What's the difference between emotionally unavailable and "just being a man"?

[candie13]

In most cases if you make a man feel safe where he won't feel like he will get chewed out if he says what he really feels a man will open up. Men are just afraid of stepping on an emotional landmine when they discuss their feelings with women.

 

There is a lot of truth in what you are saying. My ex would have this pattern, let me give you an example: we'd started to go out. Plenty of dates - two per week at the beginning, something like three after that. He'd kiss me after the third week - I just wanted to take my time to know him, we went to bed after a month or so.

 

After becoming intimate, we would spend even more time together, the following weeks. Then comes St. Valentines. He sort of hinted a few weeks before that he wasn't a big fan, but never mentioned it again. Since we'd started to see / sleep with each other every other day - or even every single day, during that time, it came to me as a shock, when the day before St. Valentines he flat out tells me he won't be available the next day. At all.

 

I had a horrible fit and told him something like: since I am good enough to be dated and f*cked every day of the year except St.V, you are not good enough to be dated and f*cked any other day than St.V.

 

He bullshyted me with stuff like - "we'd only been dating for not even two months", etc. In the end, after countless arguments and his pleading with me and saying it was a stupid incident (mind you, no apologies, no admission as to how he made me feel), I take him back.

 

Five months down the line, things are ok. I feel him withholding, but there is clear progression in his behavior and feelings towards me. My birthday arrives and I ask him to go away with me for the weekend. He invents a work related excuse. but reassures me that we will go somewhere together., before the end of June.

 

Guess what, I discover he lied not to be with me for my birthday. He was smart enough to cover it up and invent another meeting, but the real reason of his "not being available" was a lie.

 

Of course, I flew into a rage and dumped him again. Again, he made all the efforts possible to get me back, but I was having some pretty serious emotional fits.

 

Later on, he told me that my emotional fits, my reacting so violently were making him "freak out" - as a matter of fact, there was no birthday weekend as he promised.. I know he was saying the truth by being freaked out, because I was involved, by that time, and deeply hurt.

 

Woogle, I am not saying I could not have managed him in a cold, rational way, but... I care. And my emotional fits made him withdraw even further. And because I would feel him withdrawing, I would press harder.

 

I am saying to myself: if you know how to f*ck me, you should know how to handle me, when you are the one throwing me into my emotional crisis and then point fingers, freaking out, because I am losing it.

 

Legit or not? He pulled other stunts, but during his last famous come back, he bought me flowers but was too scared to give them to me in person. I ... made him freak out.

 

Male reaction? Feel free to be harsh and talk to me as if you talked to one of the guys.

Edited September 17, 2013 by candie13

[candie13]

GreenCove, apologies for the thread jackin', but my dilemma seemed to fit. My ex fits your description of an emotionally unavailable man, little communication... I've made my peace with it saying to myself that if the guy actually wanted to give me something, he would have done it by now, instead of inventing excuse - such as his being afraid.

 

His constant excuse: I am 38, I want to take it slowly and do things right. He sure did them "right". For himself, not for us.

 

Despite my bitterness and frustration, I just want to understand the potential impact of my reaction - very emotionally and how men react to that. It's just so unfair. He treats me like shyte and I get punished for hurting. Manipulator, right?

[Philosoraptor]

I once confided in a mentor of mine that I feared I was "too much." She gave some good advice: it all boils down to where you're coming from. If you're coming from an open, good-hearted place, intending to connect and include, eventually that intent will become evident. Likewise, if your "too-much-ness" is intended to dominate, exclude and disconnect, that, too, will eventually become evident, to those who are capable of paying attention. I took that to mean that perhaps sometimes, even if you're intent is to connect and include, people might read you as trying to dominate, and they may shrink away, or feel dislike toward you. At that point, you must ask yourself honestly whether your intent indeed is as pure as you'd like to think...and if it is, then you can go forward confidently, just as you are.

 

Gosh, I need to remember that. I've been torturing myself with what my ex's mom told me a couple of weeks ago, after the breakup, that my ex felt he always was failing to measure up. It makes me sad that he felt that way in the relationship...but at the same time, I have standards for myself, and I supported the standards for himself that he said he had, but he wasn't living up to them. So do I fault myself for pointing out what was true? I think perhaps no.

 

Philosoraptor, I've skimmed several of your threads, and I can relate so much to all the things you felt in your earliest threads, even down to feeling like life isn't worth living, not like this. I'd never end my life, but in my isolation where I live (I don't have friends here at all, just acquaintances, and my job situation is shaky, and so I really feel like I'm just spinning all alone even as I keep showing up to things hoping eventually to make some meaningful connections), I am overwhelmed with a sense of this life, right now, just not being at all something to feel proud of, or good about, or to want to be in. I take heart that you found your way out of this pain. You are a romantic, like me. I can never easily accept that things could just not fundamentally work out, with the right kind of care and effort, between two people who love each other. But that insistence harbors more, for me, than just being a "romantic." It's got some stuff mixed in that probably is not healthy, in my case.

 

Anyway, I just wanted to tell you I am grateful for your contributions to this board! Even only in skimming your threads, I feel a bit less alone. I'm heartened to see that things seem to have worked well for you, too.

Trick is to understand that you've done your best, and that's all you can do. Nothing in the world you say or do can help you steer another, that is their own decision to make. Which is why so many people, with the path laid out clear as day, still choose options that are self harmful.

 

There is nothing wrong with having standards, even more respect gained by sticking to them and not waffling. Him being unable to meet your standards is simply knowledge that naturally he isn't the fit that you are looking for. Openness from your partner is something you needed, and with confidence and patience you will find someone who does have that characteristic that you need in a relationship.

 

Just do what you can do, and be yourself. It's simply what my path boiled down to (and I'm glad my story was able to help you). People who are unhappy with themselves will attack your fundamentals, you'll find that both out in the world and here. But just stick to what you know makes you happy and comes natural, and don't let these downers get to you. Be patient and trust yourself, and with time you'll find that person who fits you well.

[knitwit]

I started therapy near the end of June for this very issue. What was your process like, in therapy? What was it that ultimately freed you to seek a relationship with someone who was able to give you what you wanted? Right now I just feel more lost than ever.

 

Alright, as you asked...this is going to be long as I had a LOT of work to do...

 

My process took a while. I was pretty daft, honestly. I started therapy almost for kicks, because a guy (who I broke up with) told me that I was not in touch with my feelings. I wasn't sure if that was true or not, and I have always been interested in psychology (I have two degrees in it, although both are research-based and not clinically/therapy-based.) I figured I might as well look into it and see how the therapy thing worked.

 

It was good timing, because shortly after I started therapy, my little sister, who was living with me in a city a couple hundred miles away from our primary family/friends, became seriously depressed. Her depression continued to deepen; I would listen to her sobbing at night and tried but couldn't do anything to help. My therapist, J, helped me navigate that time, helped me ask the right questions to my sister and I found out that she had a very detailed and workable suicide plan. J then immediately helped me get my sister to the ER and into an inpatient program.

 

I was devastated by what was happening with my sister; I felt very much like I failed her- I was her big sister, I was supposed to be her protector (we were in our 20s at this point), and I was terrified that she was going to get diagnosed with a mental health disorder. I was so gutted by what was going on that my mom thought that I might be the next one to go in-patient!

 

J started working with me to identify the source of my devastation, because it went beyond the normal concern for a loved one. J pointed out that:

-It is not possible to protect someone from their own depression

- It is not failure to recognize that something bad was happening and to act

- It was not a bad thing to get a mental health diagnosis if the diagnosis is accurate. In fact, an accurate diagnosis is much more likely to improve her outcome (e.g. she can get appropriate treatment and learn more about the disorder to manage it as much as possible.)

 

The realization that I had some backa$$ward thoughts and beliefs was the real start of my therapy process. I'll put the rest linearly but please not that it wasn't actually a linear process. Most of the time I was "getting" these things at the same time, and I went backwards a LOT.

 

Main processes:

1. Realizing that I mostly strove to be the Rescuer in the Drama Triangle (Karpman drama triangle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), and that I focused on the well-being of my target (whoever that person happened to be at the time/in the situation, could be sister, boyfriend, co-worker, friend, etc) to the exclusion of myself.

 

2. Realizing that my focus on the others is why I was not in touch with my feelings; I was so outer-focused that I was only paying attention to the other person. Even my feelings were based on how the Other was feeling (e.g. I am not feeling OK if my loved one/Other person was not feeling OK; if the other person is feeling OK then all is well in my world.)

 

3. Realizing that I had a deep belief that I was only worth anything if I was a good rescuer.

 

4. The corollary to that belief is that I was "worth-less" without an Other to focus on and keep well. In other words, I had a deep-seated belief that I was fundamentally, intrinsically Worthless.

 

5. We did a lot of work on resolving #4. Lots. The most difficult (and initially embarrassing) assignment she gave me was to ask my parents to write out a list of things that they admired about me- and none of those things could be related to what I did for others. They were to do their lists independently of each other. They both happily did it and each gave me a list of 10+ characteristics (although some of them did have things to do with others, but not too many), which really blew me away. It was really a wonderful gift from them.

 

It sounds silly, but that particular exercise really helped me a lot. I began to accept that maybe I was OK, even if deeply-flawed. With J's help I began to look for things that were OK about me- we would talk about what had happened since we last met, general things, and she would point out ways that I had handled something well, ways that I had demonstrated something that was on my parent's list.

 

Something else that happened during this time was that I found myself on a path towards forgiveness. I argued against having Good Things about myself by listing all the Bad things with my therapist. She worked on both lists, and helped me realize/accept that we ALL truly have strengths and weaknesses, wonderful aspects and flaws.

 

In fact, this strength/weakness balance is built into us. It is part of the design. There is no need to "punish" or be derisive towards myself because of my weakness or flaws. It was a matter of accepting that as a human being, I was going to have flaws. It was up to me to shore them up, give extra support in those weak areas, but one has to know about them before one can add additional support.

 

Somehow, I found that I was able to forgive myself for those many, many things I held against myself. And in forgiving myself, I was able also to accept that people I had more or less demonized were also just doing the best they could, and I could give them a break, forgive them as well.

 

 

 

 

 

6.

[BikerAccnt]

The part about making us men feel "safe" so we don't get chewed out is right on target. It seems that whenever we open up, we get slammed for it. Mainly, because we don't feel, the way we are "supposed" to feel. Meaning, we don't feel and think just like the person we are trying to support.

 

A perfect example just happened to me tonight. I am still close friends with an ex. She called tonight because she is having a fight with the city over some tree's on her tree lawn. She wanted to vent.

 

Now, as a man, I've learned that when a woman wants to vent, you let them. YOU DON'T FIX. So I didn't.

 

So after listening, and agreeing that whatever course of action she was going to take was ok, she asked me what I thought. I tried to dodge, honestly I did, cause I KNEW from past experience what would happen. But then I decided, she's an EX, I don't need to dodge, what the hell's gonna happen anyway?

 

So I told her what I thought, I was emotionally available. I listened to what she said, and then responded directly to her question. No, I didn't think she was overreacting, for HER, if it was me yes. I liked the trees, but the city needed to cut them back because they were interfering with new poles they were putting up. They needed to do it because the tree's were in the way.

 

Well, guess where that went. I wasn't thinking correctly. These were living trees! They could have been better about how they trimmed (butchered in her words) them. Couldn't they?, she asked. Again, I responded openly. I told her that yes they could have, but as they are on the tree lawn, and hence city property, they didn't have to.

 

I know I was digging myself deeper but..oh well.

 

So TL;DL. We open up honestly, and get slammed for it. It's a big reason we seem emotionally unavailable at times. We just know better.

[knitwit]

I'm curious: what were your characteristics that you used to screen prospects? I ask because I thought I *was* going into my relationships with my eyes open. My most recent ex, for example, seemed like such, such a nice guy at first. And then he stopped being aggressive in his pursuit of me, which I remember finding confusing, and then he started up these antagonistic behaviors about which I have written so many threads here. But I was blinded by that initial nice guy, that still showed itself through all the white noise. I don't feel like I can trust myself anymore to know what characteristics would truly make a reliable "screen"

 

I will make another post for this. I would like to say that I got my head on straight and then started dating, but it didn't work out that way. Rather, I started to put things together ("together" being a relative term, mind you) only as I dated, had my heart broken, broke a heart or two, continued therapy, etc.

 

In the meantime, I wanted to put down a poem that tremendously helped me, as I started to get a real sense of Self.

 

In my mind, the greatest gift therapy gave me was the ability to love and appreciate myself, and thereby truly love and appreciate others. I found this with my therapist in conjunction with real-life heartbreak.

 

In your post you said you felt lost, which I think it is pretty normal after a hard break-up. I had one really hard heart-break while I was in therapy, and I would go back to this poem again and again.

 

The poem is called Love After Love by Derek Walcott:

 

The time will come

when, with elation

you will greet yourself arriving

at your own door, in your own mirror

and each will smile at the other's welcome,

 

and say, sit here. Eat.

You will love again the stranger who was your self.

Give wine. Give bread. Give back your heart

to itself, to the stranger who has loved you

 

all your life, whom you ignored

for another, who knows you by heart.

Take down the love letters from the bookshelf,

 

the photographs, the desperate notes,

peel your own image from the mirror.

Sit. Feast on your life.

Derek Walcott

Edited September 20, 2013 by knitwit

[Jim305]

I think "emotionally unavailable" men often appear to be very strong. And women are attracted to strong men. An emotionally unavailable guy feels and acts very confident, which is also attractive to women. This guy doesn't worry about small things, suppresses fear or doesn't dwell on it, so he has the sheer confidence and capability to pursue a lot of women and not worry about rejection. Among all men, these guys pursue women most aggressively, and thus these are the guys women are most likely to encounter. He "comes on" strong, and she sees that as strength, and she's attracted to it. The catch is that those very strengths - the insensitivity to all the little rejections that women might send - also make him insensitive in general. Perhaps this means the men best equipped to get women, to capture their attention, are also the men who are least sensitive and emotionally open. Men who've had a lot of success with women, men who are very skilled at striking their interest, men who know they can easily catch a woman's attention - these men don't need to take any one woman too seriously; if she gets too demanding emotionally, he'll run because he can - he always has a port to land in. The most sensitive, caring men are often not the ones women are most attracted to in the first place. She likes the wild beast, but then she's all disappointed when she can't calm him down and domesticate him. But that's the fantasy, isn't it? To rope the stallion, the leader of the herd, and then make him submit. The leader of the herd, however, isn't given to submission - he make everyone else submit. You're not the only mare who's noticed him. All the other mares have seen him also, and they want him, too. And he knows this. You might be able to tame him but...

 

A memory from old collage days. A guy goes out with a bunch of his buddies, and among them there's one particular guy. This particular guy has absolutely no fear of women. He's not necessarily great looking, but he might be. He's not necessarily brilliant, but he's smarter than most. He's fun. He's outgoing. He's not afraid of anything. He's got a reputation of being a bit rude and crass at times. But boy, can he smile. He's got a bunch of secrets that his pals guard for him. He's the alpha male. And, by the way, he's a complete and total jerk. And he gets all the hottest women on campus. Each new girl sees him coming. Maybe she knows better, maybe not. She hears a little voice from the back of her mind saying "careful!" but she pushes that voice aside. She tells herself he'll see it's different with her, that she's worth leaving the scene and settling down with. Then things play out as nature intended.

[Zapbasket]

Emotionally constipated men is what I like to refer to them as.

Elf

They can't commit to staying and can't commit to leaving.

 

They are just so back asswards, it's insane. It makes you go crazy trying to understand them. I've read EVERY single article about these types and my ex fit most of the descriptions. He even told me has mother issues and that he doesn't trust women that easily. He is scared of getting hurt. They act like tough guys, but deep down they are weak. Back and forth. Up and down. Doesn't know what he wants. But misses you.

 

The thing about these type of men, that I've learned the hard way, is that they don't change.

 

You have two options: you can put up with it or you can walk away.

 

But it seems from your own personal history of men line ups, that you tend to pick these type of men. You need to look deep within yourself and ask yourself why you pick them. Are you emotionally unavailable?

 

I Have AlwaysConsidered Myself An Open Person But Perhaps, Given The Men IStick With, There Is Some Way In Which I Am Emotionally Unavailable. But How Do You Discern That Within Yourself? What Traits Point To That? I Know What It's Like To Date It, But Not To Be It.

Your Description Fits My Ex Perfectly, By The Way.

 

Knitwit, I Will Respond To Your Wonderful Posts When I Am Back At My Computer. I AmAway Camping Until Sunday.