"What we did was not planned"

[compulsivedancer]

I think by the time the sex happened, so many lines are crossed that the sexual intercourse seems such a small step.

 

The first kiss is the biggest step probably in a physical way. And then the first touch in an intimate way. Soon it is natural to let that first article of clothing come off. And then it is just not "right" to tease him/her that way. Soon the nakedness is so comfortable that sex becomes "natural."

 

All along the way, the mind is screaming, "Stop!" but the body covers the ears because of all the thrilling feelings. The mind quits and the body takes over.

 

It is like the first shot of the forbidden drug. At first you know what can happen, but you load the needle. Your mind is telling you that this could ruin you as you put the needle into your arm. But then the feelings engulf your mind and body as the drug runs through your veins. The only important thing at that point is to keep that high going as long as possible.

 

This is actually almost exactly what happened, over a long period of a few months. Although it wasn't the first kiss. It was much earlier. Actually, sex, when I happened was literally physically accidental. Of course we were naked and doing something we shouldn't've been doing, but it made the first time a much smaller line to cross than, say, the first time we were naked together.

[NotCamelot]

Please, tell me this did not happen. Tell me she did NOT say that!

 

Oh, yeah. Sure did.....said it just like it was the normal innocent thing to say.

[JamesM]

This is actually almost exactly what happened, over a long period of a few months. Although it wasn't the first kiss. It was much earlier. Actually, sex, when I happened was literally physically accidental. Of course we were naked and doing something we shouldn't've been doing, but it made the first time a much smaller line to cross than, say, the first time we were naked together.

 

Thank you for your honesty.

 

I think if we are all honest, then looking back (for anything we do wrong or right) we can see that it started with a small step. Even our marriages, relationships, etc. began with that first look or thought that led to the next step. "Maybe just one more glance."

 

 

Alright Clinton, let's clear something up - YOU WERE HAVING SEX ALREADY.

 

Isn't this the game high schoolers play? "Oh, we have oral sex all the time, but we don't have sex." HELLO??? The name is oral SEX. SEX is right there in the name of what you were doing.

 

Actually, she mentioned being naked together.

 

Point is....most of the time affairs are not planned. Each person thinks that one more step will be okay and then he or she will stop it. But that doesn't happen for whatever reason.

 

And while the pain of the BS is strong on this and other similar threads, it is important to note that affairs are not some dirty and whorish act as compared to a regular relationship. They are simply a relationship. It is the breaking of the vow or commitment that is the wrong part. To transfer the pain and anger on the relationship and pretend that it is somehow so much less pure than any other avoids the real wrong in an affair.

 

The problem is the breaking of the vow. The pain comes from the betrayal. The anger is due to the destruction of trust.

 

IMO most affairs are not planned by both parties. I do think that often one side does plan how to get it going, and it isn't always the WS nor is it always the AP.

[Spark1111]

Oh, yeah. Sure did.....said it just like it was the normal innocent thing to say.

 

But see? They almost ALL say that. It's what they tell themselves so often, it becomes their truth and remains so until the light of reality is shined upon it.

[road]

Best I remember from last year, her response was "That was the only thing I had clean that day." Of course, it was a lie. She knew that I knew she was lying. She just did not want to admit it at the time.

 

Of course the top and bottom were both promptly destroyed by me.....with no word except: "Good, I was going to do the same thing." And I really believe her. She is very ashamed and remorseful - still.

 

She did buy the stuff for me. Just wasn't the kind of stuff she'd wear except on special times. Definitely not daily wear items.......

 

 

Upon hearing that I do not know whether I would of called her on it or fall down on the floor and laugh my as off. Probably I would of not said anything because she knew she was caught and hated to admit that she did it for the OM.

 

As to WW saying good I was going to do that to and cut up the underwear too. I would of not taken that literal either. That was a WW supporting your actions getting rid of triggers. She knew she had to support you in that. Hence she spoke those words.

 

I have read where WW fought tooth and nail to not get rid of things contaminated by the affair. It is a good sign that your WW saw the need for those things to go.

[road]

This is actually almost exactly what happened, over a long period of a few months. Although it wasn't the first kiss. It was much earlier. Actually, sex, when I happened was literally physically accidental. Of course we were naked and doing something we shouldn't've been doing, but it made the first time a much smaller line to cross than, say, the first time we were naked together.

 

 

This I have to hear. You and OM naked. You and OM had no intention of having sex.

 

Why were you and the OM naked?

[road]

It kinda reminds me of what my exMM said to me when I (stupidly) mentioned my desire to tell my H about the A.

 

" don't make what we did something dirty"

 

Which is what I guess exposure does. But the real irony to the statement was he often talked about wanting to do "dirty things to me" using the very word dirty. But then again, he was a vetran cheater and I think had the highly tuned ability to do and say something and then immediantly forget it happened afterwards.

 

 

No tuned ability to forget.

 

Just the willingness to say whatever he had to, to get laid.

[compulsivedancer]

Alright Clinton, let's clear something up - YOU WERE HAVING SEX ALREADY.

 

Isn't this the game high schoolers play? "Oh, we have oral sex all the time, but we don't have sex." HELLO??? The name is oral SEX. SEX is right there in the name of what you were doing.

 

Didn't say it wasn't. I was commenting on the lines thing, that crossing the line happened much much before intercourse (is that a better word?).

 

Btw, sex did NOT "just happen" with us, and I never claimed it did. OM did on DDay, though. I thought it was odd that he would, since it's clear that wasn't the case. But he was trying hard to minimize; I think he was mostly afraid H would physically hurt him. He just wanted out of the room before I told H the whole truth.

[compulsivedancer]

This I have to hear. You and OM naked. You and OM had no intention of having sex.

 

Why were you and the OM naked?

 

We intended to eventually. We were drawing out the leadup. Somehow taking it in very very slow steps made it easier to justify. Being naked together was the step we were on currently. We didn't quite intend for sex to happen that day, but it would've been soon if it hadn't happened then.

[road]

We intended to eventually. We were drawing out the leadup. Somehow taking it in very very slow steps made it easier to justify. Being naked together was the step we were on currently. We didn't quite intend for sex to happen that day, but it would've been soon if it hadn't happened then.

 

 

So you were naked to kiss and pet?

 

Maybe to Bill Bubba Clinton that is not sex. To me it is. If what you were doing was not sex then your BH would not be upset if you did that with the OM in front of your BH.

[compulsivedancer]

So you were naked to kiss and pet?

 

Maybe to Bill Bubba Clinton that is not sex. To me it is. If what you were doing was not sex then your BH would not be upset if you did that with the OM in front of your BH.

 

Hey, I answered that question just two posts back.

[Spark1111]

We intended to eventually. We were drawing out the leadup. Somehow taking it in very very slow steps made it easier to justify. Being naked together was the step we were on currently. We didn't quite intend for sex to happen that day, but it would've been soon if it hadn't happened then.

 

Just love this......

 

 

if this isn't the perfect defining post to the rationalizations that cheaters use to justify, it ain't that bad, not really.....I do not know what is.

 

I am sitting naked with a man not my spouse....and somehow it's okay.

 

cannot imagine the reaction of my fWS had I tried this with someone, anyone, not him.

 

Thanks for your honesty.

[Spark1111]

It kinda reminds me of what my exMM said to me when I (stupidly) mentioned my desire to tell my H about the A.

 

" don't make what we did something dirty"

 

Which is what I guess exposure does. But the real irony to the statement was he often talked about wanting to do "dirty things to me" using the very word dirty. But then again, he was a vetran cheater and I think had the highly tuned ability to do and say something and then immediantly forget it happened afterwards.

 

OR this! Just perfect!

 

Let's romanticize us so WE CAN keep on doing dirty, secret things.....and call it something else. let's pretend our sordid sex is somehow more noble....but please, let's keep it real dirty.

 

I am not being snarky here and I applaud your honesty.

 

yet, six years from DDay, I cannot believe how much revealed in this thread smacks home to the texts I intercepted.

 

sexual innuendo cloaked as romance and emotional desire. APs....project whatever you wish or need....it still works.

[NotCamelot]

Clearly the WS will say or do anything for self preservation!

 

IMO, as long as a person has the physical ability, in some form, to say NO.........then NOTHING "just happens".

 

It's just not possible.

 

A car accident "just happens". An earthquake "just happens". I could go on, but you get the point. You can't say NO to these things.....they happen without one's ability to say no to them.

 

No one has sex with anyone, including the spouse, without the chance to say no, except in the case of rape (and I have read where some WS's claimed that!!!).

[JamesM]

Really? Then why the lies? Why the hiding? Because it is NOT a regular relationship in any way.

 

No one said it was "regular."

 

They lie to their spouses, they lie to each other,

 

They don't always lie to each other. But the relationship is built on a lie.

 

they put on their 'best' selves.

 

As do all dating couples.

 

There is nothing at all normal about almost all affair relationships

 

True. That does not make them dirty or whorish. A whore is someone who gets paid to have sex. If that applies to affairs, then that sometimes applies to marriages.

 

. Honestly, this is about the most wrong thing I've ever seen written about them.

 

Really?

 

I'm sorry, but it is completely off the mark.

 

Please reread the whole paragraph. I will quote the rest:

And while the pain of the BS is strong on this and other similar threads, it is important to note that affairs are not some dirty and whorish act as compared to a regular relationship. They are simply a relationship. It is the breaking of the vow or commitment that is the wrong part. To transfer the pain and anger on the relationship and pretend that it is somehow so much less pure than any other avoids the real wrong in an affair.

 

Note that the ACTUAL RELATIONSHIP is not the problem. It is the breaking of the vow and the lies that are a part of the relationship.

 

Fact is....if the relationship were as it is but between two uncommitted people, then neither you nor I would have a problem with it.

[JamesM]

You sound like my WH. That's how silly and wrong this is.

 

Thank you?

 

The relationship IS the problem. It is built on lies.

 

Perhaps semantics, but the problem is because the relationship is built on lies between two people where at least one is committed to another. The actual relationship by itself is not "dirty" or evil. What is causes and what occurs because of it....that is the problem.

 

The relationship is wrong. You cannot separate the lies from the relationship as a large part of what makes the A so 'special' to the participants is the secret they share. Without that it isn't nearly as fun.

 

You have a good point here, and I agree to a point. Many affairs would not occur if the two had met under normal circumstances. The relationship is wrong and on lies.

 

I think you're a very bright person James,

 

Thank you.

 

but I disagree with much of what you think about affairs.

 

That's okay. I like to get a good discussion going.

 

I don't think you've ever experienced one firsthand on either side, which would explain a lot. True, you don't have an ax to grind, but you also don't have any real world experience.

 

Nor do I have a bias. But I have read and listened to many who have been in one on both sides. A close friend cried on more shoulder for years during her pain and his affair. In fact, she helped keep me from one myself.

 

Again, without the secrecy, the relationship just isn't the same. There is nothing remotely 'normal' about an affair.

 

In this I would defer to APs and WSs. I think there is many similarities but also differences. For many, the relationship deepens after the one or both are divorced. For others, they split. And yet for many they go back to their marriages. None are so typical that they can be called normal.

 

So, the relationship can never be as it is without the lies. It IS the lies.

 

I think another problem not stated often is that one person THINKS the relationship is normal and the other thinks it is temporary. Hence, more lies.

[Spark1111]

lol, like my married man implied when he told his wife I took advantage of him while he was so drunk he only remembers me maybe giving him head. I think he is willing to say anything to save his lifestyle. I think it is more sad that she i willing to believe anything to be with him.

 

But see? How does she differ from you and how you felt during the affair?

 

wasn't there many a thought or feeling you overlooked or projected onto her to continue the affair with him?

 

that's how the triangle HAS to work to succeed.