This is why I will never understand the female gender.. :-\

July 29, 2013

OP, just whip it out sometime. Try it. She may like it. If youre lucky, shell make this face.

July 30, 2013

OP,

Any hope of this becoming more than mere friendship ended with that conversation in April.

I hope you've learned the following from this experience as far as potential future dating opportunities are concerned: if you are interested in a woman romantically...i.e. not "just friends", communicate that intent clearly and do it early (preferably in a way that isn't creepy and isn't overly forward). Do not beat around the bush, but at the same time let some things flow naturally. Wishy-washiness is what doormats and orbiters do. Confident people are more clear about what they want and they have initiative.

Ambiguity ==> bad.

July 30, 2013

When women specifically say they want to hang out as friends, believe them. Because that's what they mean. She threw that out there really early. From that point on, there's no way for you to initiate a discussion about any escalation. There are only two ways to escalate -- either a) you have to sack up and make a physical move in the natural flow of the outing or b) you act so uninterested in anything else (while not being a shoulder to cry on) that you get her to be the aggressor.

July 30, 2013

Women aren't that hard to understand. You just have to stop applying logic as you understand it.

She either has friend-zoned you, or you are far down on her list.

Basically, it's almost always to a man's detriment to devote much time, emotion or attention to a woman who isn't reciprocating his interest. He either ends up pining away and depressed or getting taken for a ride financially or emotionally (probably not sexually.)

Here's a question - why do you care that this one girl isn't showing interest? Line up some other prospects and devote your attention there. Either this girl will compete or won't. Either way you'll be better off.

July 30, 2013

Your problem is you are too "Nice" and you are too concerned / always wondering / thinking of what is going on in the woman's head and trying to be / react / respond accordingly.

You need to get in touch with your inner Neanderthal / Cave Man and become more aggressive, assertive and go for what you want without asking for permission, waiting for a green light or her telling you it's okay.

Learn to be a man, get comfortable in skin, stop taking surveys and getting approval from everyone else, don't be afraid to upset / piss off a woman or say no to her, have a purpose, etc.

How can you go and do all of that stuff you listed above and NEVER attempted to flirt, kiss her or more?
!
Stop buying into the whole pussification of man thing and go watch some Clint Eastwood, John Wayne, Steve McQueen or James Bond movies.

Believe it or not, they don't want you to always agree with them, they want you to say no, they want to get pissed off / upset with you, they want you to put them in their place when it's needed, they don't want you to move your boundaries even when they test them, etc.

Sure, your gf / wife wants followers, jewlery, hold the door open for them, etc. but they also want you too knock all the stuff off the table, throw her on top of, hold her down / manhandle her, yank her panties to the side, spit on it and screw her like a whore.

What a crock of s@#t! Nice guy/bad boy, pussification of man, etc. all these labels are complete bs. Be yourself and if that's not good enough to hell with the person that says/believes it isn't. Movies are fiction. The human race is not descended of neanderthal man. Neanderthal man was an offshoot of man's evolutionary process. They failed to evolve and went extinct. Do not deride the op because he chooses to be a civilized human being instead of an uncivilized, knuckle scraping, boor.

July 30, 2013

What a crock of s@#t! Nice guy/bad boy, pussification of man, etc. all these labels are complete bs. Be yourself and if that's not good enough to hell with the person that says/believes it isn't. Movies are fiction. The human race is not descended of neanderthal man. Neanderthal man was an offshoot of man's evolutionary process. They failed to evolve and went extinct. Do not deride the op because he chooses to be a civilized human being instead of an uncivilized, knuckle scraping, boor.

That people value more what they must earn as opposed to are given is not uncivilized, but a fact of human nature. What I think you and some others forget is that many men are given awful advice about how to interact with women from even well-meaning sources, and "be yourself" is some of the worst of that advice. What if when learning to play an instrument, the teacher said "be yourself" as opposed to "CHANGE yourself?" we'd consider "Chopsticks" the apex of piano playing.

"Being ourselves" is a shoddy, mediocre option for human potential. If people followed that historically, we would be still living in caves. Thank goodness they didn't. Most every human activity worth pursuing requires learning, experience and effort to master, dating and interpersonal relationships no different.

July 30, 2013

That people value more what they must earn as opposed to are given is not uncivilized, but a fact of human nature. What I think you and some others forget is that many men are given awful advice about how to interact with women from even well-meaning sources, and "be yourself" is some of the worst of that advice. What if when learning to play an instrument, the teacher said "be yourself" as opposed to "CHANGE yourself?" we'd consider "Chopsticks" the apex of piano playing.

"Being ourselves" is a shoddy, mediocre option for human potential. If people followed that historically, we would be still living in caves. Thank goodness they didn't. Most every human activity worth pursuing requires learning, experience and effort to master, dating and interpersonal relationships no different.

I disagree. Learning new things does mean not you have to change the person you are. I am learning to be an excellent photographer and sometime soon I plan to take guitar lessons. Neither of those things require changing the person I am. To change the person I am would be to put on a false front for the world to see. Sorry but I value myself and I am completely comfortable with the person I am.

July 30, 2013

I disagree. Learning new things does mean not you have to change the person you are. I am learning to be an excellent photographer and sometime soon I plan to take guitar lessons. Neither of those things require changing the person I am. To change the person I am would be to put on a false front for the world to see. Sorry but I value myself and I am completely comfortable with the person I am.

Right, your special and different...if I was you, I'd look at how many women have disagreed with skid marks post....

0. Something might be up with that...women don't give a **** about being a photographer or a guitar player. Obviously the person you are is getting all the women

July 30, 2013

Right, your special and different...if I was you, I'd look at how many women have disagreed with skid marks post....

0. Something might be up with that...women don't give a **** about being a photographer or a guitar player. Obviously the person you are is getting all the women

I do photography and plan to take guitar lessons because I enjoy those things. Whether or not women give a **** about them is irrelevant to me. As I said I am comfortable with the person I am. If a woman finds me attractive great if not oh well, that's life. Just because women haven't disagreed with skid mark's post does not mean they agree with it. Be yourself simply means to be the best self you can be. To try to be anyone other than the person you are is a fools errand.

Edited July 30, 2013 by jma500

July 30, 2013

I do photography and plan to take guitar lessons because I enjoy those things. Whether or not women give a **** about them is irrelevant to me. As I said I am comfortable with the person I am. If a woman finds me attractive great if not oh well, that's life. Just because women haven't disagreed with skid mark's post does not mean they agree with it. Be yourself simply means to be the best self you can be. To try to be anyone other than the person you are is a fools errand.

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/transitioning/search/400674-struggle-really-worth

I wouldnt want to be this guy... "be yourself" is a cop out and an excuse for being a loser and lying to yourself about it

July 30, 2013

WTF!?!?! Send flowers and apologize to a chick who doesn't like you?!?!?!?!?!

Do the EXACT opposite of what this person said.

The whole pussification of man thing is out of control!

WTH? Are you five and in the playground????? Girls hate that and learn that bad behaviour is good and women look at those types of men as douches! Grow up!

Back to the original post....

True, sending a girl flowers is a bit over the top if you're not romantically involved but based on the tone of what you've written, you're both young? Women need male friends, guys that accept them and with whom they can drop their self-consciousness. The fact that she started showing up at your gym... What did she do there? Stand around while you did your workout and talk or do some of her own?

Sometimes, a girl freaks out by having a guy be so upfront (because of the aforementioned douchey behaviour that is said as "normal") so you may have shocked her and she really wasn't capable of dealing with the information.

If you were friends, it's never too late to set those wheels turning again... A simple "how's it going" text should give you a gauge of where she's at... Otherwise just be friends with girls... There's benefits there too, especially if you don't have sisters. But just to be safe, a previous poster made a good point, flirting and longer hugs (for example) are an indication to a girl that you like her more than the friends you are... But patience is a key there.

July 30, 2013

You guys are going back and forth over what strategies are most effective to get this woman interested in the OP, send her flowers, get physical, etc. etc etc ...when she basically said up front that she isn't interested in him romantically.

And then there's all this sturm und drang over whether her telling him she is interested as a friend is a blind for this or that, or her leading him on, and this and that about why she would actually call him to hang out or whatever when she said she just wants to be friends (although that's what friends do)....makes my head hurt, you guys are overthinking this so much.

A simpler and far more logical way to go would be to accept that she's not interested, never was, and point-blank told him so. Then accept her friendship (or not, if you never really meant to be friends - in which case, OP, you were the one misleading her) and simply find someone else to focus your romantic attention on.

I'm going to repost this, because it's still true IMO.

What is not to get? She never showed any interest in you more than being a friend. She was your friend, of course she enjoyed talking to you and spending time with you. Why have a friend if you don't feel that way? Is it that you are confused as to why she isn't interested in you as more than a friend or what?

July 30, 2013

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/transitioning/search/400674-struggle-really-worth

I wouldnt want to be this guy... "be yourself" is a cop out and an excuse for being a loser and lying to yourself about it

Spare me your infantile attempt to insult me. As for my thread I was at a low ebb that day. I have since rectified that. I am far from being a loser nor do I use cop outs or lie to myself. The only true loser is the one who labels others as such just to feel superior. Guys like you who post on here bragging about how great you are with women I would wager in real life you are anything but.

July 30, 2013

You guys are going back and forth over what strategies are most effective to get this woman interested in the OP, send her flowers, get physical, etc. etc etc ...when she basically said up front that she isn't interested in him romantically.

Meh. He should just get her drunk and take advantage of her. That's what the dbags do.

She'll either cry "rape" and be trashed further in court as a drunken sl*t, or she'll suddenly now want to try a relationship...in which case you have her, or you drop her and look for someone hotter.

Just be sure to wear a condom...so she can't prove anything! #teamScumbag

I'm kidding of course. I more agree with this:

A simpler and far more logical way to go would be to accept that she's not interested, never was, and point-blank told him so. Then accept her friendship (or not, if you never really meant to be friends - in which case, OP, you were the one misleading her) and simply find someone else to focus your romantic attention on.

July 30, 2013

I think some of you are misconstruing what I am trying to say....

First;

I judge people by actions, no words. Her actions / behavior changed after I told her that I was interested in her more than just a friend.

1) She showed up to the gym I work at, at odd times I had never seen her before. We're talking about 6am / 7am.

2) She would text at odd hours during the day. Real early, or real late. The texts didn't have any substance behind them. Just friendly texts.

3) To those who say "This is what friends do". Well... no. I don't have any friends that turn into 'mini-stalkers' in a blink of an eye.

4) Her level of communication went up. She would stick around at the gym just to talk.

5) When I mentioned other girls that I knew, you could see she would get slightly aggravated. For example; We were discussing one time about a location of a store. I said I could "Text one of my friends as to where it is, she would know." She kinda got a little peeved and said "No, you don't have to do that."

I chalked it up as another bit of competition from her.

Furthermore;

I am not looking to "Get her back". The ship has sailed.

I am trying to learn from the experience as to what to do next time.

July 30, 2013

Don't accept friendship from someone you want a fckship.

At the time... I didn't want a 'fkcship'.

It changed over time. Either that, or I wasn't being truthful to myself.

July 30, 2013

I think she's been consistent. She said she just wants to be friends and never said anything different. You're the one who changed and decided you wanted more. Asking you to go hiking is a friend thing, texting you and hanging out at the gym waiting for you is hardly romantic, it's just a friend being a little too much of a nuisance. It's all in your head.

July 30, 2013

I think she's been consistent. She said she just wants to be friends and never said anything different. You're the one who changed and decided you wanted more. Asking you to go hiking is a friend thing, texting you and hanging out at the gym waiting for you is hardly romantic, it's just a friend being a little too much of a nuisance. It's all in your head.

Consistency changed in May.

July 30, 2013

I think some of you are misconstruing what I am trying to say....

First;

I judge people by actions, no words. Her actions / behavior changed after I told her that I was interested in her more than just a friend.

1) She showed up to the gym I work at, at odd times I had never seen her before. We're talking about 6am / 7am.

2) She would text at odd hours during the day. Real early, or real late. The texts didn't have any substance behind them. Just friendly texts.

3) To those who say "This is what friends do". Well... no. I don't have any friends that turn into 'mini-stalkers' in a blink of an eye.

4) Her level of communication went up. She would stick around at the gym just to talk.

5) When I mentioned other girls that I knew, you could see she would get slightly aggravated. For example; We were discussing one time about a location of a store. I said I could "Text one of my friends as to where it is, she would know." She kinda got a little peeved and said "No, you don't have to do that."

I chalked it up as another bit of competition from her.

Furthermore;

I am not looking to "Get her back". The ship has sailed.

I am trying to learn from the experience as to what to do next time.

Dude, you are reading way too much into all of this. Her feelings didn't change. Just because she was "competing" for you doesn't mean she wanted you romantically -- she just might have just wanted your attention. Stop overanalyzing everything.

If you want to avoid this situation in the future, here's what you do, besides the obvious of making your intentions known ASAP.

a) When she texts at odd hours, don't text her back right away. You were overly available and not a challenge. Every time you'd answer a text at 7 a.m., you just proved that you were in her back pocket. Text at the hours you normally text.

b) Make a move. If you are feeling some chemistry, go for it. What's the worst that can happen? She rejects you and it's either a) weird for a little bit then goes back to normal or b) you realize your wishes are incompatible quicker and you move on quicker. And even if she rejects you initially, if you play your reaction right she'll wonder in the back of her head if she should have just let you do your thing.

c) If you are in the "friend zone", then do absolutely nothing at all to indicate you have any romantic interest. Treat her as you would treat your guy friends. But also don't be an emotional tampon. Don't let her dump her feelings on you and don't let her talk about other guys with you. If you treat her like that, she might wonder why you aren't trying to make a move.

July 30, 2013

I disagree. Learning new things does mean not you have to change the person you are.

Yes, as a matter of fact, it does. Human beings and personalities are not static, this is a near truism, and the "be yourself" advice to relatively inexperienced daters, especially male daters who tend to get lots of lousy input from the well-meaning, is terrible advice. Every day of your life you are not "changing who you are" and how you understand the world in some respect, be it dating, or anything other human endeavor, is a wasted day of precious time.

Learning what works with women an applying it is neither insincerity, deception, or any other bad qualifier.

Hey Tiger Woods, just "be yourself," that ball will get in the hole. When faced with opportunities to cheat on your wife, just "be yourself," and everything will work out.

July 30, 2013

Yes, as a matter of fact, it does. Human beings and personalities are not static, this is a near truism, and the "be yourself" advice to relatively inexperienced daters, especially male daters who tend to get lots of lousy input from the well-meaning, is terrible advice. Every day of your life you are not "changing who you are" and how you understand the world in some respect, be it dating, or anything other human endeavor, is a wasted day of precious time.

Learning what works with women an applying it is neither insincerity, deception, or any other bad qualifier.

Hey Tiger Woods, just "be yourself," that ball will get in the hole. When faced with opportunities to cheat on your wife, just "be yourself," and everything will work out.

"Be yourself", does not mean "don't strive for improvement."

Be yourself means don't pretend to be something you are not, don't rely on tricks, lies or lines to get what you want.

In terms of relationships, it means letting the other person get to know the person you really are, and not some sort of facade put up to impress.

July 30, 2013

Yes, as a matter of fact, it does. Human beings and personalities are not static, this is a near truism, and the "be yourself" advice to relatively inexperienced daters, especially male daters who tend to get lots of lousy input from the well-meaning, is terrible advice. Every day of your life you are not "changing who you are" and how you understand the world in some respect, be it dating, or anything other human endeavor, is a wasted day of precious time.

Learning what works with women an applying it is neither insincerity, deception, or any other bad qualifier.

Hey Tiger Woods, just "be yourself," that ball will get in the hole. When faced with opportunities to cheat on your wife, just "be yourself," and everything will work out.

While I agree that you learn new things every day and that generally improves the person involved it does not alter who that person is. Btw tiger woods is poor example and actually makes my point. He is sleeping with Lindsay Vonn and his past is already forgotten. He IS being who he is.

July 30, 2013

Be yourself means don't pretend to be something you are not, don't rely on tricks, lies or lines to get what you want.

Yup because doing it the "right" way by your standards is a 180 degree opposite of my standards.

I dont have to lie, rely on tricks or be something Im not or to be successful in dating. I understand how the "GAME" (interaction between 2 people) is played and I play it. I dont create my own rules of what I think is right (morally). The funny thing is, women LOVE IT! They eat it up... why do you think pickup artists are so successful and you are here posting on an internet forum?

You learn the rules to the game, your practice and you become successful. Or you don't you post here for the next 20 years of your life whining and bitching how *******s bang all the women and you want a relationship and cant even find a 300 pound woman thats used up by 200+ men to settle down with you

July 30, 2013

"Be yourself", does not mean "don't strive for improvement."

Be yourself means don't pretend to be something you are not, don't rely on tricks, lies or lines to get what you want.

In terms of relationships, it means letting the other person get to know the person you really are, and not some sort of facade put up to impress.

This is exactly my point.

July 30, 2013

Yup because doing it the "right" way by your standards is a 180 degree opposite of my standards.

I dont have to lie, rely on tricks or be something Im not or to be successful in dating. I understand how the "GAME" (interaction between 2 people) is played and I play it. I dont create my own rules of what I think is right (morally). The funny thing is, women LOVE IT! They eat it up... why do you think pickup artists are so successful and you are here posting on an internet forum?

You learn the rules to the game, your practice and you become successful. Or you don't you post here for the next 20 years of your life whining and bitching how *******s bang all the women and you want a relationship and cant even find a 300 pound woman thats used up by 200+ men to settle down with you

1: two adults can and do meet without game. Game is for children.

2: you may have missed this but you consistently post on this forum as well.

3: neither myself nor letsbeotherpeople were bitching nor whining about anything.

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This is why I will never understand the female gender.. :-\

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