Are we headed for Reconciliation or Divorce?

[Snowflower]

I would make some plans pronto--with friends, your mom, sister, somebody and be gone all pretty much all weekend.

 

When he asks you what you're doing or whatever, just be vague and polite and brief. Say, "Sorry, I can't go to the movies this weekend. I have other plans." or, "Oh, I'm just hanging out with some friends. I'll see you later."

 

Always be polite and calm. Even if you have to scream as you drive away!

[Mrs.S.]

It's past the time he would usually text me from work to say hi. I know it isn't productive, but all I can think about is that when he's there I'm the furthest thing from his mind and he's completely wrapped up in seeing her, talking to her and emailing with her. While I sit here in misery. I don't know if I have the strength to endure this for a week or more. I feel like he's getting carte blanche to run around and do whatever he wants, knowing I'm at home (figuratively, not always literally), maintaining that part of his life. All he has to do is throw me a few bones once in a while.

 

I wish that I knew for sure that this girl is a meaningless distraction for him and just a "tool" for him to use right now. And that he's not at work every day becoming more and more convinced that he has real feelings for her and deciding to escalate things even more. I wish I knew whether he thinks about her the whole time he's at home, anticipating his next connection with her. This is driving me crazy. Please help.

Edited June 21, 2013 by Mrs.S.

[2sunny]

The thing is - he IS interested in her enough to not consider how much his decision is hurting you. He point blank stated he's NOT cutting her off for your feelings. That's not what a kind and loving marriage looks like!!!

 

A kind and loving M means he WOULD say and DO "honey, I'm willing to do ANYTHING that makes YOU happy" - but he's not!

 

And that alone means he's not INVESTED in the M - he's MORE invested in HER since he won't stop the betrayal that he KNOWS is hurting you!

 

That makes him a complete douche!

 

I'd pack his bag and leave it on the doorstep - and when he decided to finally come home I'd say "since I'm no longer YOUR priority, get out now!!!"

 

At some point - honoring self is important - since he's not honoring you...stop ALLOWING him to treat you as his second choice! He wants her THAT bad? throw him to her!

 

He acts like he's single - well, make it his reality! Then call all family and expose his truth.

[imtooconfused]

Turning this around...

 

A kind and loving M means [she] WOULD say and DO "honey, I'm willing to do ANYTHING that makes YOU happy".

 

And H says "Please don't make me completely abandon the friendship of someone who has been an important part of my life," but she's not willing to go that far.

 

I have said before on other threads, if my partner had a limit that prevented me from having friends of the opposite sex, I would respect her limit, but at the same time I would not consider us to be right for each other. Yes, I would pack my bags if I were give that kind of ultimatum.

[2sunny]

Turning this around...

 

 

 

And H says "Please don't make me completely abandon the friendship of someone who has been an important part of my life," but she's not willing to go that far.

 

I have said before on other threads, if my partner had a limit that prevented me from having friends of the opposite sex, I would respect her limit, but at the same time I would not consider us to be right for each other. Yes, I would pack my bags if I were give that kind of ultimatum.

 

THIS particular friendship is a gal her H is thinking of banging!

 

She's his love interest. That's not just his "friend" and you must know that.

[imtooconfused]

THIS particular friendship is a gal her H is thinking of banging!

 

She's his love interest. That's not just his "friend" and you must know that.

 

If you persist along these lines, you will convince the OP of this untruth and it will be a self-fulfilling prophesy. Congratulations, you will have forced the H's hand and he will run to the arms of his friend because his wife is completely mistrusting of him.

 

How many times does this guy have to say he loves his wife, that he wants to stay in the marriage, begging her for her support and that this woman means nothing to him before you guys believe him?

[2sunny]

If you persist along these lines, you will convince the OP of this untruth and it will be a self-fulfilling prophesy. Congratulations, you will have forced the H's hand and he will run to the arms of his friend because his wife is completely mistrusting of him.

 

How many times does this guy have to say he loves his wife, that he wants to stay in the marriage, begging her for her support and that this woman means nothing to him before you guys believe him?

 

She doesn't trust him because he's been lying about this gal for a year!

 

It has nothing to do with her "forcing a hand" - the H has made it clear he's got feelings and thoughts of this OW.

 

Besides that he's been mean!

[Mrs.S.]

Not only that, but he has NOT said he wants to stay in the marriage. He's not sure if he does, he's stopped acting like a husband to me, he says he doesn't care how I feel, his wish is for me to leave him alone, he thinks all I care about is winning, he has invalidated every precious aspect of our life and our love together AND he's been lying to me for months about this girl for whom he has feelings and really regrets not meeting her before he met me. And he refuses to stop talking to her, despite my pain and feelings of betrayal.

 

And now he makes no contact with me while he's at work, knowing very well how shaken I am about what is going on and that it all takes place while he's at work. That is NOT love.

[trippi1432]

I actually agree with imtooconfused, demands would just push him to this woman and affirm it in his mind that the OP is being too controlling.

 

Keli - Do you think that this woman is actually returning the "affection" he perceives her to be doing? Something about the way the MC is approaching it makes me think there is more to this and perhaps he is in an EA fog.

 

A very long time ago, I had something similar happen with me with someone at a place we worked at. I never even knew the man's name until his preacher came to my house and accused me of having an affair with him. He worked in the same department as my mother, so I would just say hello to him when I would visit with her. Other than that, there was nothing else except what he built up in his head because he wasn't happy with his marriage.

 

The guy was evidently pretty messed up in the head as he even went as far as to follow me, find out where I lived and broke into my home one night when I was out. When the preacher alerted to me that the guy had been in my home, I check the back door and sure enough, the lock was broken. I reported it to our company and they put him out of work for a while to get some help. His wife knew of some of his infatuation, but I don't think she ever thought that I did anything to cause it. She knew he needed help.

 

People can build up infatuations in their mind and those can become so very real to them, even when it's not being returned. It's scary and even sad. Do you think that this woman is actually returning any of this affection that he thinks she is? Or in the way he feels she is?

[imtooconfused]

This is the point where I got frustrated with the "Stubborn Husband" thread and gave up... When I could see no possible way to break the stalemate, each side saying they would do anything to prevent divorce, yet neither side wanting to make the first move.

[imtooconfused]

Do you think that this woman is actually returning any of this affection that he thinks she is? Or in the way he feels she is?

 

Even I am pretty certain the connection with the OW is mutual and almost definitely rises to the level of an emotional affair. But that does not excuse the fact that the OP is driving her husband away harder than the OW is trying to attract him.

[Mrs.S.]

Thanks for all of your posts this weekend - even the ones that are harsh-but-true. Basically, we fought on and off all weekend. It's gotten to the point where it's exhausting. He won't budge with talking to the girl at work - he said he'd stop on Friday night because it's really not about her, it's about us and giving in to me yet again (according to him). Then on Saturday he was super rude to me, hot and cold, and again it came back to what's going on at work and he said he's not going to stop. Then he password locked his phone and changed his email password because he says that he's afraid I'm going to embarrass him and text or email her. I was furious (I don't even know his password, he's just logged in all the time on every device we have). He said he only emails with her at work about work stuff, but that pissed me off because she has her own supervisor, she doesn't need to ask him all of her "questions." Basically, she knows she can get attention from this married man and she's enjoying it and taking advantage of it. And he loves the attention, too. I told him to show me the emails and he said he deletes all "non-essential" emails, and I said that they couldn't possibly be just about work then, if he deleted them due to being non-essential. Then he started yelling about why don't I get that this isn't about her and that it's about how he feels like I'm just trying to get my way and make him into the bad guy again. He said that he refused to blink first and that maybe if I did, he'd give me "something" whether it was stopping all together or maybe just a little less, which I found completely condescending. I said that if he thinks that I have to EARN my way to him stopping, he's delusional. This was last night. He was provoking me all night and being rude and finally, things escalated so badly (verbally only) that we were just like, "what the hell are we doing?" We finally just went bed and fell asleep hugging each other. Things are at the point where it's doing more harm than good to be together and if doesn't stop, one of us needs to leave. I think we both know that.

 

So this morning he got up and left for work like two hours early. He had said yesterday that he wasn't going to work on anything at home and that he'd just go in early this morning. We didn't really talk, but he he came over and hugged and kissed me and said goodbye and I love you. I just said it back and said be careful driving.

 

I'm not sure what to expect today and tonight. However, I do know that we cannot keep arguing and treating each other like this. We're going to drive each other away for good. Someone said a while back, "Do you want to be right or do you want to save your marriage?" I want to do everything I can and be the best person I can be in order to save my marriage. It's not a guarantee, but I know that I have to show him my best self, even if I know it's not fair that he's using a girl with whom he hurt me very badly against me to make a point. Whether he still has feelings for her or not. I know he's not physically cheating on me at this point, so I have to give this my best shot before I walk away.

Edited June 24, 2013 by Mrs.S.

[Snowflower]

He is most definitely cheating on you. At first I wasn't sure but his subsequent behavior sure seems to indicate this.

 

The hot and cold behavior, blaming you for everything, he is setting you up to fail.

 

Just because he isn't physically cheating (i.e. having sex with her) doesn't make it any less serious.

 

Have you thought about starting a thread in the infidelity section? You might get more advice on that forum regarding dealing with a cheating spouse because honey, that is what you have on your hands.

 

You need to tell him to hit the road.

Edited June 24, 2013 by Snowflower

[Mrs.S.]

I didn't hear from him all day. He just texted me that he hopes I had a good day and that he has to work late on something, hopefully just half an hour. I asked if I should be worried. I know I shouldn't have asked that, but he went to work two hours early this morning, didn't connect with me all day and now he's working late to finish something?? Am I stupid for sitting here at home hoping things might change?

[jf2good]

I don't want to read the entire thread, but one thing stood out as a flag in the original post "I was shocked. I thought our arguments were just arguments. Everything else between us had seemed fine. We were trying to get pregnant and we had vacation plans, etc."

 

I am shocked that people view arguments as normal and part of healthy relationship whereby you wanted to get pregnant and bring children into the mess. No arguments are not just arguments. Those like me who want to avoid conflict resolution through arguments this is a marriage killer. It turns into one side verbally abusing the one who doesn't resolve issues via arguments.

 

Sure for some people this is their normal resolution process, not that it is ever healthy for children, but is the way they are wired. For those who are not wired for conflict resolution through arguments, there will be no real resolution only division and divorce, maybe they will surrender for a while until they can plan an escape.

[2sunny]

I didn't hear from him all day. He just texted me that he hopes I had a good day and that he has to work late on something, hopefully just half an hour. I asked if I should be worried. I know I shouldn't have asked that, but he went to work two hours early this morning, didn't connect with me all day and now he's working late to finish something?? Am I stupid for sitting here at home hoping things might change?

 

Yep!

 

He's still not making you his priority!

 

As long as he's communicating with his OW (yes, she is!) - there's no chance for the M!

 

Why are YOU allowing him to treat you like crap? Stop it!!!

[Mrs.S.]

When he got home last night we talked a little bit about having that big argument on Sunday night. He apologized again and said that he felt bad that it got to that point. I apologized also and we agreed that we don't want to treat each other like that or hurt each other anymore. I said that even if our marriage does end, I don't want this to be the way we ended it or treated each other at the end. He agreed and said it's not how he wants me to feel either. I thought this was a good sign and then he said, "We're still friends, right? There's no reason why we can't live together and be friendly and cordial and respectful, whichever way this goes." Ugh. Punch in the gut again. I asked him that's where he sees this going - as us living cordially until we break things off. He said he didn't know. I asked him if he feels a little better since we diffused the tension that had been building all week and if he feels like he wants this to work now that we've put away some of our anger. He kind of said yes, but still said he doesn't know. I told him that we cannot have this tension and dynamic of provoking each other and escalating into arguments anymore. I said that if we can't stop it, we do need to separate ourselves because it isn't healthy and it's not what we want for each other. He agreed. I reminded him of how I felt about him and the girl at work (sorry, I can't refer to her as the OW or his EA yet) and asked if he could please make a choice that is good for our marriage. I said that if he still wants to be here and this is our rock bottom and he wants us to have any kind of chance together, would he please make a choice that is good for our marriage and stop talking to her so we can both be in this 100%. I asked him if he could give us that chance. He quietly said yes, he'd try. I just don't get it. I don't believe him (partly his fault, partly mine). I still feel like he said that just to get me off his back, which he won't deny.

 

At the counselor's this morning, we talked more about why we're stuck in this dynamic and pattern. She asked him to look at me and tell me honestly why he's where he is right now. She repeated that she does not think this is about the girl at work, but by putting up this wall, he is letting me believe that. He was thoughtful about it and he said that looking back on our marriage and other situations in his life, he feels like he never stood up for himself or did what fulfilled him, which isn't all my fault. He said he sees all of those things as weakness on his part and he can't stand feeling like that anymore. He said he's frustrated with where we are and the going back and forth and the questions and the arguments. He said that he just can't let himself back down right now and that he needs to feel like he's making choices that he wants to make that won't make him feel weak. He said he doesn't blame me, but that he just can't take the wall down and say ok to me right now because he needs to feel like he's back in control of his life.

 

It was very honest and it took him a while to get it out, so I know he wasn't just talking off the top of his head. I completely understand how he feels this way and I don't want him to live like that anymore, whether I agree with how it has manifested and his view of history or not. I told the counselor that I just feel like I'm constantly running into someone's fist. I've tried so many approaches so many times and I just keep getting shut out and knocked back. He's been demonizing me and discounting our bond with each other in order to justify his selfish behavior (not his feelings, but his behavior). I told her it's to the point where I feel worthless to him and to this marriage. Adding the girl at work, whose friendship he's now nurturing more than he is our friendship, I feel like absolutely nothing to him. I told her that this is not ok with me either. I would like to find a way for us both to feel valuable and in control and like we're in our marriage because we both choose to be. I want to feel like I'm his priority and I know he wants to feel like he's mine. But if he's not willing to meet me halfway, what do I do?

 

That's where I am right now. I talked about how all throughout our relationship, he's always been the one who pursued me. I never pursued him or asked him any questions or pushed him towards anything, including me. I know that we both need to feel that way again, but how do I help us get there if he's not willing?

 

Is the answer to really back off - for real this time - and trust that this work friendship is just a "choice" he feels he needs to have right now and let him "decide" to come back to me and our marriage? The counselor said that she believes that he does want to be in this still and that he does still feel a very strong connection with me or else at this point, we would have separated by now. Is he really just needing to feel like all of this is his choice? Is it really that simple? Proof from this morning would say that. But it's a very scary thing to turn the other way while there's still a girl in the picture and he's still pulling away from me. It seems the opposite of what we should be doing in this situation.

 

Does this make sense?

Edited June 25, 2013 by Mrs.S.

[imtooconfused]

The patient lifts his hand above his head and says, "Doctor, it hurts every time I go like this."

"Well, don't go like that," the doctor says.

 

I told the counselor that I just feel like I'm constantly running into someone's fist. I've tried so many approaches so many times and I just keep getting shut out and knocked back.

 

Stop running in that direction and you won't get knocked back by the immoveable fist.

 

He was thoughtful about it and he said that looking back on our marriage and other situations in his life, he feels like he never stood up for himself or did what fulfilled him, which isn't all my fault. He said he sees all of those things as weakness on his part and he can't stand feeling like that anymore.

 

Your husband feels like he has not had control of his life and has chosen now to assert himself. The issue most important to him is that he feels like he needs a supportive friend in his life and he will stand this particular piece of ground if it takes everything he has. You will do nothing but drive him away if you continue to make the "girl at work" the focus of your problems. But I believe there is hope...

 

As I just said, the issue most important to your husband is not the need for some other woman, it's the need for a supportive friend. You have the power to reverse things by being the supportive friend that he needs.

 

I am sorry to break this to you but when he says that he doesn't feel like he is in control of his life, that can only mean that he feels that you are controlling his life. Whether that is factual or not, this is how he feels. By putting up a brick wall around the "girl at work" for him, you are only reinforcing his perception of you. Instinctively he will run away from the controlling influence and run to the supportive influence. I know it will absolutely kill you, but please stop being the controlling influence that he is rejecting and you can start by not obsessing over the "girl at work."

 

I know that you can be a better friend to your husband than she is, and I know that he will see that very clearly. When he does, he will begin to reject her in favor of you. I feel this very strongly based on what you have written here. But it will take every ounce of effort on your part to put aside the hurt and anger you feel to reach the point where you can feel comfortable seeing your husband as a friend, but that is the only way out.

[2sunny]

If YOU are supposed to give up YOUR expectations of him being a loving, supportive man of trust, honor and your best friend/supporter - then he's asking you to give up your idea of what M is to you.

 

And if that's what he's asking you to do - you don't have the M you had in mind.

 

Do you need to give up YOUR expectations in order to stay married?

 

Things look out of balance.

[Mrs.S.]

imtooconfused and 2sunny, I agree with both of you. I see both of your points and both of your points are so right. I don't know what to do.

 

Last night he came home and he initiated the conversation. He told me that hearing what the counselor was saying about the way he is handling things was very hard for him and made him angry for a while, but he said that he realized that she was right. He said really thinking about his feelings and trying to convey them to someone else is something he has never had to do before, not about anything, and at times it makes him anxious and uncomfortable and wanting to reject any situation that forces him to do it. He apologized to me sincerely for how he's been treating me and for hurting me and for deflecting all of his anger and frustration, having to do with me or not, onto me because it's been like a relief to him to let it all go. He said it was wrong and he's very unhappy with himself that he's been hurting me. He said that he appreciates all of my patience and attempting to understand him and be there for him. He said that he really doesn't want to continue treating me this way and that he loves me very much.

 

I thanked him for opening up to me. I told him that I want him to regain his feeling of independence, strength and decision-making. I said that I understand and support that. I told him that I also cannot be in a marriage in which the decisions being made are hurtful to me and harmful to our marriage. I said that I'm not invalidating his feelings or his needs, but my bottom line is that this relationship with this girl is a decision that he made months ago that it was ok to be something that hurt me and poisoned our marriage. Unfortunately, it can never be anything safe and platonic. I told him that if this is the only thing that will make him feel ok about himself, I will accept that, but that we will need to step away from our marriage because it's not a loving marriage if he is willing to make choices that put it in danger.

 

He said that he doesn't know if he can stop talking to her. He said that he was willing to "put on the brakes" for now until he figures out why he needs it so much. I asked him if maybe he's so confused about it because he really does have feelings for her, but he doesn't want that to be the reason. And maybe that's why he's having a hard time reasoning it out in his head. He said he really doesn't think that's the case. He said they agreed that they needed to stop the personal stuff because there was no reason for it, but that he does find it exciting and he does look forward to talking to her. I told him that this is an emotional attachment to her, it's not just him taking a stand. It's probably a mixture of both, but this can only be harmful to me and to our marriage. I said that he's playing with fire and all it's going to take is one excuse for things to escalate again. They're constantly tempting themselves to cross the line again. And he can't close the door on that because he still needs to know that there's an opportunity, even if he knows he'll never take it.

 

He disagreed and said that he has chosen to make this his "hill to die on" and if he changes his mind, he knows he'll look back and see it as another time that he was weak and gave into me and he'll feel more bitterness and resentment and he doesn't want that to happen. I said that I told him that I would accept that and that if this needs to be his hill to die on, just know that I'm dying on it, too. I said that he should pack a bag in the morning and if this truly is something he needs, we are not truly living as husband and wife. I asked him not to come home if he chooses to continue this relationship and I asked him to honor that request for me. I can't keep hurting like this either.

 

For the rest of the night he was super sweet and complimented me and asked me to spend time with him that night. I asked him to sleep in the guest room and he told me that he would like to sleep in our bed with me. This morning he texted me when I got to work and said that he feels completely lost and confused. He said that he really thinks about this, he feels like he's going to look back and be angry about it. He said this feels, to him, that this is simply a repeat of other instances and he knows that's going to lead him to more resentment. He said he tries to understand this from both sides, but he just can't.

 

I replied and said that I'm sorry he feels like this. I said just remember, I love you and I'm on your side. I want you to be happy and to be ok.

 

We talked for a minute after that and he was leaving for work. I reiterated that I want what's best for him, but I can't compromise on the hurt that the whole situation with this girl has already caused me and the fact that he needs to make decisions that hurt me and our marriage. That is my bottom line. I want whatever he wants, but I'm not going to be in a marriage that dishonors our promise of loyalty, devotion and honesty. That being said, I do love him and stand behind him in his need to find himself and feel ok about himself.

 

Does this sound like a reasonable approach that is fair and honest for both of us? Or do you think I'm just being a selfish hardheaded control freak again?

 

Also - he has not committed to working on our marriage whole heartedly either. He's still talking in terms of "whatever happens with us" and "whether we're together for the next 60 years or not" and "however this ends." It might be another factor to consider if he was also committing to our marriage, but he hasn't.

[Snowflower]

He said that he doesn't know if he can stop talking to her. He said that he was willing to "put on the brakes" for now until he figures out why he needs it so much. I asked him if maybe he's so confused about it because he really does have feelings for her, but he doesn't want that to be the reason. And maybe that's why he's having a hard time reasoning it out in his head. He said he really doesn't think that's the case. He said they agreed that they needed to stop the personal stuff because there was no reason for it, but that he does find it exciting and he does look forward to talking to her.

 

Then he has made his decision. He is going to continue to talk to her at your expense.

 

There is not much you can say to him beyond what you have. Mrs S, you have made this your hill to die on and wisely so. You do not want to be in a marriage where your husband openly engages in flirtatious/over-friendly/pick a tterm exchanges with another woman when you have asked him not to. You feel threatened and disregarded as you should.

He disagreed and said that he has chosen to make this his "hill to die on" and if he changes his mind, he knows he'll look back and see it as another time that he was weak and gave into me and he'll feel more bitterness and resentment and he doesn't want that to happen. I said that I told him that I would accept that and that if this needs to be his hill to die on, just know that I'm dying on it, too. I said that he should pack a bag in the morning and if this truly is something he needs, we are not truly living as husband and wife. I asked him not to come home if he chooses to continue this relationship and I asked him to honor that request for me. I can't keep hurting like this either.

 

Well then if he is going to see you as "controlling" for not allowing him to pursue this friendship of his that is a threat to your marriage, then that is his choice.

 

You're doing well Mrs. S. You are giving HIM the choices to proceed as he sees fit. If he wants to continue his friendship with the girl at the office that is his right and his choice. You aren't trying to control him. What you are trying to control is yourself and what you will and will not live with.

 

Good job!

 

 

I replied and said that I'm sorry he feels like this. I said just remember, I love you and I'm on your side. I want you to be happy and to be ok.

 

We talked for a minute after that and he was leaving for work. I reiterated that I want what's best for him, but I can't compromise on the hurt that the whole situation with this girl has already caused me and the fact that he needs to make decisions that hurt me and our marriage. That is my bottom line. I want whatever he wants, but I'm not going to be in a marriage that dishonors our promise of loyalty, devotion and honesty. That being said, I do love him and stand behind him in his need to find himself and feel ok about himself.

 

Does this sound like a reasonable approach that is fair and honest for both of us? Or do you think I'm just being a selfish hardheaded control freak again?

 

Yes, you did well here. Personally, I think you needed to even be a little more stern with him but you did well.

 

Don't let him think you are being a control freak just because there are things you won't tolerate.

 

Again, like I said above, tell him as sweetly (but sternly too) as you can that you want him to have happiness above all us because you love him. You don't want him to feel "controlled.":rolleyes: If he wants to continue to talk to the office girl then that is completely up to him. You won't stop him and you will respect his choice.

 

On the other hand (and this is the most important part: YOU, mrs. S), if he makes that choice to continue the inappropriate friendship, then you will have choices too. You, just like him, have choices that you get to make.

 

And this next part will hopefully really get to him. After you tell him about him getting what he wants (inappropriate friendship) then here is clincher:

 

Say something like, "Honey, I love you and I want you to be happy. However, I need to be happy too. I'm sorry if I have appeared to be a stubborn control-freak. I don't want any appearance of trying to control you so if you want to continue your friendship with the office girl then please do that. But please know that the friendship is not acceptable to ME so I will be making some changes to have some control of my life.

 

You see honey, this is the best way I can think of for us to compromise in this situation that we have. We will both get what we want. You can have your friendship with that girl and I will get the peace of mind of not having to deal with what is an intolerable situation to me. I will make some new and different choices regarding my future."

 

I think if you tell him something like this, as kindly, rationally (but with a little bit of teeth in it) and then leave him be, you may have a chance. If he doesn't respond the way you like, then you have your answer as well, which is all not an all-together bad thing.

Edited June 26, 2013 by Snowflower

[imtooconfused]

But please know that the friendship is not acceptable to ME so I will be making some changes to have some control of my life.

 

That would be such a shame. But if you must make changes, best to get a lawyer and do it quick, like pulling off a bandage.

[Mrs.S.]

He just texted me about how talking about this is making him mad again. He said that he feels as though I'm doing the same thing I've always done with him in this kind of circumstance and that I just can't see the forrest through the trees, so to speak. He said this isn't about this girl. He knows he did things that he never should have done and that he's sorry for that. But it really isn't about her. He said he doesn't have some fantasy about falling in love with her and living happily ever after. He doesn't know why I can't see that.

 

I texted him a bunch of stuff, probably more than I needed to, but I finally said, maybe, and only maybe, this isn't about the girl for me either. Maybe at the root of it, it's about him ultimately choosing to take what he wants over choosing not to hurt me and to protect our love and our bond above all else.

 

Does this make any sense, especially to you, imtooconfused? Since you seem to be the logical "angel on my shoulder" here, what am I refusing to see, if in fact, what he says and feels is completely true? Regardless, though, isn't it true that he is supplementing our relationship with the excitement, desire and attention he gets from his interactions with her? And how can that be ok?

[Mrs.S.]

I definitely feel at peace with my position on this. I did say that if it's in fact true, that this is about him and not at all about this girl, if there is a way to compromise, I am listening. But I really don't know what that could be.

I wasn't backing down, I was being reasonable. But I honestly don't know what that could be. I asked him this morning to show me all of their emails and maybe I could see for myself that it is completely innocent and he said he'd feel like he needed my approval on everything and that would defeat the purpose. So if he's not even willing to compromise with full disclosure, then there IS something to hide. I asked him to honestly tell me that there's nothing flirty or personal in any email and he didn't answer me.

[imtooconfused]

Does this make any sense, especially to you, imtooconfused? Since you seem to be the logical "angel on my shoulder" here, what am I refusing to see, if in fact, what he says and feels is completely true? Regardless, though, isn't it true that he is supplementing our relationship with the excitement, desire and attention he gets from his interactions with her? And how can that be ok?

 

Please, oh please don't make me out to be the good guy here. I am only looking at the big picture having been in/perhaps being in your husband's shoes.

 

I want you to honestly think about the answer to this next question... When was the last time you sent your husband a flirty text message? Don't tell me. Think about it for yourself. But I suspect the answer is a long time ago, most likely before "you know who" entered the picture.

 

Nothing excuses him turning to someone else for the attention and validation. Nothing excuses the hiding and misinformation. It's wrong, wrong, wrong. And I am not saying you did not show him enough attention, but in words and actions he is saying that the attention and validation that he is getting at home is not enough. I know it's hard given that he refused to break contact with her, and his abandonment of you feels as strong or stronger than the abandonment that he feels.

 

But firstly, neither of you is really abandoning the other. I know you still care about him deeply and I think he cares enough about you enough to keep coming home and keeping the conversation open (others on here will argue with me, but so be it). But it still feels that way one to the other. And secondly, in order to break the impasse, the situation has to de-escalate. I think your husband made a move (admittedly small move) in that direction by admitting that he sees how this affects you and at least is willing to "put the brakes" on the other relationship (also despite the fact that I recognize he has reversed course). As hard as it hurts, you will have to continue the de-escalation by focusing away from the "girl from work." I don't mean to abandon your feelings, but do some more "biting of your tongue," rather than lashing out.

 

Most importantly focus on you and your husband. Can you have one evening where the subject of the "girl from work" never comes up? If your relationship hinges on what's wrong with the other girl it's doomed. If instead it revolves around what's right about you two, there is a good chance.