 3,000 views.

 

I’m still struggling a bit with it all ending, but I know it’s for the best.

At your young age, there is nothing wrong with moving on and focusing your time and energy on raising your daughter and building a relationship with another woman. Perhaps at some time in the future, after things have settled down in your life, you will again have time to return to this forum to help others by sharing your life experiences and knowledge. In any event, GB, I wish the very best for you and your daughter.

[SoThatHappened]

The clarity with which you wrote that post spoke volumes to me, GB.

 

You've hit the point (post breakups and post hoping) where it feels like your decision is made and there's no going back. It's also a good decision.

 

It's been over 8 months for me post-breakup with a woman who (as you know) had textbook BPD traits. I'm so grateful I'm not with her anymore. It took me the good part of 6 or 7 months to truly reach that point. You will get there as well.

 

I sh** you not, you will hardly think about your ex in due time. I post less here, I have a better outlook, and I'm a different person. All because of NC and truly realizing that it's over.

 

That's the tough part. When it truly hits you that it's over, never to return again, it hurts. Just have to push past it. Darkest before the dawn analogy.

 

Thanks for coming back to post an update. You're intelligent, and obviously strong if you've made it to 10 years being a single father.

 

Just think... in about 4 years your daughter is going to be giving you the biggest headaches instead of your exGF!

Edited February 13, 2015 by SoThatHappened

[GoBroncs1983]

Thank you both!

 

This thread has been a godsend for me. When I came here, I was hesitant about posting. It felt like a weak thing to do. It obviously wasn't, and I would have never thought about BPD had it not been brought up here. I don't know what I was expecting to hear by posting my story, but hearing about an emotional disorder that she exhibits MANY strong traits of, well, it put it into perspective.

 

One think I have learned to do (and I'm still coming to grips with it) is that it wasn't about me. She didn't break up with me because of anything I did or didn't do. Or anything I COULD HAVE DONE. It was always going to keep happening. The last few breakups, where she gave such a preposterous reason of "I'm eventually moving away without you so we need to break up now" showed that she felt either engulfed, or feared abandonment.

 

I mean, hell, one week we are walking through Central Park in Manhattan talking about where we should have our wedding, and then TWO WEEKS later, she tells me she is trying to not talk to me because it's best if she doesn't care about me anymore. THAT ISN'T NORMAL. And it doesn't matter if 500 different psychiatrists diagnose her with BPD or not......THAT ISN'T NORMAL.

 

Hooking up with other guys (losers, as you said STH, so she could play victim without being kept honest), constantly looking to the distant future instead of the present (not being mindful, is that right?), constant push and pull, triangulation, abandoning me whenever we have a major fight, suddenly declaring it's not going to work after a great vacation......doing it FIVE OTHER TIMES. Not normal.

 

And that's what I hold onto. She doesn't do this or go to another guy because I'm not good enough. She goes away because her fragile ego projects her pain onto everyone else but herself. She doesn't think the other guys are better than me, and most importantly, she isn't suddenly happier and better off without me, either. It's not like her next boyfriend will become her husband. And she isn't moving to New York, and even if she did, give it six months, just like everything else in her life, she would end up hating it.

 

She has lived a life of pain, emptiness, self hate, and regret. I see her mother and imagine my ex being the same way in 15 years. And that's definitely someone I wouldn't be with for a million dollars.

Edited February 13, 2015 by GoBroncs1983

[ally2015]

I am in a VERY similar situation! Would love to chat to you GoBroncs1983, Sothathappened or Xunknown. It is driving me insane!

Edited February 13, 2015 by ally2015

[Invictus01]

Hey, dude, don't take it this the wrong way, but I just wanted to tell you thanks. Thanks for coming here and sharing your story. I'm sorry you have been going through this $hit for years now but your story is a good learning manual for BPD newbies like me. I just went through an interesting experience myself that was completely surreal and ended completely surreal. In fact, so surreal, I had to look it up to make sure I didn't lose my mind all the sudden. That's how I found this site and many others and that's where I found about BPD and what happened to me. And stories like yours is pretty much what keeps me from reaching out back to her. It scares the $hit out of me when I think of the possibility of going through multiple rounds of this kind of craziness, once was mind bending enough.

 

I am glad you have finally seen the light. From everything I have read, it is really a lost cause trying to work it out with somebody who got this disorder. It really is like trying to reason and hold on to a 5 year old who never grows up. That's why most parents are perpetually exhausted but at least they know that it actually is a 5 year old that they are dealing with and eventually this will go away. With BPDs, it never does.

 

Good luck man. It is a tough to walk away from what seemed like a picture perfect love story but just about everybody who has ever dealt with something like this have only one suggestion - RUN.

Edited February 13, 2015 by Invictus01

[GoBroncs1983]

I really appreciate that. Hearing about similar experiences is what helped me, along with learning about BPD. What can we discuss? I'm sorry, I don't know how LoveShack works. Is there private messaging? Do you all have individual threads? Do you have questions you can post in this thread? I will share any experiences I've had in addition to the billion words I've already written. Downtown has been a tremendous help as well, he can offer a lot, too.

 

Fire away! Let me know what I can do.

[ally2015]

I really appreciate that. Hearing about similar experiences is what helped me, along with learning about BPD. What can we discuss? I'm sorry, I don't know how LoveShack works. Is there private messaging? Do you all have individual threads? Do you have questions you can post in this thread? I will share any experiences I've had in addition to the billion words I've already written. Downtown has been a tremendous help as well, he can offer a lot, too.

 

Fire away! Let me know what I can do.

 

I am not sure how loveshack works either... Id love to private message if that is an option as I would love to hear your thoughts and advice... This is my post on this site... there is more to it but this is just an overview.. would love any feedback as i am literally left with my daughter and no answers...

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/separation-divorce/515225-left-limbo-cheating-drugs-depression-affair-fog

[GoBroncs1983]

Ally, I replied in your thread. Good luck to you and your child.

[GoBroncs1983]

I thought I would share a victory I just had over this situation.

 

Yesterday was my Ex's birthday. When we reconciled (for the seventh time) in October, I bought tickets to a show in early March as a very early birthday present. That still didn't shop her from pushing me away last month, and all of those plans went down the toilet.

 

But a part of me still wanted to reach out to her on her birthday. At one point, I had the idea to send her flowers in a "I know it's your birthday and I'm thinking of you" kind of way. I mean, as much as she has pushed me away (again), who wouldn't be flattered by something like that?

 

But truly, I've found that while I miss talking to her and having someone to share my life with so closely, I don't miss essentially everything else about her. Going to her apartment, hanging out with her, sex, it all felt like a chore, like an assignment. An assignment to stimulate her emotionally. To occupy her time. Other than the closeness (and yes, the sex was usually good) I didn't look forward to seeing her. Yet, I still wanted to reach out, to have some kind of dopamine rush from conversation with her.

 

I came REALLY close to texting her yesterday. But I didn't.

 

I listed the tickets to the show on Stubhub, and wouldn't you know it, as I arrived home on Monday night, I got the e-mail that they sold, and I needed to ship them within one business day.

 

I mailed the tickets the next day - her birthday. It was fitting that the gift I bought her before she pushed me away left my hands for more than the face value I paid for them. On her birthday, I gave a gift to myself.

 

I still struggle with the WHY. I know she exhibits strong BPD traits, but it still mystifies me where that boils up from. I suppose if I could live inside her brain for five minutes, it would be alarming. I guess the fact that no one else sees this behavior from her, that everyone else thinks she is funny and a blast to hang out with, really irks me. But I should know better than to think that she is having the time of her life without me, either. When I tell mutual friends that she has broken up with me seven times, their jaws drop.

 

Anyway, it's still a process for me, but I'm quite proud that I did a complete 180 on her birthday in every possible way.

[Downtown]

I came REALLY close to texting her yesterday. But I didn't.... I'm quite proud that I did a complete 180 on her birthday in every possible way.

Nice. Very NICE! Be proud of yourself, GB, for establishing strong personal boundaries and enforcing them. And, yes, the irony of making a profit on the tickets -- on the very day of her birthday -- is a sweet ending to a toxic relationship.

[GoBroncs1983]

Is it weird for me to say that it felt good simply because I could control an aspect of the relationship/situation? I told her during one of our final conversations that I was going to sell the tickets, and she said "I know you won't sell them and will take someone else." Well guess what, I DID sell them. Sure, there was a part of me that wanted to go alone, or maybe take someone else, but that is what she predicted that I would do. No, I'm just going to sell the tickets, pocket the money, and wash my hands of the situation. No matter the situation, if I had gone, I would have been thinking of her anyway.

 

 

Going through other threads on here, people have been willing to answer questions or provide experiences, so I have a few more lingering questions:

 

1: Can anyone provide feedback or a link to an article concerning triangulation - specifically when a BPDer uses another love interest against their partner? Almost everything I have found concerns a BPDer using family members or children against their partner, not a love triangle with another man/woman.

 

I went through this with my ex three times, and with each of the three other men, when we got back together she viciously devalued/split them, in a "I have no idea why I was interested in him" kind of way. But when she was interested in the guy, it was an intense, temporary infatuation, and each time during the triangulation, she would tell me she wasn't sure about either him or I. And each of the men were losers dependent on others, I wouldn't consider any of them to have "strong" personalities as you have talked about, Downtown. The last guy still lived with his parents, who paid all of his bills. Yet she still was drawn to them, maybe because subconsciously she could tell they just wanted a girlfriend and were easy targets?

 

What causes a BPDer to devalue their primary partner so much and temporarily turn to another man? This was always one of the more perplexing traits my ex exhibited - she would break up with me because she wanted to achieve her own goals, move away, be selfish, blah blah blah, but then she would shack up with another guy who was more in the way of those "goals" than I ever was. She can't be with me because I may not move away with her, but a 22 year old who lives with his parents and has little income is okay? I know it's all her subconscious finding an excuse to push me away, but it looks quite hypocritical when I'm "replaced" with such losers who go against her "goals" even MORE.

 

2: Almost each time she broke up with me, she would repeatedly state that I would quickly find someone else and not care about her. Even during this last push-away phase, she would say "So when are you going to start dating (female)? What about (another female)?" These were girls I was friends with on Facebook whom I would never date, by the way. Her statements had such an accusatory tone as well, like I was going to replace her. All I could think was, "if you don't want to feel the possibility of me dating someone else, don't break up with me!" It felt like she was trying to predict my behavior so if I DID date someone else, she could go "Ah HA! I knew you would date her!" It was like she was constantly trying to find a way to show that I was going to abandon her for someone else. Was this some sort of "test" to keep me from trying anything with anyone else?

 

3: I know "chronic feelings of emptiness" are a BPD trait, but what about refusing to focus on the present, and instead daydreaming about a better future? My ex constantly talked about moving away to another city, that it would improve her life a thousand percent. She (until she did so) talked about how losing weight would improve it as well. Guess what? She did lose weight, and was the same crabby person. Do BPDers struggle with finding comfort and happiness in their current situation? The only time my ex seemed happy with her current life was when we moved in together, and then my daughter spilled a glass of orange juice a week later, and my ex was back to wanting to move away again.

Edited February 28, 2015 by GoBroncs1983

[Downtown]

Is it weird for me to say that it felt good simply because I could control an aspect of the relationship/situation?

No. Sounds like a perfectly good feeling to me -- especially after your coming out of a toxic, out-of-control relationship.

 

Can anyone provide feedback or a link to an article concerning triangulation - specifically when a BPDer uses another love interest against their partner?

GB, I suggest you take a look at Triangulation and Karpman's Drama Triangle.

 

I went through this with my ex three times, and with each of the three other men, when we got back together she viciously devalued/split them.... What causes a BPDer to devalue their primary partner so much and temporarily turn to another man?

As I understand it, GB, there are two primary reasons for this. One is that a BPDer cannot tolerate strong mixed feelings and thus does splitting, thereby simplifying her life by allowing her conscious mind to experience only one strong feeling (e.g., love or hate) at a time.

 

A second reason is that a BPDer's ego is so weak and unstable that, to the extent she has any self image AT ALL, it is the false self image of always being "The Victim." She therefore keeps a death grip on that self image and tries to validate it often. This means her partner is allowed to play only one of two roles, both of which serve to "validate" her false self image.

 

One of these roles, which you played all the time during the infatuation period, was that of "The Rescuer." When you played that role, the clear implication is that she MUST be "The Victim" or you wouldn't be making such a fuss over saving her from something (i.e., from unhappiness). The other role, of course, is that of "The Perpetrator," wherein she blames you for every misfortune to befall her. As long as you are "The Perpetrator," she must be "The Victim" because you are frequently "victimizing" her.

 

As to the BPDer's frequent use of triangulation, that essentially serves two purposes. One is to reduce her great fear of abandonment by having a backup and by making you jealous (thus reducing the chances you will abandon her). Another purpose is to enable her to push you away -- when her engulfment fear is too strong -- without having to be alone. BPDers HATE to be alone because they need someone with a stable personality to give them a sense of direction and to ground them.

 

I know "chronic feelings of emptiness" are a BPD trait, but what about refusing to focus on the present, and instead daydreaming about a better future? My ex constantly talked about moving away to another city, that it would improve her life a thousand percent.

Yes, this frequent escaping into the future or into the past is one of the BPD traits. Specifically, it is a mild form of dissociation, which is one of the defining traits for BPD. BPDers rely on these behaviors so heavily -- to escape the pain of their abandoment or engulfment fears -- that they often may have difficulty remaining "in the room" or "in the present."

 

One result of this escapism is that it is common for a BPDer to not recall something she seemed to be hearing or agreeing to in a recent conversation. Hence, BPDers often seem to be "rewriting history" -- even history that occurred only one day earlier. This is why, in therapies like DBT, one of the first emotional skills that will be taught to a BPDer is "mindfulness," i.e., the ability to remain in the room and in the conversation without escaping into the future or the past. This, at least, is my understanding of it, GB.

[GoBroncs1983]

Downtown, as always, thank you for the prompt reply.

 

Can a BPDer's dissociation also cause them to only hear what they want to hear? I told my ex that I wasn't against moving to NYC, but that it would take considerable planning due to the cost, and that I wasn't leaving my current job (that I am quite happy with) just to move to another city. She wouldn't accept that, however, and routinely said I "didn't want to live in New York." Even recently, when she suggested we move to a downtown apartment in our city, I suggested that we choose somewhere close to (a certain highway) so I could have a quick trip to work. Again, she didn't like that, and would say that I "didn't want to live downtown" and used both it and NYC to push me away, saying we had different goals. I suppose you could label it as immature and selfish, that I wasn't doing EXACTLY what she wanted, but she would rant and rave with SUCH certainty, that I was dumbfounded. I would regularly try to explain to her that I WAS open to those ideas, but she didn't like that I wasn't 100% in with what SHE wanted.

 

I also looked at it as a way of her (subconsciously?) setting us up to fail. She would say "I want to move to NYC in six months when I graduate!" and I would say that it would take a BIT more planning to do something like that, and she would then say we didn't have the same goals, and break up with me. I could usually tell when she was entering a "push away" phase, because she would start talking about her life plans and how SHE was going to achieve them, rather than how WE would spend life together. It was such an uneasy feeling.

 

That was another aspect - whenever she would spout such ridiculous excuses like the above, she would always try to continue the argument (I can remember laying in bed with her for HOURS at night as she wouldn't let it go), and used the phrase "I need you to understand why (whatever her point was)" - as if that was the most important part - that I validated her preposterous reasons by saying I understood - then I had to explain back to her why, and what she meant. Seldom did this happen, because I couldn't go along with her nonsense.

 

I suppose that's why she pushed me away so often - that I didn't validate and agree with her when she said all of those wacky ideas. I'm a realistic person, and I can't live in fairy tale land of dreams like she does. It wasn't my "job" to agree with and soothe her, of course, so I don't feel bad about it. If anything, I feel good NOW, knowing that I stood my ground, most of the time.

 

As for being "mindful" - will it be likely that she will spend most of her life disliking whatever her current situation is? I always chuckled a bit to myself when she would say that moving away would solve her unhappiness. I felt that after a few months - similar to an infatuation period with a new boyfriend - that she would end up hating it. Can a BPDer ever become happy in life, or (without therapy) is he/she doomed to eventually dislike her current situation? This was a key factor in keeping me from seriously considering marriage to her, even when she was love bombing me with the idea. No matter what, kids, moving to different cities, jobs, etc.- she would eventually turn back into Eeyore and want a change, again.

 

I want to make it clear that I don't think she sat there and rubbed her hands together and said "Muahahaha" and purposely pushed me away. Each time, especially the last few, she was EXTREMELY remorseful, said it was going to be the biggest mistake of her life, and showed (in my opinion) real guilt (crying, sadness) that we "couldn't" be together. It boggled my mind why she would put herself, me, and us through it all.

[Downtown]

Can a BPDer's dissociation also cause them to only hear what they want to hear? ...She would rant and rave with SUCH certainty, that I was dumbfounded.

Yes, GB, they tend to hear what they want to hear -- and remember things the way they want to remember it. But this is done subconsciously because the BPDer's subconscious is working 24/7 to protect her fragile ego from seeing too much of reality. It accomplishes that largely by projecting her hurt feelings and painful thoughts onto her spouse. Because that projection occurs entirely at the subconscious level, her conscious mind truly believes the outrageous allegations coming out of her mouth.

 

In this way, a BPDer's intense feelings constitute "facts" to her and she becomes convinced they accurately reflect reality and MUST be true -- otherwise she wouldn't be feeling them so intensely. My BPDer exW, for example, was convinced for years that I was fabricating a new lie nearly every week. Never mind that she never was able to prove I had lied about anything.

 

It wasn't my "job" to agree with and soothe her, of course, so I don't feel bad about it. If anything, I feel good NOW, knowing that I stood my ground, most of the time.

You did well. Although it generally is helpful to validate a BPDer's feelings (i.e., acknowledge that you know she is struggling with a feeling), it is good that you stopped feeling a need to soothe her. She is responsible for doing her own self soothing and, if you frequently jump in to do it for her, she never has the opportunities to learn how to do it -- a skill that the rest of us learned in childhood. It therefore is important -- for her own welfare -- that a BPDer be allowed to suffer the logical consequences of her own bad choices and destructive behavior. Otherwise, she has no incentive to learn how to manage her own issues.

 

As for being "mindful" - will it be likely that she will spend most of her life disliking whatever her current situation is?

Yes, that has been my experience. It took me 15 years to realize that, if you want to be married to a happy wife, you have to marry one who is ALREADY happy the day you meet her. Generally, unless the person is starving, it is an impossible task to make an unhappy adult become happy. Happiness is essentially an inside job. Adults therefore have to take responsibility for their own happiness.

 

I always chuckled a bit to myself when she would say that moving away would solve her unhappiness. I felt that after a few months - similar to an infatuation period with a new boyfriend - that she would end up hating it.

Yes, you can make a BPDer happier for a short time. I did have the modest ability to make my exW happy for a few days or -- if I spent thousands of dollars on a gift -- for a week or two. Then, as it is with other BPDers, we were always back to "what have you done for me lately?"

 

As we discussed before, it is impossible to build up a store of good will with BPDers that you can later draw on during the hard times. That is, BPDers have no lasting sense of appreciation and, because they do frequent splitting, they don't even have access to their loving feelings much of the time. This is why a BPDer can flip, in ten seconds, from adoring you to hating you. Her reality, then, is whatever intense feelings she is feeling AT THAT MOMENT IN TIME. Of course, this is exactly the way that very young children behave.

[GoBroncs1983]

They tend to hear what they want to hear -- and remember things the way they want to remember it.

 

In October, when we got back together for the seventh time, she had a moment of clarity and mapped out OUR lives for the next few years, which culminated in us moving to Seattle, getting married, and having children. She even had the NAMES of our children picked out. Then, we came back from NYC, and all of that went away. And she said her plan was to ALWAYS move alone to NYC first, then EVENTUALLY she would PROBABLY want to move to Seattle with me. Hell, she's like a puppy going to whoever has the toy at that exact moment! There always had to be a problem, an obstacle, to keep us from having a smooth sailing relationship. That's just ONE example.

 

Although it generally is helpful to validate a BPDer's feelings, it is good that you stopped feeling a need to soothe her.

 

I think I validated her quite often when her feelings were legitimate (I DID care about her), but when you are hearing, say, the 45th new complaint her about life THAT DAY alone (and 43 of those complaints are her projecting this false feeling of misery a normal person wouldn't have), it became incredibly taxing. Couple that with my low tolerance for misery (eventually you need to GET OVER IT and move on, in my opinion), I guess I shouldn't be surprised that she pushed me away so often. And I shouldn't be surprised that after she pushed me away, she gravitated toward naive losers who just wanted a girlfriend. They validated and soothed every syllable that came out of her mouth, because it felt good to have her attention. I was honest with her. I'm proud of that, even if it harmed her fragile ego.

 

if you want to be married to a happy wife, you have to marry one who is ALREADY happy the day you meet her.

 

This is a wonderful statement, and I read it several times. It's hard to find someone who is 100% happy, but my ex was probably 10% happy when I met her, and well, she COULD have been say, 75% happy if she wanted to be, but she was intent on being a "victim" and being far from happiness. I thought that maybe she would find that happiness over time, but she never did. At the end, I would say she was at about 20%.

 

Our first real conversation was about what we wanted to do with our lives. She (to her credit) told me at the outset that she wanted to get her college degree and move away. I suppose I thought that maybe she would shape those plans around me, but I was wrong. I remember telling her I would EVENTUALLY (no rush) like to get my master's degree and move away as well, and it was after I said THAT that she told me she really liked me. I should have noticed that.

 

The other thing I should have noticed? When we really started talking and getting to know each other five years ago, she wasn't here at home (middle of the country). She was in Boston, staying with a (female) friend. Where did she meet this friend? Online, on a message board. She had never met her in person. She saved up a few paychecks, quit her job, flew to Boston, and basically squatted in this girl's apartment for two months until she ran out of money and had to come home. She had no working vehicle here at home, but used that money to run away instead. What was her excuse for doing this? She couldn't stand living with her mother anymore. To be fair, her mother IS a lunatic, but my ex sure lets it get to her.

 

She claimed that her plan was to find a job up there and stay, but I don't think she ever tried. She turned and ran away. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that it's her go-to plan whenever she is dissatisfied with her current life, which is almost always. But I should also remind myself that the last time she tried to do it, she quickly had to come back "home." She would regularly remind me never to mention that period of time in front of her mother. It was still a sour, weird issue between the two of them.

 

But the funny thing? I remember when she came back from Boston, she had worn out her welcome there with this "friend" and also said she was tired of the city. And that was after TWO months. Imagine if she actually succeeds and moves to New York! But when we talked about it near the end of the relationship (not in front of her mother, of course) she recalled it as a great accomplishment that she was able to go away and "collect" herself and "refuel." Never mind that it was a silly impulsive decision, and she came back to the EXACT same job, apartment, and life (except I was now a part of it) - she had to justify such a reckless decision. I assume she'll do the same with me, if she hasn't already.

 

Yes, you can make a BPDer happier for a short time. Then, as it is with other BPDers, we were always back to "what have you done for me lately?" ....Her reality, then, is whatever intense feelings she is feeling AT THAT MOMENT IN TIME.

 

Again, those last five words really hit home for me. We went from being happy on vacation in New York one week to her purposely avoiding me so she could stop having strong feelings toward me just TWO WEEKS later, then shortly afterward again saying we can't be together because we have "different goals".

 

I can remember (when things were good) when I would go over to her apartment, she would be overwhelmed with glee, texting me repeatedly how excited she was. Of course, I would have to validate her and say I was excited as well, or else she would ask me ("Are you, excited, too? I wasn't sure!"). And when I wasn't there, she would repeatedly tell me she missed me and wanted me to come over. I never looked at it with such intensity. To her, it was always an event. And it was intimidating, like I was assigned to make her happy, to stimulate her, emotionally. She took up a considerable amount of my time, and now I hope to use that time for myself.

 

As many have said, it WAS a toxic relationship. And I think I stayed with her for so long (and took her back so often) because she is the waif/quiet BPDer, and that fragile personality made it hard to realize how manipulating she was being. I'm codependent, but I think that if she was the acting-out borderline and treated me with hate and malice, I wouldn't have stayed. With all due respect to those of you in a BPD relationship, I think I am strong enough to not take THAT kind of s**t from a woman. But my ex, she did it with such guilt, with such remorse, with such comfort ("I'm SO sorry I'm hurting you!" every time she wanted to break up) that I couldn't help but want to just hold her, even when she was pushing me away. But it was the same kind of manipulation. And I'm better off without her.

 

I'll continue to visit this board and read replies to this thread, but like STH, I hope I get to a point where I don't need to come here anymore, with all due respect.

 

Thank you all again. I'm a better person because I came to this forum and realized I wasn't a nincompoop who was treating my girlfriend incorrectly. I'm not perfect, but I'm better than any other guy she will date in the future. That I am certain of. And my next girlfriend, whenever she comes along, will get the same treatment I gave my ex. And if she isn't appreciative, then she won't be my girlfriend anymore.

[SoThatHappened]

We went from being happy on vacation in New York one week to her purposely avoiding me so she could stop having strong feelings toward me just TWO WEEKS later,

So eerily similar. My ex couldn't wait to screw my brains out 2 nights before the breakup, then the night before the breakup, tell me over and over how much she just wants to show me how much she loves me and connects with me during sex.

 

Less than 18 hours later, she's telling me she's pushing me away because I don't want her and her daughter around? WTF?!

 

That's what blew me away, and I'm sure what has made you not be able to make sense of things. Who could make sense of things with someone like that? It's absolutely nuts.

 

I can remember (when things were good) when I would go over to her apartment, she would be overwhelmed with glee, texting me repeatedly how excited she was.

...

And when I wasn't there, she would repeatedly tell me she missed me and wanted me to come over.

At that moment, that's what she was feeling. And feeling it so intensely. I sometimes wonder if there was an ulterior motive to try and make us feel as intensely in love with them as they did with us. I have no idea, but it's not normal, as you have found out.

 

I'll continue to visit this board and read replies to this thread, but like STH, I hope I get to a point where I don't need to come here anymore, with all due respect.

You will get there. I don't feel the need to come back, but I still need a pick-me-up here and there. And my relationship was basically only a year.

 

Like with anything, sometimes you have to take a break from certain things. For me, I've had to take a couple short breaks from LS just to get my mind off of breakups. Soon you'll be coming here to give help more than get it. However, I still come for help, even though I'm past everything.

 

It's not linear healing. I've had some BAD days out of the blue, mixed in with really good days. Why?... no idea. Just happens. But the good days outweigh the bad. This will happen with you too.

 

You're probably like me: have to figure out "why" this happened, "why" she did what she did. I've spent 9 months trying to figure that out, from every angle imaginable. Eventually, you just stop giving a s***. The most important thing is to work on yourself and improve your life. That's the only thing you can control.

[GoBroncs1983]

STH, that is what has kept me from trying to contact her again - knowing how quickly she can turn. Why make the effort? If we can take a romantic vacation together and two weeks later, out of nowhere, she wants nothing to do with me, I can never, ever trust her. There was literally NO reason for her to want to break up this last time (or any other time, but especially this time). She even told me it would be at least two years before she could move away, because she can't get out of her car lease. Didn't matter - we still had to break up now, because she EVENTUALLY will move away. That is completely bonkers. And it's not normal behavior for an adult to exhibit. She can't justify it under any circumstances, and that keeps me away.

 

I'm having mostly good days right now. When this has happened seven different times to me, it's a bit easier to look at the situation and feel confident in my decision. I do wonder how she is doing, and I find that I will dream about her and wake up missing her, but then I think and remind myself what she has done, and I quickly right myself. When I started this thread, I was missing the times she and I shared together. It's hard for me to accept when something is over. Now I think of her as in the past. I hope it stays that way.

[Dark Passenger]

Someone can diagnose BPD from reading posts on a message board by an ex-BF?

 

umm.................okaaaaaaaaaaay

[SoThatHappened]

Someone can diagnose BPD from reading posts on a message board by an ex-BF?

 

umm.................okaaaaaaaaaaay

 

No. But others who have dealt with actual BPDders (like Downtown) can list warning signs and traits of it to help others stay away from a possible BPDer.

[Downtown]

Someone can diagnose BPD from reading posts on a message board by an ex-BF? umm.................okaaaaaaaaaaay

Dark, as STH explained, there is a world of difference between making a diagnosis (which only professionals can do) and simply spotting warning signs. This distinction is so well known to the public in the medical field because hospitals and medical centers have been publishing the warning signs for various diseases for many decades. They've been encouraging the lay public to learn these red flags because they know that, when the public is educated about spotting warning signs, they are far more likely to seek professional help -- and will do so far more quickly (when medical intervention can make a difference). The result is that most women know the warning signs for breast cancer, without being able to diagnose it. And most men know the red flags for heart attack and stroke -- without having a clue as to how those diseases are diagnosed.

 

Similiarly, mental health centers have been educating the lay public about the warning signs for personality disorders on their Internet websites over the past 10 years. They know that the lay public is capable of spotting these signs because there is nothing subtle about symptoms such as temper tantrums, strong verbal abuse, and always being "The Victim."

[GoBroncs1983]

And as I've previously said, at this point, I don't care about any professional diagnosis. Whether zero specialists or 500 specialists agree that she should be diagnosed with BPD, her behavior over the last five years has been irrational and unstable. It is recurring and predictable. More than once she has been ready to marry me one week, then purposely avoiding and trying not to speak to me the next week because she decides we now no longer have a future.

 

BPD or not, that isn't normal! And it's behavior that I don't want in my partner.

[jt27]

Don't even entertain people such as DarkPassenger. He's just a troll.

 

As for you Bronco, glad to hear you are coming to terms with the realization that your ex is a BDPer or at least displays many signs of such a person.

 

So much of what you say applies to my ex as well. I know something was inherently "wrong" with my ex during the relationship but didn't know what to attribute it to. It started off as she is just a "brat". Boy, was I wrong. It's much more and SHE WILL NEVER CHANGE.

 

I totally believe that now and that is the biggest thing that has helped me move on. I always believed (being codependent) that my strength could be her strength and get her through whatever adversity she was experiencing since I deal with stress and adversity well. Ya know, being stable and all. Not anymore because there will ALWAYS be "adversity" in her own mind and I cannot remedy it. She will always struggle with little, insignificant things that have no effect on the present or future. There were times in the relationship where I just flat out did not know how to react to such ridiculous behavior. Behavior you don't except from an adult. Like Downtown has said many times, it was like dealing with a 5 year old.

 

I tell myself this...if she cannot handle such little, stupid meaningless things such as losing a $4 dollar earring ("it's not fair!" she actually said that about a $4 dollar earring almost crying), how in the world is she going to handle REAL relationship strains such as money troubles or losing a job or health issues, etc? Could you imagine dealing with that? I can't and glad I don't have to worry about it now.

 

My ex talked about marriage very early and often too. Too early and too often. I tried to make light of it and not really entertain it but when I asked why it mattered so much to her, I would get the typical answer I got to every question regarding her feelings..."I don't know".

 

The last reason my ex gave me before it ended (and I didn't chase her down right away) was "It freaks me out when I think of moving in with you so maybe you aren't the 'one'". I asked why she felt that way..."I don't know". Funny, she actually tried to move in about a year earlier but moved out after 1 DAY. She reassured me it had nothing to do with me and she's right, it doesn't. Because she doesn't have the ability to look at herself (or doesn't want to) she just thinks it has to be me. Nevermind the fact that she has never lived on her own (28 years) and that she has serious issues with her mother, she 'd rather blame me. If she can't connect deeply with herself, how can she connect deeply with me?

 

I still think it was a test as well. A test to prove my love, push/pull crap. Since I didn't chase her down right away, I proved to her (in her own mind) that I didn't want to be with her and justified her fear of abandonment. By the time I proposed, she'd already painted me black.

 

See, these types don't have the ability to look deeper at themselves to find the real reason they feel the way they do. That and/or they are afraid of what they might find out if they do. It's easierto avoid that and just blame the other person instead of looking in the mirror.

 

When they are getting what they want out of the relationship/you, they are happy. When you don't do things "right", they dismiss you. It's a no win situation with these types. Something my ego couldn't accept previously. The more I did and the more I loved her, the worse it got. So much fear.

 

I'll give a quick example of the push/pull. There was a time (in the last few months) when I was getting in better shape and looking back, I can see where this made my ex afraid. Even my mother mentioned it. She noticed how much more clingy my ex got when this happened. I thought it was because she was more attracted to me. Wrong. She was more insecure and afraid I would leave her because I would get more attention from women so she got clingy. Then of course, that changed a couple weeks later..then changed again...and again... You would think she waould be happy I was healthier physically, instead she saw it as a threat.

 

The after effect of dating a BDPer is knowing the passion I had with my ex isn't going to be available with a healthy person. When you experience the "high" of being loved by a BPDer, "mature" love is well, boring in a way. It's so high and so intesne, it's impossible to sustain and is bound to crash. I think Downtown touched on this too. It's probably the codependency in me which is why I am at risk of falling for the same type of person again, though I know I won't allow myself to.

 

BDPers are like a drug. Kicking the habit takes a long time my friend. Keep fighting the good fight!

 

Downtown, just want to say thank you for all your insight and shared knowledge. You're a great help.

[Dark Passenger]

Dark, as STH explained, there is a world of difference between making a diagnosis (which only professionals can do) and simply spotting warning signs. This distinction is so well known to the public in the medical field because hospitals and medical centers have been publishing the warning signs for various diseases for many decades. They've been encouraging the lay public to learn these red flags because they know that, when the public is educated about spotting warning signs, they are far more likely to seek professional help -- and will do so far more quickly (when medical intervention can make a difference). The result is that most women know the warning signs for breast cancer, without being able to diagnose it. And most men know the red flags for heart attack and stroke -- without having a clue as to how those diseases are diagnosed.

 

Similiarly, mental health centers have been educating the lay public about the warning signs for personality disorders on their Internet websites over the past 10 years. They know that the lay public is capable of spotting these signs because there is nothing subtle about symptoms such as temper tantrums, strong verbal abuse, and always being "The Victim."

 

Good points. Thanks for the explanation. Sorry for my initial comment.