thoughts on forgiveness

[ladydesigner]

I'm just going to say something here (and if you want to turn the guns on me...I understand)

 

I don't know how many countless times I have heard from a WS "No matter what I did...I couldn't make her / him happy" This is the usual excuse for cheating, this is the usual excuse for leaving, and this is the usual excuse for divorce.

 

So, my advice is to do your best to wrestle this demon on your own, for the most part. I know!!! BANG! ok, I get it. BUT the problem you can run into...... not saying you will, is that your WS may just give up. I mean you truly can't beat a dead horse for the rest of your marriage.

You have to do your best to "forget" it. I don't mean let them off the hook (not by any means) but try not to have the same conversations, same arguments over and over again.

YES you deserve all the answers

YES you deserve to have him make you feel safe and secure

YES you will need extra comfort, confirmation

YES you will need to see remorse

 

Just be careful not to let it "rule" your life. If you can't "get over it" it will hinder your R. (I realize it takes time)

Just try not to continuously punish. If he feels that you will never get over it or never forgive him, it may be time for a divorce after all.

 

Ready..........AIM!!!...

 

^I really liked this post.

 

For the longest time I was stuck in this same spot Katie. I like you am a FWS. Thing is what you and I both felt during our A's were probably similar to how they felt during theirs and I think that hurts. Once I accepted that, how am I any different, that's when I stopped punishing WH.

 

Our A's were different though, my WH handled the after math of his A horribly and dragged me over the coals until the bitter end (I would not have done that to him ). I believe it is how the A is dealt with post DDay that really foretells how to proceed with R or D. I am very hesitant in just jumping in with both feet because post DDay actions prove to be something much more serious with my WH.

 

Try to focus on yourself. I think I have detached in a healthy way and with time will be able to allow vulnerability back in again or not depending on how WH conducts himself.

[James-London]

Hi Katielee,

 

I note that you have cheated and been cheated on, so you can see both sides of the fence. I recently started a thread to ask people how it is possible to cheat and still love someone at the same time -

 

https://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/427131-how-can-you-love-someone-cheat-same-time

 

I was just wondering if you had anything thoughts on this, and if might want to drop a post, as I would value your thoughts and feedback! Many thanks!

[katielee]

"I believe it is how the A is dealt with post DDay that really foretells how to proceed with R or D"

 

thank you for posting on here. Your post makes a lot of sense to me as a MH... and especially this quote.

His affair post Dday was dealt with anger by him that I cut off his drug, and then another affair a couple months later. I suppose that's why I'm so shell-shocked.

I'm trying to focus on myself... but my thoughts reside in our future :/

 

your sentence that it hurts me because he was probably in the same place I was during his affairs - oh yeah - thoughts about the AP all day long, the phone calls, the "how can we see each other" stuff. Blech. It effing stings. I know exactly how he felt and I cannot stand that.

[ChooseTruth]

Fire that MC.

 

You can only repair trust by being able to verify NC. The WH being an open book. WH contacting you throughout the day to let you know he got to work, left work, and use land line at work to verify he was there by caller ID. By the WH repeatedly confirming NC and being where he says he is will trust issues be repaired. Not restored. Because after an affair trust will never be able to be blind at 100%.

 

Now do you see why you need to get the book Surviving An Affair by Dr Harley.

 

Edit to add that I forgot to say the WH always was able to find time to contact their AP.

I thought YES, then I found out that both are WSs and BSs...and that situation is completely over my head. Someone should write a book on that subject specifically, I've seen enough cases like that on here that I think the book would move copies.

 

I still feel like you need to trust but verify for a while...but that's pretty messy with two of you doing it(snooping that is). When did the respective As happen? Is one of you farther along the line toward regaining trust than the other? I guess you both need to accept the other doesn't trust you and accept the snooping just like a normal WS should. At the same time you need to be assured your spouse is making progress and is being trustworthy. I don't believe in blind trust after lies and betrayal. To me that's stupidity and enabling, not forgiveness.

[katielee]

choosetruth - we are 3.5 years out from mine. 1.5 years out from his...

I am a believer that its easier to trust with a confession rather than being found out... and he agrees but that's the way it shook out. I confessed, he got caught.

 

Snooping - I haven't looked at his email since April 2012. As long as I know i could, and he leaves his phone around for me, that's good enough for me. I look at phone records about once a month.

 

I don't need him to call me to prove his whereabouts. I do need him to call me to check in just to chat and connect. I don't want to need that but it appears it makes me a lot calmer.

 

What I discussed in IC this am is that there is a business breakfast tomorrow am where OW#2 works. We have not discussed it. I just want to see what he will do. and if he will tell me about it. that will tell me a lot about his commitment to the marriage. I'm in a little tizzy about it and I suppose that's why I had to post today. My IC says "enough living this way. Decide to not care where he is or what he is doing." I can't do it.

[James-London]

How can someone "decide to not care". Either you care or you don't. You don't make a decision about it. Its a bit like deciding that you don't like a work of art or something. Sometimes it is like therapists have a book of "therapy phrases" they pull randomly from their manual. I doubt they even know what they mean.

 

I am sorry that all this infidelity is still such a dominant theme in your life. Although it is totally understandable. I hope you guys can continue to communicate better and better so you can then anticipate each others' needs. I think that is the only way you will trust him more and then finally be more happy.

[ChooseTruth]

choosetruth - we are 3.5 years out from mine. 1.5 years out from his...

I am a believer that its easier to trust with a confession rather than being found out... and he agrees but that's the way it shook out. I confessed, he got caught.

 

Snooping - I haven't looked at his email since April 2012. As long as I know i could, and he leaves his phone around for me, that's good enough for me. I look at phone records about once a month.

 

I don't need him to call me to prove his whereabouts. I do need him to call me to check in just to chat and connect. I don't want to need that but it appears it makes me a lot calmer.

 

What I discussed in IC this am is that there is a business breakfast tomorrow am where OW#2 works. We have not discussed it. I just want to see what he will do. and if he will tell me about it. that will tell me a lot about his commitment to the marriage. I'm in a little tizzy about it and I suppose that's why I had to post today. My IC says "enough living this way. Decide to not care where he is or what he is doing." I can't do it.

OK so you have some distance from both. 4 months after D-Day my snooping had really dropped to a small amount and trust was returning..but then I found a mass of lies and that set us WAAAYY back.

 

If he's going to be around an OW...that's probably going to trigger you no matter what the timeline is and he should understand that and be proactive about reassuring you I would think. You shouldn't have to ask...but don't let that stop you from asking.

[Betrayed&Stayed]

My IC says "enough living this way. Decide to not care where he is or what he is doing." I can't do it.

 

Two thoughts to ponder:

 

1 - For the first few years forgiveness is a daily decision. It's okay to not forgive on a particular day. During the first 3 years post d-day I allowed myself days that I chose not to forgive. On those days it was just too hard. I knew that the next day would be better, and I could make the decision to forgive. I allowed myself "bad" days.

 

2 - At some point if you are going to successfully reconcile you will have to allow yourself to be vulnerable again. This does not mean blind trust, but you will have to open yourself up to vulnerability at some point. Intimacy involves risk. Being 1.5 years out might not be enough time for you. That's okay.

[katielee]

I swear only ppl who have been through this understand. Thank you!!

 

I'm not going to ask about tomorrow. It's his deal to tell me...I need to know if he will come to me with something uncomfortable. If not, then I know....

[AlwaysGrowing]

Katie, I admire your resilience.

 

You seem like a genuine soul who is looking for peace.

 

You say that your thoughts reside in "our future". Is it that you doubt it, or are afraid to believe it.

[katielee]

Katie, I admire your resilience.

 

You seem like a genuine soul who is looking for peace.

 

You say that your thoughts reside in "our future". Is it that you doubt it, or are afraid to believe it.

 

 

I guess I mean, I wonder what will happen to us. I wonder if I can get passed this.

[drifter777]

...

 

Tough tough IC session where she said: you feel like **** every day. You are too dependent on him and his actions to make you feel safe and happy.. Just depend on yourself.. man, tough to hear.. true though. Not sure why I am stuck as I have a big life...

It amazes me that any counselor would actually say something like this to a client. If you, the client, don't come to these conclusions yourself then this is just noise - like something you read on a bumper sticker. Ask your counselor why she feels the need to tell you how you feel and what you should do to feel happier.

[katielee]

drifter - honestly, I think she was trying to say, "wake up from this co-dependent bull crap." We are going to target this next week with EMDR. This dependency has been going on since we were first married, I had three babies - a set of twins born when our son was 12 months old , and he had the job. Wow, we were stressed back then!