Am I wrong to want this?

[Spotme]

This is not about the OW. Your husband is taking advantage of cheap forgiveness.

 

He wants the OW to think kindly of him. He's a coward hiding behind his duty to marriage and family. This allows him to be a martyr and be the editor of his grand love affair.

 

Your husband needs a strong dose of reality. That reality is you handing him his suitcase and wishing him well. Odds are he doesn't really want to be step dad to her children and lose his family and half of his assets.

 

Cheap forgiveness and enabling your spouse to portray himself as a tragic victim to his affair partner is nothing but bulls**t.

 

You set the standard of your own value and the love and respect you deserve.

 

If you don't put your foot down now you will never be at peace within yourself.

 

Sometimes, more often than not, you must be willing to end your marriage at the risk of saving it.

 

Read this and keep rereading it. Furious is so very right.

[pinkstraws]

A. I think you're wrong not to want to know the truth.

 

 

B. Your eagerness to blame the other woman, when she bears zero responsibility for this whatsoever, is indicative of you wanting to take the easy way out (while once again avoiding the real truth ).

 

 

C. If indeed your husband is merely in this for the children, then he's doing them an even greater disservice than he is doing you.

 

Okay...I get this.

 

Also, what the other awesome posters said - THANK YOU to everyone who has replied!!! Your words make me feel like I am not insane which may be the reason that today I feel like I had the first happy day in months and months.

 

I agree that I am trying to take the easy way out by blaming her and forgiving him too easily. It feels comfortable and this is all so uncomfortable, I do want to stick to what feels slightly less agonizingly painful.

 

What I do not know is what do I DO about it?

 

I'm seriously good on my own. I am not with my H for some sad financial or confused emotional need. I love him and want to be with him and always have. The kids like having him around but they are eight months away from going college. My son thinks I've forgiven too fast, even. He doesn't want to be a part of a vow renewal, for example, though I think he will come around in time, when evidence shows his dad is more worthy of the trust I've given him (too soon, apparently).

 

It is just a fact that my husband has the love of his children without being with me. I made sure of that from the second this came out; I preserved their relationship with their father. They hated/hate the OW and wanted him to end it with her, but they said they were fine if he found someone else. He is definitely not with me for the kids, in reality. Honestly, they are onto their own lives already.

 

I can see that he is truly sorry. People here have confirmed what I felt - that he needed to commit to ONE truth, not two because obviously this means one is a lie and - lets just face facts - history shows I'm probably the person holding the lie here. Right? I'm thinking it. We are all thinking it. But then again, he is not with me for the kids.

 

I want to believe him - yes - but deep down, I do mostly (like, 90%) believe him. I do. I believe that he feels responsible for dragging her into this affair, he feels guilty for ending her marriage, he feels terrible for hurting all four of the kids in these two families. And I believe that he doesn't see the point in creating more pain. She threatened suicide at one point (totally manipulative, no one that evil kills themselves, they kill others, ruin lives, etc.)

 

I know he didn't ruin her marriage, but he accepts this responsibility because she is an immoral therapist (yes, I reported her on day-two of this) and she planted every possible psychological booby-trap known to man in my H's mind.

 

I've seen the emails - she used every therapist technique in the book and he was just flattered and stupid.

 

Yes, of course, I check up on everything he says and does and he gives me access to his emails and FB and computers. He leaves his cell phone lying around and we shared all of our passwords. I am not a fool, though. He could still have another email account. He could still be using skype or some other messaging thing after I'm asleep to contact her. How would I know for sure? He can easily delete computer history.

 

If I am being logical and not emotional, he might let her flatter him for the ego boost, but he would not go back to her as our kids would never forgive him. He has to know that. He wouldn't risk that again. He just wouldn't. Every email I have seen (and I have seen hundreds) supports what he says. But it is true that once he ended it with her I know they communicated for as long as a month after and I saw almost none of these. Just to be clear, I had not decided to take him back at that point (all of May) and I wasn't insisting he do anything, including not speak to her.

 

Once I decided to take him back (in June) he did send her a (brief) email saying that I (not him) felt their communication was inappropriate. She kept communicating with him telling him that they were "adults" and could "pick up a phone" without feeling like they were doing something wrong. After finding out, he gave me her phone number and I sent her a text saying all future communication would go through me (he had stuff at her house and we had to arrange a time to go get it). This was late June. There was one other communication a few weeks ago which I initiated (I flipped out and emailed her) and in it I could tell that they had not spoken since I texted her. She didn't even know where we were living.

 

What are the next steps? I want him to write this letter; I don't care if she laughs at it. It is the principal of the thing, showing that he loves me and will do this for me/us. We are talking Sunday about it. I told him some things based on what I've learned here but I want to give him time to think and digest so we don't just have the same stupid conversation all over again.

 

Sorry if I am all over the place. Thanks again everyone!

[Realist3]

he had stuff at her house and we had to arrange a time to go get it)

 

You are kidding yourself. Sorry if that is blunt, but you are. His connection is with her, but he just can't make the move for whatever reasons he sees in his head.

 

You are looking for some petty statement from him to her?????

 

No, you are looking for re-assurance that is false.

[Jonah]

Reading the OW forum, one of the most difficult things they deal with is a belief that the WH really wants to be with them but can't. So much kinder would be a simple we are done, goodbye than a lingering ILY but can't be with you. Bottom line though, it is a hook that the WH leaves which is certainly not a closure. In sympathy? No I don't think so... its a hook and it's the same hook he used to hook her in the first place, just different bait is all, one in which a juicy reunion could be waiting in the future. And now you got hooked into buying into the sympathy bologna which in actuality is an in your face betrayal. You should call the OW and out your practicing WH for his continued phoniness. Have a nice long conversation on what a card this joker is.

[pinkstraws]

You are kidding yourself. Sorry if that is blunt, but you are. His connection is with her, but he just can't make the move for whatever reasons he sees in his head.

 

You are looking for some petty statement from him to her?????

 

No, you are looking for re-assurance that is false.

 

 

Are there affairs that sound comforting or good when they are re-told? I didn't think there was such a thing as infidelity that didn't have messy, painful, horrible aspects and evidence of betrayal.

 

I asked if people thought what I wanted was pettty; that is why I posted. So fair enough; I am willing to face that my impulses in this mess are petty, revenge-based or even deluded...but there is no way for anyone but my H to know if the re-assurance I am looking for is false.

[Realist3]

Are there affairs that sound comforting or good when they are re-told? I didn't think there was such a thing as infidelity that didn't have messy, painful, horrible aspects and evidence of betrayal.

 

I asked if people thought what I wanted was pettty; that is why I posted. So fair enough; I am willing to face that my impulses in this mess are petty, revenge-based or even deluded...but there is no way for anyone but my H to know if the re-assurance I am looking for is false.

 

I do see it as petty, but you are correct in that the only person that knows for sure is your H. As I stated before it will take time and time alone to re-assure you.

 

You could get him to do cartwheels in front of her showing how happy he his with his choice, but that is nothing but a show. Get her out of your head.

[JamesM]

There is one problem - my husband also feels terrible about how much he hurt the other woman. In an effort to 'let her down gently' he told her something that goes like this: "you are the true love of my life and always have been but I need to go back to my terrible wife for the good of my children."

 

I hate this and it eats away at me. Am I wrong to want my husband to tell her the truth?

 

What may bother you most is...is this really how HE feels?

 

And that is what you need to resolve. If for some reason, he meant it as he told her, then you two have some extensive counseling ahead...or should have.

 

No, he should not get in contact with her again to change his statement. What he told her doesn't change your future with him. Your goal should be the rebuilding of trust and staying away from the OW. Put this behind you after you are certain that your H truly wants to be with you.

[Realist3]

Reading the OW forum, one of the most difficult things they deal with is a belief that the WH really wants to be with them but can't. So much kinder would be a simple we are done, goodbye than a lingering ILY but can't be with you. Bottom line though, it is a hook that the WH leaves which is certainly not a closure. In sympathy? No I don't think so... its a hook and it's the same hook he used to hook her in the first place, just different bait is all, one in which a juicy reunion could be waiting in the future. And now you got hooked into buying into the sympathy bologna which in actuality is an in your face betrayal. You should call the OW and out your practicing WH for his continued phoniness. Have a nice long conversation on what a card this joker is.

 

 

I can understand this reasoning, but what makes you assume it is false?

 

I can say without a doubt that if push came to shove, I would likely say something similar; but it wouldn't be as a hook, it would be the truth.

[Realist3]

Are there affairs that sound comforting or good when they are re-told? I didn't think there was such a thing as infidelity that didn't have messy, painful, horrible aspects and evidence of betrayal.

 

 

No. Affairs are excruciating on all ends.

 

Everyone involved knows this.

[PhoenixRise]

I don't think you are wrong or petty in what you want from your husband. I think what you are feeling is perfectly normal.

 

It is possible that your H told the OW the truth about why he was reconciling with you. Although since you say you are fine financially without him and the children are soon leaving for college and are into their own lives, I think staying for the family/children would be less of a motivation for him. But its possible.

 

It is also possible that your H just didn't want to be the bad guy in the OW's eyes. He doesn't want her to think he is a jerk who ruined her life/marriage and then skipped happily back to his own happily ever after with his wife consequence free.

 

You are not wrong to want the record to be set straight either way. IF he is with you because he loves you and wants to be with you then everybody should know that, including the OW.

 

But I do think having him contact her specifically to tell her that is a mistake. IT will show her your insecurity and it will encourage her.

But don't worry, with the half a$$ed way your H ended things she will be back eventually and he will get another chance to let her down not so easily. At that point he can tell her that he is exactly where he wants to be if he is indeed exactly where he wants to be.

 

Don't worry right now that your focus is too much on the OW. It is normal in the early weeks/months after dday for this to happen. And it seems to me that if she was a manipulative as you say and used her professional training to mess with your life, your anger toward her is justified and focus on her is warranted (up to a point).

 

You seem like a capable woman, I will bet you can walk and chew gum at the same time and Ill bet you can be angry at the OW and her actions AND be angry with and focused on your H and his actions at the same time. AND anger at your H will come. Most likely out of the blue when you least likely expect it.

[waterwoman]

I can understand why you want that. Totally. But it won't help you in the long run. Anything he says has to be taken with a pinch of salt. What matters is what he does.

 

I don't know what H told OW when he ended it on dday. I was upset at the time that he deleted the text. But the thing is if he had written it for my consumption it might well have been different to what he wrote for her eyes only. The only thing that matters now is WHAT HE DOES. Actions not words. I know that is small comfort because there is always a niggling doubt about what he really wants and feels, but that doubt reduces day by day as his actions continue to reassure me. I need the words less.

[velvette]

Are there affairs that sound comforting or good when they are re-told? I didn't think there was such a thing as infidelity that didn't have messy, painful, horrible aspects and evidence of betrayal.

 

I asked if people thought what I wanted was pettty; that is why I posted. So fair enough; I am willing to face that my impulses in this mess are petty, revenge-based or even deluded...but there is no way for anyone but my H to know if the re-assurance I am looking for is false.

 

 

I don't think its petty; its normal. But, I do think your instincts are good and you will in time know if the reassurance from your H is real or false.

 

I also think Phoenix is spot on and this OW will make contact again.

 

I would ask H to write the letter. You don't have to send it:). Nor does he need to know you may not send it when he writes it.

 

That may give you a better idea where his head is at and it will already be written if she does contact him again without "inviting" that contact now.

 

Just be prepared that left to his own devices it may not come out textbook perfect and use it as a starting point to gain more info the two of you can use to make progress rather than something else to beat up on him.

[Realist3]

I disagree. Her H now has this OW thinking that she is his one true love and she will keep coming back for more. Now whether H is lying or telling the truth with that statement remains to be seen.

 

Either way, if his argument is that he doesn't want to be mean to her, then whenever she comes back for continued contact because she thinks he is her soulmate, then he will not want to hurt her by ignoring her.

 

But I think his message to OW was the truth, and he is trying to play his wife for a fool.

 

 

I'm confused. You think it was a hook, but you also think his message was the truth.

 

His message was the truth. We all know it. You don't send that if you are truly done. The BS explanation of letting her down easy means nothing.

 

This is the woman he loves and he can't have her so he will settle, just like everyone does.

[pinkstraws]

I don't think its petty; its normal. But, I do think your instincts are good and you will in time know if the reassurance from your H is real or false.

 

I also think Phoenix is spot on and this OW will make contact again.

 

 

Here is the thing - I know she will make contact again...but she is willing to wait decades, which means I get to live with this over my head not for months, but for the rest of my life. I just want the relationship as over as it can be so I can reasonably expect her not to return. Though I know she might.

[pinkstraws]

I'm confused. You think it was a hook, but you also think his message was the truth.

 

His message was the truth. We all know it. You don't send that if you are truly done. The BS explanation of letting her down easy means nothing.

 

This is the woman he loves and he can't have her so he will settle, just like everyone does.

 

You have hit the nail on the head...IF this is the truth, I need to know. I sincerely don't want him with me if he is settling; if in his mind he wishes he was with her, if he loves her.

 

I'm willing to put up with a lot, but not that. I mean, it's not about being right or wrong or flipping out or anything, it is just about who I am as a person and making choices in my life that are meaningful to me and that just isn't what I want for my life.

 

I think I should be able to make this choice, but right now, at this moment, I can't because all of the pieces of the puzzle are NOT on the table. Him saying one thing to me and something else to her makes one of us a fool, and no one but him knows who that person is.

 

Can this be resolved? If so, how? Is it time? How much time? I've spent three months trying to ignore that sometimes I worry he loves her and not me and it's been agonizing. Maybe it has gotten a little better...but really? Is this my future? Felling like this, wondering these things?

 

And then we come full circle to why I have anger towards the OW. At least my husband is in the midst of this with me. She is just having her life back and getting to feel righteous. It's unjust. I feel like the victim of a crime where the criminal is walking around mocking his victims.

[pinkstraws]

I don't think you are wrong or petty in what you want from your husband. I think what you are feeling is perfectly normal.

 

It is possible that your H told the OW the truth about why he was reconciling with you. Although since you say you are fine financially without him and the children are soon leaving for college and are into their own lives, I think staying for the family/children would be less of a motivation for him. But its possible.

 

It is also possible that your H just didn't want to be the bad guy in the OW's eyes. He doesn't want her to think he is a jerk who ruined her life/marriage and then skipped happily back to his own happily ever after with his wife consequence free.

 

You are not wrong to want the record to be set straight either way. IF he is with you because he loves you and wants to be with you then everybody should know that, including the OW.

 

But I do think having him contact her specifically to tell her that is a mistake. IT will show her your insecurity and it will encourage her.

But don't worry, with the half a$$ed way your H ended things she will be back eventually and he will get another chance to let her down not so easily. At that point he can tell her that he is exactly where he wants to be if he is indeed exactly where he wants to be.

 

Don't worry right now that your focus is too much on the OW. It is normal in the early weeks/months after dday for this to happen. And it seems to me that if she was a manipulative as you say and used her professional training to mess with your life, your anger toward her is justified and focus on her is warranted (up to a point).

 

You seem like a capable woman, I will bet you can walk and chew gum at the same time and Ill bet you can be angry at the OW and her actions AND be angry with and focused on your H and his actions at the same time. AND anger at your H will come. Most likely out of the blue when you least likely expect it.

 

I did go through a super angry period towards my H. I was really calm when I found out about the affair, my focus was on the kids, outing them, etc. When he wanted to return, I basically raged for four weeks. I'm not a violent person but I broke everything in sight (not around the kids) at one point. I've had about six major flip-outs of rage and anger. Every time he was patient and sorry and understanding.

 

I think his reaction to me working through my anger at HIM is one of the things I see as evidence that he does love me....

 

At one point I demolished my own computer due to ending up with a photo of them on it (long story) and he just calmly went out and bought me a new computer. I told him not to, but he said he felt bad that his actions led to me having a broken computer.

 

He got me a new wedding ring, re-proposed. He took me out shooting to help me work through my rage at the OW (he collects guns for sport, I was never into them, but shooting a gun after all of this felt dang good, I'll tell you that!)

 

He just came in here and brought me a cup of coffee, told me how glad he is to be with me and how lucky he is to have me. I told him we had to talk today, which I know he hates because all sorts of painful stuff comes up, but he was like, "Don't forget we have to talk today!" I mean, he is trying really hard. So if it is about what he DOES, what he does is great. There is just this one thing. Maybe I should ignore it and focus on the positive. Lots of people have said this too.

[pinkstraws]

Some additional background:

 

1) I have information about her that he gave me as evidence of his love for me that would destroy her emotionally. He wants this to be enough and maybe it should be enough. If she came back around, I could easily crush her like a bug.

 

2) She is a (terrible, but) prolific online writer and has a web blog. I recently discovered that one of her sex-blogs is about my husband. My kids could see it; her kids could see it. Her poor husband (who is one of the nicest people on the planet) must know who it's about, given the time frame it was posted. People wonder why I feel rage towards her? Augh!

 

This woman is pathologically selfish and cares nothing about who she hurts to preserve her own ego. Also, I don't think my husband ever checks her FB page and they are not friends, but I check her out all over the internet about once a week and she obviously thinks my husband checks on her too as she is always posting things with connections to their time together or sending him subtle messages (he had once said he hopes she reconciles with her kids and so the next three posts were photos of her and her kids, trying to reassure him, I guess)

 

I mean, I know I cannot control what people post online, but she is not just a normally manipulative person...she is a trained manipulator with no moral foundation and no conscience. She is evil. I don't think she is a current danger to my marriage but she is probably a future one and she is just a bad, bad person waltzing around in the background of my life.

[Coolit]

I agree with your last point' date=' he loves someone else. How can anyone reconcile when their H loves someone else. You just end up with a shell.[/quote']

 

Her second to last post shows me a man who loves his W not his OW. Did you read it?

 

Sometimes, j'adore, the people being lied to are the AP

[2sunny]

I can't tell if your H is sorry he cheated or sorry he got caught...please clarify...?

 

And is your H doing everything humanly possible to repair the damage HE caused?

 

Personally, I think you're handing the OW too much power by being hyper focused on her instead of your own M and what could be done to start the healing while shutting down the anger.

[pinkstraws]

I can't tell if your H is sorry he cheated or sorry he got caught...please clarify...?

 

And is your H doing everything humanly possible to repair the damage HE caused?

 

Personally, I think you're handing the OW too much power by being hyper focused on her instead of your own M and what could be done to start the healing while shutting down the anger.

 

I would say yes, he is doing everything possible. I would say he is sorry for the affair and glad he got caught. He has agreed to write this letter to the OW too. I have doubts from time to time mainly because it would be foolish not to - you don't fall back into trusting after something like this until a lot of time has passed but this letter will make me feel better.

 

The OW in this case is a truly evil human being. I have not fully explained the things she did as a trained therapist in the time of a death in the very-near family as it is just really difficult to write about...but I've seen the emails she sent. She used her power as a therapist to get what she wanted from someone torn apart by grief and looking for an escape. I truly can't say I wouldn't have done the same thing had someone very manipulative and cloaked as a person who might know the right way to behave had offered me an escape at that time.

 

I get what he did. What she did was evil. My anger is directed in the right place. I feel that it is.

[PhoenixRise]

I did go through a super angry period towards my H. I was really calm when I found out about the affair, my focus was on the kids, outing them, etc. When he wanted to return, I basically raged for four weeks. I'm not a violent person but I broke everything in sight (not around the kids) at one point. I've had about six major flip-outs of rage and anger. Every time he was patient and sorry and understanding.

 

I think his reaction to me working through my anger at HIM is one of the things I see as evidence that he does love me....

 

At one point I demolished my own computer due to ending up with a photo of them on it (long story) and he just calmly went out and bought me a new computer. I told him not to, but he said he felt bad that his actions led to me having a broken computer.

 

He got me a new wedding ring, re-proposed. He took me out shooting to help me work through my rage at the OW (he collects guns for sport, I was never into them, but shooting a gun after all of this felt dang good, I'll tell you that!)

 

He just came in here and brought me a cup of coffee, told me how glad he is to be with me and how lucky he is to have me. I told him we had to talk today, which I know he hates because all sorts of painful stuff comes up, but he was like, "Don't forget we have to talk today!" I mean, he is trying really hard. So if it is about what he DOES, what he does is great. There is just this one thing. Maybe I should ignore it and focus on the positive. Lots of people have said this too.

 

pinkstraws

 

I think your H gave the OW a lot of words. I think your H has given YOU a lot of words.

 

You will know the truth by his actions.

 

There are some who post here who think if something is said to the AP it must be the TRUTH. Like coming down off the mountain etched in stone tablets TRUTH. But really what a person does speaks so much louder than what they might say.

 

You are a smart woman and now that the infidelity is out in the open you will know if your husband is being sincere in his reconciliation or not. You don't need to trust him yet (he has to earn that back) you just need to trust yourself.

 

AND as for the OW, if she is as manipulative as you say and she used her professional training to manipulate your H and mess with your life then she deserves your anger, But for now, try not to worry about her too much and just be patient. IF she is everything you say, she will be back and you will get the opportunity to crush her like a bug at that point.

[pinkstraws]

pinkstraws

 

I think your H gave the OW a lot of words. I think your H has given YOU a lot of words.

 

You will know the truth by his actions.

 

There are some who post here who think if something is said to the AP it must be the TRUTH. Like coming down off the mountain etched in stone tablets TRUTH. But really what a person does speaks so much louder than what they might say.

 

You are a smart woman and now that the infidelity is out in the open you will know if your husband is being sincere in his reconciliation or not. You don't need to trust him yet (he has to earn that back) you just need to trust yourself.

 

AND as for the OW, if she is as manipulative as you say and she used her professional training to manipulate your H and mess with your life then she deserves your anger, But for now, try not to worry about her too much and just be patient. IF she is everything you say, she will be back and you will get the opportunity to crush her like a bug at that point.

 

Exactly. This is why having this letter seems important to me. I know she not only will be back, she is back in the sense that she is just waiting like a spider for a moment of weakness in my marriage. Affairs do not happen (usually) at times like this, where not only am I watching his every word and move, but also - we are feeling much closer and being more loving and communication is good...but years from now there may be another lull. I certainly don't want there to be, but if there is, I don't want to have to worry about the lull AND this insane woman.

 

Once he sends it, only time will tell. I feel optimistic, though.